Just a small note. In the second list Kharn is always a member of the World Eaters legion so for the zerkers to get rerolls they would also have to be World Eaters which would make them troops
Wouldn't mess up your detachment at all though
Yeah that was just me messing with battle scribe. Biggest issue is WE cannot take sorcs so you need to put them in a different attachment.
You don't, they just can't be World Eaters. They can be in the same detachment no problems.
This can't be stressed enough, because a lot of people still can't quite wrap their heads around it: Units in a detachment only have to share a single faction keyword. Units in a battleforged army only have to share a single faction keyword.
There are a few exceptions to this, like Ynnari detachments can't include coven units and Mechanicus detachments loose canticles if other Imperium units are par part of the detachment.
Missing ot on some benefits might be more of a thing for mixed detachments when the codices come out.
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There are a few exceptions to this, like Ynnari detachments can't include coven units and Mechanicus detachments loose canticles if other Imperium units are par part of the detachment.
Missing ot on some benefits might be more of a thing for mixed detachments when the codices come out.
Ynnari detachments can't even include non-Ynnari, non-Coven units according to the errata. This sort of thing will definitely be happening in the codices whether it's a hard lock (no-non <Faction> units allowed) or soft (lose rule X if you include non-<Faction> units) it will happen. You might even get rules similar to the Brood Brothers bit to allow "classic" alliances back in (I can just see an Alpha Legion list being allowed to include Guardsmen to represent the Legion's infiltration and subversion of their command structure, or Word Bearers being allowed to add their legion keyword to daemon units in their detachment and so grant them character aura bonuses).
so had a game with @Nax yesterday and this rule of cover saves came up that since my wyvern can't see what it's shooting at behind a building that it gets cover? So essentially if you indirect fire anything you are always giving that cover? Seems janky but... whatever. Is there any clarity on that?
so had a game with Nax yesterday and this rule of cover saves came up that since my wyvern can't see what it's shooting at behind a building that it gets cover? So essentially if you indirect fire anything you are always giving that cover? Seems janky but... whatever. Is there any clarity on that?
The unit itself would have to be completely inside a terrain feature that gave a cover save to get a one I'm pretty sure.
I.e. It doesn't matter if your Griffon can draw a line of sight or not; it is dependent on where the unit you are shooting is.
so had a game with Nax yesterday and this rule of cover saves came up that since my wyvern can't see what it's shooting at behind a building that it gets cover? So essentially if you indirect fire anything you are always giving that cover? Seems janky but... whatever. Is there any clarity on that?
The unit itself would have to be completely inside a terrain feature that gave a cover save to get a one I'm pretty sure.
I.e. It doesn't matter if your Griffon can draw a line of sight or not; it is dependent on where the unit you are shooting is.
I think that is the case at any rate.
Hmmm.... Upon seeing his take on it, and re-reading everything, I now believe this to be the case...
Whirlwinds are back in my favor again :P
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I've made a couple passes through the main rule book & seen nothing that lets you get cover unless the unit is at least entirely standing in a terrain feature that grants cover (& non infantry need to be obscured as well) or within an inch of a fortification that has a rule that grants cover. Yet I have on several occasions had people swear that cover from intervening units and other stuff still exists but not be able to tell me where it says that.
I dont see why intervening models wouldnt count for the 50% obstruction required for non-infantry, but I definitely agree that for infantry it is strictly whether or not every model in the unit is in terrain. Though, I suppose this raises an odd situation where a model that is not even in LoS is outside of terrain, so the entire unit loses it?
Nax on
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The unit must be at least 50% obscured from the point of view of the firer (note that it doesn’t matter what is obscuring the target, only that it is obscured).
So, if you have a ruin with one open side. Then there is a Rhino parked inside the ruin. If you then park a second rhino between a firing model and the rhino in the ruin, obscuring half of it, the rhino in the ruin would have a cover save.
Also, Rhino in a Ruin is my new kids storybook idea. Don't steal it.
Nax on
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I dont see why intervening models wouldnt count for the 50% obstruction required for non-infantry, but I definitely agree that for infantry it is strictly whether or not every model in the unit is in terrain. Though, I suppose this raises an odd situation where a model that is not even in LoS is outside of terrain, so the entire unit loses it?
Pretty sure some of this was in the FAQ.
Some of the cover rules from the FAQ:
Page 248 – Woods
Change the last sentence of the first paragraph of rules
text to read:
‘Other units only receive the benefit of cover if at least
50% of every model is obscured from the point of view
of the shooting model.’
