so people can cheer and defend this action because of what trump supporters have done, fighting fire with fire and all
but there's no way the other side will see it as fire and thus fight back with more fire?
The other side has been fighting with fire since the birth of our nation.
I just really don't give a fuck. I haven't felt more civic pride than when Trump came to town and was greeted with a small riot. "Oh no, they threw a bottle at some Trumpkins!" everyone said. Fuck that. San Jose is about as Latino a city as you're gonna find this far North, and they're gleefully rooting for a candidate that is an existential violent threat to their communities. All y'all judging from the sidelines, when ten years ago I was routinely getting into scraps with skinheads because they didn't like it when the Mexicans showed up to a punk show. Fucking mass deportations and special IDs for religious minorities is a normal part of the national discourse now but you've all gotten your fucking Fruit of the Looms in a bunch because of some minor vandalization. Fuck that.
I don't understand this position at all. If someone is running a racist campaign by saying your community is a bunch of criminals, the very last thing you'd want to do is commit crimes. You only give them more ammunition for their campaign.
In an ideal world I believe the State should have exclusive rights to violence. Unfortunately I live in this world, where the State provides those that brutalize minorities cover, when they aren't busy brutalizing them themselves.
Maybe it's seeing a teen-ager with their guts hanging out because they were brown but I just kind of lost my appetite for turning the other cheek a long time ago.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
So, Bill Clinton is in Greenville today for an event. One of my wife's friends just posted that she saw him downtown eating at the best place to get oysters in town. Also the best mixed drinks.
Wait I thought Bill was vegan. Bill nooo
You thought Bubba Clinton was a vegan?
Bill Clinton was eating vegan for a while, I dunno if he's quit or just backslid, but he was definitely into it for a while. As someone above said, it was health related.
For the record, vandalism and door to door canvassing ARE mutually exclusive. You can't do both at once.
Sure though, in infinite energy, time and money land you can do both.
Effort wasted in ineffectual actions like that is wasted and doesn't in any way help your cause(s).
So, Bill Clinton is in Greenville today for an event. One of my wife's friends just posted that she saw him downtown eating at the best place to get oysters in town. Also the best mixed drinks.
Wait I thought Bill was vegan. Bill nooo
You thought Bubba Clinton was a vegan?
Bill Clinton is supposed to eat healthy and not really partake of dietary pleasures, I think due to doctor's orders
So of course I trust an infamously louche libertine gourmand to restrict himself during the high-pressure belt-loosening grind of a heated campaign
Oysters are generally considered OK in those types of diets.
Even if he's at "the best place to get oysters in town" that doesn't mean he's getting the oysters there.
I just read an open letter that Trump wrote to John Travolta and Kelly Preston after their son died. It's being passed around the press, apparently, but I encountered it on Cracked.com of all places. It's just the most Trumpian thing imaginable, made so very much worse by the fact that it's a condolence letter about a dead kid. I'll drop the wayback machine link to it in the spoiler along with the text. But I'm definitely spoilering this, because it's just gross.
I have always respected people who were loyal and faithful--which brings to mind Kelly Preston. A long time ago, before I was married, I met Kelly Preston at a club and worked like hell to try and pick her up. She was beautiful, personable, and definitely had allure. At the time I had no idea she was married to John Travolta.
In any event, my track record on this subject has always been outstanding, but Kelly wouldn’t give me the time of day. She was very nice, very elegant, but I didn’t have a chance with her, and that was that.
When I later found out she was married to John, I liked and respected her even more. Some people have values that matter to them, and she is one of them. Her loyalty was unwavering and I have always remembered that about her.
Being true to someone is very close to being true to yourself. That’s a valuable attribute in today’s world. I’m sure she was a wonderful mother to Jett and my thoughts are with her and her family after their terrible loss.
Donald J. Trump is Chairman of Trump University.
I lost my son last year, so reading this puts me in a chaotic mental space that defies description. It would be inadequate to say that I'm triggered, or angry, or head-on-fire furious, and I cannot think of a proper word that combines my current outrage with an absolutely towering level of disbelief.
Every time I think he couldn't possibly sink any lower as a human being, HE FUCKING FINDS A WAY TO KEEP DIGGING DEEPER.
I will not be sharing this letter with my wife. Hell hath no fury like a mother who has lost a child. I imagine our collective reaction will not be dissimilar to that of Mr. and Mrs. Khan.
