Well, I didn't really care what Nick Spencer was up to a decade ago until I found out that it was believing that sex workers were trying to assassinate him. That's fucking upside-down shithouse-rat crazy. That's the kind of crazy that only a better writer than Nick Spencer could come up with.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
It's like the Egyptian myth of passage into the afterlife, where one weighs their heart full of how cool Nazis are against a feather with "whores" written on every barb
Jeff Loveness, who wrote the shockingly good Nova and Groot series as well as the really good Inhuman Error crossover, is doing an indie title that is decidedly different from his past work: Judas.
“Growing up, I always felt sorry for Judas. He’s always portrayed as a villain and the epitome of betrayal, but the entire Christian narrative of redemption and forgiveness hinges on him. He was born and destined to play this part in the story. There was never a chance for him to be anything else. I’m really looking forward to diving into an unexplored corner of Christianity as Judas journeys through Hell, trying to make sense of himself and his place in the story. Judas in Hell is such a striking image to me. Hell is full of broken people, used by God in His grand story, then cast aside forever. Everyone feels alone and wasted… and it’s up to Judas to navigate through them all as he claws towards something resembling closure.”
Jeff Loveness, who wrote the shockingly good Nova and Groot series as well as the really good Inhuman Error crossover, is doing an indie title that is decidedly different from his past work: Judas.
“Growing up, I always felt sorry for Judas. He’s always portrayed as a villain and the epitome of betrayal, but the entire Christian narrative of redemption and forgiveness hinges on him. He was born and destined to play this part in the story. There was never a chance for him to be anything else. I’m really looking forward to diving into an unexplored corner of Christianity as Judas journeys through Hell, trying to make sense of himself and his place in the story. Judas in Hell is such a striking image to me. Hell is full of broken people, used by God in His grand story, then cast aside forever. Everyone feels alone and wasted… and it’s up to Judas to navigate through them all as he claws towards something resembling closure.”
“Growing up, I always felt sorry for Judas. He’s always portrayed as a villain and the epitome of betrayal, but the entire Christian narrative of redemption and forgiveness hinges on him. He was born and destined to play this part in the story. There was never a chance for him to be anything else. I’m really looking forward to diving into an unexplored corner of Christianity as Judas journeys through Hell, trying to make sense of himself and his place in the story. Judas in Hell is such a striking image to me. Hell is full of broken people, used by God in His grand story, then cast aside forever. Everyone feels alone and wasted… and it’s up to Judas to navigate through them all as he claws towards something resembling closure.”
Yeah, there's thing thing called free will.
It didn't have to have been Judas.
"I set before you life and death. Choose life dumbass."
There's absolutely a religious argument that free will doesn't exist and people are predestined for hell. In fact, an entire sect of Christianity revolves around it.
Even if we do abandon the premise of the story, that Judas was destined to be the betrayer, it's still a fascinating idea
He is so reviled that his name, thousands of years later, is synonymous with betrayal and deceit. What would that do to a man? Knowing that your entire legacy fell down to one single decision you made and that it condemned you to being one of mankind's most hated villains?
Even if we do abandon the premise of the story, that Judas was destined to be the betrayer, it's still a fascinating idea
He is so reviled that his name, thousands of years later, is synonymous with betrayal and deceit. What would that do to a man? Knowing that your entire legacy fell down to one single decision you made and that it condemned you to being one of mankind's most hated villains?
Shit's interesting.
I'm sure Benedict Arnold felt a bit like this in the end.
You're free to make whatever kind of statement you want about religion. And there's plenty of ways to show sympathy towards Judas. But the idea that he was FATED to betray Jesus is one I don't buy, and yeah, I can say it's pretty dumb.
If this was a story about Islam or Hinduism that fuddled with random stuff people found eyeroll worthy, it doesn't mean it's not a valuable opinion or they're "trying" to miss the point.
Like, take the religion angle out of it. Selling out one of your trusted friends for some cash to be tortuously killed is a dirtbag thing to do and the infamy is well earned.
You not agreeing with Loveness' view is fine but it doesn't make his view any less valid.
It's a fictional story about Judas in Hell and in this story, Judas was fated to be Jesus' betrayed. He isn't re-writing the Bible or founding his own religious sect.
Also there are loads of stories that tweak stuff in Hinduism and Islam like this. As well as countless ones that tweak Christianity.
I mean, we are in the Marvel thread. Canonically, Ghost Rider is an agent of Heaven powered by an angel. Does that also upset you?
