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  • TTODewbackTTODewback Puts the drawl in ya'll I think I'm in HellRegistered User regular
    sales tax in montgomery is 10% so its really easy to calculate.

    Bless your heart.
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Aioua wrote: »
    you could do a progressive income tax if like

    you had a cashless society and all transactions are tracked centrally by the government so at point of sale it determines your rate based on your current spend for the year

    but uh... people tend to not like the idea of the government tracking all transactions
    You get a letter from the IRS.
    "You bought a buttplug recently, would you be interested in another buttplug?"

    Happiness is within reach!
  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    I hate sales tax because it isn't included in the price.

    Everything costs 15% more than it actually does. Fuck you! Make companies include that in the price if you're going to implement that tax!
    Shit where do you live?

    Even in LA the sales tax is 10%.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.

    Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...

    Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.

    What's stopping RJ Reynolds from winning in that situation too? A rising tide of loosened regs or no taxation lifts all boats, and then RJ beats you with an established logistics network and start up capital

    There's a window before national players can get into the game because they expose themselves to federal attention. Right now, regional industry can get a foothold that will translate into mindshare, goodwill, and market positioning they can use to fight off the behemoths once federal laws disappear. It's to the State's advantage right now to leave as much profit in the industry as it can, so the companies are resilient when the major players do arrive.

    What you've got now is a situation where the State takes their cash like a hedge fund extracting the profit out of a business before letting it collapse. Long-term sustainability of an industry is not on their radar. They're vulture capitalists!

  • VanguardVanguard But now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    TTODewback wrote: »
    sales tax in montgomery is 10% so its really easy to calculate.

    i just round to 10 for ease of calculation anyway

  • descdesc Goretexing to death Registered User regular
    Vanguard wrote: »
    desc wrote: »
    wandering wrote: »
    alright so what we're saying is that we need to make taxes really low on legal weed temporarily, wait until all the black market weed is snuffed out and everyone is buying it legally, then slowly start raising taxes on weed like you're slowly raising the temp of a pot of water with a frog

    Except in this analogy the frog is, like really baked, man

    Rest In Peace Pepe ;_;

    but who bakes a pot of water to make it boil?

    y'all are high

    Yes

    We're high and poor because we've been taxed into stoner poverty by the greedy state

  • wanderingwandering Russia state-affiliated media Registered User regular
    When I went on my trip the other week I literally pulled into the parking space at the airport 20 minutes before scheduled departure

    The ticket said the doors to the plane closed 15 minutes prior to departure

    (I got in)

    :cool:

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Gooey wrote: »
    I hate sales tax because it isn't included in the price.

    Everything costs 15% more than it actually does. Fuck you! Make companies include that in the price if you're going to implement that tax!

    or em

    stay with me

    it could also be that taxes are theft

    I remember when I first read this argument as a vulnerable adolescent and the membranes of my mind opened to an intoxicating new dimension and I teetered on the precipice of libertarianism

    It felt so true; the knowledge that this system was essentially arbitrary and implemented by force was the kind of endorphin hit that I imagine conspiracy theorists get when they read a new, more sweeping theory

  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    TTODewback wrote: »
    sales tax in montgomery is 10% so its really easy to calculate.

    8.25% here

    919UOwT.png
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Aioua wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Aioua wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.

    Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...

    Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.

    our state is already half farmland dude

    and even then, if they can grow it cheaper in AL having less regulation isn't going to stop them

    as it is now if you're selling weed in the state it needs to be grown in the state

    Empty farmland... empty...

    well emptying. The farms are dying. The orchards are becoming vineyards.

    global warming?

    as a stereotypical western washingtoner I don't actually know shit about what's happening across the mountains

    Nah the area could become an agricultural powerhouse. Just the margins are so low, the regs were growing and getting expensive and the importing of goods was eating into the industry.

    On a grossly basic front.

    is there much of a point to being an agricultural powerhouse if the margins are super low?

    the food industry always struck me as a welfare one, generally supported by government subsidy
    (which is fine, people need to eat food being cheap is a benefit to the populace)

    I guess you get jobs but farming is pretty heavy on the automation anyway right and then manual jobs are crappy temp work? (and ofc the stereotype is that those jobs are gonna be under the table anyway, dunno how true that is)

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Grab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front door Registered User regular
    Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/07/tax-policy
    Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.

    Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.

    Hmm

    Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    I hate sales tax because it isn't included in the price.

    Everything costs 15% more than it actually does. Fuck you! Make companies include that in the price if you're going to implement that tax!

    this is one of the most perplexing things about the US

    like

    I really don't give a shit right now how much of the price is what. What I am interested in, is this burger. I wish to know how many moneys you would like in return for a burger.

    ftOqU21.png
  • VanguardVanguard But now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.

    Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...

    Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.

