Which reminds me: what do people here think of Speed Racer? I seem to remember that it baffled critics at the time, but there are some who are very vocal in their defense of the movie.
Speed Racer is one of my favorite movies. It's beautiful, fun, super weird, and surprisingly emotionally effective. It's probably one of the only great adaptations of a thing to a different thing that I've ever seen. It captures the spirit of the dumb show perfectly.
If you let Speed Racer get you invested in its stakes, the climax of that movie is incredibly cathartic
It's the only movie I ever walked out on, but also I was 20 and still overcoming rampant cynicism. This post has convinced me to give it a re-watch.
It is a great example of crazy art.
I think (at the time) a lot of people had this warm fuzzy memory of Speed Racer and watching it as a kid when some things never mattered to you because fast stuff and cartoons and cool cars, and then when they see if as an adult they get upset because it was actually really close to the source material, but now they're adults and much more cynical (like you said).
I hated it the first time, but once i got over myself and gave up my brain for the ride I found i really enjoy its absolutely bonkers visuals and wacky storyline.
You definitely need to be in the right mindset, the movie is overwhelmingly earnest and needs you to be invested in a way that you usually aren't in this sort of movie.
This is a spoiler for the movie's themes and some of the way it gets its hooks in you emotionally
I love how the movie actively responds to its own narrative arc in the middle of the movie. Pop's and Speed's emotional healing after Rex's death is done through watching an old race, one in which they already know the outcome. It's not the fact that they see something happen live, they're letting the joy of seeing something done well sweep them away. That theme gets repeated several times in the movie, and always by one of the good guys. And Speed Racer, the movie, wants to do the same thing to you. The audience knows Speed is going to win the last race. The title of this movie is Speed Racer, it's a foregone conclusion. The work in front of the Wachowskis was to get the audience cheering for someone they knew would win, to be on the edge of their seat through all the races even though they knew the outcome. And (in my opinion), they fucking nail it, you get to the end of the grand prix and you're breathless because this movie has successfully hooked you without you even realizing it.
Good to hear that. As I've said, I know there are people who loved the film, yet the reviews I've found from critics whose opinions I respect are pretty damning.
Well, since the Blu-ray cost £2, at worst I'll just have wasted two hours. :P
my advice for watching Speed Racer is: Be open to how earnest it is, don't let the kid stuff annoy you too much (which is the easiest thing to be put off by because it's so authentic to the original show), and definitely watch it on bluray
The villain is played by Roger Allam at peak scene chewing villain and John Goodman at peak Great Dad
I remember reading about the thesis that John Goodman is one of our great living supporting actors.
I've yet to see evidence to the contrary.
Not a supporting role, but I wish I can forget the Flinstones movie(s)
That's the thing - he's a great supporting actor. As a lead, he tends to fall flat, but in a supporting role or part of an ensemble, he shines.
Which reminds me: what do people here think of Speed Racer? I seem to remember that it baffled critics at the time, but there are some who are very vocal in their defense of the movie.
Speed Racer is one of my favorite movies. It's beautiful, fun, super weird, and surprisingly emotionally effective. It's probably one of the only great adaptations of a thing to a different thing that I've ever seen. It captures the spirit of the dumb show perfectly.
If you let Speed Racer get you invested in its stakes, the climax of that movie is incredibly cathartic
It's the only movie I ever walked out on, but also I was 20 and still overcoming rampant cynicism. This post has convinced me to give it a re-watch.
It is a great example of crazy art.
I think (at the time) a lot of people had this warm fuzzy memory of Speed Racer and watching it as a kid when some things never mattered to you because fast stuff and cartoons and cool cars, and then when they see if as an adult they get upset because it was actually really close to the source material, but now they're adults and much more cynical (like you said).
I hated it the first time, but once i got over myself and gave up my brain for the ride I found i really enjoy its absolutely bonkers visuals and wacky storyline.
You definitely need to be in the right mindset, the movie is overwhelmingly earnest and needs you to be invested in a way that you usually aren't in this sort of movie.