Page 248 – Ruins
Change the first paragraph of rules text to read:
‘Unless they can Fly, Vehicles, Monsters, Cavalry
and Bikers can only be set up or end their move on the
ground floor of ruins.’
Change the third paragraph of rules text to read:
‘Infantry units that are on a ruin receive the benefit of
cover. Other units only receive the benefit of cover if at
least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of
view of the shooting model.’
Page 249 – Craters
Change the first paragraph of rules text to read:
‘Infantry units that are entirely within a crater receive
the benefit of cover.’
Page 249 – Barricades
Change the first sentence of rules text to read:
‘When a model targets an enemy Infantry unit that has
all of its models within 1" of a barricade, the target unit
receives the benefit of cover if the attacking model is
closer to the barricade than it is to the target.’
Q. Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’
and ‘within’ for rules purposes?
A. If a rule says it affects units/models that are ‘wholly
within’ then it only applies if the entire unit/model is
within. If it just says ‘within’, however, then it applies so
long as any part of the unit/model is within.
For example, units gain the benefit of cover if every
model in the unit is either on or within terrain. So long
as all the models in that unit are either on or partially
within the terrain, they gain the benefit of cover.
Q. Do units that are not Infantry (Vehicles, Monsters
etc.) gain the benefit of cover from woods, ruins etc. if they are at
least 50% obscured by that piece of terrain but are not actually
on or within it?
A. No. Unless they are Infantry, such a unit must meet
the two following conditions to gain the benefit of cover:
• All of its models must be either on or within the terrain.
• The unit must be at least 50% obscured from the point
of view of the firer (note that it doesn’t matter what is
obscuring the target, only that it is obscured).
And reading the rules: "Units fully with in terrain receive a cover bonus of +1 to their armor save."
There is zero wording in the rule book about obscuring via units anymore. So it gives 0 cover.
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Thankfully there's the boxed text in the terrain section that lets you do things like just count bases of terrain as getting cover. (and why on earth doesn't being behind a hill grant cover?) We've also counted obscured by units. Really irritating that an edition all about abstraction dropped the ball on terrain and cover so much.
Yeah, the new cover rules are just stupid. I get that GW wants to make the games go a lot faster (see also: mortal wounds, battleshock), but the current cover rules create a lot of situations that make zero sense.
Since GW seem to be pushing people to make up their own terrain rules/datasheets for their home-made terrain (they only provide rules for terrain you can buy from GW) we quickly set a set of "default" terrain rules for games in our group based on the specific examples in the advanced rules. Because terrain rules are a fucking mess in the main book.
Our terrain rules are:
Area Terrain as in the book
All terrain provides get cover if it obscures a model/unit by 50% or more.
The FW FAQs for the Index:Chaos and Index:Astartes books are up now. No more Rapier for me
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Thankfully there's the boxed text in the terrain section that lets you do things like just count bases of terrain as getting cover. (and why on earth doesn't being behind a hill grant cover?) We've also counted obscured by units. Really irritating that an edition all about abstraction dropped the ball on terrain and cover so much.
IRL indirect fire from a mortar or something dropping from the sky gives no shits about the hill or dudes in front of you, while being in a building might provide some cover, depending on the type of shell.
Thankfully there's the boxed text in the terrain section that lets you do things like just count bases of terrain as getting cover. (and why on earth doesn't being behind a hill grant cover?) We've also counted obscured by units. Really irritating that an edition all about abstraction dropped the ball on terrain and cover so much.
IRL indirect fire from a mortar or something dropping from the sky gives no shits about the hill or dudes in front of you, while being in a building might provide some cover, depending on the type of shell.
And you can play ASL if you want to model airbursting tree mortars, vs open ground mortars, vs building cover.
Went into a new store that has opened in the area, and the guy gave me a free promotional Primaris Intercessor. It's one of the "Easy to Assemble" snap fit ones, and I have to say that I am pretty impressed with it. Went together super clean and easy, and I likely won't even bother gluing it
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Re-working my list now, and the removal of the Rapier works out alright for me. The increase of points for the Exalted Sorceror meant I couldn't afford it anyway. One less model to paint in a month.
Ooops, stray unit of cultists I don't have. Now I have 123 points to try and spend.