Oh dear... I just got to this point of the conversation. I honestly wish I hadn't read that, I already knew he was vile but this. I'm torn asunder by this because it's another datapoint I should share with my wife's side of the family to ram home the importance of voting, and damn would it be effective. But I can't do it, I can't expose others I love to that awfulness no matter the good intentions. It may be weak of me but I simply can't, those words alone ripped my heart right back open and made the loss of my own son rush right back. It sickens me at the deepest most personal level just as it did when he attacked the Khans. May my wife never see this.
Earlier he tweets that people are really cherry picking to say the race is tightening, then writes an article about how..the race is tightening and how they were totally wrong about a basketball game last night with the same odds
Something he's pointed out himself, political statistics are very different from sports ones. It's played out over longer periods and has tens of millions of points in play - most sports only have a handful of scoring plays in the game, or have scoring so closely tied to the flow of the game that relatively few scoring plays end up being relevant to the outcome. It makes for a more stable system that's actually called boring to predict because of that stability.
Also, sports let you know exactly how much you're behind by at every moment, and you can still change the outcome when points start coming in. Elections give you some estimates and trends, but by the time points actually start coming in, one timezone is already closing the polls (and with it the bulk of the swing states) and your chances of swinging the rest in the waning hours of election day are nil.
Even if they were exactly the same, we play a lot more sports than we elect presidents. There's more basketball games in one week of the regular season than there are presidential elections in a century. Upsets that would be generational surprises in an election would still be a daily thing in sports if not for the higher volatility of the system.
so people can cheer and defend this action because of what trump supporters have done, fighting fire with fire and all
but there's no way the other side will see it as fire and thus fight back with more fire?
The other side has been fighting with fire since the birth of our nation.
I just really don't give a fuck. I haven't felt more civic pride than when Trump came to town and was greeted with a small riot. "Oh no, they threw a bottle at some Trumpkins!" everyone said. Fuck that. San Jose is about as Latino a city as you're gonna find this far North, and they're gleefully rooting for a candidate that is an existential violent threat to their communities. All y'all judging from the sidelines, when ten years ago I was routinely getting into scraps with skinheads because they didn't like it when the Mexicans showed up to a punk show. Fucking mass deportations and special IDs for religious minorities is a normal part of the national discourse now but you've all gotten your fucking Fruit of the Looms in a bunch because of some minor vandalization. Fuck that.
I don't understand this position at all. If someone is running a racist campaign by saying your community is a bunch of criminals, the very last thing you'd want to do is commit crimes. You only give them more ammunition for their campaign.
In an ideal world I believe the State should have exclusive rights to violence. Unfortunately I live in this world, where the State provides those that brutalize minorities cover, when they aren't busy brutalizing them themselves.
Maybe it's seeing a teen-ager with their guts hanging out because they were brown but I just kind of lost my appetite for turning the other cheek a long time ago.
Then don't turn the other cheek. Put that image in front of as many people as you can to generate public outrage; but if you retaliate you will just make the fear mongers statements more believable.
Do you think if Black Lives Matters activists started throwing bricks through police car windows that it would help or hurt their movement?
Well police are still killing black people so the current strategy evidently hasn't been working great, could hardly fault them for trying something new
I think destruction of property is perfectly understandable and given the list of horrible shit that Trump has said and done in this election I'm not going to spend a lot of brainpower on it.
That said, I do think it cedes some of the moral high ground liberals have over Trump and I don't think it's the best method of protest in the long run. Our most famous civil disrupters did so nonviolently.
"Turn the other cheek" is a pretty amazing form of protest, it draws attention to the problem and makes those in power look like the gigantic assholes they are.
Our most famous civil disrupters are remembered that way because of a State backed disinfo campaign to discredit and delegitimize militant Black protestors. The peaceniks wouldn't have gotten near the traction they did without the existential threat of the Black Panthers.
Uh there's plenty of debate over what worked and what didn't, and like any bit of history it's horribly complex and there's no way to truly know the answer because none of these variables can be separated. But generally the dominant view is that MLK was a lot more effective - economic boycotts were a lot more effective because of the growing economic weight of the black population, and a policy of non-violence put him on a moral high ground that won support in government that guys like Malcomn X could have never achieved. Even more importantly his moral high ground and calls for democratic equality directly addressed the evils of racism in the national consciousness in a way that Malcolm X's threats of violence never could.
