For damage reduction the dragoon does have a couple points on Line Guard, and I guess if the small golems are going to completely ignore the bunkers anyway, might as well. My frontline is a pugilist and fencer, so my Aoe is basically down to the Warlock in the backline.
I guess when I get home I'll try again, but this time being willing to spend items (I only have two Somas though, so probably not those), and check the Union skills.
There we go. Boss down. It was just a matter of focusing the small guys. And once I found out they were weak to ice, I could easily focus down one small guy a turn. I didn't even need to spend items beyond one pancake before going in to top off my Rover.
So far all the bosses are pretty well designed, there seems to be multiple strategies to take them down. And post second stratum class balance is really good, as long as you synergise your party somewhat at least.
Dumb question: I hear you can unlock extra abilities for your dudes. How do you do this? I'm around floor 8, so maybe I haven't reached deep enough yet?
Dumb question: I hear you can unlock extra abilities for your dudes. How do you do this? I'm around floor 8, so maybe I haven't reached deep enough yet?
You are close to unlocking them.
Defeat the second stratum boss
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Well, I apparently reached the boss of stratum 2. I haven't even tried it, though, because I'm 100% sure I can't take it.
Instead I've doubled back to try and beat the stratum's FOEs. I can deal with the scorpions handily, but I simply can't deal with the giraffes, They spend 100% of the time doing the exact same thing: Charge->double damage partywide sweep. The only moment they stop doing that is if I manage to hit a head bind, which lasts like two rounds. Otherwise, every other turn it's defend or partywipe, and my lack of healing simply can't really keep up.
So yeah, if I can't take the FOEs, I have severe doubts I can so much as look at the boss.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
A good measure bar in EO5 is that if you can take on the FOEs of the stratum you're on (not handily mind you, I mean just as far as fighting them as though they were a boss fight) you can take on the stratum boss.
Basically my problem is that since I depend on a Rover for healing and sustain, I simply can't deal with "partywide wipe-level attack every two turns", and I have no idea how I could deal with it.
Doesn't help I have no idea how to build my guys. I've been using my Fencer for small-scale chaining, but leveling up Chaining further seems a bit of a waste when I simply can't trigger more chains a turn, for example. In general I think my party does not have a lot of synergy, but I've kept running with it out of a mixture of having grown attached to them and not wanting to farm another character to the party's level.
If you don't have a source of elemental damage and/or a second source of piercing damage, yeah your party composition is kinda stuffed in terms of damage output. You can't effectively deal damage and recover in the same round if the only one who can proc the chains is the rover, and you're using the rover for healing/recovery.
Chaining is IMHO, the hardest way to do damage early in the game (until you try your hand at the multi-sword Masurao). Everyone else is capable of doing their own thing without party support for the most part, and support will help enhance their damage.
What is your party at the moment anyhow? And how are they 'built' in terms of skills?
Not a lot of other options for a Fencer, it felt. The whole "increase evasion but drop all defenses" thing sounds like absolute suicide, in addition to hugely TP-intensive.
A good way to deal with early challenges in EO games is picking one skill and focusing on that. Taking your primary damage skills to 9 or 10 helps immensely to kill stuff fast enough. Hurts on the tp front, but you can use other skills for less dangerous enemies.
But links are iffy in that you really need a party built around them.
It's looking like dropping the Fencer is going to be necessary in the end. Dangit. I wish she could chase the pugilist's bash attacks, then the entire problem would be solved.
How many levels do you lose to reclassing? Or is it just restart at level 1?
It's looking like dropping the Fencer is going to be necessary in the end. Dangit. I wish she could chase the pugilist's bash attacks, then the entire problem would be solved.
How many levels do you lose to reclassing? Or is it just restart at level 1?
Does it work to use an oil on the pugilist to give their attacks the element?
It's looking like dropping the Fencer is going to be necessary in the end. Dangit. I wish she could chase the pugilist's bash attacks, then the entire problem would be solved.
How many levels do you lose to reclassing? Or is it just restart at level 1?
Does it work to use an oil on the pugilist to give their attacks the element?
...I have to try that when I get back home. And if it does, it's going to be all in to spending skill points. Also find out how to farm oils.
