if we're looking to construct a ban list, the death of every league we've ever had, i suggest we start at the battle tree ban list and talk from there.
I could be wrong about this but I think the way smogon thinks about legal movesets is "is it physically possible to have a pokemon know these moves together from any real event distributions combined with transferring through different generations and using move tutors and etc.", handwaving away concerns about resetting for nature or perfect IVs because they mostly compete in simulators so what do they care about that.
So if non-alolan pikachu transfered from the bank can evolve into a-raichu, surf would be a legal move on it because past event distributed pikachus can legally know surf. On smogon and in nintendo formats that don't otherwise ban pokemon not originating from a gen 7 game, which the next official championship league thing I think does.
I could be wrong about this but I think the way smogon thinks about legal movesets is "is it physically possible to have a pokemon know these moves together from any real event distributions combined with transferring through different generations and using move tutors and etc.", handwaving away concerns about resetting for nature or perfect IVs because they mostly compete in simulators so what do they care about that.
So if non-alolan pikachu transfered from the bank can evolve into a-raichu, surf would be a legal move on it because past event distributed pikachus can legally know surf. On smogon and in nintendo formats that don't otherwise ban pokemon not originating from a gen 7 game, which the next official championship league thing I think does.
I would be willing to bet money that Pikachu from other regions can't evolve into Alolan Raichu
if we're looking to construct a ban list, the death of every league we've ever had, i suggest we start at the battle tree ban list and talk from there.
A specific ban list seems silly when already have two. Just go with Nintendo or Smogon.
I want to put together an interesting competitive team. But I ALSO want to put together a team that's nothing but dog Pokemon and call it "The Good Boys". We'll see if I have time for both.
I could be wrong about this but I think the way smogon thinks about legal movesets is "is it physically possible to have a pokemon know these moves together from any real event distributions combined with transferring through different generations and using move tutors and etc.", handwaving away concerns about resetting for nature or perfect IVs because they mostly compete in simulators so what do they care about that.
So if non-alolan pikachu transfered from the bank can evolve into a-raichu, surf would be a legal move on it because past event distributed pikachus can legally know surf. On smogon and in nintendo formats that don't otherwise ban pokemon not originating from a gen 7 game, which the next official championship league thing I think does.
I would be willing to bet money that Pikachu from other regions can't evolve into Alolan Raichu
On the one hand, Serebii says that mons who originate from previous generations will evolve into their Alolan form if evolved in SUMO.
Oh the other hand, who the fuck really knows for sure until January?
I guess I kind of see what @Beasteh is saying though, and combined with your point @Bobkins Flymo - is that it all kind of walks a weird balance between "spot banning specific pokemon," and "arbitrary pokemon bans"
Like, Aegislash is better than most legendaries. Hell, even Volcarona is better than a lot of legendaries, despite the 4x Stealth Rock Weakness.
I think we are getting to the point where there are so many pokemon that either you have a weird ban list or make smogon's weird tiers....it just feels like they aren't really "natural" or obvious what those tiers are.
And sometimes a pokemon will move up a tier or down a tier and I guess that's part of the balancing game and i've quite lost my point a bit since im trying to think about this in between experiments
I just don't like Smogon's tiers, and I definitely get sad when I look at the Nintendo Tournament teams and like 90% of the teams are almost literally identical and it just feels weird.
Smogon's the best we got, but it's far from my ideal scenario, even if I don't know what that is
Here is my purposed ban list starting point. I think we can agree to most of this.
Mewtwo
Mew
Lugia
Ho-Oh
Celebi
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
Jirachi
Deoxys
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina
Phione
Manaphy
Darkrai
Shaymin
Arceus
Victini
Reshiram
Zekrom
Kyurem
Keldeo
Meloetta
Genesect
Xerneas
Yveltal
Zygarde
Diancie
Hoopa
Volcanion
Cosmog
Cosmoem
Solgaleo
Lunala
Necrozma
Magearna
Marshadow
That's basically Nintendo's ban list with Gen VII added, correct?
Here's Nintendo's official ban list from last gen's Flash Clash:
Players may use Pokémon with National Pokédex number 1 through 720, with the exception of the following: Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Celebi, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi, Deoxys, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Phione, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Victini, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Keldeo, Meloetta, Genesect, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, Diancie, and Hoopa.
there is no practical reason not to hack your competitive team's IVs, there's no actual way to tell the difference between a hacked perfect stat pokemon and one you just got lucky with or bred.
There's a line of accuracy where a fake just starts being the real thing.
there is no practical reason not to hack your competitive team's IVs, there's no actual way to tell the difference between a hacked perfect stat pokemon and one you just got lucky with or bred.
There's a line of accuracy where a fake just starts being the real thing.
Also known as- What I hope becomes of my Academic Career
The thing with Smogon is they do have their own metagame within the community. A build i suggested and is popular because it counters or compliments another popular build. without that the tiers kind of break down a bit. there is also the whole thing of tiers being based on use and not actually power, which is why a lot of strong fire types don't get play because stealth rocks is popular in smogon which greatly reduces fire types. In a metagame with less stealth rocks fire is a lot more viable.