This is a spoiler for the movie's themes and some of the way it gets its hooks in you emotionally
I love how the movie actively responds to its own narrative arc in the middle of the movie. Pop's and Speed's emotional healing after Rex's death is done through watching an old race, one in which they already know the outcome. It's not the fact that they see something happen live, they're letting the joy of seeing something done well sweep them away. That theme gets repeated several times in the movie, and always by one of the good guys. And Speed Racer, the movie, wants to do the same thing to you. The audience knows Speed is going to win the last race. The title of this movie is Speed Racer, it's a foregone conclusion. The work in front of the Wachowskis was to get the audience cheering for someone they knew would win, to be on the edge of their seat through all the races even though they knew the outcome. And (in my opinion), they fucking nail it, you get to the end of the grand prix and you're breathless because this movie has successfully hooked you without you even realizing it.
To sum up:
Spoiler warning: This IS the end of the movie. And it's one of the most awesome things ever put on film.
Which reminds me: what do people here think of Speed Racer? I seem to remember that it baffled critics at the time, but there are some who are very vocal in their defense of the movie.
The SE++ movie thread is overwhelmingly positive about Speed Racer.
Which just goes to show that they cannot be trusted
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
Those that view the movie this way are obviously still stuck in the Matrix. You gotta, like, free your mind man!
Which reminds me: what do people here think of Speed Racer? I seem to remember that it baffled critics at the time, but there are some who are very vocal in their defense of the movie.
The SE++ movie thread is overwhelmingly positive about Speed Racer.
Which just goes to show that they cannot be trusted
Well it is the nerdiest thread on the forums after all!
As much as they tried, the machines could never fully control the prison. The machines tried to fix the bug in the system but eventually discovered that its a flawed feature of the human condition. The machines had grown content to just murder death kill humans every generation.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
Good to hear that. As I've said, I know there are people who loved the film, yet the reviews I've found from critics whose opinions I respect are pretty damning.
Well, since the Blu-ray cost £2, at worst I'll just have wasted two hours. :P
my advice for watching Speed Racer is: Be open to how earnest it is, don't let the kid stuff annoy you too much (which is the easiest thing to be put off by because it's so authentic to the original show), and definitely watch it on bluray
The villain is played by Roger Allam at peak scene chewing villain and John Goodman at peak Great Dad
I remember reading about the thesis that John Goodman is one of our great living supporting actors.
I've yet to see evidence to the contrary.
Not a supporting role, but I wish I can forget the Flinstones movie(s)
That's the thing - he's a great supporting actor. As a lead, he tends to fall flat, but in a supporting role or part of an ensemble, he shines.
His role in Barton Fink still gives me the chills.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
Poppin' in here because The Matrix was one of my obsessions in high school (all three of 'em), and I'll be damned if all that useless knowledge I absorbed goes to waste... but yes, humanity was given the choice to leave, but it's still all within the confines of the simulation, albeit just a less oppressive one for both the Matrix world and "real world" Zion (The Megacity world ditches it's green tones for technicolor). The fact that Smith could still take over bodies and Neo could still see via the Matrix code while in Zion was proof of this. I could be wrong, but then my childhood would be for naught.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
Those are not the only explanations of that. The main one being that neo's implants and specifically designed brain are able to see the machines without his own eyes. It doesn't mean he's in the matrix.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
Poppin' in here because The Matrix was one of my obsessions in high school (all three of 'em), and I'll be damned if all that useless knowledge I absorbed goes to waste... but yes, humanity was given the choice to leave, but it's still all within the confines of the simulation, albeit just a less oppressive one for both the Matrix world and "real world" Zion (The Megacity world ditches it's green tones for technicolor). The fact that Smith could still take over bodies and Neo could still see via the Matrix code while in Zion was proof of this. I could be wrong, but then my childhood would be for naught.
He can take over people hat have implants in their brains.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
I believe the technobabble explanation for that was...
after meeting the Architect, Neo has the 'source code' whatever for the Matrix, needed to reboot after Zion is wiped. From that moment on, he can feel the machine stuff IRL, he's connected via wifi. The plugholes aren't meant for that, but they're a data to body interface, so they can be broadly used that way, with some dire results for Neo when he first tries to 'broadcast' without the proper setup.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
I believe the technobabble explanation for that was...
after meeting the Architect, Neo has the 'source code' whatever for the Matrix, needed to reboot after Zion is wiped. From that moment on, he can feel the machine stuff IRL, he's connected via wifi. The plugholes aren't meant for that, but they're a data to body interface, so they can be broadly used that way, with some dire results for Neo when he first tries to 'broadcast' without the proper setup.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
Or there's the third explanation which is the one the film actually gives.
