One of my friends was interviewing people for a devops type job and about 50% of the candidates couldn't even fizzbuzz
people with honest-to-god CS degrees couldn't even start to make up a 10 line program in pseudocode
Aioua on
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
SiG if you don't ban skippy in your first 100 days you'll never have the political capital to ban him ever again and you know his destructive ideas will ruin our society in the long term
this modministration is already beset by turmoil, suspect ties to outside forums
there are questions that need answering and I'm calling for an independent probe
I want sig's tax returns, I want to know how she paid for that new car, all of it
The real issue isn't the fake news being reported ok, the real news is, how does the news know to report this fake news
The answer, ladies and gentlemen, is skippy
3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
NNID: Hakkekage
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
One of my friends was interviewing people for a devops type job and about 50% of the candidates couldn't even fizzbuzz
people with honest-to-god CS degrees couldn't even start to make up a 10 line program in pseudocode
addendum
when he told me this I was like "what's fizzbuzz" and then I banged it out in 5 minutes in powershell and I'm not a even programmer, at the time I was T1 desktop support
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
+2
Options
Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
Eccleston, Tennant, and Capaldi are all fabulous actors, but Swinton takes her costars to school in every scene, and I would love to see what she brings to Doctor Who.
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YamiNoSenshiA point called ZIn the complex planeRegistered Userregular
Having interviewed STEM job applicants I can say that while there is no shortage of STEM graduates, there is a shortage of good STEM graduates.
My company isn't even trying to underpay or offer shit benefits and they've already accepted that they won't be getting google and apple level talent. And yet still, candidate after candidate cannot answer simple questions.
The ones that can answer are typically swimming in offers and take whatever tickles their fancy.
Can you give examples? This kind of thing makes me curious
canny edge detection and building boxes, etc
The canny edge detection story is actually a good example. My company does computer vision, so every applicant for certain positions has taken a computer vision course and listed computer vision as a specialization for a post-graduate degree. So keep that in mind.
Canny edge detection is one of the basic, most commonly taught computer vision algorithms. Its an image transform that takes in a fully detailed photographic image and spits out another image that looks more like a line drawing. Its great for, as its name suggests, detecting edges. It lets a computer greatly cut down the information content of an image, and make the content left over invariant to lighting, shading, etc. It's typically taught in Image Processing or Computer Vision 101 type classes.
I asked an open-ended question of a candidate. "How would you find a cardboard box in an image of a cardboard box?" The question tests a variety of things, but it's very open to discussion. One candidate in their answer mentioned the canny edge detector, but the way they used it in their design seemed a little odd and skipped a lot of steps, so I asked them to go back and explain. They looked at me like I had just ripped their pants down, so I knew I was in for a treat.
Over the course of their explanation, it became clear that they didn't know what the canny edge detector was or what it did or what its inputs and outputs were. These are not hard questions. It takes in a photo, it spits out a line drawing. But they couldn't say it because they didn't know it. They just threw out the words and hoped I'd let them gloss over it. And I would have, if their usage had made any sense.
From there the interview went rapidly downhill. It was clear they didn't have any computer vision experience and they failed the basic C/C++ programming test too. And this is not uncommon. This is representative of about half of the people who make it through the screening process. These are people with nice GPAs and degrees from good institutions. It's really demoralizing.
I mean, if I'm ready canny edge right on wikipedia, it's a grayscale/bluring (reduce the number of tiny sharp edges?) image where they scan over the ints in the bitmap and check for something breaking a threshold between adjacent values, seems pretty straight forward.
If you were doing computer vision as a degree this seems like something you'd be doing every god damned day for research and projects to the point where it'd be second nature.
Is the C++ just like.. testing if you know for/if/else/variables or are you doing OOP, structs, bit packing, etc ?
Canny is a very specific implementation of that, one that was invented in the 70s and is always cited as the default / standard edge detection technique. But essentially yes. You're looking for gradient that exceeds a certain threshold. Yes is is used like every day.
C++ test is a little nitpicky, but it's nothing crazy. We ask about macros and the preprocessor, keywords like static. We ask about pre and post increment stuff, pointer questions, some basic "reimplement basic string parsing" stuff, one question that tests that the candidate can write a sane function definition for something that need to use dynamically allocated memory. I'd call it a middling C++ test. Goes beyond if/else and loops, but stops sort of advanced crazy shit like multiple inheritance or weird ass corner cases that would be mean to expect someone to know.
I thought the macro question is a little mean at first, but when I watched a few people reason through it, I was impressed with how readily it exposes the frauds.
It really is kind of crazy the kind of shit you can do with macros though.
You don't hardly even need to write c++ code, just do it all in the preprocessor macro language.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
shit I guess I can't call my blunderbuss silver bullet gun oil now.