It's looking like dropping the Fencer is going to be necessary in the end. Dangit. I wish she could chase the pugilist's bash attacks, then the entire problem would be solved.
How many levels do you lose to reclassing? Or is it just restart at level 1?
Does it work to use an oil on the pugilist to give their attacks the element?
It works, but only on their basic attacks. Even with an oil their skills will still be pure bash damage.
I find that you have to really weigh up the pros and cons before you take a skill past the level 4 and 9 barriers. I don't think it's a good idea to immediately jump a skill up to level 5/10 before you have the ability to support it; or even determined if it's necessary
As an example, Warlock Fireball at level 1 is 105%. Level 4 is 120% for 7TP. Level 5 is 140% so an increase of 16.7% damage, but the TP cost increases to 12 or a 71% increase in TP. Level 9 is 169% or a 41% increase in damage for again, 71% more TP. Level 10 is 210% for 18TP, or a 30% increase over level 9 for 50% more TP and 75% more damage for 157% more TP compared to the level 4 version.
Side point: Warlocks can kind of bypass this by picking up level 5/6 Focus Chant, which is a 1.98/2x damage multiplier for 10TP. Basically in exchange for dealing damage only every odd turn, you reduce your TP cost by 1 or 4TP per turn assuming you'd otherwise be casting every turn in a single target situation.
Another point of view: You can, however, view skills as being an action replacement. For physical attackers, you'd otherwise be using a 100% power basic attack so you can view using a skill that deals 140% damage as being merely a boost of 40% damage for that turn that you'd otherwise just attack. In that manner, if you were to increase the damage to 210% that's a gain of 110% which the TP numbers may look more favourably for that point of view. Casters though? Yeah, they'll deal near insignificant damage past a point if they're not casting even with a bow/gun.
For a lot of damage skills, you trade higher burst damage for less uses so it's a bit of a balancing act where you have to judge if you need more instant damage and if you have enough TP to support it. I personally use the metric of if I'm heading back to town because my bags are full and I still have 50% TP, I can probably rank up the skills past the 4/9 barrier because I'm likely to afford it.
There are only few skills I rush to 9 or 10. It can often cripple a lowlevel character's ability to actually use them more than twice, in addition to the lost opportunities for say building up your shop's early selection with conditional drops.
Yeah, I have raised few active skills above 4 for now, exactly due to that. My TP management is more than a little sparse at the moment, and I like exploring the labyrinth with a bit of leeway, so I've been keeping things manageable. Also why I haven't picked up Quick Chant for Marcille yet - unavoidable TP cost increases need to be looked at very carefully!
I did level up the Rover's dog, though. That seemed like a reasonable investment. Even though I have legit no idea how leveling affects its stats.
Dog has its own stats that go up with the character who uses the summon-skill (Rovers can use pets they didn't personally summon, if for some reason there is one), and the summon-skill multiplies those stats by 1.0 to 1.5.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I'm considering trying out the following party:
Pugilist, Fencer
Rover, Warlock, Botanist
The idea being that the Warlock and Rover will enable my Fencer to actually use the chase skills. I won't have any slashing damage though which worries me a bit.
It's looking like dropping the Fencer is going to be necessary in the end. Dangit. I wish she could chase the pugilist's bash attacks, then the entire problem would be solved.
How many levels do you lose to reclassing? Or is it just restart at level 1?
Does it work to use an oil on the pugilist to give their attacks the element?
It works, but only on their basic attacks. Even with an oil their skills will still be pure bash damage.
Ah. Yeah, looking through skills, it's mostly counter skills that take oil effects (a few active attacks will as well, but...).
Bird can slash a little in a pinch. Looks like there's enough room for two pets.
How would I have two pets in that lineup? Also I was actually thinking of going the doggo route, for the status ailments later on.
You can summon both. I would highly advise getting both pets, though you may want to only get the Dog's skills, the bird can A) slash adn head bind with its normal moves. I'm at stratum 5, and my rover is a dog rover, but I have hawk at level 5, and he's a nice 60-100 dmg per turn with the occasional head bind.
Also, give your botanist a bow so they can proc the chain skills too.
League of Legends: Sorakanmyworld
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
The idea being that the Warlock and Rover will enable my Fencer to actually use the chase skills. I won't have any slashing damage though which worries me a bit.