    What's stopping RJ Reynolds from winning in that situation too? A rising tide of loosened regs or no taxation lifts all boats, and then RJ beats you with an established logistics network and start up capital

    There's a window before national players can get into the game because they expose themselves to federal attention. Right now, regional industry can get a foothold that will translate into mindshare, goodwill, and market positioning they can use to fight off the behemoths once federal laws disappear. It's to the State's advantage right now to leave as much profit in the industry as it can, so the companies are resilient when the major players do arrive.

    What you've got now is a situation where the State takes their cash like a hedge fund extracting the profit out of a business before letting it collapse. Long-term sustainability of an industry is not on their radar. They're vulture capitalists!

    um

    i'm pretty sure it would be like what is happening with craft beer right now

    a hand full of regional players snatched up by major companies and distributed nationally

  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Aioua wrote: »
    I mean ultimately I agree that sin taxes are dumb

    I think all sales taxes are dumb, at least on anything that costs less than like, a car

    I don't agree that they, or the various regulations that exist, are killing the weed industry tho

    i thought last time i researched it most liberal economists preferred (progressive) sales taxes to other taxes like income tax

    Really? Like, the amount taxed increases as the price of the good or service increases? That seems really hard to sell to people even if they get to keep their entire income.

    I think it's like VAT refunds where you get the money back later, enabling a system like income tax where you don't have to pay the first twenty grand or whatever?

    That is FairTax, which is not exactly a progressive system. If you're taxing people at the consumption level, it's gonna be at least somewhat regressive pretty much no matter what you do, and stuff like the prebate only mitigates it to an extent.

    Just do a progressive income tax!

    no it's not

    here i'll just look up an article instead of trying to explain

    https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/01/23/what-should-tax-reform-in-the-united-states-do/replace-the-income-tax-with-a-progressive-consumption-tax

    I mean the guy's from a conservative institute so I am not sure if this makes your point it's a liberal taxation scheme.

    The issue with the tax as proposed is either that it requires an extremely high tax rate with a rebate, which still hurts the poor, or requires massive effort into determining your consumption rate and has pretty wonky revenue streams; his proposal appears to be the latter. The latter doesn't really screw over people who are worse off as much as a rebate but it seems really, really impractical implementation-wise.

    my point was that it was favored by liberal economists, not that it's a liberal taxation scheme

    turns out it's favored by liberals and conservatives alike!

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular

    Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/07/tax-policy
    Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.

    Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.

    How would that keep us from sliding into neo-feudalism? I didn't read the article but it seems like they're missing the part where the rich horde far more than they consume.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    Time to invest in a good-quality stud finder.

    @Casual Eddy

    I could be convinced to come out of retirement for one last big score

    @jungleroomx

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    I hate sales tax because it isn't included in the price.

    Everything costs 15% more than it actually does. Fuck you! Make companies include that in the price if you're going to implement that tax!
    Shit where do you live?

    Even in LA the sales tax is 10%.

    Canada. We have the general sales tax and the provincial sales tax, which have been combined into the harmonized sales tax, which is the Frenchest possible word for the stupid thing

  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    i would totally be down with paying zero income tax and instead paying out the nose on a VAT or whatever

    would certainly make retirement planning a lot simpler

    919UOwT.png
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/07/tax-policy
    Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.

    Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.

    Hmm

    Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?

    the nuts and bolts seems to be reporting your income and savings every year

    income - savings = consumption

    tax the consumption

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    oh canada does that too? hah.

    ftOqU21.png
  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    desc wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    desc wrote: »
    wandering wrote: »
    alright so what we're saying is that we need to make taxes really low on legal weed temporarily, wait until all the black market weed is snuffed out and everyone is buying it legally, then slowly start raising taxes on weed like you're slowly raising the temp of a pot of water with a frog

    Except in this analogy the frog is, like really baked, man

    Rest In Peace Pepe ;_;

    but who bakes a pot of water to make it boil?

    y'all are high

    Yes

    We're high and poor because we've been taxed into stoner poverty by the greedy state
    And the analogy is busted because if you throw a frog in boiling water it just dies.
    Glenn Beck did it, with predictable results. I believe it was even related to taxes at that.

    zepherin on
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/07/tax-policy
    Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.

    Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.

    Hmm

    Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?
    For the love of God we need to FUCKING REDUCE what's tied to SSNs.

    Happiness is within reach!
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/07/tax-policy
    Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.

    Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.

    How would that keep us from sliding into neo-feudalism? I didn't read the article but it seems like they're missing the part where the rich horde far more than they consume.

    idk im not an economist i just thought this was p interesting when i read it. enough that it was still stuck in my head 5 years later

    Sir Landshark on
    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    All these people assuming I'm American

    I am deeply insulted

  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    Aioua wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Aioua wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Aioua wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    You don't create a new industry by taxing the ever living shit out of it in infancy! That's just a recipe for RJ Reynolds making Marlboro weed cigs and driving all the locals out of business.

    Light regs, low tax, let the industry explode in growth. More jobs, more revenue, new agribusiness, revitalized rural areas...