Now granted there's still plenty of room for disagreement over the particulars, but it's super fucking silly to suggest that the only reason people think otherwise is because of a "state backed disinfo campaign to discredit and delegitimize militant black protestors."
Also maybe don't refer to heroic non-violent protesters as "peaceniks", which is a derogatory term for anti-war protesters?
C'mon dude.
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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CrayonSleeps in the wrong bed.TejasRegistered Userregular
so people can cheer and defend this action because of what trump supporters have done, fighting fire with fire and all
but there's no way the other side will see it as fire and thus fight back with more fire?
The other side has been fighting with fire since the birth of our nation.
I just really don't give a fuck. I haven't felt more civic pride than when Trump came to town and was greeted with a small riot. "Oh no, they threw a bottle at some Trumpkins!" everyone said. Fuck that. San Jose is about as Latino a city as you're gonna find this far North, and they're gleefully rooting for a candidate that is an existential violent threat to their communities. All y'all judging from the sidelines, when ten years ago I was routinely getting into scraps with skinheads because they didn't like it when the Mexicans showed up to a punk show. Fucking mass deportations and special IDs for religious minorities is a normal part of the national discourse now but you've all gotten your fucking Fruit of the Looms in a bunch because of some minor vandalization. Fuck that.
I don't understand this position at all. If someone is running a racist campaign by saying your community is a bunch of criminals, the very last thing you'd want to do is commit crimes. You only give them more ammunition for their campaign.
In an ideal world I believe the State should have exclusive rights to violence. Unfortunately I live in this world, where the State provides those that brutalize minorities cover, when they aren't busy brutalizing them themselves.
Maybe it's seeing a teen-ager with their guts hanging out because they were brown but I just kind of lost my appetite for turning the other cheek a long time ago.
Then don't turn the other cheek. Put that image in front of as many people as you can to generate public outrage; but if you retaliate you will just make the fear mongers statements more believable.
Do you think if Black Lives Matters activists started throwing bricks through police car windows that it would help or hurt their movement?
I don't know, how did the Watts Riots play out? It made a nation very aware of problems that weren't addressed at higher levels as they should have, but it damn sure made people notice. Hell, reports were released with what should have been done but never were in the aftermath. In other words, it certainly makes people aware of issues...but we also have to act as a nation to respond to it.
Quoting this again because I just noticed something.
LGBTQ's for Trump? WHAT?!?
.... Hooooooow?
Log Cabin Republicans initially were excited by how casually he supported LGBT rights (well, at least relative to other GOP candidates) based on plenty of anecdotes where he attended gay weddings and supported gay friends/associates and so on, but decided to withhold their endorsement after he embraced the religious right and said he'd nominate anti-gay SCOTUS candidates, etc
Basically the lone semi-bright spot in his social policies, and LGBT GOP (as rare as one may imagine that to be) latched onto him because of it
Eddy on
"and the morning stars I have seen
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
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Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
Our most famous civil disrupters are remembered that way because of a State backed disinfo campaign to discredit and delegitimize militant Black protestors. The peaceniks wouldn't have gotten near the traction they did without the existential threat of the Black Panthers.
The Black Panthers tortured and murdered a teenager because they thought he was an FBI informant. More of them died in paranoid intra-organization purges than were ever shot by the police. They need no one to "delegitimize" them; their actions speak for themselves.
Re: Hollywood star-
Who cares? Guy committed politically-motivated vandalism and got arrested for it. It's a nonissue, like if someone took a hammer to the Clinton Foundation building facade or threw a brick through a Trump property window.
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CrayonSleeps in the wrong bed.TejasRegistered Userregular
As an aside, the hardest thing to get people to do during any movement is to give a shit if they don't feel they're directly affected by it. A problem we still face to this day with no signs of it changing. Some feel you have to make them care, and that avenue doesn't have a lot of in roads. Sure, you'll get plenty turned off but you have to have hope in the fact that they will give a damn.
Earlier he tweets that people are really cherry picking to say the race is tightening, then writes an article about how..the race is tightening and how they were totally wrong about a basketball game last night with the same odds
Ever since he misguessed the Trump win in the primaries, he's been hedging his bets pretty damn hard. He's still okay when he's actually looking at the numbers, but he's also been doing an awful lot of deep dives straight into out and out punditry this election.
