the argument that these things will incur very significant cost to society at large is one thing, but the main thing is, they're fun things that kill people some disincentives are in order
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
I don't know what the taxes are in the US but I suspect things like cigarettes have significant "sin" tax in most places. Smokers still buy them legally for the most part because you can buy them everywhere.
Not a good comparison because cigarettes are an established market selling a product that has never been illegal.
it's a bad comparison for trying to judge what's going on right now, but it's a good comparison because there is no reason for marijuana to be treated differently than tobacco
Which is to say that marijuana should be treated as tobacco is treated today, not that tobacco should be treated as it is treated today or that marijuana should be treated the way tobacco should be treated
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YamiNoSenshiA point called ZIn the complex planeRegistered Userregular
I loved Far Cry 3, but I had no interest in 4 or Primal. I was like, "No, I have been sated on this for a good long while. I do not need more."
Pot will remain popular even if legalized. In fact it will grow as more people will realize its benefits for pain relief etc. It is a pretty safe high and usually enjoyable.
it would also get cheaper absent special taxes
partly because being illegal obviously raises costs quite a bunch, also because serious farming on serious scales beats the shit out of any weed growing operation you could possibly hide
Yeah it will get taxed to all hell heh. Here in WA the prices have dropped tremendously for selling of pot. But with the rates so low and taxing so high from the state gov people just buy from dealers still. At least around here.
I predicted this a couple years ago. Criminals who were facing federal jail time will not be deterred by tax evasion!
You need low taxes and light regulation to bring them out of the shadows and legitimize business.
if you get lots of revenue and lots of drug dealers from taxing it, i'm not sure that's worse than not very much revenue and not very many drug dealers
The goal of government regulation is not to create profit centers for the State!
Far Cry 4 was interesting to start out, but ultimately its an ubisoft open world game. Collect some shit, level up, kill some guys. Its really just so formulaic I can't see ever buying one of their games at full price.
I mostly buy them to snipe fools with arrows and wipe out enemy camps with just melee. It becomes more of a lethal puzzle that way.
Also, fighting the indigenous wildlife.
The co-op mode in Far Cry 4 was pretty awesome. They have a two man helicopter, which you can use the grappling hook to climb onto while it's in mid-flight. Best way of capturing towers, by far. One of my friends managed to snipe a sniper with a bow at an insane distance from the back of the helicopter.
I don't know what the taxes are in the US but I suspect things like cigarettes have significant "sin" tax in most places. Smokers still buy them legally for the most part because you can buy them everywhere.
Not a good comparison because cigarettes are an established market selling a product that has never been illegal.
I think it works for alcohol too. Granted the southern half of sweden buy their stuff in germany or denmark so sure, grey market definitely exist.
But a lot the problems are probably temporary, a couple of decades from now the legal stores will feel a lot more like the obvious choice.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
the argument that these things will incur very significant cost to society at large is one thing, but the main thing is, they're fun things that kill people some disincentives are in order
I am super in favor of sin taxes. It should be expensive to kill yourself. I also think we should put a tax on bullets too, it should be expensive to kill animals and other people as well.
I think all sales taxes are dumb, at least on anything that costs less than like, a car
I don't agree that they, or the various regulations that exist, are killing the weed industry tho
i thought last time i researched it most liberal economists preferred (progressive) sales taxes to other taxes like income tax
what even is a progressive sales tax
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
Pot will remain popular even if legalized. In fact it will grow as more people will realize its benefits for pain relief etc. It is a pretty safe high and usually enjoyable.
it would also get cheaper absent special taxes
partly because being illegal obviously raises costs quite a bunch, also because serious farming on serious scales beats the shit out of any weed growing operation you could possibly hide
Yeah it will get taxed to all hell heh. Here in WA the prices have dropped tremendously for selling of pot. But with the rates so low and taxing so high from the state gov people just buy from dealers still. At least around here.
I predicted this a couple years ago. Criminals who were facing federal jail time will not be deterred by tax evasion!
You need low taxes and light regulation to bring them out of the shadows and legitimize business.
if you get lots of revenue and lots of drug dealers from taxing it, i'm not sure that's worse than not very much revenue and not very many drug dealers
The goal of government regulation is not to create profit centers for the State!