    Some red state that's mostly fields is going to massacre WA weed business. Alabama Mama Jama or something is going to flood the market and WA will see its revenue crater. Then people will wonder what happened to their industry and never blame themselves.

    our state is already half farmland dude

    and even then, if they can grow it cheaper in AL having less regulation isn't going to stop them

    as it is now if you're selling weed in the state it needs to be grown in the state

    Empty farmland... empty...

    well emptying. The farms are dying. The orchards are becoming vineyards.

    global warming?

    as a stereotypical western washingtoner I don't actually know shit about what's happening across the mountains

    Nah the area could become an agricultural powerhouse. Just the margins are so low, the regs were growing and getting expensive and the importing of goods was eating into the industry.

    On a grossly basic front.

    is there much of a point to being an agricultural powerhouse if the margins are super low?

    the food industry always struck me as a welfare one, generally supported by government subsidy
    (which is fine, people need to eat food being cheap is a benefit to the populace)

    I guess you get jobs but farming is pretty heavy on the automation anyway right and then manual jobs are crappy temp work? (and ofc the stereotype is that those jobs are gonna be under the table anyway, dunno how true that is)

    Oh I just meant potential. Like if shit were to go down in the world we could grow a lot of shit here. The farming margins have been horrible since we moved into a luxury state.

  • VanguardVanguard But now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    like, if weed was legalized tomorrow i imagine every grow operation in a state with legal weed would get an offer from some large conglomerate and the industry would flip from the wild west that it is now to basically be liquor

  • TTODewbackTTODewback Puts the drawl in ya'll I think I'm in HellRegistered User regular
    Gooey wrote: »
    TTODewback wrote: »
    sales tax in montgomery is 10% so its really easy to calculate.

    8.25% here

    it was 8.25% in prattville but the former mayor invested the city in some new construction right before the market collapse and they raised it to 9% or 9.5% to get the city out of crippling debt
    they've already paid back like 80% so i guess its working

    Bless your heart.
  • VanguardVanguard But now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    All these people assuming I'm American

    I am deeply insulted

    do you live in north america

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Vanguard wrote: »
    All these people assuming I'm American

    I am deeply insulted

    do you live in north america

    This is not how the word is used, you psychopath

  • tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    Lol I don't think weed companies even get deductions

    They just straight up pay on their gross

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Gooey wrote: »
    i would totally be down with paying zero income tax and instead paying out the nose on a VAT or whatever

    would certainly make retirement planning a lot simpler

    Yeah but that screws a lot of poorer folks.

    u7stthr17eud.png
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    we have 25% VAT here

    but 15% for food and drink


    as in like, groceries. Eating in a restaurant is 25% VAT. Which is why McDonalds has two prices on everything on the menu, depending on if you sit down there or not. Because one is eating at a restaurant, the other is selling food.

    OsloMcDonaldsMenu.jpg

    ftOqU21.png
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    What if weed was the tax

    Get on my level, economics

    What, you want to switch us to a marijuana backed currency?

    You shall not crucify mankind on a cross of weed!

    What if we burn them at the stake of weed tho

  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Grab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front door Registered User regular
    Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/07/tax-policy
    Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.

    Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.

    Hmm

    Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?

    the nuts and bolts seems to be reporting your income and savings every year

    income - savings = consumption

    tax the consumption

    Huh

    Interesting

    Dunno how to craft it to make it progressive given the
    Coinage wrote: »
    Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/07/tax-policy
    Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.

    Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.

    Hmm

    Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?
    For the love of God we need to FUCKING REDUCE what's tied to SSNs.

    Was trying to think of how to make it progressive

    If they had any sense they'd develop a new secure ssn addition instead of grafting more shit into it, yes

  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    Actually i think this is the article i remember. The Economist is neoliberal ofc but it's talking about policy supported by a economists across a wide range of ideologies

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/07/tax-policy
    Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's good. Don't tax companies in an effort to tax rich people.

    Four: Eliminate all income and payroll taxes. All of them. For everyone. Taxes discourage whatever you're taxing, but we like income, so why tax it? Payroll taxes discourage creating jobs. Not such a good idea. Instead, impose a consumption tax, designed to be progressive to protect lower-income households.

    Hmm

    Report all purchases to the IRS tied to a SSN, bracketed rates for how much you've consumed so far, modified by product type?

    the nuts and bolts seems to be reporting your income and savings every year

    income - savings = consumption

    tax the consumption

    if you got to deduct 100% of your retirement savings that would be nutzo

    i wonder how capital gains would work in a system like that

    919UOwT.png
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Conversely, I would rather pay more income tax (and have wealthier people and organizations pay even more on top of that) and eliminate sales tax altogether

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What's this style of music called?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USNetZvC3tQ

    bad.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know TexasRegistered User regular
    Wait why is the Filet o Fish the only one whose first price is lower?

    FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
    Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    I meant to take the next chat for something, but now I forget what it is.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    All these people assuming I'm American

    I am deeply insulted

    I mean, 'Evil' is right there in your username ...

This discussion has been closed.