BlankZoe on
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
Even if we do abandon the premise of the story, that Judas was destined to be the betrayer, it's still a fascinating idea
He is so reviled that his name, thousands of years later, is synonymous with betrayal and deceit. What would that do to a man? Knowing that your entire legacy fell down to one single decision you made and that it condemned you to being one of mankind's most hated villains?
Shit's interesting.
I'm sure Benedict Arnold felt a bit like this in the end.
I mean he was in Doctor Strange so he doesn't have much room to complain
You're free to make whatever kind of statement you want about religion. And there's plenty of ways to show sympathy towards Judas. But the idea that he was FATED to betray Jesus is one I don't buy, and yeah, I can say it's pretty dumb.
If this was a story about Islam or Hinduism that fuddled with random stuff people found eyeroll worthy, it doesn't mean it's not a valuable opinion or they're "trying" to miss the point.
Like, take the religion angle out of it. Selling out one of your trusted friends for some cash to be tortuously killed is a dirtbag thing to do and the infamy is well earned.
The thing is
It isn't just infamy
It is infamy on an unprecedented scale. His name is literally a synonym for betrayal. And he was a pretty good dude outside of that one, terrible act, and it has doomed him to being shorthand for duplicitous monster for thousands of years.
You're free to make whatever kind of statement you want about religion. And there's plenty of ways to show sympathy towards Judas. But the idea that he was FATED to betray Jesus is one I don't buy, and yeah, I can say it's pretty dumb.
If this was a story about Islam or Hinduism that fuddled with random stuff people found eyeroll worthy, it doesn't mean it's not a valuable opinion or they're "trying" to miss the point.
Predestination is largely a concept from Abrahamic religions.
This isn't someone fiddling with the narrative. Predestination was already part of the narrative for a thousand or more years.
Even if we do abandon the premise of the story, that Judas was destined to be the betrayer, it's still a fascinating idea
He is so reviled that his name, thousands of years later, is synonymous with betrayal and deceit. What would that do to a man? Knowing that your entire legacy fell down to one single decision you made and that it condemned you to being one of mankind's most hated villains?
Shit's interesting.
I'm sure Benedict Arnold felt a bit like this in the end.
I mean he was in Doctor Strange so he doesn't have much room to complain
You not agreeing with Loveness' view is fine but it doesn't make his view any less valid.
It's a fictional story about Judas in Hell and in this story, Judas was fated to be Jesus' betrayed. He isn't re-writing the Bible or founding his own religious sect.
Also there are loads of stories that tweak stuff in Hinduism and Islam like this. As well as countless ones that tweak Christianity.
I mean, we are in the Marvel thread. Canonically, Ghost Rider is an agent of Heaven powered by an angel. Does that also upset you?
Upset? Well, only in that the movie could have been way better. Plus, John Ostrander was a former seminary student and did a fantastic run on Spectre which is the DC version of Ghost Rider.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Well, I didn't really care what Nick Spencer was up to a decade ago until I found out that it was believing that sex workers were trying to assassinate him. That's fucking upside-down shithouse-rat crazy. That's the kind of crazy that only a better writer than Nick Spencer could come up with.
I think the dude got a little shaken up and is just talking about 'crime' and doing a shit poor job of it.
But again, twelve years ago.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
God has a plan and god knows everything, and everything is part of god's plan. Ergo, even though he gave Judas free will, he did so knowing full well Judas would betray Jesus and in fact Jesus dying for everyone's sins was part of his grand plan.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
You not agreeing with Loveness' view is fine but it doesn't make his view any less valid.
It's a fictional story about Judas in Hell and in this story, Judas was fated to be Jesus' betrayed. He isn't re-writing the Bible or founding his own religious sect.
Also there are loads of stories that tweak stuff in Hinduism and Islam like this. As well as countless ones that tweak Christianity.
I mean, we are in the Marvel thread. Canonically, Ghost Rider is an agent of Heaven powered by an angel. Does that also upset you?
Upset? Well, only in that the movie could have been way better. Plus, John Ostrander was a former seminary student and did a fantastic run on Spectre which is the DC version of Ghost Rider.
You know the Spectre predates Ghost Rider by over 32 years, right?
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masterofmetroidHave you ever looked at a worldand seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered Userregular
I've read enough of Secret Empire (and his run with Sam Wilson has plenty of the same nonsense in it too while we're at it) to know that Nick Spencer has changed jack shit about his political opinions, no matter what he says
Sometimes an asshole is just going to keep being an asshole
i mean i think nick spencer's Super Bad Politics from his political office run 12 years ago do have some tie-in to his Super Bad (It's Totally Not) Political Comic Story personally
You're free to make whatever kind of statement you want about religion. And there's plenty of ways to show sympathy towards Judas. But the idea that he was FATED to betray Jesus is one I don't buy, and yeah, I can say it's pretty dumb.