Earlier he tweets that people are really cherry picking to say the race is tightening, then writes an article about how..the race is tightening and how they were totally wrong about a basketball game last night with the same odds
Ever since he misguessed the Trump win in the primaries, he's been hedging his bets pretty damn hard. He's still okay when he's actually looking at the numbers, but he's also been doing an awful lot of deep dives straight into out and out punditry this election.
I've been ignoring all the writeups at 538 and just looked at the model. Then I listen to Keepin' it 1600 for some affirmation. And I never, never read the comments. Anywhere.
Let me guess, she was referring to a completely different trip that the reporter missed, or the reporter was on the flight for the 'rain check' second trip?
Let me guess, she was referring to a completely different trip that the reporter missed, or the reporter was on the flight for the 'rain check' second trip?
No, she really did made it up and then apologized later. It was just one of those weird 2008 things, I don't know who he thinks could possibly still care.
Our most famous civil disrupters are remembered that way because of a State backed disinfo campaign to discredit and delegitimize militant Black protestors. The peaceniks wouldn't have gotten near the traction they did without the existential threat of the Black Panthers.
The Black Panthers tortured and murdered a teenager because they thought he was an FBI informant. More of them died in paranoid intra-organization purges than were ever shot by the police. They need no one to "delegitimize" them; their actions speak for themselves.
Re: Hollywood star-
Who cares? Guy committed politically-motivated vandalism and got arrested for it. It's a nonissue, like if someone took a hammer to the Clinton Foundation building facade or threw a brick through a Trump property window.
I never said they were 100% good guys, or that violence against humans is a good thing, but I really don't think the peaceful half of the movement would have had the success they did if Whites weren't terrified. I see violence as an understandable reaction (that should be punished by law) when a person is faced with a seemingly permanent intractable problem. I also think dismissing the entire movement because of internal paranoia and witch-hunts to be pretty myopic, especially when paranoia is a reasonable reaction to something like COINTELPRO (torture is not though).
I also agree that economic disruption is an incredibly effective tool and tangentially I'm way more about torching police cruisers and other property that the State uses to oppress than fucking Stars (though I've kept my personal activism to stuff that is more or less legal, because I feel I stand to effect more change that way).
Peacenik was a really poor choice of words though and I didn't consider the connotations, sorry about that.
Posts
In an ideal world I believe the State should have exclusive rights to violence. Unfortunately I live in this world, where the State provides those that brutalize minorities cover, when they aren't busy brutalizing them themselves.
Maybe it's seeing a teen-ager with their guts hanging out because they were brown but I just kind of lost my appetite for turning the other cheek a long time ago.
Bill Clinton was eating vegan for a while, I dunno if he's quit or just backslid, but he was definitely into it for a while. As someone above said, it was health related.
He could actually be there on duty. Like, for when people get hurt.
That's kind of a thing at Trump rallies.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Sure though, in infinite energy, time and money land you can do both.
Effort wasted in ineffectual actions like that is wasted and doesn't in any way help your cause(s).
Even if he's at "the best place to get oysters in town" that doesn't mean he's getting the oysters there.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Honestly could have fooled me. The Venn Diagram of effects of the London Fire and this Election are increasingly becoming a circle.
Oh dear... I just got to this point of the conversation. I honestly wish I hadn't read that, I already knew he was vile but this. I'm torn asunder by this because it's another datapoint I should share with my wife's side of the family to ram home the importance of voting, and damn would it be effective. But I can't do it, I can't expose others I love to that awfulness no matter the good intentions. It may be weak of me but I simply can't, those words alone ripped my heart right back open and made the loss of my own son rush right back. It sickens me at the deepest most personal level just as it did when he attacked the Khans. May my wife never see this.
Quoting this again because I just noticed something.
LGBTQ's for Trump? WHAT?!?
.... Hooooooow?
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
The Trump campaign makes up the signs and then passes them out. It's why you see white people holding "Blacks for Trump" signs.
Something he's pointed out himself, political statistics are very different from sports ones. It's played out over longer periods and has tens of millions of points in play - most sports only have a handful of scoring plays in the game, or have scoring so closely tied to the flow of the game that relatively few scoring plays end up being relevant to the outcome. It makes for a more stable system that's actually called boring to predict because of that stability.
Also, sports let you know exactly how much you're behind by at every moment, and you can still change the outcome when points start coming in. Elections give you some estimates and trends, but by the time points actually start coming in, one timezone is already closing the polls (and with it the bulk of the swing states) and your chances of swinging the rest in the waning hours of election day are nil.