Namely, that he is essentially permanently connected to the Matrix. This happens earlier in the film too and at the end of the second film. When he goes into that comma he's stuck halfway between his brain and the matrix and Trinity and Morpheus have to go into the matrix to save him. He doesn't see everything, he sees Smith inside Bane. Later he can see the machine city too for the same reason.
I mean, it's weird and kinda silly but it's not at all what you are claiming the explanation is.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
Poppin' in here because The Matrix was one of my obsessions in high school (all three of 'em), and I'll be damned if all that useless knowledge I absorbed goes to waste... but yes, humanity was given the choice to leave, but it's still all within the confines of the simulation, albeit just a less oppressive one for both the Matrix world and "real world" Zion (The Megacity world ditches it's green tones for technicolor). The fact that Smith could still take over bodies and Neo could still see via the Matrix code while in Zion was proof of this. I could be wrong, but then my childhood would be for naught.
No, the choice is between accepting the simulation or not. The whole reason people like Neo and Trinity and such exist is because some percentage of humans simply refuse to accept simulation as real and their brains rebel against it. It's why everything feels wrong to them.
There is a world in which the final twist is that they are still trapped in the matrix, and this is a sort of second trap to make people think they're free. But that isn't there in the movie and the movie ends much more hopefully than that. There would need to be much more overt storytelling towards that.
The whole "second larger Matrix" thing came around because it was the only explanation for the end of Reloaded (when Neo japs the squid-bots with his mind) that seemed to make any sense.
Frankly, it's still the only explanation that made any sense for that weird ass bit at the end of Reloaded.
But it's not the explanation the 3rd film actually gives.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
the second large Matrix thing also requires lying to the audience with regards to what Trinity and Morpheus are up to for that whole third movie. They could be fake new versions created to shepherd Neo through this new reality, but we get scenes of them alone, trying and succeeding in recovering Neo from the French guy.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
Those are not the only explanations of that. The main one being that neo's implants and specifically designed brain are able to see the machines without his own eyes. It doesn't mean he's in the matrix.
An assertion that has zero basis in the actual world or plot.
It is presented as a real-world miracle; miracles without explanation are not the province of sci-fi; that is fantasy.
Incidentally, my explanation also fixes the people-as-batteries problem: they're not. Skynet or whatever cooked up a scenario where the machines were doing some moustache-twirlingly evil shit on one level, so that people dissatisfied with the carpet store can take themselves off the grid.
They are still in the Matrix, just a different area. I imagine that anyone who dies from unnatural causes also wakes up in a new sim, or maybe The Good Place, or something.
Why? Because the machines are trying to save humans, is my speculation. Humans burned the sky, maybe that is true, and the only way to help people from ecological disaster is to put them into the Matrix while the machines try to fix the world. Humans who die in the Matrix need to go away, for continuity purposes, but it isn't going to actually kill them; you don't die in real life if ghost monsters catch Pac-Man, after all. So they get shuffled to Heaven or Wisconsin, or whatever.
I'm much more likely to take a Doylist approach and say "no, it's not another layer, it's just a mistake and/or the story they wanted to tell, whether or not it makes sense by the cold light of day."
If you want to call that "bullshit", fine. I just shrug and note that no one - not you, not me, and not the Wachowskis - is perfect. If perfection is what you seek, if that's your standard, then you're going to be as disappointed as Smith... or Clu.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
Those are not the only explanations of that. The main one being that neo's implants and specifically designed brain are able to see the machines without his own eyes. It doesn't mean he's in the matrix.
An assertion that has zero basis in the actual world or plot.
It is presented as a real-world miracle; miracles without explanation are not the province of sci-fi; that is fantasy.