That is almost my party, except I have a Dragoon where you have a Botanist. It runs into the problem I mentioned, that you can only really trigger two chases a turn so it feels like kind of a waste to keep leveling the chains into 3 and 4 proc chances.
No, you can have up to three pets. They get a row of their own in the front. Me, I fill it with Bunkers.
Huh, does the passive heal double up in that case?
I'm currently torn as hell on what to do with my Fencer, which is essentially the whole backbone of how I want to structure my team. I really like the dodge based tanking they can provide, but the chase damage looks amazing as well. If I go tank route, I'll not have a Rover and instead use a Masu (and my Warlock will go the route with the physical damage spells). If I go for the chaining, I'll have a Rover with a dog focus, which means my Botanist can go the affliction route and not have to specialize in healing.
No, you can have up to three pets. They get a row of their own in the front. Me, I fill it with Bunkers.
Huh, does the passive heal double up in that case?
I'm currently torn as hell on what to do with my Fencer, which is essentially the whole backbone of how I want to structure my team. I really like the dodge based tanking they can provide, but the chase damage looks amazing as well. If I go tank route, I'll not have a Rover and instead use a Masu (and my Warlock will go the route with the physical damage spells). If I go for the chaining, I'll have a Rover with a dog focus, which means my Botanist can go the affliction route and not have to specialize in healing.
The fencers can't go both chain dmg and tanking, so you'll need to choose. Honestly you don't need a tank (at least in the main game, can't speak for post game), if you bring enough def+ or atk- skills from other sources. I'm currently running a Fencer who chains, Harbinger with debuffs, warlock with elemental spells, botanist with affliction, and dog rover. The dmg is mostly warlock and fencer chains, while the rest debuff or support them. I can proc chains with warlock/botanist/rover.
League of Legends: Sorakanmyworld
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Yeah I beat EO4 without a traditional tanking class which opened me up to trying that method of play on the other games. I've already tried some of EO5 with another party that has no tank and I was just as, if not moreso, successful. Though it had a Harbinger and that class honestly doesn't really do it for me.
I find that you have to really weigh up the pros and cons before you take a skill past the level 4 and 9 barriers. I don't think it's a good idea to immediately jump a skill up to level 5/10 before you have the ability to support it; or even determined if it's necessary
As an example, Warlock Fireball at level 1 is 105%. Level 4 is 120% for 7TP. Level 5 is 140% so an increase of 16.7% damage, but the TP cost increases to 12 or a 71% increase in TP. Level 9 is 169% or a 41% increase in damage for again, 71% more TP. Level 10 is 210% for 18TP, or a 30% increase over level 9 for 50% more TP and 75% more damage for 157% more TP compared to the level 4 version.
Side point: Warlocks can kind of bypass this by picking up level 5/6 Focus Chant, which is a 1.98/2x damage multiplier for 10TP. Basically in exchange for dealing damage only every odd turn, you reduce your TP cost by 1 or 4TP per turn assuming you'd otherwise be casting every turn in a single target situation.
Another point of view: You can, however, view skills as being an action replacement. For physical attackers, you'd otherwise be using a 100% power basic attack so you can view using a skill that deals 140% damage as being merely a boost of 40% damage for that turn that you'd otherwise just attack. In that manner, if you were to increase the damage to 210% that's a gain of 110% which the TP numbers may look more favourably for that point of view. Casters though? Yeah, they'll deal near insignificant damage past a point if they're not casting even with a bow/gun.
For a lot of damage skills, you trade higher burst damage for less uses so it's a bit of a balancing act where you have to judge if you need more instant damage and if you have enough TP to support it. I personally use the metric of if I'm heading back to town because my bags are full and I still have 50% TP, I can probably rank up the skills past the 4/9 barrier because I'm likely to afford it.
Not getting at least one damage skill per damage dealer to 9 before the end of the second stratum is crippling though. Keeping it at 9 is probably a good idea, but having the damage more than makes up for the higher TP cost when fighting FOEs and bosses. It's not clear cut, but generally focusing on one skill will be more efficient than splashing early on. Passives are generally not great, and in EO5 they are overall pretty bad. And from the late third stratum onwards the health of stuff feels balanced around maxed out skills to me.