Chrysis on
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Sorry rolled dice in person for the first time in almost 6+ years. And it was good. I have pics and a full report though we only made 3 complete turns due to time and when we got in. I won on points due to being obsessed with objectives. My opponent was more about killing stuff. With his list I can see why. I hit the meta boyz and I survived.
So I decided to use the list that let me use 100% painted units. It just looks better right? So no Kharn or termis but instead I have a daemon prince and two rhinos basically. List will be in a spoiler on the bottom of this post.
So first the board with armies:
You can see the land raider and the vindi blocking my daemon prince there.
The havocs are on the roof and the rhinos with their plasma squads. My defiler is peaking around while my reroll cheap lord hides next to it.
So my opponents list had 4 flyers. Ugh. It was a guard/Imperium list including Cypher and some plasma fallen on one flank. Two huge conscript blobs. Some of the forgeworld stuff that is really good with lascannons. Basically it is his list for NOVA and he was testing it today. He was expecting to play Orks but got me instead. After the first turn I moved up and grabbed all the objectives on my side easily.
My landraider at this point had absorbed about 20 shots and taken a total of 2 wounds. Thing is a fucking beast. It lives till turn three. It is now my top unit. The havocs did a lot of work thanks to split fire as well.
So most of the game is me and him fighting my land raider on the side. I am absorbing insane fire. I did get first blood wiping out one of his flyers with lascannon fire. He got the warlord killing my hiding warlord by the defiler with dropped psions? Guard dropped in my back with plasma and lasguns. He got my landraider and my vindi. I saced my raptors dumbly and should of been better. The new deep strike rules means I should use them more carefully. My winged prince did do well ripping up a Valk but couldn't finish it.
His army had the guard flyers with a billion shots. The vultures. They would of shreaded a squad of csm but they hid in a building getting a 2+ save. God that is nuts.
Overall I had fun. I won on points due to calling it do to time. Another turn or two would of been rough for me with the army being out of the boxes.
Also boxes man, holy shit my Rhinos never died all game till the very end. It was nuts. Basically my armor was showing well today verse the army.
Also fighting through conscript blobs backed by commissars are just a pain in the ass.
Things I noticed:
1)People still don't get cover+terrain and are trying to use old rules. So our talk earlier was useful for me.
2)Ugh, I still hate killing guard
3)Not sure what do with my vindi. Just not the powerhouse he use to be. Tough as nails though.
4)I saw tons of armies of different types today. Ork stompa/boyz. Ork truks with tank hunters/burnas/lootas. Ravenwing with Celestine support. Black Templar with a land raider crusader. The IG army I played. There was a Crimson Fist army. Even saw bloody Cypher out on the field today. Cypher!
So 8th has its talons in me now. I want a pred though. Shit would of been nice for the lasfire. Also putting some more bodies with bolters with my havocs to sacrifice. Split fire on havocs is great.
Also boxes man, holy shit my Rhinos never died all game till the very end. It was nuts. Basically my armor was showing well today verse the army.
In the game I played against @altmann yesterday, my Rhino was my close combat MVP. Killed 3 or 4 marines in a combat that lasted pretty much all game
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also... termies are still insane against anything that isn't -ap. Good lord. I will burn the relic of caliban and Ragnar straight up bitchslapped Azrael so I was ok with the other things...
I'm debating my next death guard army addition. It's either going to be a chaos rhino, lascannon pred, or lascannon helbrute. I can't decide!
I vote the pred.
Its my next edition. Just magnetize it so you can swap it around as you want. Pred cannons and the twin las cannons are both great. The side sponsons are good no matter what you put there.
My helbrute was using a missile launcher today. It was okay. I missed the multiple shots of autocannons or the twin lascannon.
If the Pred kits these days are anything like the Baal Pred kit that came out a bit ago, you really don't even need to magentize most of it. Just slots in pretty well for the most part
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If the Pred kits these days are anything like the Baal Pred kit that came out a bit ago, you really don't even need to magentize most of it. Just slots in pretty well for the most part
I think the pred is going to be my pick. Rhinos won't be really good with my list until 2k, but the predator adds 4 lascannons, havoc launchers, and a combi weapon to run around, hunting high value targets. I need some more "quality" shots for hurting scary things, alongside 3 casters with 2 spells each hitting you with 3x smite/turn. Gosh darn I love nurgle.