Incidentally, my explanation also fixes the people-as-batteries problem: they're not. Skynet or whatever cooked up a scenario where the machines were doing some moustache-twirlingly evil shit on one level, so that people dissatisfied with the carpet store can take themselves off the grid.
They are still in the Matrix, just a different area. I imagine that anyone who dies from unnatural causes also wakes up in a new sim, or maybe The Good Place, or something.
Why? Because the machines are trying to save humans, is my speculation. Humans burned the sky, maybe that is true, and the only way to help people from ecological disaster is to put them into the Matrix while the machines try to fix the world. Humans who die in the Matrix need to go away, for continuity purposes, but it isn't going to actually kill them; you don't die in real life if ghost monsters catch Pac-Man, after all. So they get shuffled to Heaven or Wisconsin, or whatever.
Except the movie actually supports the idea that his brain is connected to the Matrix (ie - the beginning of the third movie) and your entire explanation is pulled from your butt, to the point where you are discarding things the movie actually tells you are true in order to make your theory work (always a bad idea).
The matrix movies do not deal in subtlety, at all. If their aim was to have a second larger matrix, they would hit you over the head with it.
It's not science fiction, it's much much more fantasy and like... philosophical parable. Neo can see the machines/the matrix outside the matrix because he reaches true enlightenment. They throw in techno babble about his connection etc but the real reason is that he pushes his Enlightenment to the Max and saves everyone.
I mean, it's not helped by the sequels being very bad movies.
I'm much more likely to take a Doylist approach and say "no, it's not another layer, it's just a mistake and/or the story they wanted to tell, whether or not it makes sense by the cold light of day."
If you want to call that "bullshit", fine. I just shrug and note that no one - not you, not me, and not the Wachowskis - is perfect. If perfection is what you seek, if that's your standard, then you're going to be as disappointed as Smith... or Clu.
I don't demand perfection, but I do reserve the right to point out things that don't make sense, and to come up with a fanwank that is better than what was actually presented. The Matrix sequels weren't very good; I'm a little baffled that anyone feels the need to go to bat for their silly-ass plot.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
Those are not the only explanations of that. The main one being that neo's implants and specifically designed brain are able to see the machines without his own eyes. It doesn't mean he's in the matrix.
An assertion that has zero basis in the actual world or plot.
It is presented as a real-world miracle; miracles without explanation are not the province of sci-fi; that is fantasy.
Incidentally, my explanation also fixes the people-as-batteries problem: they're not. Skynet or whatever cooked up a scenario where the machines were doing some moustache-twirlingly evil shit on one level, so that people dissatisfied with the carpet store can take themselves off the grid.
They are still in the Matrix, just a different area. I imagine that anyone who dies from unnatural causes also wakes up in a new sim, or maybe The Good Place, or something.
Why? Because the machines are trying to save humans, is my speculation. Humans burned the sky, maybe that is true, and the only way to help people from ecological disaster is to put them into the Matrix while the machines try to fix the world. Humans who die in the Matrix need to go away, for continuity purposes, but it isn't going to actually kill them; you don't die in real life if ghost monsters catch Pac-Man, after all. So they get shuffled to Heaven or Wisconsin, or whatever.
Except the movie actually supports the idea that his brain is connected to the Matrix (ie - the beginning of the first movie) and your entire explanation is pulled from your butt, to the point where you are discarding things the movie actually tells you are true in order to make your theory work (always a bad idea).
I admit that it has been several years since I saw the movies, but I don't recall anything stating that Neo had non-standard wi-fi Matrix connections.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
Those are not the only explanations of that. The main one being that neo's implants and specifically designed brain are able to see the machines without his own eyes. It doesn't mean he's in the matrix.
An assertion that has zero basis in the actual world or plot.
It is presented as a real-world miracle; miracles without explanation are not the province of sci-fi; that is fantasy.
Incidentally, my explanation also fixes the people-as-batteries problem: they're not. Skynet or whatever cooked up a scenario where the machines were doing some moustache-twirlingly evil shit on one level, so that people dissatisfied with the carpet store can take themselves off the grid.
They are still in the Matrix, just a different area. I imagine that anyone who dies from unnatural causes also wakes up in a new sim, or maybe The Good Place, or something.