I almost never go until my bags are full in the fifth stratum since my tank/healer run out of mana. My damagedealers can go on for longer unless they really spam their most expensive skills. The exception is my warlock, who can empty their mana in 10 or so turns if they really want to. But I save that for bosses.
I am not a fan at all of double pet rover, at least hawk rovers need all the points they can get. I reckon a hawk rover is complete around lvl 70 or so, and can still put some more points in more damage after that. The animals are pretty useless unless maxed out in the fifth stratum in my experience. There are plenty of multihit or all attacks that have a decent chance of killing my lvl 10 hawk that regens 50% of hp each round. And having dog at 10 to let it survive would mean my damage would be lower, and I wouldn't be able to million shot+hawk dive until 10 levels later. But if it works for you, go for it. You trade less damage for slight healing output I suppose.
Yeah, trying to know what to do with my Fencer is where I'm at as well.
You know, I'm kind of wondering how reasonable would it be to go evasion tank on my fencer and then cast Dragon's Roar on her to reduce a bit the suicide quotient and augment aggro draw.
Mostly I just wish guns weren't bash damage. That way the Dragoon could contibute to the chaining.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I just bought all the DLC, I can't believe I'd forgotten to do that. I like that the portraits are usable regardless of race / class. I thought about having the Gunner for my Pugilist portrait just for fun.
Posts
For damage reduction the dragoon does have a couple points on Line Guard, and I guess if the small golems are going to completely ignore the bunkers anyway, might as well. My frontline is a pugilist and fencer, so my Aoe is basically down to the Warlock in the backline.
I guess when I get home I'll try again, but this time being willing to spend items (I only have two Somas though, so probably not those), and check the Union skills.
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
...but I might really need that item later!
Seriously, I am glad that food items have zero monetary value or I would never have used them.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Hi, my name is Drascin and I am terrible at spending ANYTHING. It's a problem.
You are close to unlocking them.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Instead I've doubled back to try and beat the stratum's FOEs. I can deal with the scorpions handily, but I simply can't deal with the giraffes, They spend 100% of the time doing the exact same thing: Charge->double damage partywide sweep. The only moment they stop doing that is if I manage to hit a head bind, which lasts like two rounds. Otherwise, every other turn it's defend or partywipe, and my lack of healing simply can't really keep up.
So yeah, if I can't take the FOEs, I have severe doubts I can so much as look at the boss.
Doesn't help I have no idea how to build my guys. I've been using my Fencer for small-scale chaining, but leveling up Chaining further seems a bit of a waste when I simply can't trigger more chains a turn, for example. In general I think my party does not have a lot of synergy, but I've kept running with it out of a mixture of having grown attached to them and not wanting to farm another character to the party's level.
Chaining is IMHO, the hardest way to do damage early in the game (until you try your hand at the multi-sword Masurao). Everyone else is capable of doing their own thing without party support for the most part, and support will help enhance their damage.
What is your party at the moment anyhow? And how are they 'built' in terms of skills?
But links are iffy in that you really need a party built around them.
How many levels do you lose to reclassing? Or is it just restart at level 1?
Does it work to use an oil on the pugilist to give their attacks the element?
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
...I have to try that when I get back home. And if it does, it's going to be all in to spending skill points. Also find out how to farm oils.
It works, but only on their basic attacks. Even with an oil their skills will still be pure bash damage.
As an example, Warlock Fireball at level 1 is 105%. Level 4 is 120% for 7TP. Level 5 is 140% so an increase of 16.7% damage, but the TP cost increases to 12 or a 71% increase in TP. Level 9 is 169% or a 41% increase in damage for again, 71% more TP. Level 10 is 210% for 18TP, or a 30% increase over level 9 for 50% more TP and 75% more damage for 157% more TP compared to the level 4 version.
Side point: Warlocks can kind of bypass this by picking up level 5/6 Focus Chant, which is a 1.98/2x damage multiplier for 10TP. Basically in exchange for dealing damage only every odd turn, you reduce your TP cost by 1 or 4TP per turn assuming you'd otherwise be casting every turn in a single target situation.