If the Pred kits these days are anything like the Baal Pred kit that came out a bit ago, you really don't even need to magentize most of it. Just slots in pretty well for the most part
I think the pred is going to be my pick. Rhinos won't be really good with my list until 2k, but the predator adds 4 lascannons, havoc launchers, and a combi weapon to run around, hunting high value targets. I need some more "quality" shots for hurting scary things, alongside 3 casters with 2 spells each hitting you with 3x smite/turn. Gosh darn I love nurgle.
So with my list today some of the stuff I did was add the havocs and moved points to get at least a missile launcher and a lascannon. If I had the model I would do double las/double heavy bolters. Heavy bolters also were as good as promised taking out a few heavy weapons squads today.
The d6 damage on lascannons is a god send though verse so many vehicles/monstrous creatures. One of the few ways to take down some things quickly and efficiently.
So after a few weeks, the first general rule of 8th locally seems to be this: Don't take one big thing in your list, it will just die or be crippled after turn one. Most list here have so many lascannons or other long ranged heavy guns floating around (or 6+ crisis commanders with meltas) that it will be dead or at least crippled by after turn one without very good saves on your part. With 'big thing' meaning a Knight, wraithknight, that big tau suit, necron vault thing.
However I'll be interested to see how long that last after the actually codexes drop and after our first 8th tournament last weekend. There were a lot of very low deployment numbers lists, in the 3-5 range, so very elite armies that expected to go first mostly. Almost all of them ran into orks in one of their three games and got swamped with more bodies than they could possible kill in a game and cannot out run thanks to da jump power. One guy did play 4 knights, 2 paladins/2 crusaders I think, and did well though, but he got match with the one necron player that had a Pylon, which is pretty much made to kill a knight a turn and I don't think it has to start on the board so can't be shot first.
So after a few weeks, the first general rule of 8th locally seems to be this: Don't take one big thing in your list, it will just die or be crippled after turn one. Most list here have so many lascannons or other long ranged heavy guns floating around (or 6+ crisis commanders with meltas) that it will be dead or at least crippled by after turn one without very good saves on your part. With 'big thing' meaning a Knight, wraithknight, that big tau suit, necron vault thing.
However I'll be interested to see how long that last after the actually codexes drop and after our first 8th tournament last weekend. There were a lot of very low deployment numbers lists, in the 3-5 range, so very elite armies that expected to go first mostly. Almost all of them ran into orks in one of their three games and got swamped with more bodies than they could possible kill in a game and cannot out run thanks to da jump power. One guy did play 4 knights, 2 paladins/2 crusaders I think, and did well though, but he got match with the one necron player that had a Pylon, which is pretty much made to kill a knight a turn and I don't think it has to start on the board so can't be shot first.
GW says they're committed to balance now, though, so we'll likely see some changes after drowning in IG conscripts for a while.
So after a few weeks, the first general rule of 8th locally seems to be this: Don't take one big thing in your list, it will just die or be crippled after turn one. Most list here have so many lascannons or other long ranged heavy guns floating around (or 6+ crisis commanders with meltas) that it will be dead or at least crippled by after turn one without very good saves on your part. With 'big thing' meaning a Knight, wraithknight, that big tau suit, necron vault thing.
However I'll be interested to see how long that last after the actually codexes drop and after our first 8th tournament last weekend. There were a lot of very low deployment numbers lists, in the 3-5 range, so very elite armies that expected to go first mostly. Almost all of them ran into orks in one of their three games and got swamped with more bodies than they could possible kill in a game and cannot out run thanks to da jump power. One guy did play 4 knights, 2 paladins/2 crusaders I think, and did well though, but he got match with the one necron player that had a Pylon, which is pretty much made to kill a knight a turn and I don't think it has to start on the board so can't be shot first.
I'm still working on getting those quality shots but 3x smite will almost delete something a turn. You really need backups of important units.
In unrelated matters, is anyone familiar with equipping champions for chaos marine units? I'm trying to trick out my plague marines and battlescribe seems to be indicating I get to trade 1 Combi-weapon + a powerfist for the bolt pistol+bolter. But the way I understood the champion equipment list, you'd get either the combi OR 2 items from the champ list. Don't want to illegally get too much melta!
So after a few weeks, the first general rule of 8th locally seems to be this: Don't take one big thing in your list, it will just die or be crippled after turn one. Most list here have so many lascannons or other long ranged heavy guns floating around (or 6+ crisis commanders with meltas) that it will be dead or at least crippled by after turn one without very good saves on your part. With 'big thing' meaning a Knight, wraithknight, that big tau suit, necron vault thing.