Well we have sin taxes because as a society we decided fuck regular taxes but it's ok to tax things we view as "bad"
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
I have no problem with sin taxes on certain goods that are used in accordance with the overall increased cost of care and such the action involved puts on the public structures.
Go ahead and do your thing, just realize you will pay the real cost including the cost based on you risk at use of additional resources.
I think all sales taxes are dumb, at least on anything that costs less than like, a car
I don't agree that they, or the various regulations that exist, are killing the weed industry tho
i thought last time i researched it most liberal economists preferred (progressive) sales taxes to other taxes like income tax
Really? Like, the amount taxed increases as the price of the good or service increases? That seems really hard to sell to people even if they get to keep their entire income.
alright so what we're saying is that we need to make taxes really low on legal weed temporarily, wait until all the black market weed is snuffed out and everyone is buying it legally, then slowly start raising taxes on weed like you're slowly raising the temp of a pot of water with a frog
Pot will remain popular even if legalized. In fact it will grow as more people will realize its benefits for pain relief etc. It is a pretty safe high and usually enjoyable.
it would also get cheaper absent special taxes
partly because being illegal obviously raises costs quite a bunch, also because serious farming on serious scales beats the shit out of any weed growing operation you could possibly hide
Yeah it will get taxed to all hell heh. Here in WA the prices have dropped tremendously for selling of pot. But with the rates so low and taxing so high from the state gov people just buy from dealers still. At least around here.
I predicted this a couple years ago. Criminals who were facing federal jail time will not be deterred by tax evasion!
You need low taxes and light regulation to bring them out of the shadows and legitimize business.
despite the the old school stoners still going to their dealers legal shops are doing big business here
you're in a relatively rural area though, right?
People within the industry have been pointing this out for like ten years in medical states: some customers go the convenient store route and many will continue to go black market for price reasons.
Going recreational vs medical doesn't change the math in any real way.
The more stores there are the more convenient it gets though, so the math does change in that respect.
I just think it would have to be like, gas station or Starbucks prevalent to hugely change the customer logistics vs. the faux-medical angle thus far.
The other key thing I think is that regardless of the specific intermediary steps, the line between black market / medical / reacrstional is blurry to nonexistent. The real pot market is a mish mash of products moving back and forth across those lines. I would wager that's also not going to change until it is seriously entrenched at near-alcohol levels, at which point a lot of the mom and pops are probably already being pushed out by bigger businesses.
It would be nice to see a sort of post-craft beer mentality of regulation nurturing independent businesses rather than the "IT'S ILLEGAL YOU'LL ROT IN PRISON wait hang on just became legal line right up for Anheuser-Phillip Morris-InBev Weed Lite lol" that a lot of people expect to see happen.
In WA the lines are pretty hard.
They merged the medical stores into the recreational because they were a shitty grey market like you said.
Good for them
In California it is a fucking mess
Same eco disaster outdoor grows up north, same McMansion duplex house indoor grows down here, actual leaf and all the finished barcoded cutesy packaged finished goods alike go back and forth across the lines
All the medical shatter and stuff seems sketchy as heck to me but idk
Craft beer the market now
On the one hand, 'yes oh my god please bring this into legality so bros will stop smoking sketchy extracts'
on the other hand, 'does anyone need to be dabbing hash oil? really?'
alright so what we're saying is that we need to make taxes really low on legal weed temporarily, wait until all the black market weed is snuffed out and everyone is buying it legally, then slowly start raising taxes on weed like you're slowly raising the temp of a pot of water with a frog
Except in this analogy the frog is, like really baked, man
You go in the cage, cage goes in the water, you go in the water. Shark's in the water, our shark.