If this was a story about Islam or Hinduism that fuddled with random stuff people found eyeroll worthy, it doesn't mean it's not a valuable opinion or they're "trying" to miss the point.
Predestination is largely a concept from Abrahamic religions.
This isn't someone fiddling with the narrative. Predestination was already part of the narrative for a thousand or more years.
Isnt there a sect that theorizes that Judas didnt betray Jesus at all? That essentially he needed to die there for that reason and so asked one if his most trusted friends to turn him in?
Ive heard that before. At the very least Judas not being the bad guy isnt new idea and I think this take is completely valid.
If you were God, you would KNOW, each and every single one of those universes, every event, every choice. Nothing that occurred in any of those universes would be a surprise.
And yet, free will still exists because reality and people are still being altered by the choices they make. It only "seems" inevitable from the perspective of one within that pocket universe.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited September 2017
I believe the Book of Judas is one of the Apophryca
Posts
Or a Rorschach rant.
i have way more nuance than that
hrrm
I was going to make a "I said a better writer than Nick Spencer!" joke but
at this point it's a fuckin' dead heat
Art by Jakub Rebelka
Oh so it's the New 52 Phantom Stranger??
(that was so dumb)
Yeah, there's thing thing called free will.
It didn't have to have been Judas.
"I set before you life and death. Choose life dumbass."
I may have tweaked it a little.
There's something to be made of the idea that Judas isn't even all that heinous by the judgement of the Bible, depending on how you read things
So i'm at least intrigued on what someone might do with that
He is so reviled that his name, thousands of years later, is synonymous with betrayal and deceit. What would that do to a man? Knowing that your entire legacy fell down to one single decision you made and that it condemned you to being one of mankind's most hated villains?
Shit's interesting.
the genre of alternate history exists wholly because of that for example
a story can exist in a version of the world that operates under the "god has an absolute plan and ordained actions" theory
I'm sure Benedict Arnold felt a bit like this in the end.
You're free to make whatever kind of statement you want about religion. And there's plenty of ways to show sympathy towards Judas. But the idea that he was FATED to betray Jesus is one I don't buy, and yeah, I can say it's pretty dumb.
If this was a story about Islam or Hinduism that fuddled with random stuff people found eyeroll worthy, it doesn't mean it's not a valuable opinion or they're "trying" to miss the point.
Like, take the religion angle out of it. Selling out one of your trusted friends for some cash to be tortuously killed is a dirtbag thing to do and the infamy is well earned.
It's a fictional story about Judas in Hell and in this story, Judas was fated to be Jesus' betrayed. He isn't re-writing the Bible or founding his own religious sect.
Also there are loads of stories that tweak stuff in Hinduism and Islam like this. As well as countless ones that tweak Christianity.
I mean, we are in the Marvel thread. Canonically, Ghost Rider is an agent of Heaven powered by an angel. Does that also upset you?
I mean he was in Doctor Strange so he doesn't have much room to complain
It isn't just infamy
It is infamy on an unprecedented scale. His name is literally a synonym for betrayal. And he was a pretty good dude outside of that one, terrible act, and it has doomed him to being shorthand for duplicitous monster for thousands of years.
That's compelling as fuck.
Predestination is largely a concept from Abrahamic religions.
This isn't someone fiddling with the narrative. Predestination was already part of the narrative for a thousand or more years.
Nah, just all the other Benedicts.
Upset? Well, only in that the movie could have been way better. Plus, John Ostrander was a former seminary student and did a fantastic run on Spectre which is the DC version of Ghost Rider.
That's from 2005.
I think you can be critical of the dude and lay down some sick-nasty burns on his writing without dredging up shit he said twelve years ago.
I think the dude got a little shaken up and is just talking about 'crime' and doing a shit poor job of it.
But again, twelve years ago.
You know the Spectre predates Ghost Rider by over 32 years, right?
Sometimes an asshole is just going to keep being an asshole
Isnt there a sect that theorizes that Judas didnt betray Jesus at all? That essentially he needed to die there for that reason and so asked one if his most trusted friends to turn him in?
Ive heard that before. At the very least Judas not being the bad guy isnt new idea and I think this take is completely valid.
You know in Star Trek all those infinite number of universes?
If you were God, you would KNOW, each and every single one of those universes, every event, every choice. Nothing that occurred in any of those universes would be a surprise.
And yet, free will still exists because reality and people are still being altered by the choices they make. It only "seems" inevitable from the perspective of one within that pocket universe.