However I'll be interested to see how long that last after the actually codexes drop and after our first 8th tournament last weekend. There were a lot of very low deployment numbers lists, in the 3-5 range, so very elite armies that expected to go first mostly. Almost all of them ran into orks in one of their three games and got swamped with more bodies than they could possible kill in a game and cannot out run thanks to da jump power. One guy did play 4 knights, 2 paladins/2 crusaders I think, and did well though, but he got match with the one necron player that had a Pylon, which is pretty much made to kill a knight a turn and I don't think it has to start on the board so can't be shot first.
I'm still working on getting those quality shots but 3x smite will almost delete something a turn. You really need backups of important units.
In unrelated matters, is anyone familiar with equipping champions for chaos marine units? I'm trying to trick out my plague marines and battlescribe seems to be indicating I get to trade 1 Combi-weapon + a powerfist for the bolt pistol+bolter. But the way I understood the champion equipment list, you'd get either the combi OR 2 items from the champ list. Don't want to illegally get too much melta!
You replace your bolter or pistol with the weapons.
Basically figure you get 1 shooter and 1 pistol/melee. I can double check later in my index.
So combimelta+powerfist? You are good.
Combimelta+plasma pistol? Should be good if I remember right.
Combimelta+combimelta? Not sure I can do that but again have to look at the index.
So after a few weeks, the first general rule of 8th locally seems to be this: Don't take one big thing in your list, it will just die or be crippled after turn one. Most list here have so many lascannons or other long ranged heavy guns floating around (or 6+ crisis commanders with meltas) that it will be dead or at least crippled by after turn one without very good saves on your part. With 'big thing' meaning a Knight, wraithknight, that big tau suit, necron vault thing.
However I'll be interested to see how long that last after the actually codexes drop and after our first 8th tournament last weekend. There were a lot of very low deployment numbers lists, in the 3-5 range, so very elite armies that expected to go first mostly. Almost all of them ran into orks in one of their three games and got swamped with more bodies than they could possible kill in a game and cannot out run thanks to da jump power. One guy did play 4 knights, 2 paladins/2 crusaders I think, and did well though, but he got match with the one necron player that had a Pylon, which is pretty much made to kill a knight a turn and I don't think it has to start on the board so can't be shot first.
I'm still working on getting those quality shots but 3x smite will almost delete something a turn. You really need backups of important units.
In unrelated matters, is anyone familiar with equipping champions for chaos marine units? I'm trying to trick out my plague marines and battlescribe seems to be indicating I get to trade 1 Combi-weapon + a powerfist for the bolt pistol+bolter. But the way I understood the champion equipment list, you'd get either the combi OR 2 items from the champ list. Don't want to illegally get too much melta!
You replace your bolter or pistol with the weapons.
Basically figure you get 1 shooter and 1 pistol/melee. I can double check later in my index.
So combimelta+powerfist? You are good.
Combimelta+plasma pistol? Should be good if I remember right.
Combimelta+combimelta? Not sure I can do that but again have to look at the index.
Ok, I'm pretty sure the rule is then no double combi. Which is great. Squad is Champion power fist/combi-melta, a blight launcher, and a plasma gun. Seems like enough dakka.
Well its more that people here just had not been building list with massed infantry in mind once 8th hit, rather than them being impossible to deal with. The top 3 guys in the first tourny were a mixed chaos list with a bunch of flamer daemons and magnus, a CSM list I dont remember, and a Mechanicus list with a bunch of duncrawlers and electropriest (for mortal would spam) and Cawl. Of the two I remember both would be able to deal with hoard armies. I just think here a whole bunch of people decided to game the deployment system and then ran into the one army that kinda hard counters those list. Which is a somewhat understandable mistake since I don't think anyone played orcs or guard here in over a year and had be focusing on hyper elite deathstar units.
Most of the guard list I have been trying around could probably deal with hoards, just I haven't really run into anyone playing them yet other than one guy with a massed infantry tau list that I just out lasted. But I have been putting things like 3 mortar squads in every list just for extra anti-infantry when others have been trying to fit as many lascannons as possible in lists. Also usually run 4-9 infantry squads with flamers and lascannons that I might swap to missile launchers for extra versatility if I start seeing more orks, which would be great as every list I've made has had yarrick in it.