Why? Because the machines are trying to save humans, is my speculation. Humans burned the sky, maybe that is true, and the only way to help people from ecological disaster is to put them into the Matrix while the machines try to fix the world. Humans who die in the Matrix need to go away, for continuity purposes, but it isn't going to actually kill them; you don't die in real life if ghost monsters catch Pac-Man, after all. So they get shuffled to Heaven or Wisconsin, or whatever.
Except the movie actually supports the idea that his brain is connected to the Matrix (ie - the beginning of the first movie) and your entire explanation is pulled from your butt, to the point where you are discarding things the movie actually tells you are true in order to make your theory work (always a bad idea).
I admit that it has been several years since I saw the movies, but I don't recall anything stating that Neo had non-standard wi-fi Matrix connections.
Can you cite a quote for that?
From the beginning of Revolutions:
Neo and Bane lie unconscious in the medical bay of the ship Hammer. Meanwhile, Neo finds his digital self trapped in a virtual subway station—named, "Mobil Ave.", "mobil", being an anagram for "limbo"—a transition zone between the Matrix and the Machine City. In that subway station, he meets a "family" of programs, including a girl named Sati, whose father tells Neo the subway is controlled by the Trainman, an exiled program loyal to the Merovingian. When Neo tries to board a train with the family, the Trainman refuses and overpowers him.
Seraph contacts Morpheus and Trinity on behalf of the Oracle, who informs them of Neo's confinement. Seraph, Morpheus and Trinity enter Club Hel, where they confront the Merovingian and force him to release Neo.
Like, that's what is happening here. He is trapped inside the Matrix and he sure didn't jack himself in to get there.
Which reminds me: what do people here think of Speed Racer? I seem to remember that it baffled critics at the time, but there are some who are very vocal in their defense of the movie.
The SE++ movie thread is overwhelmingly positive about Speed Racer.
Which just goes to show that they cannot be trusted
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
Those are not the only explanations of that. The main one being that neo's implants and specifically designed brain are able to see the machines without his own eyes. It doesn't mean he's in the matrix.
An assertion that has zero basis in the actual world or plot.
It is presented as a real-world miracle; miracles without explanation are not the province of sci-fi; that is fantasy.
Incidentally, my explanation also fixes the people-as-batteries problem: they're not. Skynet or whatever cooked up a scenario where the machines were doing some moustache-twirlingly evil shit on one level, so that people dissatisfied with the carpet store can take themselves off the grid.
They are still in the Matrix, just a different area. I imagine that anyone who dies from unnatural causes also wakes up in a new sim, or maybe The Good Place, or something.
Why? Because the machines are trying to save humans, is my speculation. Humans burned the sky, maybe that is true, and the only way to help people from ecological disaster is to put them into the Matrix while the machines try to fix the world. Humans who die in the Matrix need to go away, for continuity purposes, but it isn't going to actually kill them; you don't die in real life if ghost monsters catch Pac-Man, after all. So they get shuffled to Heaven or Wisconsin, or whatever.
Except the movie actually supports the idea that his brain is connected to the Matrix (ie - the beginning of the first movie) and your entire explanation is pulled from your butt, to the point where you are discarding things the movie actually tells you are true in order to make your theory work (always a bad idea).
I admit that it has been several years since I saw the movies, but I don't recall anything stating that Neo had non-standard wi-fi Matrix connections.
Can you cite a quote for that?
From the beginning of Revolutions:
Neo and Bane lie unconscious in the medical bay of the ship Hammer. Meanwhile, Neo finds his digital self trapped in a virtual subway station—named, "Mobil Ave.", "mobil", being an anagram for "limbo"—a transition zone between the Matrix and the Machine City. In that subway station, he meets a "family" of programs, including a girl named Sati, whose father tells Neo the subway is controlled by the Trainman, an exiled program loyal to the Merovingian. When Neo tries to board a train with the family, the Trainman refuses and overpowers him.
Seraph contacts Morpheus and Trinity on behalf of the Oracle, who informs them of Neo's confinement. Seraph, Morpheus and Trinity enter Club Hel, where they confront the Merovingian and force him to release Neo.