You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
our state is already half farmland dude
and even then, if they can grow it cheaper in AL having less regulation isn't going to stop them from flooding out markets
as it is now if you're selling weed in the state it needs to be grown in the state
Aioua on
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
What's stopping RJ Reynolds from winning in that situation too? A rising tide of loosened regs or no taxation lifts all boats, and then RJ beats you with an established logistics network and start up capital
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
I think all sales taxes are dumb, at least on anything that costs less than like, a car
I don't agree that they, or the various regulations that exist, are killing the weed industry tho
i thought last time i researched it most liberal economists preferred (progressive) sales taxes to other taxes like income tax
Really? Like, the amount taxed increases as the price of the good or service increases? That seems really hard to sell to people even if they get to keep their entire income.
I think it's like VAT refunds where you get the money back later, enabling a system like income tax where you don't have to pay the first twenty grand or whatever?
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
alright so what we're saying is that we need to make taxes really low on legal weed temporarily, wait until all the black market weed is snuffed out and everyone is buying it legally, then slowly start raising taxes on weed like you're slowly raising the temp of a pot of water with a frog
and then they're hooked
we have the marlboro man but instead of a cowboy he's a sanfran techie riding the steel horse of bart caping in his open office gentrifying the city
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
alright so what we're saying is that we need to make taxes really low on legal weed temporarily, wait until all the black market weed is snuffed out and everyone is buying it legally, then slowly start raising taxes on weed like you're slowly raising the temp of a pot of water with a frog
Except in this analogy the frog already has a legal place to grow tons of weed and that place probably has a literal back door for the product to leave through
I think all sales taxes are dumb, at least on anything that costs less than like, a car
I don't agree that they, or the various regulations that exist, are killing the weed industry tho
i thought last time i researched it most liberal economists preferred (progressive) sales taxes to other taxes like income tax
Really? Like, the amount taxed increases as the price of the good or service increases? That seems really hard to sell to people even if they get to keep their entire income.
I thought it was more as an alternative to corporate taxes which can turn into a regressive sales tax sometimes.
Sin taxes never bother me but I hardly drink, never smoked anything and so FUCK EVERYONE ELSE MA TAXES!
You know we could just all share the burden and increase the overal sales tax but even leftists run for the hills when it hits their pocket book :P
Eh spreading it to general sales tax fucks more people than just people who want to drink or smoke. Like if we're being real we should go with an income tax, but as it stands I'm fine with sin taxes more so than general sales tax increases.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
Most of East WA are just fields.
A lot of the entire West are just fields.
And weed grows everywhere.
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
I think all sales taxes are dumb, at least on anything that costs less than like, a car
I don't agree that they, or the various regulations that exist, are killing the weed industry tho
i thought last time i researched it most liberal economists preferred (progressive) sales taxes to other taxes like income tax
Really? Like, the amount taxed increases as the price of the good or service increases? That seems really hard to sell to people even if they get to keep their entire income.
no like the amount taxed increases as your annual consumption increases. usually paired with a very hefty standard deduction.
Sir Landshark on
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
Nah you put it as a sales tax. A buck fifty a gram no matter the form, back to the Fed. Trump could fund his wall forever with that. And give a tax cut with the DOJ savings.
You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
so... they should regulate to protect local business against competition?
You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
our state is already half farmland dude
and even then, if they can grow it cheaper in AL having less regulation isn't going to stop them
as it is now if you're selling weed in the state it needs to be grown in the state
Empty farmland... empty...
well emptying. The farms are dying. The orchards are becoming vineyards.
Captain Ultralow resolution pictures of birdsRegistered Userregular
Sin taxes are pretty good, but they really shouldn't form the funding basis of essential programs. You get weird results, where like, I think it was Illinois, where the govenor was urging people to play the lotto to fund their schools.
I think all sales taxes are dumb, at least on anything that costs less than like, a car
I don't agree that they, or the various regulations that exist, are killing the weed industry tho
i thought last time i researched it most liberal economists preferred (progressive) sales taxes to other taxes like income tax
Really? Like, the amount taxed increases as the price of the good or service increases? That seems really hard to sell to people even if they get to keep their entire income.
I think it's like VAT refunds where you get the money back later, enabling a system like income tax where you don't have to pay the first twenty grand or whatever?
That is FairTax, which is not exactly a progressive system. If you're taxing people at the consumption level, it's gonna be at least somewhat regressive pretty much no matter what you do, and stuff like the prebate only mitigates it to an extent.
Just do a progressive income tax!