Think the next list I may try is 5-6 of those infantry squads & the 3 mortar ones with several supporting characters guarding a shadowsword on a skyshield while a knight and some scout sentinels run around the board. Might be fun with all the superheavies around here. Think someone is going actually start running Scabeiathrax with his Death Guard this week.
The FW FAQs for the Index:Chaos and Index:Astartes books are up now. No more Rapier for me
That's pretty stupid.
On the other hand, I can use Sonic Dreads now. 2 Blastmasters on a dread sounds pretty nice to me
Yeah, kind of dumb that only the Rapier gets forbidden. To Death Guard as well for some reason. I think I'll still run it for now, it'll just have to be Tousind Suns, the Thousand Sons illiterate cousins.
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My brother and I picked up the Chaos and Xenos 2 books yesterday. Store didn't have a rulebook in stock, so we'll have to get that later. Took a look at the Ork list and it looks pretty solid. I'm excited to run some Deff Dreads, and I really dig the rules for Buggies, Wartrakks and Skorchas (they need new models for all three, though). And I'm in love with 3 wound Meganobz and kombi-skorchas that can keep firing the skorcha part.
Posts
This can't be stressed enough, because a lot of people still can't quite wrap their heads around it: Units in a detachment only have to share a single faction keyword. Units in a battleforged army only have to share a single faction keyword.
(E.g., Chaos in Mazzyx' list.)
Missing ot on some benefits might be more of a thing for mixed detachments when the codices come out.
Ynnari detachments can't even include non-Ynnari, non-Coven units according to the errata. This sort of thing will definitely be happening in the codices whether it's a hard lock (no-non <Faction> units allowed) or soft (lose rule X if you include non-<Faction> units) it will happen. You might even get rules similar to the Brood Brothers bit to allow "classic" alliances back in (I can just see an Alpha Legion list being allowed to include Guardsmen to represent the Legion's infiltration and subversion of their command structure, or Word Bearers being allowed to add their legion keyword to daemon units in their detachment and so grant them character aura bonuses).
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The unit itself would have to be completely inside a terrain feature that gave a cover save to get a one I'm pretty sure.
I.e. It doesn't matter if your Griffon can draw a line of sight or not; it is dependent on where the unit you are shooting is.
I think that is the case at any rate.
Hmmm.... Upon seeing his take on it, and re-reading everything, I now believe this to be the case...
Whirlwinds are back in my favor again :P
The FAQ for the rulebook explains it a bit better.
So, if you have a ruin with one open side. Then there is a Rhino parked inside the ruin. If you then park a second rhino between a firing model and the rhino in the ruin, obscuring half of it, the rhino in the ruin would have a cover save.
Also, Rhino in a Ruin is my new kids storybook idea. Don't steal it.
Pretty sure some of this was in the FAQ.
Some of the cover rules from the FAQ:
Change the last sentence of the first paragraph of rules
text to read:
‘Other units only receive the benefit of cover if at least
50% of every model is obscured from the point of view
of the shooting model.’
Page 248 – Ruins
Change the first paragraph of rules text to read:
‘Unless they can Fly, Vehicles, Monsters, Cavalry
and Bikers can only be set up or end their move on the
ground floor of ruins.’
Change the third paragraph of rules text to read:
‘Infantry units that are on a ruin receive the benefit of
cover. Other units only receive the benefit of cover if at
least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of
view of the shooting model.’
Page 249 – Craters
Change the first paragraph of rules text to read:
‘Infantry units that are entirely within a crater receive
the benefit of cover.’
Page 249 – Barricades
Change the first sentence of rules text to read:
‘When a model targets an enemy Infantry unit that has
all of its models within 1" of a barricade, the target unit
receives the benefit of cover if the attacking model is
closer to the barricade than it is to the target.’
Q. Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’
and ‘within’ for rules purposes?
A. If a rule says it affects units/models that are ‘wholly
within’ then it only applies if the entire unit/model is
within. If it just says ‘within’, however, then it applies so
long as any part of the unit/model is within.
For example, units gain the benefit of cover if every
model in the unit is either on or within terrain. So long
as all the models in that unit are either on or partially
within the terrain, they gain the benefit of cover.
Q. Do units that are not Infantry (Vehicles, Monsters
etc.) gain the benefit of cover from woods, ruins etc. if they are at
least 50% obscured by that piece of terrain but are not actually
on or within it?
A. No. Unless they are Infantry, such a unit must meet
the two following conditions to gain the benefit of cover:
• All of its models must be either on or within the terrain.