Like, that's what is happening here. He is trapped inside the Matrix and he sure didn't jack himself in to get there.
That is not what I asked. I asked if there is any explanation of Neo's special wi-fi, like a science reason that he is able to do that. Otherwise you're just reinforcing my point.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
Those are not the only explanations of that. The main one being that neo's implants and specifically designed brain are able to see the machines without his own eyes. It doesn't mean he's in the matrix.
An assertion that has zero basis in the actual world or plot.
It is presented as a real-world miracle; miracles without explanation are not the province of sci-fi; that is fantasy.
Incidentally, my explanation also fixes the people-as-batteries problem: they're not. Skynet or whatever cooked up a scenario where the machines were doing some moustache-twirlingly evil shit on one level, so that people dissatisfied with the carpet store can take themselves off the grid.
They are still in the Matrix, just a different area. I imagine that anyone who dies from unnatural causes also wakes up in a new sim, or maybe The Good Place, or something.
Why? Because the machines are trying to save humans, is my speculation. Humans burned the sky, maybe that is true, and the only way to help people from ecological disaster is to put them into the Matrix while the machines try to fix the world. Humans who die in the Matrix need to go away, for continuity purposes, but it isn't going to actually kill them; you don't die in real life if ghost monsters catch Pac-Man, after all. So they get shuffled to Heaven or Wisconsin, or whatever.
Except the movie actually supports the idea that his brain is connected to the Matrix (ie - the beginning of the first movie) and your entire explanation is pulled from your butt, to the point where you are discarding things the movie actually tells you are true in order to make your theory work (always a bad idea).
I admit that it has been several years since I saw the movies, but I don't recall anything stating that Neo had non-standard wi-fi Matrix connections.
Can you cite a quote for that?
From the beginning of Revolutions:
Neo and Bane lie unconscious in the medical bay of the ship Hammer. Meanwhile, Neo finds his digital self trapped in a virtual subway station—named, "Mobil Ave.", "mobil", being an anagram for "limbo"—a transition zone between the Matrix and the Machine City. In that subway station, he meets a "family" of programs, including a girl named Sati, whose father tells Neo the subway is controlled by the Trainman, an exiled program loyal to the Merovingian. When Neo tries to board a train with the family, the Trainman refuses and overpowers him.
Seraph contacts Morpheus and Trinity on behalf of the Oracle, who informs them of Neo's confinement. Seraph, Morpheus and Trinity enter Club Hel, where they confront the Merovingian and force him to release Neo.
Like, that's what is happening here. He is trapped inside the Matrix and he sure didn't jack himself in to get there.
That is not what I asked. I asked if there is any explanation of Neo's special wi-fi, like a science reason that he is able to do that. Otherwise you're just reinforcing my point.
If we gotta return to the matrix with an update for nowadays, it'll be the machines and humans teaming up to defeat the trolls who got a hold of the controls.
One of my big objections to a Matrix reboot is that I doubt they think audiences are now smart enough to grasp the original "human brains as Beowulf cluster" idea, so we're probably just going with the thermodynamically-impossible "batteries" thing again.
And if they're not going to fix that, then why bother?
(I know, I know, to make more money.)
I think I'll never get this, at least not if it goes beyond a pet peeve. Thermodynamics, shmermodynamics. As a metaphor the battery is great, especially in terms of how Morpheus' speech is structured. It's not like The Matrix is a great example of hard sci-fi apart from that bit, is it?
I prefer the idea of the Matrix being powered by human brains. Both in the Sci-Fi perspective of it explains how Neo's powers work (free your mind), and the thematic elements of us basically being willing prisoners, tying in the Smith's anecdote about the earlier utopia matrix failing.
It also makes the relationship between humans and AI a lot more complex, because it goes beyond just the AI developing nuclear power and then killing us all.
No idea if it would make it a better movie or not, but it's fun to think of these things.
The problem with any soft reboot of The Matrix is that the ending of the third movie reveals, intentionally or not, that none of them ever left the Matrix at all. Unless they address that massive plot hole, I can't take anything short of a full reboot seriously... and a full reboot that tries to replicate the first movie and actors/characters will almost certainly fail.