Another point of view: You can, however, view skills as being an action replacement. For physical attackers, you'd otherwise be using a 100% power basic attack so you can view using a skill that deals 140% damage as being merely a boost of 40% damage for that turn that you'd otherwise just attack. In that manner, if you were to increase the damage to 210% that's a gain of 110% which the TP numbers may look more favourably for that point of view. Casters though? Yeah, they'll deal near insignificant damage past a point if they're not casting even with a bow/gun.
For a lot of damage skills, you trade higher burst damage for less uses so it's a bit of a balancing act where you have to judge if you need more instant damage and if you have enough TP to support it. I personally use the metric of if I'm heading back to town because my bags are full and I still have 50% TP, I can probably rank up the skills past the 4/9 barrier because I'm likely to afford it.
There are only few skills I rush to 9 or 10. It can often cripple a lowlevel character's ability to actually use them more than twice, in addition to the lost opportunities for say building up your shop's early selection with conditional drops.
I did level up the Rover's dog, though. That seemed like a reasonable investment. Even though I have legit no idea how leveling affects its stats.
Pugilist, Fencer
Rover, Warlock, Botanist
The idea being that the Warlock and Rover will enable my Fencer to actually use the chase skills. I won't have any slashing damage though which worries me a bit.
Ah. Yeah, looking through skills, it's mostly counter skills that take oil effects (a few active attacks will as well, but...).
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Yeah, Rover wants 1-2 slots, Dragoon is 1-3 depending (I can see a case for triple counter bunkers), and Necro wants all of em.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
You can summon both. I would highly advise getting both pets, though you may want to only get the Dog's skills, the bird can A) slash adn
Also, give your botanist a bow so they can proc the chain skills too.
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
That is almost my party, except I have a Dragoon where you have a Botanist. It runs into the problem I mentioned, that you can only really trigger two chases a turn so it feels like kind of a waste to keep leveling the chains into 3 and 4 proc chances.
I'm currently torn as hell on what to do with my Fencer, which is essentially the whole backbone of how I want to structure my team. I really like the dodge based tanking they can provide, but the chase damage looks amazing as well. If I go tank route, I'll not have a Rover and instead use a Masu (and my Warlock will go the route with the physical damage spells). If I go for the chaining, I'll have a Rover with a dog focus, which means my Botanist can go the affliction route and not have to specialize in healing.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
The fencers can't go both chain dmg and tanking, so you'll need to choose. Honestly you don't need a tank (at least in the main game, can't speak for post game), if you bring enough def+ or atk- skills from other sources. I'm currently running a Fencer who chains, Harbinger with debuffs, warlock with elemental spells, botanist with affliction, and dog rover. The dmg is mostly warlock and fencer chains, while the rest debuff or support them. I can proc chains with warlock/botanist/rover.
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
Not getting at least one damage skill per damage dealer to 9 before the end of the second stratum is crippling though. Keeping it at 9 is probably a good idea, but having the damage more than makes up for the higher TP cost when fighting FOEs and bosses. It's not clear cut, but generally focusing on one skill will be more efficient than splashing early on. Passives are generally not great, and in EO5 they are overall pretty bad. And from the late third stratum onwards the health of stuff feels balanced around maxed out skills to me.
I almost never go until my bags are full in the fifth stratum since my tank/healer run out of mana. My damagedealers can go on for longer unless they really spam their most expensive skills. The exception is my warlock, who can empty their mana in 10 or so turns if they really want to. But I save that for bosses.
I am not a fan at all of double pet rover, at least hawk rovers need all the points they can get. I reckon a hawk rover is complete around lvl 70 or so, and can still put some more points in more damage after that. The animals are pretty useless unless maxed out in the fifth stratum in my experience. There are plenty of multihit or all attacks that have a decent chance of killing my lvl 10 hawk that regens 50% of hp each round. And having dog at 10 to let it survive would mean my damage would be lower, and I wouldn't be able to million shot+hawk dive until 10 levels later. But if it works for you, go for it. You trade less damage for slight healing output I suppose.
You know, I'm kind of wondering how reasonable would it be to go evasion tank on my fencer and then cast Dragon's Roar on her to reduce a bit the suicide quotient and augment aggro draw.
Mostly I just wish guns weren't bash damage. That way the Dragoon could contibute to the chaining.
I do rush poison-skills as much as convenient in every game, because early strata are where poison shines the most.