• The unit must be at least 50% obscured from the point
of view of the firer (note that it doesn’t matter what is
obscuring the target, only that it is obscured).
And reading the rules: "Units fully with in terrain receive a cover bonus of +1 to their armor save."
There is zero wording in the rule book about obscuring via units anymore. So it gives 0 cover.
You need the two things:
1)Be in terrain
2)And be 50% obscured.
So you need 1 before you check for number 2. :hydra:
Thoughts of a Part-Time Hobbyist - A Wargaming and RPG Blog
Our terrain rules are:
IRL indirect fire from a mortar or something dropping from the sky gives no shits about the hill or dudes in front of you, while being in a building might provide some cover, depending on the type of shell.
And you can play ASL if you want to model airbursting tree mortars, vs open ground mortars, vs building cover.
Ooops, stray unit of cultists I don't have. Now I have 123 points to try and spend.
So I decided to use the list that let me use 100% painted units. It just looks better right? So no Kharn or termis but instead I have a daemon prince and two rhinos basically. List will be in a spoiler on the bottom of this post.
So first the board with armies:
You can see the land raider and the vindi blocking my daemon prince there.
The havocs are on the roof and the rhinos with their plasma squads. My defiler is peaking around while my reroll cheap lord hides next to it.
So my opponents list had 4 flyers. Ugh. It was a guard/Imperium list including Cypher and some plasma fallen on one flank. Two huge conscript blobs. Some of the forgeworld stuff that is really good with lascannons. Basically it is his list for NOVA and he was testing it today. He was expecting to play Orks but got me instead. After the first turn I moved up and grabbed all the objectives on my side easily.
My landraider at this point had absorbed about 20 shots and taken a total of 2 wounds. Thing is a fucking beast. It lives till turn three. It is now my top unit. The havocs did a lot of work thanks to split fire as well.
So most of the game is me and him fighting my land raider on the side. I am absorbing insane fire. I did get first blood wiping out one of his flyers with lascannon fire. He got the warlord killing my hiding warlord by the defiler with dropped psions? Guard dropped in my back with plasma and lasguns. He got my landraider and my vindi. I saced my raptors dumbly and should of been better. The new deep strike rules means I should use them more carefully. My winged prince did do well ripping up a Valk but couldn't finish it.
His army had the guard flyers with a billion shots. The vultures. They would of shreaded a squad of csm but they hid in a building getting a 2+ save. God that is nuts.
Overall I had fun. I won on points due to calling it do to time. Another turn or two would of been rough for me with the army being out of the boxes.
Also boxes man, holy shit my Rhinos never died all game till the very end. It was nuts. Basically my armor was showing well today verse the army.
Also fighting through conscript blobs backed by commissars are just a pain in the ass.
Things I noticed:
1)People still don't get cover+terrain and are trying to use old rules. So our talk earlier was useful for me.
2)Ugh, I still hate killing guard
3)Not sure what do with my vindi. Just not the powerhouse he use to be. Tough as nails though.
4)I saw tons of armies of different types today. Ork stompa/boyz. Ork truks with tank hunters/burnas/lootas. Ravenwing with Celestine support. Black Templar with a land raider crusader. The IG army I played. There was a Crimson Fist army. Even saw bloody Cypher out on the field today. Cypher!
So 8th has its talons in me now. I want a pred though. Shit would of been nice for the lasfire. Also putting some more bodies with bolters with my havocs to sacrifice. Split fire on havocs is great.
My list:
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Legion: World Eaters
+ HQ +
Chaos Lord: Combi-flamer, Power fist
Daemon Prince with Wings: Khorne, Malefic talon
+ Troops +
Chaos Space Marines: 9x Chaos Space Marine, No Chaos Mark, 2x Plasma gun
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Lightning claw
Chaos Space Marines: 9x Chaos Space Marine, No Chaos Mark, 2x Plasma gun
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Power fist
Khorne Berzerkers: 7x Khorne Berzerker, 4x Swap bolt pistol or chainsword for chainaxe
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Power sword
+ Elites +
Helbrute: Helbrute fist, Missile launcher
+ Fast Attack +
Raptors: 2x Meltagun, No Chaos Mark, 4x Raptor
. Raptor Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) ++
+ HQ +
Sorcerer: Bolt pistol, Force sword
+ Heavy Support +
Chaos Land Raider: Twin heavy bolter, 2x Twin lascannon
Defiler: Havoc launcher, Reaper autocannon
Havocs: 4x Havoc, 2x Heavy bolter, Lascannon, Missile launcher, No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
+ Dedicated Transport +
Chaos Rhino: Combi-bolter
Chaos Rhino: Combi-bolter
Created with BattleScribe
In the game I played against @altmann yesterday, my Rhino was my close combat MVP. Killed 3 or 4 marines in a combat that lasted pretty much all game
also... termies are still insane against anything that isn't -ap. Good lord. I will burn the relic of caliban and Ragnar straight up bitchslapped Azrael so I was ok with the other things...