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
In the "real" world, Neo is blinded and his jack is fried. Then, to save the day, he starts magically seeing Matrix code. There are only two explanations for this: 1. He is still in the Matrix and the "real" world is just another layer, designed to satisfy people who feel like they need to follow the white rabbit, or 2. It is actual magic and nothing they spent three movies building up to means anything.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
Those are not the only explanations of that. The main one being that neo's implants and specifically designed brain are able to see the machines without his own eyes. It doesn't mean he's in the matrix.
An assertion that has zero basis in the actual world or plot.
It is presented as a real-world miracle; miracles without explanation are not the province of sci-fi; that is fantasy.
Incidentally, my explanation also fixes the people-as-batteries problem: they're not. Skynet or whatever cooked up a scenario where the machines were doing some moustache-twirlingly evil shit on one level, so that people dissatisfied with the carpet store can take themselves off the grid.
They are still in the Matrix, just a different area. I imagine that anyone who dies from unnatural causes also wakes up in a new sim, or maybe The Good Place, or something.
Why? Because the machines are trying to save humans, is my speculation. Humans burned the sky, maybe that is true, and the only way to help people from ecological disaster is to put them into the Matrix while the machines try to fix the world. Humans who die in the Matrix need to go away, for continuity purposes, but it isn't going to actually kill them; you don't die in real life if ghost monsters catch Pac-Man, after all. So they get shuffled to Heaven or Wisconsin, or whatever.
Except the movie actually supports the idea that his brain is connected to the Matrix (ie - the beginning of the first movie) and your entire explanation is pulled from your butt, to the point where you are discarding things the movie actually tells you are true in order to make your theory work (always a bad idea).
I admit that it has been several years since I saw the movies, but I don't recall anything stating that Neo had non-standard wi-fi Matrix connections.
Can you cite a quote for that?
From the beginning of Revolutions:
Neo and Bane lie unconscious in the medical bay of the ship Hammer. Meanwhile, Neo finds his digital self trapped in a virtual subway station—named, "Mobil Ave.", "mobil", being an anagram for "limbo"—a transition zone between the Matrix and the Machine City. In that subway station, he meets a "family" of programs, including a girl named Sati, whose father tells Neo the subway is controlled by the Trainman, an exiled program loyal to the Merovingian. When Neo tries to board a train with the family, the Trainman refuses and overpowers him.
Seraph contacts Morpheus and Trinity on behalf of the Oracle, who informs them of Neo's confinement. Seraph, Morpheus and Trinity enter Club Hel, where they confront the Merovingian and force him to release Neo.
Like, that's what is happening here. He is trapped inside the Matrix and he sure didn't jack himself in to get there.
That is not what I asked. I asked if there is any explanation of Neo's special wi-fi, like a science reason that he is able to do that. Otherwise you're just reinforcing my point.
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It's a battle of King Ralph vs Beethoven
You definitely need to be in the right mindset, the movie is overwhelmingly earnest and needs you to be invested in a way that you usually aren't in this sort of movie.
This is a spoiler for the movie's themes and some of the way it gets its hooks in you emotionally
That's the thing - he's a great supporting actor. As a lead, he tends to fall flat, but in a supporting role or part of an ensemble, he shines.
To sum up:
Spoiler warning: This IS the end of the movie. And it's one of the most awesome things ever put on film.
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@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Which just goes to show that they cannot be trusted
that's not what it revealed. It revealed that humans escaping the matrix was part of their plan and had happened in cycles. Neo breaks that cycle and people are allowed to leave if they want and there is a tenuous peace between the machines and humanity.
Those that view the movie this way are obviously still stuck in the Matrix. You gotta, like, free your mind man!
Well it is the nerdiest thread on the forums after all!
No, it doesn't, not at all.
1. is an interesting idea, but a soft reboot would need to sell that shit hard not to lose people. 2. is just bullshit.
His role in Barton Fink still gives me the chills.
Poppin' in here because The Matrix was one of my obsessions in high school (all three of 'em), and I'll be damned if all that useless knowledge I absorbed goes to waste... but yes, humanity was given the choice to leave, but it's still all within the confines of the simulation, albeit just a less oppressive one for both the Matrix world and "real world" Zion (The Megacity world ditches it's green tones for technicolor). The fact that Smith could still take over bodies and Neo could still see via the Matrix code while in Zion was proof of this. I could be wrong, but then my childhood would be for naught.