One of my friends was interviewing people for a devops type job and about 50% of the candidates couldn't even fizzbuzz
people with honest-to-god CS degrees couldn't even start to make up a 10 line program in pseudocode
This is why companies are like "We cannot find enough qualified people for jobs, we need H1B visas", and people are like "but there are tons of unemployed STEM people!". Neither side is lying, both facts happen to be true at the same time. They're not mutual exclusives
Donkey Kong on
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
One of my friends was interviewing people for a devops type job and about 50% of the candidates couldn't even fizzbuzz
people with honest-to-god CS degrees couldn't even start to make up a 10 line program in pseudocode
You can't be fucking serious.
I have a CIS degree and I can do that.
I'll be honest. I don't know if I could either. But I can find tests to break any program over my goddamn knee.
I bet you could
input: a list of random ints with values between 1 and 100
output: for each number print "fizz" if it's (evenly) divisible by 3, "buzz" if it's divisible by 5, and "fizzbuzz" if divisible by both.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
0
Options
ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
One of my friends was interviewing people for a devops type job and about 50% of the candidates couldn't even fizzbuzz
people with honest-to-god CS degrees couldn't even start to make up a 10 line program in pseudocode
This is why companies are like "We cannot find enough qualified people for jobs, we need H1B visas", and people are like "but there are tons of unemployed STEM people!". Neither side is lying, both facts happen to be true at the same time. They're not mutual exclusives
Having interviewed STEM job applicants I can say that while there is no shortage of STEM graduates, there is a shortage of good STEM graduates.
My company isn't even trying to underpay or offer shit benefits and they've already accepted that they won't be getting google and apple level talent. And yet still, candidate after candidate cannot answer simple questions.
The ones that can answer are typically swimming in offers and take whatever tickles their fancy.
Can you give examples? This kind of thing makes me curious
canny edge detection and building boxes, etc
The canny edge detection story is actually a good example. My company does computer vision, so every applicant for certain positions has taken a computer vision course and listed computer vision as a specialization for a post-graduate degree. So keep that in mind.
Canny edge detection is one of the basic, most commonly taught computer vision algorithms. Its an image transform that takes in a fully detailed photographic image and spits out another image that looks more like a line drawing. Its great for, as its name suggests, detecting edges. It lets a computer greatly cut down the information content of an image, and make the content left over invariant to lighting, shading, etc. It's typically taught in Image Processing or Computer Vision 101 type classes.
I asked an open-ended question of a candidate. "How would you find a cardboard box in an image of a cardboard box?" The question tests a variety of things, but it's very open to discussion. One candidate in their answer mentioned the canny edge detector, but the way they used it in their design seemed a little odd and skipped a lot of steps, so I asked them to go back and explain. They looked at me like I had just ripped their pants down, so I knew I was in for a treat.
Over the course of their explanation, it became clear that they didn't know what the canny edge detector was or what it did or what its inputs and outputs were. These are not hard questions. It takes in a photo, it spits out a line drawing. But they couldn't say it because they didn't know it. They just threw out the words and hoped I'd let them gloss over it. And I would have, if their usage had made any sense.
From there the interview went rapidly downhill. It was clear they didn't have any computer vision experience and they failed the basic C/C++ programming test too. And this is not uncommon. This is representative of about half of the people who make it through the screening process. These are people with nice GPAs and degrees from good institutions. It's really demoralizing.
I mean, if I'm ready canny edge right on wikipedia, it's a grayscale/bluring (reduce the number of tiny sharp edges?) image where they scan over the ints in the bitmap and check for something breaking a threshold between adjacent values, seems pretty straight forward.
If you were doing computer vision as a degree this seems like something you'd be doing every god damned day for research and projects to the point where it'd be second nature.
Is the C++ just like.. testing if you know for/if/else/variables or are you doing OOP, structs, bit packing, etc ?
Canny is a very specific implementation of that, one that was invented in the 70s and is always cited as the default / standard edge detection technique. But essentially yes. You're looking for gradient that exceeds a certain threshold. Yes is is used like every day.
C++ test is a little nitpicky, but it's nothing crazy. We ask about macros and the preprocessor, keywords like static. We ask about pre and post increment stuff, pointer questions, some basic "reimplement basic string parsing" stuff, one question that tests that the candidate can write a sane function definition for something that need to use dynamically allocated memory. I'd call it a middling C++ test. Goes beyond if/else and loops, but stops sort of advanced crazy shit like multiple inheritance or weird ass corner cases that would be mean to expect someone to know.
I thought the macro question is a little mean at first, but when I watched a few people reason through it, I was impressed with how readily it exposes the frauds.
It really is kind of crazy the kind of shit you can do with macros though.
You don't hardly even need to write c++ code, just do it all in the preprocessor macro language.
