I've liked that people have different opinions on what made the film good. I think it might mean that the film has something for everyone.
eg, some people say the film is good but that there wasn't enough Amazons. I say the film was good and that the Amazons could've been cut down a bit. I think it probably depends on how much Xena a person watched.
My gf and I both feel that not having Lucy Lawless and Renee O'Conner show up as cameo Amazons was a missed opportunity.
Hell, Lynda Carter at least.
How rad would that have been if she was Queen of the Amazons? :biggrin:
Automatically assumed he killed Zeus _and_ took his power.
Right; all the gods are dead, and Ares did it - Ares was showing lots of powers that seemed outside of the scope of the god of war; lies and deception are more Apate or Dolos.
Ares can lie and deceive, it's just not officially in his supernatural portfolio aka Discord.
Marvel probably should have gone with a Black Widow movie first. Their most well known female characters are with Fox. Storm, Rogue, and Jean Grey are more popular than Captain Marvel, Wasp, She-Hulk, etc. Black Widow is the one who can compete thanks to her already being in Avengers.
Between Lucy and GitS, I'm not sure that Scarlett is really a compelling lead. Her blank stare needs someone with actual energy to bounce off of.
Marvel probably should have gone with a Black Widow movie first. Their most well known female characters are with Fox. Storm, Rogue, and Jean Grey are more popular than Captain Marvel, Wasp, She-Hulk, etc. Black Widow is the one who can compete thanks to her already being in Avengers.
Between Lucy and GitS, I'm not sure that Scarlett is really a compelling lead. Her blank stare needs someone with actual energy to bounce off of.
Between Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant Man, Marvel's proved that it doesn't need the comic character with the greatest renown to make bank.
And Iron Man. The general public didn't give a shit about him until that movie. Same for Cap, Thor and the Avengers.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I said before that I enjoyed the movie, but after sitting with it for a while I'm really disappointed that it devolved into a cliche in the final act. There was a lot leading up to the end (albeit slightly flawed) that could've really made for a compelling movie that wasn't just based on Michael Bay Action Sequences (TM).
If it was studio meddling that lead to the final scenes, then I think it's pretty safe to say that the studio is fucking stupid and needs to just knock it off, because if that kind of approach went overboard it very easily could have turned into a rehash of MoS/BvS.
Marvel probably should have gone with a Black Widow movie first. Their most well known female characters are with Fox. Storm, Rogue, and Jean Grey are more popular than Captain Marvel, Wasp, She-Hulk, etc. Black Widow is the one who can compete thanks to her already being in Avengers.
Between Lucy and GitS, I'm not sure that Scarlett is really a compelling lead. Her blank stare needs someone with actual energy to bounce off of.
Well, Marvel hasn't done that good of a job promoting their female characters in film. Elizabeth Olsen has a lot of range but Scarlet Witch is kind of boring and underused. Gamora is good but she's there to play the straight man to everyone else. Evangeline Lilly was great as Hope van Dyne but she's only been in one movie.
And Fox hasn't been doing very well either. They have the most popular Marvel female characters but they've either failed to capitalize on them like with Storm or dropped the ball like with Jean Grey. Hopefully, they won't screw up with Laura.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
This was a good movie. Strangely slow compared to other action movies, but I liked that. I think this was the type of movie that someone in the production team wanted out of MoS and BvS but Snyder insisted on the editing and everything else being so choppy it belonged in a butcher shop.
Is it just me, or besides Themyscyra, did it feel like the movie had less of a budget compared to other super hero movies like Captain America 1? I think it might have been trying to make all the war time stuff feel tired and low scale war on purpose because it was the end of the war, yet sometimes I felt I was watching something on a TV show budget and not a full action movie budget.
Also for once I wasn't disappointed in the bloodless nature of the carnage. I love blood and some gibs. Once again, they didn't sell it as well as say The Dark Knight or the Marvel movies, but the action was good enough that it was alright.
I did not see the Ares reveal coming. I knew it wasn't the German general obviously, and I like the idea of Ares influencing people to war, but that shot of him after he fell from the sky was like "Lol Nigel Thornberry stash". I didn't have a problem with the final fight, but I almost wish he kept the angel of death feel where he was teleporting, being kind of creepy, and messing with people. Ares wanting all humans to die was weird to me as that seemed more like a Satan thing. A Supernatural Satan thing. How do people war if everyone is dead? I liked his portrayal in JLA where he sold murder bots and kept conflicts alive, but this was a cool portrayal too. He already kind of already lost though. War's over, pretty much. Even if London got gassed, the pillsburry dough boys would just overrun Germany anyway. Not exactly Red Skull going to bomb the shit out of New York at the height of WW2 with his magitech.