The thing with Smogon is they do have their own metagame within the community. A build i suggested and is popular because it counters or compliments another popular build. without that the tiers kind of break down a bit. there is also the whole thing of tiers being based on use and not actually power, which is why a lot of strong fire types don't get play because stealth rocks is popular in smogon which greatly reduces fire types. In a metagame with less stealth rocks fire is a lot more viable.
yeah but stealth rock is popular because it's an excellent move
The thing with Smogon is they do have their own metagame within the community. A build i suggested and is popular because it counters or compliments another popular build. without that the tiers kind of break down a bit. there is also the whole thing of tiers being based on use and not actually power, which is why a lot of strong fire types don't get play because stealth rocks is popular in smogon which greatly reduces fire types. In a metagame with less stealth rocks fire is a lot more viable.
yeah but stealth rock is popular because it's an excellent move
The thing with Smogon is they do have their own metagame within the community. A build i suggested and is popular because it counters or compliments another popular build. without that the tiers kind of break down a bit. there is also the whole thing of tiers being based on use and not actually power, which is why a lot of strong fire types don't get play because stealth rocks is popular in smogon which greatly reduces fire types. In a metagame with less stealth rocks fire is a lot more viable.
yeah but stealth rock is popular because it's an excellent move
that depends on how you define "excellent"
"softens up targets, wears down stall teams, severely weakens many pokemon, breaks sturdy and focus sash" seems like it'd reach most standards of "excellent" to me
Stealth rock feels a lot like Mortal Strike in World of Warcraft's arena.
My memory may be faulty, but IIRC Mortal Strike gave a debuff to heals received in the team PVP environment they made. Eventually, team comps basically became "how do we get away with spamming mortal strike at all times" to the point that Blizzard eventually went "sure, now there's just a flat reduction to healing power across the board in PVP"
Playing with stealth rock is basically just saying "sure, bug, rock, flying, and ice types all just have less HP across the board than other types, sorry."
I get like, the idea- make constant switching of pokemon an actual choice instead of a reflexive action but stealth rock, unlike the other entry hazards, doesn't have enough of a built in counter and its frustrating having to think "okay make sure you have a stealth rock setter, and an entry hazard remover, and maybe a taunt pokemon" on every team (hyperbolically)
Posts
Take your favorite fighty fiction character
If they were a pokemon, what sort would they be? No need to use existent species
So if non-alolan pikachu transfered from the bank can evolve into a-raichu, surf would be a legal move on it because past event distributed pikachus can legally know surf. On smogon and in nintendo formats that don't otherwise ban pokemon not originating from a gen 7 game, which the next official championship league thing I think does.
A lit of the big issues wont be around till january anyways
The only legendaries will be the Tapus and the UBs, and megas aren't allowed
Will be refreshing after the Mega/Ubers fuckfest of this year's VGC
I would be willing to bet money that Pikachu from other regions can't evolve into Alolan Raichu
Harry Dresden would, depending on the book, be Flying/Fire, Psychic/Fire, or perhaps Ice/Fairy.
That is a very wide variety
On the one hand, Serebii says that mons who originate from previous generations will evolve into their Alolan form if evolved in SUMO.
Oh the other hand, who the fuck really knows for sure until January?
Timid, Adamant, Jolly and Modest cover most attackers
to kill joy.
i read this as the genre, fighty fiction, and got confused
Like, Aegislash is better than most legendaries. Hell, even Volcarona is better than a lot of legendaries, despite the 4x Stealth Rock Weakness.
I think we are getting to the point where there are so many pokemon that either you have a weird ban list or make smogon's weird tiers....it just feels like they aren't really "natural" or obvious what those tiers are.
And sometimes a pokemon will move up a tier or down a tier and I guess that's part of the balancing game and i've quite lost my point a bit since im trying to think about this in between experiments
I just don't like Smogon's tiers, and I definitely get sad when I look at the Nintendo Tournament teams and like 90% of the teams are almost literally identical and it just feels weird.
Smogon's the best we got, but it's far from my ideal scenario, even if I don't know what that is
It's that defined by what's in the Aloladex rather than what's available in-game? 'Cause you can get Honest from island scan.
solid snake: dark/fighting
http://www.audioentropy.com/
That's basically Nintendo's ban list with Gen VII added, correct?
Here's Nintendo's official ban list from last gen's Flash Clash:
Seems like a decent enough list
aka the best type
There's a line of accuracy where a fake just starts being the real thing.
Also known as- What I hope becomes of my Academic Career
I'm going mad
yeah but stealth rock is popular because it's an excellent move
http://www.audioentropy.com/
that depends on how you define "excellent"
big boss: ghost/fighting
liquid snake: dark
solidus snake: fighting/steel
raiden: fairy/steel or dark/steel depending on the game
http://www.audioentropy.com/
If you decide it's not worth it anymore I've got 2 Adamant Mimikyu sitting around from when I was breeding one for a future run
Black2: 1593 2528 7190 3DS:0216-0910-3881 LoL:drp527
"softens up targets, wears down stall teams, severely weakens many pokemon, breaks sturdy and focus sash" seems like it'd reach most standards of "excellent" to me
http://www.audioentropy.com/
It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it gets everywhere.
I feel like he should be Dark and Solid should be Ghost somehow
they're more like the Smashboards of pokemon
http://www.audioentropy.com/
At the least, he should have some electric moves.
three stage evo
MGS2 Raiden is fairy/steel or maybe fighting/steel
MGS4 Raiden is electric/steel
MGR Raiden is dark/steel
http://www.audioentropy.com/
My memory may be faulty, but IIRC Mortal Strike gave a debuff to heals received in the team PVP environment they made. Eventually, team comps basically became "how do we get away with spamming mortal strike at all times" to the point that Blizzard eventually went "sure, now there's just a flat reduction to healing power across the board in PVP"
Playing with stealth rock is basically just saying "sure, bug, rock, flying, and ice types all just have less HP across the board than other types, sorry."
I get like, the idea- make constant switching of pokemon an actual choice instead of a reflexive action but stealth rock, unlike the other entry hazards, doesn't have enough of a built in counter and its frustrating having to think "okay make sure you have a stealth rock setter, and an entry hazard remover, and maybe a taunt pokemon" on every team (hyperbolically)