After asking that macro question we say something like "ok very nice you got it! but if you ever write code like that you are fired. haha just kidding! seriously though. gone immediately."
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
I very much agree with what Donkey Kong wrote above. About half of candidates that get through all the layers of screening to even get to an interview seem unable to answer basic questions about things they chose to list on their resume. If someone doesn't know X that's usually not a problem But don't then go and say you know X on your fucking resume.
I want examples so that I can feel cool for knowing things that other people don't
oh for example what is the difference between a value type and a reference type (or struct vs class) in C#. Why would you use a List<> vs a Dictionary<>. (for someone who claimed to know C#)
Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
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YamiNoSenshiA point called ZIn the complex planeRegistered Userregular
One of my friends was interviewing people for a devops type job and about 50% of the candidates couldn't even fizzbuzz
people with honest-to-god CS degrees couldn't even start to make up a 10 line program in pseudocode
You can't be fucking serious.
I have a CIS degree and I can do that.
I'll be honest. I don't know if I could either. But I can find tests to break any program over my goddamn knee.
I bet you could
input: a list of random ints with values between 1 and 100
output: for each number print "fizz" if it's (evenly) divisible by 3, "buzz" if it's divisible by 5, and "fizzbuzz" if divisible by both.
for each i in inputlist
if i mod 3 == 0
print fizz
if i mod 5 ==0
print buzz
print newline
next
Okay, yeah, that's dumb easy if you've done any programming ever.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Posts
But I just want you to know that it continues to be true.
people with honest-to-god CS degrees couldn't even start to make up a 10 line program in pseudocode
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
i am trying to restrict my yelling about it to the thread about live events but like
fuck
BUILD ME MY ROBOT BODY
The real issue isn't the fake news being reported ok, the real news is, how does the news know to report this fake news
The answer, ladies and gentlemen, is skippy
NNID: Hakkekage
well you see dukakis ran an ad where he was in a tank so
are you more free now that you have ever been?
y/y?
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
You can't be fucking serious.
I have a CIS degree and I can do that.
i am struck by how boring white supremacist groups names are
though there's one in virginia just called "silver bullet gun oil" and like
right to the point i guess
Witnessed!
Just a good summary of the big fucking deal today, except for of course whatever shit goes down while I'm typing this post
NNID: Hakkekage
addendum
when he told me this I was like "what's fizzbuzz" and then I banged it out in 5 minutes in powershell and I'm not a even programmer, at the time I was T1 desktop support
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
yeah it was just embarrassing, why would the American public ever want someone so incredibly unpresidential
I'd probably find a way to start watching again.
Eccleston, Tennant, and Capaldi are all fabulous actors, but Swinton takes her costars to school in every scene, and I would love to see what she brings to Doctor Who.
I'll be honest. I don't know if I could either. But I can find tests to break any program over my goddamn knee.
Very pretty and calming but still has the fun frisson of being underwater which is always spooky as heck.
It really is kind of crazy the kind of shit you can do with macros though.
You don't hardly even need to write c++ code, just do it all in the preprocessor macro language.
I should do a codeacademy on Javascript or something
This is why companies are like "We cannot find enough qualified people for jobs, we need H1B visas", and people are like "but there are tons of unemployed STEM people!". Neither side is lying, both facts happen to be true at the same time. They're not mutual exclusives
...yay
ok so we're a hate group but what's four things we like
I bet you could
input: a list of random ints with values between 1 and 100
output: for each number print "fizz" if it's (evenly) divisible by 3, "buzz" if it's divisible by 5, and "fizzbuzz" if divisible by both.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
GOVERNMENT AIN'T FUNDING MY RESEARCH
I don't think it's THAT bad.
After asking that macro question we say something like "ok very nice you got it! but if you ever write code like that you are fired. haha just kidding! seriously though. gone immediately."
Are they only racist against werewolves?
IT ISNT BY MY HAND
the other 50% is knowing that the modulo operator is a thing that exists
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
oh for example what is the difference between a value type and a reference type (or struct vs class) in C#. Why would you use a List<> vs a Dictionary<>. (for someone who claimed to know C#)
for each i in inputlist
if i mod 3 == 0
print fizz
if i mod 5 ==0
print buzz
print newline
next
Okay, yeah, that's dumb easy if you've done any programming ever.
that would be awesome actually
I was like, huh I can't say what static is
then I looked it up and it's like oh yeah, you can call the function without first having an object of that type
and if it's like a static variable, it's basically global across all instances of that object
and you can't create an interface for static shit so that's a knock against it in the test system we use (google mocks/tests)
yeah I knew those three things, but I had to do a google first to get my bearings : (
You and the fine [chat]ters like you are the reason I do what I do, KP!