Even if they were exactly the same, we play a lot more sports than we elect presidents. There's more basketball games in one week of the regular season than there are presidential elections in a century. Upsets that would be generational surprises in an election would still be a daily thing in sports if not for the higher volatility of the system.
Then don't turn the other cheek. Put that image in front of as many people as you can to generate public outrage; but if you retaliate you will just make the fear mongers statements more believable.
Do you think if Black Lives Matters activists started throwing bricks through police car windows that it would help or hurt their movement?
Uh there's plenty of debate over what worked and what didn't, and like any bit of history it's horribly complex and there's no way to truly know the answer because none of these variables can be separated. But generally the dominant view is that MLK was a lot more effective - economic boycotts were a lot more effective because of the growing economic weight of the black population, and a policy of non-violence put him on a moral high ground that won support in government that guys like Malcomn X could have never achieved. Even more importantly his moral high ground and calls for democratic equality directly addressed the evils of racism in the national consciousness in a way that Malcolm X's threats of violence never could.
Now granted there's still plenty of room for disagreement over the particulars, but it's super fucking silly to suggest that the only reason people think otherwise is because of a "state backed disinfo campaign to discredit and delegitimize militant black protestors."
Also maybe don't refer to heroic non-violent protesters as "peaceniks", which is a derogatory term for anti-war protesters?
C'mon dude.
I don't know, how did the Watts Riots play out? It made a nation very aware of problems that weren't addressed at higher levels as they should have, but it damn sure made people notice. Hell, reports were released with what should have been done but never were in the aftermath. In other words, it certainly makes people aware of issues...but we also have to act as a nation to respond to it.
Log Cabin Republicans initially were excited by how casually he supported LGBT rights (well, at least relative to other GOP candidates) based on plenty of anecdotes where he attended gay weddings and supported gay friends/associates and so on, but decided to withhold their endorsement after he embraced the religious right and said he'd nominate anti-gay SCOTUS candidates, etc
Basically the lone semi-bright spot in his social policies, and LGBT GOP (as rare as one may imagine that to be) latched onto him because of it
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Re: Hollywood star-
Who cares? Guy committed politically-motivated vandalism and got arrested for it. It's a nonissue, like if someone took a hammer to the Clinton Foundation building facade or threw a brick through a Trump property window.
What year is it?
Donald Trump is a terrible person. He is still a person. Dehumanization of anyone does not lead to any good place.
Ever since he misguessed the Trump win in the primaries, he's been hedging his bets pretty damn hard. He's still okay when he's actually looking at the numbers, but he's also been doing an awful lot of deep dives straight into out and out punditry this election.
I've been ignoring all the writeups at 538 and just looked at the model. Then I listen to Keepin' it 1600 for some affirmation. And I never, never read the comments. Anywhere.
Gonna stay in those threads to see how these investments are paying out for them.
The real question, will they actually pay the people they owe?
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
The same way its turned out for everyone else whose invested in Trump.
... wearing a lab coat and stethoscope?
and standing in the "look at these people, television cameras" area?
Let me guess, she was referring to a completely different trip that the reporter missed, or the reporter was on the flight for the 'rain check' second trip?
So many bad jokes to make...
Uh, so you're going to start contacting them privately to make your own wagers, right? $$$$$
It could be double duty.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
- John Stuart Mill
I never said they were 100% good guys, or that violence against humans is a good thing, but I really don't think the peaceful half of the movement would have had the success they did if Whites weren't terrified. I see violence as an understandable reaction (that should be punished by law) when a person is faced with a seemingly permanent intractable problem. I also think dismissing the entire movement because of internal paranoia and witch-hunts to be pretty myopic, especially when paranoia is a reasonable reaction to something like COINTELPRO (torture is not though).
I also agree that economic disruption is an incredibly effective tool and tangentially I'm way more about torching police cruisers and other property that the State uses to oppress than fucking Stars (though I've kept my personal activism to stuff that is more or less legal, because I feel I stand to effect more change that way).
Peacenik was a really poor choice of words though and I didn't consider the connotations, sorry about that.
Chuck Tingle is second to no man! Tingle/Tatum 2016!
Tatum is the Hard President candidate for the Buckaroo party, with Chuck Tingle as Viceman. It's a thing he talks about.
TATUMENTUM!
As hilarious as this is, they don't track any write ins that aren't official candidates. If you're trying to make a statement or whatever.
I knew the system was rigged against Lizard People all along.