"Oh what a day, what a LOVELY DAY!"
I vote the pred.
Its my next edition. Just magnetize it so you can swap it around as you want. Pred cannons and the twin las cannons are both great. The side sponsons are good no matter what you put there.
My helbrute was using a missile launcher today. It was okay. I missed the multiple shots of autocannons or the twin lascannon.
I think the pred is going to be my pick. Rhinos won't be really good with my list until 2k, but the predator adds 4 lascannons, havoc launchers, and a combi weapon to run around, hunting high value targets. I need some more "quality" shots for hurting scary things, alongside 3 casters with 2 spells each hitting you with 3x smite/turn. Gosh darn I love nurgle.
So with my list today some of the stuff I did was add the havocs and moved points to get at least a missile launcher and a lascannon. If I had the model I would do double las/double heavy bolters. Heavy bolters also were as good as promised taking out a few heavy weapons squads today.
The d6 damage on lascannons is a god send though verse so many vehicles/monstrous creatures. One of the few ways to take down some things quickly and efficiently.
However I'll be interested to see how long that last after the actually codexes drop and after our first 8th tournament last weekend. There were a lot of very low deployment numbers lists, in the 3-5 range, so very elite armies that expected to go first mostly. Almost all of them ran into orks in one of their three games and got swamped with more bodies than they could possible kill in a game and cannot out run thanks to da jump power. One guy did play 4 knights, 2 paladins/2 crusaders I think, and did well though, but he got match with the one necron player that had a Pylon, which is pretty much made to kill a knight a turn and I don't think it has to start on the board so can't be shot first.
That's pretty stupid.
On the other hand, I can use Sonic Dreads now. 2 Blastmasters on a dread sounds pretty nice to me
GW says they're committed to balance now, though, so we'll likely see some changes after drowning in IG conscripts for a while.
I'm still working on getting those quality shots but 3x smite will almost delete something a turn. You really need backups of important units.
In unrelated matters, is anyone familiar with equipping champions for chaos marine units? I'm trying to trick out my plague marines and battlescribe seems to be indicating I get to trade 1 Combi-weapon + a powerfist for the bolt pistol+bolter. But the way I understood the champion equipment list, you'd get either the combi OR 2 items from the champ list. Don't want to illegally get too much melta!
You replace your bolter or pistol with the weapons.
Basically figure you get 1 shooter and 1 pistol/melee. I can double check later in my index.
So combimelta+powerfist? You are good.
Combimelta+plasma pistol? Should be good if I remember right.
Combimelta+combimelta? Not sure I can do that but again have to look at the index.
Ok, I'm pretty sure the rule is then no double combi. Which is great. Squad is Champion power fist/combi-melta, a blight launcher, and a plasma gun. Seems like enough dakka.
Most of the guard list I have been trying around could probably deal with hoards, just I haven't really run into anyone playing them yet other than one guy with a massed infantry tau list that I just out lasted. But I have been putting things like 3 mortar squads in every list just for extra anti-infantry when others have been trying to fit as many lascannons as possible in lists. Also usually run 4-9 infantry squads with flamers and lascannons that I might swap to missile launchers for extra versatility if I start seeing more orks, which would be great as every list I've made has had yarrick in it.
Think the next list I may try is 5-6 of those infantry squads & the 3 mortar ones with several supporting characters guarding a shadowsword on a skyshield while a knight and some scout sentinels run around the board. Might be fun with all the superheavies around here. Think someone is going actually start running Scabeiathrax with his Death Guard this week.
Yeah, kind of dumb that only the Rapier gets forbidden. To Death Guard as well for some reason. I think I'll still run it for now, it'll just have to be Tousind Suns, the Thousand Sons illiterate cousins.
"Oh what a day, what a LOVELY DAY!"