Those are not the only explanations of that. The main one being that neo's implants and specifically designed brain are able to see the machines without his own eyes. It doesn't mean he's in the matrix.
He can take over people hat have implants in their brains.
I believe the technobabble explanation for that was...
Yes correct.
Or there's the third explanation which is the one the film actually gives.
I mean, it's weird and kinda silly but it's not at all what you are claiming the explanation is.
No, the choice is between accepting the simulation or not. The whole reason people like Neo and Trinity and such exist is because some percentage of humans simply refuse to accept simulation as real and their brains rebel against it. It's why everything feels wrong to them.
Reboot the whole thing, I'll take better notes this time around....
Frankly, it's still the only explanation that made any sense for that weird ass bit at the end of Reloaded.
But it's not the explanation the 3rd film actually gives.
An assertion that has zero basis in the actual world or plot.
It is presented as a real-world miracle; miracles without explanation are not the province of sci-fi; that is fantasy.
Incidentally, my explanation also fixes the people-as-batteries problem: they're not. Skynet or whatever cooked up a scenario where the machines were doing some moustache-twirlingly evil shit on one level, so that people dissatisfied with the carpet store can take themselves off the grid.
They are still in the Matrix, just a different area. I imagine that anyone who dies from unnatural causes also wakes up in a new sim, or maybe The Good Place, or something.
Why? Because the machines are trying to save humans, is my speculation. Humans burned the sky, maybe that is true, and the only way to help people from ecological disaster is to put them into the Matrix while the machines try to fix the world. Humans who die in the Matrix need to go away, for continuity purposes, but it isn't going to actually kill them; you don't die in real life if ghost monsters catch Pac-Man, after all. So they get shuffled to Heaven or Wisconsin, or whatever.
If you want to call that "bullshit", fine. I just shrug and note that no one - not you, not me, and not the Wachowskis - is perfect. If perfection is what you seek, if that's your standard, then you're going to be as disappointed as Smith... or Clu.
Except the movie actually supports the idea that his brain is connected to the Matrix (ie - the beginning of the third movie) and your entire explanation is pulled from your butt, to the point where you are discarding things the movie actually tells you are true in order to make your theory work (always a bad idea).
It's not science fiction, it's much much more fantasy and like... philosophical parable. Neo can see the machines/the matrix outside the matrix because he reaches true enlightenment. They throw in techno babble about his connection etc but the real reason is that he pushes his Enlightenment to the Max and saves everyone.
I mean, it's not helped by the sequels being very bad movies.
I don't demand perfection, but I do reserve the right to point out things that don't make sense, and to come up with a fanwank that is better than what was actually presented. The Matrix sequels weren't very good; I'm a little baffled that anyone feels the need to go to bat for their silly-ass plot.
I admit that it has been several years since I saw the movies, but I don't recall anything stating that Neo had non-standard wi-fi Matrix connections.
Can you cite a quote for that?
From the beginning of Revolutions:
Like, that's what is happening here. He is trapped inside the Matrix and he sure didn't jack himself in to get there.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
The film, not the forumer.
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That is not what I asked. I asked if there is any explanation of Neo's special wi-fi, like a science reason that he is able to do that. Otherwise you're just reinforcing my point.
Was wi-fi even a thing then?
So many dickbutts
There's a reason he's the first mother fucking avenger!
pleasepaypreacher.net
I prefer the idea of the Matrix being powered by human brains. Both in the Sci-Fi perspective of it explains how Neo's powers work (free your mind), and the thematic elements of us basically being willing prisoners, tying in the Smith's anecdote about the earlier utopia matrix failing.
It also makes the relationship between humans and AI a lot more complex, because it goes beyond just the AI developing nuclear power and then killing us all.
No idea if it would make it a better movie or not, but it's fun to think of these things.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Not as we know it, but the concept has existed forever. Cell phones have been around since the 80s.
Yeah, the WRT54G game out in 2002.