I like how we get a little bit of time with the commando team, but I feel like we could have used more.
Some people have said this was like The First Avenger but better, and the movie is nothing like Captain America. Then again, nothing will top Star Spangled Man With a Plan. Others have said this was the best movie of the year, and I'm thinking "really?". It's a solid B but nothing super special.
One silly moment I haven't seen brought up elsewhere yet is when she first encounters Ares, there's a shot of her reaching for the sword on her back and it not being there because she just used it to impale the German dude on the roof. Then some other stuff happens and then the camera cuts back to her dropping down from the roof with the sword in hand. Was there another scene cut from there? Or was Ares just like, "No, go ahead. Take your time. I'll wait."
Some people have said this was like The First Avenger but better, and the movie is nothing like Captain America. Then again, nothing will top Star Spangled Man With a Plan. Others have said this was the best movie of the year, and I'm thinking "really?". It's a solid B but nothing super special.
Young new hero with super-powers joins the military to fight the Bad Guy (who's a twisted version of themselves* that wants to destroy everything), gets training, slowly becomes their super-hero persona during the war and has to commit a personal sacrifice to stop the Bad Guy.
Both heroes team up with a bunch of roguish soldiers, who become best friends with the Hero. WW loses Bucky Steve.
Rogers' persona is split between WW and Captain Trevor, had Evans' not been Cap Pine would have been able to pick up the slack.
Of course it's not 1 = 1, but it doesn't have to be. The influence of TFA is heavily felt by this movie. It feels like a more solid, second draft.
* to be fair The Red Skull role is split between the General, and Ares. I guess this would make Dr. Poison Arnim Zola?
edit: Both Big Bad's ambiguously die. Many people assumed Red Skull died when he teleported away, and Ares is a god who is know to be hard to kill off permanently, so they can be bought back at any time down the line.
Haven't seen this yet as it's not even in cinemas here, but I'm really happy that this is seemingly at least okay and made a bunch of money, just for the fact that we now might get more women lead and or directed big budget movies. If this had flopped hard it probably would have put quite a damper on future similar projects.
This was a good movie. Strangely slow compared to other action movies, but I liked that. I think this was the type of movie that someone in the production team wanted out of MoS and BvS but Snyder insisted on the editing and everything else being so choppy it belonged in a butcher shop.
Is it just me, or besides Themyscyra, did it feel like the movie had less of a budget compared to other super hero movies like Captain America 1? I think it might have been trying to make all the war time stuff feel tired and low scale war on purpose because it was the end of the war, yet sometimes I felt I was watching something on a TV show budget and not a full action movie budget.
Also for once I wasn't disappointed in the bloodless nature of the carnage. I love blood and some gibs. Once again, they didn't sell it as well as say The Dark Knight or the Marvel movies, but the action was good enough that it was alright.
I did not see the Ares reveal coming. I knew it wasn't the German general obviously, and I like the idea of Ares influencing people to war, but that shot of him after he fell from the sky was like "Lol Nigel Thornberry stash". I didn't have a problem with the final fight, but I almost wish he kept the angel of death feel where he was teleporting, being kind of creepy, and messing with people. Ares wanting all humans to die was weird to me as that seemed more like a Satan thing. A Supernatural Satan thing. How do people war if everyone is dead? I liked his portrayal in JLA where he sold murder bots and kept conflicts alive, but this was a cool portrayal too. He already kind of already lost though. War's over, pretty much. Even if London got gassed, the pillsburry dough boys would just overrun Germany anyway. Not exactly Red Skull going to bomb the shit out of New York at the height of WW2 with his magitech.
I like how we get a little bit of time with the commando team, but I feel like we could have used more.
Some people have said this was like The First Avenger but better, and the movie is nothing like Captain America. Then again, nothing will top Star Spangled Man With a Plan. Others have said this was the best movie of the year, and I'm thinking "really?". It's a solid B but nothing super special.
Wonder Woman had about the same budget as the MCU origin movies like Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, and Ant-Man, as well as Batman Begins, around $150 million. But it's much lower than MoS's budget, which was over $200 million.
The movie can't be too violent because they still want kids to go see it. It's already dark and gritty enough that it skews older than the MCU films. You can take really young kids to see the first Captain America but you might not want to take a 6 or 7 year old to see a movie with trench warfare and people getting gassed.
It's not clear how gods work in the DCEU. I'm guessing they don't go by D&D rules where they have set portfolios and require people to believe in them and make sacrifices based on their portfolios. Ares just seems like a really powerful supernatural being who can do whatever he wants.
And I don't expect any comic book movie this year to top Logan.
It's not clear how gods work in the DCEU. I'm guessing they don't go by D&D rules where they have set portfolios and require people to believe in them and make sacrifices based on their portfolios. Ares just seems like a really powerful supernatural being who can do whatever he wants.
We don't really have any hard info on how the gods operate in the DCEU, or at least the ones from Greek myth, what we do know for a fact that Ares was their God of War, and in the film he did nothing that went against that portfolio. In the comics he can lie to start conflicts, too. It's not that far a bridge from his power set, his children both there and actual mythology are beings of fear and conflict.
It's a pity the DCEU killed off all the Greek gods, so we'd get a definite answer and it's a shame Athena won't be her mentor/patron. I would be against a retcon - if Ares can survive and stay hidden why can't others? If any god was capable of that I'd bet on Athena.
Ares power in the comics has kind of been all over the place IIRC. He has some basic power set but overall doing what he wants is pretty much being DC Ares.
One silly moment I haven't seen brought up elsewhere yet is when she first encounters Ares, there's a shot of her reaching for the sword on her back and it not being there because she just used it to impale the German dude on the roof. Then some other stuff happens and then the camera cuts back to her dropping down from the roof with the sword in hand. Was there another scene cut from there? Or was Ares just like, "No, go ahead. Take your time. I'll wait."
Yeah, that was pretty awkward. It feels like they made some changes to the climax at some point. I wonder if there was a version of this movie where it doesn't run so generic at the end...
[Discussing the No Man's Land scene]... Warner Bros. thought at one point it wasn’t worth being part of Wonder Woman’s runtime. Speaking to Fandango about the film, director Patty Jenkins revealed that when she first presented the script, the scene did not go down well at all with her colleagues at Warner Bros., who were seemingly baffled at the thought of a superhero fighting to liberate innocent people swept up in tragedy rather than punching the big villain in the face from the get-go:
"It’s my favorite scene in the movie and it’s the most important scene in the movie. It’s also the scene that made the least sense to other people going in, which is why it’s a wonderful victory for me. I think that in superhero movies, they fight other people, they fight villains. So when I started to really hunker in on the significance of No Man’s Land, there were a couple people who were deeply confused, wondering, like, ‘Well, what is she going to do? How many bullets can she fight?’ And I kept saying, ‘It’s not about that. This is a different scene than that. This is a scene about her becoming Wonder Woman."
Jenkins personally fought tooth and nail to keep the scene in the film, even going so far as to personally storyboard the sequence so she could show people that the scene absolutely crucial to the film as a whole and to Diana as a character:
"It’s about her. We’re not angry at the Germans. We don’t care about the Germans and neither does she. This is what she needs to do to get across [No Man’s Land], and so it’s about her."
No Man's Land was the best scene in the film and I wish it had been longer / less of a ROFLstomp, the village being shelled at the gala would have a stronger impact.
Someone mentioned that it felt like the final battle was directed by Snyder and I can't agree with that more. I wish the German general had been Ares, just weak and de-powered from his throw down with Zeus. Kill him, nothing changes, rest of the third act is Diana struggling to reconcile that and them trying to stop the plane / poison. Smelled like studio meddling.
Seriously. WB's executives seem to genuinely not understand that even with super heroes it's characters and relationships that come first for a good story.
No Man's Land was the best scene in the film and I wish it had been longer / less of a ROFLstomp, the village being shelled at the gala would have a stronger impact.
Someone mentioned that it felt like the final battle was directed by Snyder and I can't agree with that more. I wish the German general had been Ares, just weak and de-powered from his throw down with Zeus. Kill him, nothing changes, rest of the third act is Diana struggling to reconcile that and them trying to stop the plane / poison. Smelled like studio meddling.
No Man's Land was the best scene in the film and I wish it had been longer / less of a ROFLstomp, the village being shelled at the gala would have a stronger impact.
Someone mentioned that it felt like the final battle was directed by Snyder and I can't agree with that more. I wish the German general had been Ares, just weak and de-powered from his throw down with Zeus. Kill him, nothing changes, rest of the third act is Diana struggling to reconcile that and them trying to stop the plane / poison. Smelled like studio meddling.
....giant fucking spider in the third act!!!
I was about to post the same thing, it's the exact same line of reasoning.
"‘Well, what is she going to do? How many bullets can she fight?’" shows such a huge problem in how to think of or handle characters.
Also why didn't they cast another actor for Ares. After his reveal, have him morph into his true form/face. The moustache under the helmet was too distracting and I couldn't take him seriously.
Also why didn't they cast another actor for Ares. After his reveal, have him morph into his true form/face. The moustache under the helmet was too distracting and I couldn't take him seriously.
Eh. Once he put on the BBEG armor and started on his Magneto impression I think that any actor was gonna look silly and distracting.
Also why didn't they cast another actor for Ares. After his reveal, have him morph into his true form/face. The moustache under the helmet was too distracting and I couldn't take him seriously.
I had the exact same issue. I love Thewlis, but he is not physically Ares. Ares looked fine to me except when I could see his face and that little mustache.
The movie was good. I'd say it's DC's Captain America: First Avenger, but probably a little better than Cap 1. That very well could be recency bias, of course, but it feels right.
I echo the same sentiments of a lot of the thread. Her powering up felt both like a good story point, but not well enough explained (like WHY was she slowly gaining the powers is my big issue).
As for No Man's Land, I didn't really like that scene because I was having trouble believing not a single round hit her. It stretched and broke my suspension of disbelief. Combine that with the movie not doing a good job of explaining the HOW behind her rising power and I struggled.
What especially makes it frustrating is one of my favorite scenes was immediately after with her crashing through buildings in the town and taking down soldiers. Going building to building was better and more believable, if that made sense.
As for it being a movie of the year? That makes no sense to me when movies like Logan exist (if we go with just superheroes). It was good. It wasn't 9/10.
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the scene did not go down well at all with her colleagues at Warner Bros., who were seemingly baffled at the thought of a superhero fighting to liberate innocent people swept up in tragedy rather than punching the big villain in the face from the get-go:=
That scene, more than anything else in the movie, defines who she is. Yes, strategically they had more important things to do - all of her teammates let her know that. But she persists anyways. It's great.
the scene did not go down well at all with her colleagues at Warner Bros., who were seemingly baffled at the thought of a superhero fighting to liberate innocent people swept up in tragedy rather than punching the big villain in the face from the get-go:=
That scene, more than anything else in the movie, defines who she is. Yes, strategically they had more important things to do - all of her teammates let her know that. But she persists anyways. It's great.
"Nevertheless she persisted" is just a permanent thing now. I'll take it.
For a moment, I thought the twist was going to be not only was Ludendorff not Ares, but Ares died of his wounds after Zeus defeated him. He had literally nothing to do with this, it's all us, we all suck. And then Diana would have to fully understand our suckiness but how we can overcome that suckiness to do good things and if she could help us realise that like Marlon Brando's son does that would be neato. I mean, that's what she concludes in the end, but the "twist" that World War 1 had no Archpuppeteer, that it really was just a bunch of flawed and short sighted humans making terrible decisions - many of those decisions made hundreds of miles from the battlefield - feels like a lesson always worth learning. Either that or the upthread idea of Ares being the God of Ending War now would be cool.
The action was pretty good, though I agree the character arc resolution was kinda rushed during the climax.
I didn't think the Veld scene was that good and I don't understand why that is the scene that stands out to people. I prefer the slomo fights as they're a bit more dynamic, but even then, the best parts in the film were when there wasn't any fighting (that. or the scene where Diana kamehamas Ares. That was rad.).
I'm all for fiction using WW1, it wasn't a dour sacred event that can never be touched. But even so, the part where she climbs the ladder ("goes over the top") gave me the small feeling that the film was appropriating WW1. A feeling that I nearly instantly squashed when watching as I don't believe that WW1 is untouchable, make all the action movies, video games etc you want I say.
I didn't think the Veld scene was that good and I don't understand why that is the scene that stands out to people. I prefer the slomo fights as they're a bit more dynamic, but even then, the best parts in the film were when there wasn't any fighting (that. or the scene where Diana kamehamas Ares. That was rad.).
I'm all for fiction using WW1, it wasn't a dour sacred event that can never be touched. But even so, the part where she climbs the ladder ("goes over the top") gave me the small feeling that the film was appropriating WW1. A feeling that I nearly instantly squashed when watching as I don't believe that WW1 is untouchable, make all the action movies, video games etc you want I say.
I wouldn't want it removed tho.
Veld is important because Superman would have just flown over the trench and heatvisioned the Germans and Batman would have snuck through under cover of night murdering everyone he came across, but Wonder Woman broke a weeks-long standoff by helping the soldiers not get cut to ribbons in that horrible fucking no-man's land.
She actually cared about the suffering being caused by the standoff, and ended it.
I didn't think the Veld scene was that good and I don't understand why that is the scene that stands out to people. I prefer the slomo fights as they're a bit more dynamic, but even then, the best parts in the film were when there wasn't any fighting (that. or the scene where Diana kamehamas Ares. That was rad.).
I'm all for fiction using WW1, it wasn't a dour sacred event that can never be touched. But even so, the part where she climbs the ladder ("goes over the top") gave me the small feeling that the film was appropriating WW1. A feeling that I nearly instantly squashed when watching as I don't believe that WW1 is untouchable, make all the action movies, video games etc you want I say.
I wouldn't want it removed tho.
Veld is important because Superman would have just flown over the trench and heatvisioned the Germans and Batman would have snuck through under cover of night murdering everyone he came across, but Wonder Woman broke a weeks-long standoff by helping the soldiers not get cut to ribbons in that horrible fucking no-man's land.
She actually cared about the suffering being caused by the standoff, and moved it forwards 100 metres.
My main reason for disliking it is that she is mostly just standing in one place. It's not particularly interesting.
I didn't think the Veld scene was that good and I don't understand why that is the scene that stands out to people. I prefer the slomo fights as they're a bit more dynamic, but even then, the best parts in the film were when there wasn't any fighting (that. or the scene where Diana kamehamas Ares. That was rad.).
I'm all for fiction using WW1, it wasn't a dour sacred event that can never be touched. But even so, the part where she climbs the ladder ("goes over the top") gave me the small feeling that the film was appropriating WW1. A feeling that I nearly instantly squashed when watching as I don't believe that WW1 is untouchable, make all the action movies, video games etc you want I say.
I wouldn't want it removed tho.
Veld is important because Superman would have just flown over the trench and heatvisioned the Germans and Batman would have snuck through under cover of night murdering everyone he came across, but Wonder Woman broke a weeks-long standoff by helping the soldiers not get cut to ribbons in that horrible fucking no-man's land.
She actually cared about the suffering being caused by the standoff, and moved it forwards 100 metres.
My main reason for disliking it is that she is mostly just standing in one place. It's not particularly interesting.
Except that, by "just standing there," she's actively helping others to succeed, being an inspiration and ten times the hero that her BvS costars have ever been in this universe.
Like, you're saying that the one scene with comics Superman giving a hug to that girl that was about to commit suicide wasn't interesting because he didn't wait for her to jump so he could dramatically catch her.
Heroes aren't heroes because they kick the most ass; they're heroes because they do the right thing.
I didn't think the Veld scene was that good and I don't understand why that is the scene that stands out to people. I prefer the slomo fights as they're a bit more dynamic, but even then, the best parts in the film were when there wasn't any fighting (that. or the scene where Diana kamehamas Ares. That was rad.).
I'm all for fiction using WW1, it wasn't a dour sacred event that can never be touched. But even so, the part where she climbs the ladder ("goes over the top") gave me the small feeling that the film was appropriating WW1. A feeling that I nearly instantly squashed when watching as I don't believe that WW1 is untouchable, make all the action movies, video games etc you want I say.
I wouldn't want it removed tho.
Veld is important because Superman would have just flown over the trench and heatvisioned the Germans and Batman would have snuck through under cover of night murdering everyone he came across, but Wonder Woman broke a weeks-long standoff by helping the soldiers not get cut to ribbons in that horrible fucking no-man's land.
She actually cared about the suffering being caused by the standoff, and moved it forwards 100 metres.
My main reason for disliking it is that she is mostly just standing in one place. It's not particularly interesting.
I didn't think the Veld scene was that good and I don't understand why that is the scene that stands out to people. I prefer the slomo fights as they're a bit more dynamic, but even then, the best parts in the film were when there wasn't any fighting (that. or the scene where Diana kamehamas Ares. That was rad.).
I'm all for fiction using WW1, it wasn't a dour sacred event that can never be touched. But even so, the part where she climbs the ladder ("goes over the top") gave me the small feeling that the film was appropriating WW1. A feeling that I nearly instantly squashed when watching as I don't believe that WW1 is untouchable, make all the action movies, video games etc you want I say.
I wouldn't want it removed tho.
Veld is important because Superman would have just flown over the trench and heatvisioned the Germans and Batman would have snuck through under cover of night murdering everyone he came across, but Wonder Woman broke a weeks-long standoff by helping the soldiers not get cut to ribbons in that horrible fucking no-man's land.
She actually cared about the suffering being caused by the standoff, and moved it forwards 100 metres.
My main reason for disliking it is that she is mostly just standing in one place. It's not particularly interesting.
Seriously. WB's executives seem to genuinely not understand that even with super heroes it's characters and relationships that come first for a good story.
It's a miracle we got this movie in tact. The Dark Knight trilogy was a fluke.
I don't think it is a fluke. I think DC allows the directors more freedom. I admire DC's commitment to letting their directors make the movie their own. It's just that when the director given free reign is... well, Zack Snyder. You get the DC movies.
Suicide Squad is the only film I'd say has executives pulling the strings (they all do, but the director's vision usually shines through in a way that the Marvel film directors' don't). But I am not familiar with David Ayers' stuff, so I have no clue if SS is not the kind of film he'd make.
It is still a bit early to be saying this kind of thing. But I hope that it is the case.
I don't think it is a fluke. I think DC allows the directors more freedom. I admire DC's commitment to letting their directors make the movie their own. It's just that when the director given free reign is... well, Zack Snyder. You get the DC movies.
Suicide Squad is the only film I'd say has executives pulling the strings (they all do, but the director's vision usually shines through in a way that the Marvel film directors' don't). But I am not familiar with David Ayers' stuff, so I have no clue if SS is not the kind of film he'd make.
It is still a bit early to be saying this kind of thing. But I hope that it is the case.
It's a fluke in the sense that everything's worked out for them, it took them 3 movies before they got this stage with the DCEU. Allowing directors more freedom* has severe set backs when it comes to a cinematic universe, even if we ignore the quality issue. The universe has no constancy to its world building or tone, unlike the MCU.
* unless you're David Ayer, then replacing him with trailer company will be ok
Gal Gadot was fantastic.
She brought an almost child like innocence to the role that felt incredibly genuine to me. Another actress could have (and probably would have) played her like a hardened warrior.
Plus, given the fighting style, i think Gal was quite believable physically. Chris Pine -as always- was above average.
Its better than the worst MCU movies, but not nearly as good as the best MCU movies.
7.5/10 from me if it matters.
I didn't think the Veld scene was that good and I don't understand why that is the scene that stands out to people. I prefer the slomo fights as they're a bit more dynamic, but even then, the best parts in the film were when there wasn't any fighting (that. or the scene where Diana kamehamas Ares. That was rad.).
I'm all for fiction using WW1, it wasn't a dour sacred event that can never be touched. But even so, the part where she climbs the ladder ("goes over the top") gave me the small feeling that the film was appropriating WW1. A feeling that I nearly instantly squashed when watching as I don't believe that WW1 is untouchable, make all the action movies, video games etc you want I say.
I wouldn't want it removed tho.
Veld is important because Superman would have just flown over the trench and heatvisioned the Germans and Batman would have snuck through under cover of night murdering everyone he came across, but Wonder Woman broke a weeks-long standoff by helping the soldiers not get cut to ribbons in that horrible fucking no-man's land.
She actually cared about the suffering being caused by the standoff, and moved it forwards 100 metres.
My main reason for disliking it is that she is mostly just standing in one place. It's not particularly interesting.
Except that, by "just standing there," she's actively helping others to succeed, being an inspiration and ten times the hero that her BvS costars have ever been in this universe.
Like, you're saying that the one scene with comics Superman giving a hug to that girl that was about to commit suicide wasn't interesting because he didn't wait for her to jump so he could dramatically catch her.
Heroes aren't heroes because they kick the most ass; they're heroes because they do the right thing.
The studio exec masturbating over a pile of special effects money would have that comic show Superman swooping in right in the nick of time to catch her falling. Exciting right? Nope, cause of course he's going to catch her that's what he does, he's Superman.
What we got though was Superman swooping in right in the nick of time to... hug her, something literally anyone in the world could have done for her. This is where the studio exec gets confused on why anyone would want to kill his spectacle boner by seeing Superman do something anyone could do. But that's the thing, if anyone was doing it, she wouldn't have been on the ledge in the first place.
Fucking called it. God WB execs are terrible. Good to know that Snyder is more the effect than the cause.
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That's one hell of an alter ego.
Ares can lie and deceive, it's just not officially in his supernatural portfolio aka Discord.
Starring Jeremy Renner and Samuel L Jackson.
And Iron Man. The general public didn't give a shit about him until that movie. Same for Cap, Thor and the Avengers.
If it was studio meddling that lead to the final scenes, then I think it's pretty safe to say that the studio is fucking stupid and needs to just knock it off, because if that kind of approach went overboard it very easily could have turned into a rehash of MoS/BvS.
There was a callout to William Moulton Marston.
Well, Marvel hasn't done that good of a job promoting their female characters in film. Elizabeth Olsen has a lot of range but Scarlet Witch is kind of boring and underused. Gamora is good but she's there to play the straight man to everyone else. Evangeline Lilly was great as Hope van Dyne but she's only been in one movie.
And Fox hasn't been doing very well either. They have the most popular Marvel female characters but they've either failed to capitalize on them like with Storm or dropped the ball like with Jean Grey. Hopefully, they won't screw up with Laura.
Is it just me, or besides Themyscyra, did it feel like the movie had less of a budget compared to other super hero movies like Captain America 1? I think it might have been trying to make all the war time stuff feel tired and low scale war on purpose because it was the end of the war, yet sometimes I felt I was watching something on a TV show budget and not a full action movie budget.
Also for once I wasn't disappointed in the bloodless nature of the carnage. I love blood and some gibs. Once again, they didn't sell it as well as say The Dark Knight or the Marvel movies, but the action was good enough that it was alright.
I did not see the Ares reveal coming. I knew it wasn't the German general obviously, and I like the idea of Ares influencing people to war, but that shot of him after he fell from the sky was like "Lol Nigel Thornberry stash". I didn't have a problem with the final fight, but I almost wish he kept the angel of death feel where he was teleporting, being kind of creepy, and messing with people. Ares wanting all humans to die was weird to me as that seemed more like a Satan thing. A Supernatural Satan thing. How do people war if everyone is dead? I liked his portrayal in JLA where he sold murder bots and kept conflicts alive, but this was a cool portrayal too. He already kind of already lost though. War's over, pretty much. Even if London got gassed, the pillsburry dough boys would just overrun Germany anyway. Not exactly Red Skull going to bomb the shit out of New York at the height of WW2 with his magitech.
I like how we get a little bit of time with the commando team, but I feel like we could have used more.
Some people have said this was like The First Avenger but better, and the movie is nothing like Captain America. Then again, nothing will top Star Spangled Man With a Plan. Others have said this was the best movie of the year, and I'm thinking "really?". It's a solid B but nothing super special.
Young new hero with super-powers joins the military to fight the Bad Guy (who's a twisted version of themselves* that wants to destroy everything), gets training, slowly becomes their super-hero persona during the war and has to commit a personal sacrifice to stop the Bad Guy.
Both heroes team up with a bunch of roguish soldiers, who become best friends with the Hero. WW loses Bucky Steve.
Rogers' persona is split between WW and Captain Trevor, had Evans' not been Cap Pine would have been able to pick up the slack.
Of course it's not 1 = 1, but it doesn't have to be. The influence of TFA is heavily felt by this movie. It feels like a more solid, second draft.
* to be fair The Red Skull role is split between the General, and Ares. I guess this would make Dr. Poison Arnim Zola?
edit: Both Big Bad's ambiguously die. Many people assumed Red Skull died when he teleported away, and Ares is a god who is know to be hard to kill off permanently, so they can be bought back at any time down the line.
Wonder Woman had about the same budget as the MCU origin movies like Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, and Ant-Man, as well as Batman Begins, around $150 million. But it's much lower than MoS's budget, which was over $200 million.
The movie can't be too violent because they still want kids to go see it. It's already dark and gritty enough that it skews older than the MCU films. You can take really young kids to see the first Captain America but you might not want to take a 6 or 7 year old to see a movie with trench warfare and people getting gassed.
It's not clear how gods work in the DCEU. I'm guessing they don't go by D&D rules where they have set portfolios and require people to believe in them and make sacrifices based on their portfolios. Ares just seems like a really powerful supernatural being who can do whatever he wants.
And I don't expect any comic book movie this year to top Logan.
We don't really have any hard info on how the gods operate in the DCEU, or at least the ones from Greek myth, what we do know for a fact that Ares was their God of War, and in the film he did nothing that went against that portfolio. In the comics he can lie to start conflicts, too. It's not that far a bridge from his power set, his children both there and actual mythology are beings of fear and conflict.
It's a pity the DCEU killed off all the Greek gods, so we'd get a definite answer and it's a shame Athena won't be her mentor/patron. I would be against a retcon - if Ares can survive and stay hidden why can't others? If any god was capable of that I'd bet on Athena.
Ares power in the comics has kind of been all over the place IIRC. He has some basic power set but overall doing what he wants is pretty much being DC Ares.
Yeah, that was pretty awkward. It feels like they made some changes to the climax at some point. I wonder if there was a version of this movie where it doesn't run so generic at the end...
Also, an interesting little blurb from Gizmodo
Someone mentioned that it felt like the final battle was directed by Snyder and I can't agree with that more. I wish the German general had been Ares, just weak and de-powered from his throw down with Zeus. Kill him, nothing changes, rest of the third act is Diana struggling to reconcile that and them trying to stop the plane / poison. Smelled like studio meddling.
....giant fucking spider in the third act!!!
I was about to post the same thing, it's the exact same line of reasoning.
"‘Well, what is she going to do? How many bullets can she fight?’" shows such a huge problem in how to think of or handle characters.
Also why didn't they cast another actor for Ares. After his reveal, have him morph into his true form/face. The moustache under the helmet was too distracting and I couldn't take him seriously.
Eh. Once he put on the BBEG armor and started on his Magneto impression I think that any actor was gonna look silly and distracting.
The movie was good. I'd say it's DC's Captain America: First Avenger, but probably a little better than Cap 1. That very well could be recency bias, of course, but it feels right.
I echo the same sentiments of a lot of the thread. Her powering up felt both like a good story point, but not well enough explained (like WHY was she slowly gaining the powers is my big issue).
As for No Man's Land, I didn't really like that scene because I was having trouble believing not a single round hit her. It stretched and broke my suspension of disbelief. Combine that with the movie not doing a good job of explaining the HOW behind her rising power and I struggled.
What especially makes it frustrating is one of my favorite scenes was immediately after with her crashing through buildings in the town and taking down soldiers. Going building to building was better and more believable, if that made sense.
As for it being a movie of the year? That makes no sense to me when movies like Logan exist (if we go with just superheroes). It was good. It wasn't 9/10.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
That scene, more than anything else in the movie, defines who she is. Yes, strategically they had more important things to do - all of her teammates let her know that. But she persists anyways. It's great.
"Nevertheless she persisted" is just a permanent thing now. I'll take it.
The action was pretty good, though I agree the character arc resolution was kinda rushed during the climax.
I'm all for fiction using WW1, it wasn't a dour sacred event that can never be touched. But even so, the part where she climbs the ladder ("goes over the top") gave me the small feeling that the film was appropriating WW1. A feeling that I nearly instantly squashed when watching as I don't believe that WW1 is untouchable, make all the action movies, video games etc you want I say.
I wouldn't want it removed tho.
Veld is important because Superman would have just flown over the trench and heatvisioned the Germans and Batman would have snuck through under cover of night murdering everyone he came across, but Wonder Woman broke a weeks-long standoff by helping the soldiers not get cut to ribbons in that horrible fucking no-man's land.
She actually cared about the suffering being caused by the standoff, and ended it.
My main reason for disliking it is that she is mostly just standing in one place. It's not particularly interesting.
Except that, by "just standing there," she's actively helping others to succeed, being an inspiration and ten times the hero that her BvS costars have ever been in this universe.
Like, you're saying that the one scene with comics Superman giving a hug to that girl that was about to commit suicide wasn't interesting because he didn't wait for her to jump so he could dramatically catch her.
Heroes aren't heroes because they kick the most ass; they're heroes because they do the right thing.
The Veld scene isn't bad, I just don't understand how it is the scene of the film for a lot of people.
Well, no accounting for dispassionate, emotionless monsters. :twisted:
Just kidding. Probably.
It was an incredible visual and fucking badass.
A woman alone fighting against a bunch of men doing everything they can to tear away at her
Her allies, ignored by the enemy men as they become engrossed with trying to break her, are able to provide assistance
And with just the smallest support she crushes the men trying to stop her from moving forward toward her goals
I generally fail at subtext but this one seemed a bit obvious to me and I can understand the appeal. Also yeah it was badass af.
Found the DPS main. :rotate:
It's a miracle we got this movie in tact. The Dark Knight trilogy was a fluke.
Suicide Squad is the only film I'd say has executives pulling the strings (they all do, but the director's vision usually shines through in a way that the Marvel film directors' don't). But I am not familiar with David Ayers' stuff, so I have no clue if SS is not the kind of film he'd make.
It is still a bit early to be saying this kind of thing. But I hope that it is the case.
It's a fluke in the sense that everything's worked out for them, it took them 3 movies before they got this stage with the DCEU. Allowing directors more freedom* has severe set backs when it comes to a cinematic universe, even if we ignore the quality issue. The universe has no constancy to its world building or tone, unlike the MCU.
* unless you're David Ayer, then replacing him with trailer company will be ok
She brought an almost child like innocence to the role that felt incredibly genuine to me. Another actress could have (and probably would have) played her like a hardened warrior.
Plus, given the fighting style, i think Gal was quite believable physically. Chris Pine -as always- was above average.
Its better than the worst MCU movies, but not nearly as good as the best MCU movies.
7.5/10 from me if it matters.
Oh god, flashback from just over 2 years ago bitching about MoS: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/32350723/#Comment_32350723
Fucking called it. God WB execs are terrible. Good to know that Snyder is more the effect than the cause.