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
abdhy I think the reason we're bad at it is because half of us think it's a bad goal
You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
our state is already half farmland dude
and even then, if they can grow it cheaper in AL having less regulation isn't going to stop them
as it is now if you're selling weed in the state it needs to be grown in the state
Empty farmland... empty...
well emptying. The farms are dying. The orchards are becoming vineyards.
global warming?
as a stereotypical western washingtoner I don't actually know shit about what's happening across the mountains
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Posts
I mean for stuff like alcohol and cigarettes
the argument that these things will incur very significant cost to society at large is one thing, but the main thing is, they're fun things that kill people some disincentives are in order
Which is to say that marijuana should be treated as tobacco is treated today, not that tobacco should be treated as it is treated today or that marijuana should be treated the way tobacco should be treated
As a state-run liquor store monopoly,
You know we could just all share the burden and increase the overal sales tax but even leftists run for the hills when it hits their pocket book :P
Also, fighting the indigenous wildlife.
The co-op mode in Far Cry 4 was pretty awesome. They have a two man helicopter, which you can use the grappling hook to climb onto while it's in mid-flight. Best way of capturing towers, by far.
Oh I never said killing the industry. The industry will thrive regardless of sin taxes. Just that it creates those other pockets too.
i thought last time i researched it most liberal economists preferred (progressive) sales taxes to other taxes like income tax
I think it works for alcohol too. Granted the southern half of sweden buy their stuff in germany or denmark so sure, grey market definitely exist.
But a lot the problems are probably temporary, a couple of decades from now the legal stores will feel a lot more like the obvious choice.
OW thinks if you are in a group you must be good
we weren't that good and his placement was lower than mine so neither were our teammates
what even is a progressive sales tax
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...
Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.
i play 95% of my games with porp
has she been holding me back all this time
Well we have sin taxes because as a society we decided fuck regular taxes but it's ok to tax things we view as "bad"
Allowing a certain amount of sales tax to be refunded based on income?
I don't know the answer to that.
Go ahead and do your thing, just realize you will pay the real cost including the cost based on you risk at use of additional resources.
Really? Like, the amount taxed increases as the price of the good or service increases? That seems really hard to sell to people even if they get to keep their entire income.
On the one hand, 'yes oh my god please bring this into legality so bros will stop smoking sketchy extracts'
on the other hand, 'does anyone need to be dabbing hash oil? really?'
Except in this analogy the frog is, like really baked, man
our state is already half farmland dude
and even then, if they can grow it cheaper in AL having less regulation isn't going to stop them from flooding out markets
as it is now if you're selling weed in the state it needs to be grown in the state
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
What's stopping RJ Reynolds from winning in that situation too? A rising tide of loosened regs or no taxation lifts all boats, and then RJ beats you with an established logistics network and start up capital
I think it's like VAT refunds where you get the money back later, enabling a system like income tax where you don't have to pay the first twenty grand or whatever?
and then they're hooked
we have the marlboro man but instead of a cowboy he's a sanfran techie riding the steel horse of bart caping in his open office gentrifying the city
i guess i should have said progressive consumption tax but it's mostly the same idea
I thought it was more as an alternative to corporate taxes which can turn into a regressive sales tax sometimes.
Definitely could be wrong about that.
Eh spreading it to general sales tax fucks more people than just people who want to drink or smoke. Like if we're being real we should go with an income tax, but as it stands I'm fine with sin taxes more so than general sales tax increases.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Most of East WA are just fields.
A lot of the entire West are just fields.
And weed grows everywhere.
no like the amount taxed increases as your annual consumption increases. usually paired with a very hefty standard deduction.
so... they should regulate to protect local business against competition?
Empty farmland... empty...
well emptying. The farms are dying. The orchards are becoming vineyards.
Get on my level, economics
That is FairTax, which is not exactly a progressive system. If you're taxing people at the consumption level, it's gonna be at least somewhat regressive pretty much no matter what you do, and stuff like the prebate only mitigates it to an extent.
Just do a progressive income tax!
global warming?
as a stereotypical western washingtoner I don't actually know shit about what's happening across the mountains
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies