Basically canon is whatever works for their stories at the moment
Like how novelizations often have scenes or details that never made the final movie
In the end nerds love to ruin stuff by overanalyzing, myself included, but I for sure wouldn't want that guy's job because holy crap people are insanely rude to him
I blame Tolkien. If he hadn't written so goddamn much about Middle-Earth, we wouldn't be in this situation where folks want more and want it all connected and explained and consistent.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Basically canon is whatever works for their stories at the moment
Like how novelizations often have scenes or details that never made the final movie
In the end nerds love to ruin stuff by overanalyzing, myself included, but I for sure wouldn't want that guy's job because holy crap people are insanely rude to him
As long as it doesn't change the narrative outcome
The canon solution feels like an elegant solution. It's how superhero comics usually handle these things - over time you'll see pivotal events redrawn and rewritten dozens of times.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Basically canon is whatever works for their stories at the moment
Like how novelizations often have scenes or details that never made the final movie
In the end nerds love to ruin stuff by overanalyzing, myself included, but I for sure wouldn't want that guy's job because holy crap people are insanely rude to him
I blame Tolkien. If he hadn't written so goddamn much about Middle-Earth, we wouldn't be in this situation where folks want more and want it all connected and explained and consistent.
Nah, some people just can't let shit go. I'm pretty sure there was that guy in Ancient Greece nagging the priests about, "How could Heracles be fighting the Hydra at Lerna AND traveling to Crete to slay the Bull at the same time?!?!?"
Forces of Density looks like a really bad idea. Do we really want to know the tale of Rey and BB-8 walking to town? Every second of life isn't filled with adventure. We saw everything of consequence on Jakku between BB and Rey in the movie, packing it like as over stuffed suitcase seems like a boring waste of time.
Forces of Density looks like a really bad idea. Do we really want to know the tale of Rey and BB-8 walking to town? Every second of life isn't filled with adventure. We saw everything of consequence on Jakku between BB and Rey in the movie, packing it like as over stuffed suitcase seems like a boring waste of time.
They are two minute cartoons for kids (specifically young girls). You don't have to watch it if you don't like it, man.
Did I need a book on how Boba Fett escaped the sarlacc pit and was nursed back to health by his rival and head-wrap enthusiast Dengar?
Yes. Yes I did.
I'm sure that story has a quiet moment or two that we could spruce up with some adventure. What if during a trip to the store to pick up blue milk, Dengar has some crazy run in that changes absolutely nothing by the time it's over? Then we can find out that while we thought Boba was resting and waiting for his blue milk, he actually got better, went back to the Sarlaac pit to pee in it, only to fall in again. He can have an adventure down there and be injured again by the time Dengar gets back. Really fill in all the gaps in that story.
Did I need a book on how Boba Fett escaped the sarlacc pit and was nursed back to health by his rival and head-wrap enthusiast Dengar?
Yes. Yes I did.
I read that one.
It had some of the better interpersonal working relationships I've seen in Star Wars up to today. It wasn't Thrawn-Pallaeon, but it was pretty damn good.
Granted, even today the standards aren't super high, but I remember that sticking out.
The whole fiasco with IG-88 taking over the universe was kind of dumb though.
After a while they will have retconned all non-movie material one way or another. It's why I think most people were okay with them chucking the EU and picking the best parts to expand on. Like, as sad as I am that Young Jedi Knights was made pointless, I'm also glad that certain stories got to be left behind. I loved Boba Fett as a kid but only because he got expanded on in the EU. Movie Boba just kinda looks cool, threatens people with guns, and dies to blind dude with a stick (Slapstick Solo strikes again!)
Worst loss of the whole deal was Kyle Katarn. He was one of the few EU heroes who felt like a part of the original trilogy proper.
Local H Jay on
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited July 2017
Speaking of Katarn, man I hate FPS maze levels. I got stuck on the third one of Dark Forces with the sewers. Just let me shoot stuff
Yeah, and that was an EU problem; explaining things that didn't need explaining. Same with the prequels. Patton Oswalt did a great riff on how pointless that practice is.
Katarn had a lot of cool moments outside stealing the plans so he could still be around and be badass imo
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
After a while they will have retconned all non-movie material one way or another. It's why I think most people were okay with them chucking the EU and picking the best parts to expand on. Like, as sad as I am that Young Jedi Knights was made pointless, I'm also glad that certain stories got to be left behind. I loved Boba Fett as a kid but only because he got expanded on in the EU. Movie Boba just kinda looks cool, threatens people with guns, and dies to blind dude with a stick (Slapstick Solo strikes again!)
Worst loss of the whole deal was Kyle Katarn. He was one of the few EU heroes who felt like a part of the original trilogy proper.
I feel like Cassian Andor was basically Kyle Katarn. He just didn't live long enough to ever become a Jedi. Just like Jyn Erso was practically Jan Ors.
And Kylo is kind of like a Jacen analogue. I think Rey will basically be the Ben analogue.
They've done a good job reintegrating quite a few of the cool things from the old EU. Thrawn being the biggest evidence for me that they are willing to bring the good stuff over to the new official canon.
Which gives me hope that they will eventually bring over equivalents for Mara Jade.
Yeah, I immediately got excited about how Rey and Kylo felt like analouges in some ways, and they've cherry picked the better parts to translate. And I like how Rogue One ended, gave a great, self contained story without the need to drag those characters through a bunch more adventures when they played their parts great as is.
But fans lost it when Thrawn showed up for a reason. We all got attached to those characters and it did sting to see it overnight become better written fan fiction, essentially. I know if they even threw in a tiny nod to Katarn in Rogue One I would have had the dumbest smile on my face.
I remember when Mara Jade showed up in Masters of Tera Kasi game and was so amazed to see her in motion.
I can dig a stance on canon when you're dealing with a literal galaxy full of continuity being 'don't sweat the small stuff'. It even adds a bit of personality to say 'well some people might think that Han shot first, and some might say Greedo, but everyone has to agree that only one survived. Eyewitness testimony can be unreliable after all.'
I can dig a stance on canon when you're dealing with a literal galaxy full of continuity being 'don't sweat the small stuff'. It even adds a bit of personality to say 'well some people might think that Han shot first, and some might say Greedo, but everyone has to agree that only one survived. Eyewitness testimony can be unreliable after all.'
How did he drop the ball on a "from a certain point of view" reference?
While not canon, I have an attachment to my imagined scenario where Rogue One and the Battle of Scarif was nothing more than a feint to divert attention from Kyle Katarn's efforts. That's why it was the demo level...
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
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As long as they didn't retcon the iconic story where the R5 unit from ANH that explodes did so intentionally because he had a premonition that Luke needed R2 to defeat the empire
RIP Skippy the droid
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
The thing I hated the most about the old EU was all the backstory shoehorning they did. "You remember that fat guy who had 30 seconds on screen, died and was never seen or mentioned again? Yeah he was a galactic adventurer and was just finishing his most dramatic mission yet, right before you saw him on screen" Thawn worked so well because he was a totally original character that just so happened to be doing cool shit when everyone else was.
The thing I hated the most about the old EU was all the backstory shoehorning they did. "You remember that fat guy who had 30 seconds on screen, died and was never seen or mentioned again? Yeah he was a galactic adventurer and was just finishing his most dramatic mission yet, right before you saw him on screen" Thawn worked so well because he was a totally original character that just so happened to be doing cool shit when everyone else was.
Perfect Weapon shows they are keeping that tradition alive.
It worked sometimes. Even though that Boba Fett book was ludicrous and silly, it did let me get a sense for what all those bounty hunters in Empire were like. Bossk always seemed like a neat character and the books actually made him seem cool despite being a repainted Gorn Mego.
But yeah the EU's issue was usually being tonally inconsistent. A lot of stories with post-RotJ Luke did some really weird shit with him. He fell to the dark side like 6 times, betrayed his friends, but none of that matters because you know by the end of that book or comic it'll be reset to zero. Pretty sure Shadows of the Empire was the first real stab at having a cohesive EU story with Lucas involved, but even then it just felt like filling blanks.
The thing I hated the most about the old EU was all the backstory shoehorning they did. "You remember that fat guy who had 30 seconds on screen, died and was never seen or mentioned again? Yeah he was a galactic adventurer and was just finishing his most dramatic mission yet, right before you saw him on screen" Thrawn worked so well because he was a totally original character that just so happened to be doing cool shit when everyone else was.
I kind of liked that about the EU. I liked knowing that every person that was hanging out in that Cantina on Mos Eisley, or sitting in Jabba's throne room or whatever, they all had their own story, their own goals. It showed that while the Empire Vs. Rebellion may be the largest story at the time, it wasn't the only one.
Which, for a setting that encompases an entire galaxy seems kind of important.
The thing I hated the most about the old EU was all the backstory shoehorning they did. "You remember that fat guy who had 30 seconds on screen, died and was never seen or mentioned again? Yeah he was a galactic adventurer and was just finishing his most dramatic mission yet, right before you saw him on screen" Thrawn worked so well because he was a totally original character that just so happened to be doing cool shit when everyone else was.
I kind of liked that about the EU. I liked knowing that every person that was hanging out in that Cantina on Mos Eisley, or sitting in Jabba's throne room or whatever, they all had their own story, their own goals. It showed that while the Empire Vs. Rebellion may be the largest story at the time, it wasn't the only one.
Which, for a setting that encompases an entire galaxy seems kind of important.
My biggest gripe about the old EU is the Max Rebo band. In the movies they were just a little backwater house band for gangsters. In the EU they were..... just silly.
The thing I hated the most about the old EU was all the backstory shoehorning they did. "You remember that fat guy who had 30 seconds on screen, died and was never seen or mentioned again? Yeah he was a galactic adventurer and was just finishing his most dramatic mission yet, right before you saw him on screen" Thrawn worked so well because he was a totally original character that just so happened to be doing cool shit when everyone else was.
I kind of liked that about the EU. I liked knowing that every person that was hanging out in that Cantina on Mos Eisley, or sitting in Jabba's throne room or whatever, they all had their own story, their own goals. It showed that while the Empire Vs. Rebellion may be the largest story at the time, it wasn't the only one.
Which, for a setting that encompases an entire galaxy seems kind of important.
Of course everyone has a "story", but 99.999% of people do boring, workaday shit, even in a galaxy far, far away, which doesn't make for good entertainment. Turning every single background extra into a mary sue is wildly unnecessary and just shows how unimaginative most of the EU was.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
The thing I hated the most about the old EU was all the backstory shoehorning they did. "You remember that fat guy who had 30 seconds on screen, died and was never seen or mentioned again? Yeah he was a galactic adventurer and was just finishing his most dramatic mission yet, right before you saw him on screen" Thrawn worked so well because he was a totally original character that just so happened to be doing cool shit when everyone else was.
I kind of liked that about the EU. I liked knowing that every person that was hanging out in that Cantina on Mos Eisley, or sitting in Jabba's throne room or whatever, they all had their own story, their own goals. It showed that while the Empire Vs. Rebellion may be the largest story at the time, it wasn't the only one.
Which, for a setting that encompases an entire galaxy seems kind of important.
My biggest gripe about the old EU is the Max Rebo band. In the movies they were just a little backwater house band for gangsters. In the EU they were..... just silly.
Yeah it's fluff like this that makes the galaxy seem smaller.
[They were] among the most well known bands of the galaxy, thanks in part to their status as the regular band at Jabba's Palace.
Really? The house band for a mobster on a backwater planet had galactic name recognition?
The thing I hated the most about the old EU was all the backstory shoehorning they did. "You remember that fat guy who had 30 seconds on screen, died and was never seen or mentioned again? Yeah he was a galactic adventurer and was just finishing his most dramatic mission yet, right before you saw him on screen" Thawn worked so well because he was a totally original character that just so happened to be doing cool shit when everyone else was.
Look, it really wasn't just the result of the EU, the actual licensed merch was ridiculous with that stuff.
Like this guy
Willrow Hood.
A guy who had two seconds of screentime where he runs down the hallways with an ice-cream maker. This guy got a CCG card, an action figure, and a backstory.
I don't really mind the EU giving everyone backstory. It just gets out of hand when everyone we saw on screen has to be the best ever, or the biggest star, or somehow important that only makes sense from an outside-universe perspective.
That was also a problem with the stories themselves- after awhile, every single novel and comic was about the fate of the galaxy, and big-huge questions about the nature of the Force and whether the Jedi were really in the right on a given subject. It just turned to noise.
I don't really mind the EU giving everyone backstory. It just gets out of hand when everyone we saw on screen has to be the best ever, or the biggest star, or somehow important that only makes sense from an outside-universe perspective.
That was also a problem with the stories themselves- after awhile, every single novel and comic was about the fate of the galaxy, and big-huge questions about the nature of the Force and whether the Jedi were really in the right on a given subject. It just turned to noise.
Yeah, like, I don’t mind doing a deep dive into Max Rebo's past. Hell, I pitched a fanfic on it last (?) page. It's the idea that these side characters had to be important to be interesting that seemed to be the trap.
They really don't! But I can definitely see that as a factor in convincing a publisher you're not wasting their time, or wasting their IP on something no one is going want a toy made out of.
An anthology set on the periphery of an important event like the old Jabba's Palace ones were are great, so long as they don't over do it. That book really felt like the "best" of them (and fuck whatever that Legend's wiki says, Max Rebo's band were basically washouts who got roped into playing for Jabba). But all the stories basically interesected and interacted with the main story of the movie...except none of them mattered to it. About the closest thing that came to that was the torture droid figuring out that Lando/The Droids/Leia etc, were all a conspiracy, but incorrectly assuming they were after him. And the little detail like R2 winding up serving drinks, and 3P0 being the interpreter are because Lando sabotaged the other droids prior to them showing up show's the extra depth to the plan in a good way.
Unlike the above example of the little R5 that blew his motivator because the Force told him to.
An anthology set on the periphery of an important event like the old Jabba's Palace ones were are great, so long as they don't over do it. That book really felt like the "best" of them (and fuck whatever that Legend's wiki says, Max Rebo's band were basically washouts who got roped into playing for Jabba). But all the stories basically interesected and interacted with the main story of the movie...except none of them mattered to it. About the closest thing that came to that was the torture droid figuring out that Lando/The Droids/Leia etc, were all a conspiracy, but incorrectly assuming they were after him. And the little detail like R2 winding up serving drinks, and 3P0 being the interpreter are because Lando sabotaged the other droids prior to them showing up show's the extra depth to the plan in a good way.
Unlike the above example of the little R5 that blew his motivator because the Force told him to.
These are the books that I tend to think of when people talk about the EU MarySueing any background character. Maybe it's different in the comics or some of the other books that I haven't read though. I hadn't realized that Rebo's band was a galaxy wide name because they played for some crime boss on a crappy back water. But, I suppose an amazing management team could have parlayed the notoriety of Jabba's death into more renown.
In these books, the only thing that all the characters have in common is they happened to be in the right place (or, in some cases, the very, very wrong place) when the plot rolled through. And it makes sense to me that the crowd at a spacer bar wouldn't be your average Joe Moisture Farmer stopping by for a drink after a hard day of farming moisture, or the beings hanging out in a crime lord's den probably aren't killing time on their weekend from their boring daily data entry job.
Though, to be honest, that last might make for an entertaining story.
"Mr. Sleazebagano, you would not believe the weekend I had..."
"Whips out a thermal detonator, I thought we were all ash right there, but Jabba thought it was hilarious.
"Yeah that Boba Fett. Yeah, a blind guy with a stick..."
"Then he whips out a laser sword, like one of those things the Jedi used to use, and just starts slaughtering dudes like animals..:
"Choked his fat ass to death with her own chain...
"Of course I bailed before it went up, I'm here, aren't I? Had to stay close and claim some useful looking scrap so I could barter a ride from of one of the scavenger crews attracted by the smoke Anyways, that's why I wasn't in yesterday.
"Yes sir, I understand, I'll have my desk cleaned out by noon.
see317 on
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
edited July 2017
I'm reading knight errant right now and I love that it's a stupid backwater brush conflict between two insane sith lords where only a few Jedi are getting involved. There's no greater destiny or fate of the galaxy at stake. Just a few lives and planets no one cares about.
Bloods End on
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Did I need a book on how Boba Fett escaped the sarlacc pit and was nursed back to health by his rival and head-wrap enthusiast Dengar?
Yes. Yes I did.
I read that one.
It had some of the better interpersonal working relationships I've seen in Star Wars up to today. It wasn't Thrawn-Pallaeon, but it was pretty damn good.
Granted, even today the standards aren't super high, but I remember that sticking out.
The whole fiasco with IG-88 taking over the universe was kind of dumb though.
After a while they will have retconned all non-movie material one way or another. It's why I think most people were okay with them chucking the EU and picking the best parts to expand on. Like, as sad as I am that Young Jedi Knights was made pointless, I'm also glad that certain stories got to be left behind. I loved Boba Fett as a kid but only because he got expanded on in the EU. Movie Boba just kinda looks cool, threatens people with guns, and dies to blind dude with a stick (Slapstick Solo strikes again!)
Worst loss of the whole deal was Kyle Katarn. He was one of the few EU heroes who felt like a part of the original trilogy proper.
Wait, are you two talking about the Tales of the Bounty Hunters short story anthology (which was a mixed bag, but had some cool bits), or the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy by K.W. Jeter? I seem to remember really enjoying the latter, though off the top of my head the space arachnid information broker is the only new character from it whose name I remember; Kud'ar Mub'at. Also, the cyborg bounty hunter with a laser cannon for a head was ridiculously dumb in that kind of way that's totally awesome while you're reading it.
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I blame Tolkien. If he hadn't written so goddamn much about Middle-Earth, we wouldn't be in this situation where folks want more and want it all connected and explained and consistent.
As long as it doesn't change the narrative outcome
Nah, some people just can't let shit go. I'm pretty sure there was that guy in Ancient Greece nagging the priests about, "How could Heracles be fighting the Hydra at Lerna AND traveling to Crete to slay the Bull at the same time?!?!?"
Yes. Yes I did.
They are two minute cartoons for kids (specifically young girls). You don't have to watch it if you don't like it, man.
I'm sure that story has a quiet moment or two that we could spruce up with some adventure. What if during a trip to the store to pick up blue milk, Dengar has some crazy run in that changes absolutely nothing by the time it's over? Then we can find out that while we thought Boba was resting and waiting for his blue milk, he actually got better, went back to the Sarlaac pit to pee in it, only to fall in again. He can have an adventure down there and be injured again by the time Dengar gets back. Really fill in all the gaps in that story.
I read that one.
It had some of the better interpersonal working relationships I've seen in Star Wars up to today. It wasn't Thrawn-Pallaeon, but it was pretty damn good.
Granted, even today the standards aren't super high, but I remember that sticking out.
The whole fiasco with IG-88 taking over the universe was kind of dumb though.
Worst loss of the whole deal was Kyle Katarn. He was one of the few EU heroes who felt like a part of the original trilogy proper.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I like to think DF and other obnoxious early FPS* mazes made my Minecraft career possible. Never leave the wall.
*(I have a vague recollection of a particularily labyrinthine nightmare, in vibrant CGA color, that is probably a Might and Magic game)
Steam ID: Good Life
He's not wrong.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Steam ID: Good Life
Katarn had a lot of cool moments outside stealing the plans so he could still be around and be badass imo
I feel like Cassian Andor was basically Kyle Katarn. He just didn't live long enough to ever become a Jedi. Just like Jyn Erso was practically Jan Ors.
And Kylo is kind of like a Jacen analogue. I think Rey will basically be the Ben analogue.
They've done a good job reintegrating quite a few of the cool things from the old EU. Thrawn being the biggest evidence for me that they are willing to bring the good stuff over to the new official canon.
Which gives me hope that they will eventually bring over equivalents for Mara Jade.
But fans lost it when Thrawn showed up for a reason. We all got attached to those characters and it did sting to see it overnight become better written fan fiction, essentially. I know if they even threw in a tiny nod to Katarn in Rogue One I would have had the dumbest smile on my face.
I remember when Mara Jade showed up in Masters of Tera Kasi game and was so amazed to see her in motion.
How did he drop the ball on a "from a certain point of view" reference?
Steam ID: Good Life
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
RIP Skippy the droid
Perfect Weapon shows they are keeping that tradition alive.
A number of the interludes in Aftermath do too.
Steam ID: Good Life
But yeah the EU's issue was usually being tonally inconsistent. A lot of stories with post-RotJ Luke did some really weird shit with him. He fell to the dark side like 6 times, betrayed his friends, but none of that matters because you know by the end of that book or comic it'll be reset to zero. Pretty sure Shadows of the Empire was the first real stab at having a cohesive EU story with Lucas involved, but even then it just felt like filling blanks.
I kind of liked that about the EU. I liked knowing that every person that was hanging out in that Cantina on Mos Eisley, or sitting in Jabba's throne room or whatever, they all had their own story, their own goals. It showed that while the Empire Vs. Rebellion may be the largest story at the time, it wasn't the only one.
Which, for a setting that encompases an entire galaxy seems kind of important.
My biggest gripe about the old EU is the Max Rebo band. In the movies they were just a little backwater house band for gangsters. In the EU they were..... just silly.
Of course everyone has a "story", but 99.999% of people do boring, workaday shit, even in a galaxy far, far away, which doesn't make for good entertainment. Turning every single background extra into a mary sue is wildly unnecessary and just shows how unimaginative most of the EU was.
Yeah it's fluff like this that makes the galaxy seem smaller.
Really? The house band for a mobster on a backwater planet had galactic name recognition?
Look, it really wasn't just the result of the EU, the actual licensed merch was ridiculous with that stuff.
Like this guy
Willrow Hood.
A guy who had two seconds of screentime where he runs down the hallways with an ice-cream maker. This guy got a CCG card, an action figure, and a backstory.
That was also a problem with the stories themselves- after awhile, every single novel and comic was about the fate of the galaxy, and big-huge questions about the nature of the Force and whether the Jedi were really in the right on a given subject. It just turned to noise.
Yeah, like, I don’t mind doing a deep dive into Max Rebo's past. Hell, I pitched a fanfic on it last (?) page. It's the idea that these side characters had to be important to be interesting that seemed to be the trap.
They really don't! But I can definitely see that as a factor in convincing a publisher you're not wasting their time, or wasting their IP on something no one is going want a toy made out of.
Unlike the above example of the little R5 that blew his motivator because the Force told him to.
..Except that Skippy the Jedi Droid is a deliberately absurd story written for humor's sake and has never been considered canon.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
These are the books that I tend to think of when people talk about the EU MarySueing any background character. Maybe it's different in the comics or some of the other books that I haven't read though. I hadn't realized that Rebo's band was a galaxy wide name because they played for some crime boss on a crappy back water. But, I suppose an amazing management team could have parlayed the notoriety of Jabba's death into more renown.
In these books, the only thing that all the characters have in common is they happened to be in the right place (or, in some cases, the very, very wrong place) when the plot rolled through. And it makes sense to me that the crowd at a spacer bar wouldn't be your average Joe Moisture Farmer stopping by for a drink after a hard day of farming moisture, or the beings hanging out in a crime lord's den probably aren't killing time on their weekend from their boring daily data entry job.
Though, to be honest, that last might make for an entertaining story.
"Mr. Sleazebagano, you would not believe the weekend I had..."
"Whips out a thermal detonator, I thought we were all ash right there, but Jabba thought it was hilarious.
"Yeah that Boba Fett. Yeah, a blind guy with a stick..."
"Then he whips out a laser sword, like one of those things the Jedi used to use, and just starts slaughtering dudes like animals..:
"Choked his fat ass to death with her own chain...
"Of course I bailed before it went up, I'm here, aren't I? Had to stay close and claim some useful looking scrap so I could barter a ride from of one of the scavenger crews attracted by the smoke Anyways, that's why I wasn't in yesterday.
"Yes sir, I understand, I'll have my desk cleaned out by noon.
Wait, are you two talking about the Tales of the Bounty Hunters short story anthology (which was a mixed bag, but had some cool bits), or the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy by K.W. Jeter? I seem to remember really enjoying the latter, though off the top of my head the space arachnid information broker is the only new character from it whose name I remember; Kud'ar Mub'at. Also, the cyborg bounty hunter with a laser cannon for a head was ridiculously dumb in that kind of way that's totally awesome while you're reading it.