I like the idea that hey- this guy has a cool weapon or armor, and I beat him and I can take it now!
None of this, like, oh he died but we left his ancient relic blade of great power and skill just like...lying there
On the floor
It isn't even cursed!
And we left lol
But also video game loot systems are weird
But also mercilessly slaughtering your way across a digital narrative is also weird
tbh I am pretty much done with murder hobo open world RPGs
The last one I played was Mass Effect Andromeda and I was like "this game is fucking dumb. I feel dumb for doing this shit. The well-crafted narrative BioWare is trying here is ramming so fucking hard against their murder heavy open world gameplay, this isn't fun"
An actually realistic non-bandits to bandits ratio would be a great creative restriction on all RPG makers. It would cut down on just throwing tons and tons of poorly justified intelligent enemies at you.
And, you know, design challenge: shuck 30 years of toxic masculinity in game design that tells us the only way to deal with our enemies is murder them
There is a paucity of games where you play a dude who negotiates, engages in actual espionage, double-deals, fast-talks, or otherwise finds non-murder solutions to problems.
Usually games where that sort of thing is an element, it's like a strategy game where it's the primary element.
There's all kinds of interesting game mechanic places to explore there!
Or hell just games where I'm fighting people off or only using as much force as necessary to end a problem, that'd be fucking nice.
Instead, the overwhelming majority of games treat violence as a binary. You're either non-violent hugboxes and lesbian walking simulators, or you kill people.
TBF all games should be non-violent hugboxes or lesbian walking simulators tho
Like I am trying to think of games where you can use
1. Non-murderous levels of violence and/or
2. Talk to your enemies to negotiate, interrogate, threaten, flee, use stealth, or otherwise avoid a conflict non-violently without it being viewed as a fail state
And I am coming up with... Batman games..?
Batman games.
That's it, that's all I got. And I feel like that is only the case because Batman has a canon-enforced proscription against killing, otherwise he'd just murder people.
Deus Ex games.
+1
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
In the game of life it was you who were the looted NPC
+4
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GonmunHe keeps kickin' me inthe dickRegistered Userregular
Jesus fuck I do not like where they moved my office to.
Sitting next to a sleazy logistics guy who uses tactics like "I'm gonna get fired if you don't take this load for $1675" then once he's off the call giggles with glee and gloats about how he's getting $2200 from the customer.
I’m gonna be sad if new Destiny players never get something like the Taken King.
I like the shooting enough that I have floated the idea of going back and doing the old Destiny strikes and raids. My group is not terribly interested, especially considering the grind in D1 and the fact that we still haven't managed to get people together for a raid in D2.
Can we not even get heroic strikes with modifiers, though? Or more than three nightfalls? I have zero reason to play the game right now.
You might want to confirm this, but I’m fairly certain new Destiny 1 players get an item that instantly gives them max level. I know I got one in my postmaster, but I just never had a need to use it.
Like I am trying to think of games where you can use
1. Non-murderous levels of violence and/or
2. Talk to your enemies to negotiate, interrogate, threaten, flee, use stealth, or otherwise avoid a conflict non-violently without it being viewed as a fail state
And I am coming up with... Batman games..?
Batman games.
That's it, that's all I got. And I feel like that is only the case because Batman has a canon-enforced proscription against killing, otherwise he'd just murder people.
A simple mechanic that is in like, D&D, where you can specify your damage is not intended to kill, is missing from almost all video game RPGs for some reason. The ability to yell at them to surrender is also typically nonexistent
Deus Ex is actually interesting, because a lot of the violent resolutions aren't signposted very well. A lot of players don't realise that in the first game you can
save Paul or kill Anna early with a cutscene mine,
or that in HR you can
save Malik.
+1
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Knocking people out is hard and dangerous as shit. If you hit someone on the head hard enough to knock them out they’d probably die from an untreated concussion unless you took them to a hospital
I agree to the first part but not the "probably die"
That would be saying they are more likely to die then not but ehh... people get knocked out all the time and don't die. Can die, most certainly. But not probably die. People get knocked out in dumb fist fights, doing random dumb shit and even plenty in combat sports. Even in that professional setting of combat sports they just stand-up afterwards, to varying degrees of wobbliness, and shake hands with the other dude. Especially since the treatment for a concussion is just rest and being careful isn't it?
It is amazing how blows to the head are so non-consequential in fiction.
in one of the adult swim cartoons they knocked a guy out and went to knock the other guy out but he saw them and he's like "holy shit you killed ted", and they said "nah we just knocked him out, we always knock people out we're not murderers" and the guy replied "do you check? have you ever actually checked to make sure the people you knocked out are okay? Oh god I don't think ted is breathing"
that was the first time I considered how many knocked out mooks are actually murder victims
A simple mechanic that is in like, D&D, where you can specify your damage is not intended to kill, is missing from almost all video game RPGs for some reason. The ability to yell at them to surrender is also typically nonexistent
shrug
What really grinds my gears is that some games sometimes have enemies flee if you hurt them enough. Sometimes they even say they give up. They will almost always start attacking you agains after a few seconds like nothing happened.
Y'know how something in fiction bugs you that might not bother other people if they don't know as much about that thing as you?
Like you watch a medical show with your friend who is a nurse and she's like "uuuugh" because that isn't how fucking anything works
The use of force and non-violent de-escalation stuff in video games bugs me because like... in reality that's how you resolve most scenarios when someone means you harm? You don't fucking murder them.
And not just because, y'know, society and law say no. But because going there is often more dangerous to you than just not.
Obviously, this doesn't suit all games. Games where you are explicitly a soldier in a war, or you are BJ in Wolfenstein carving your way through Nazi scum, sure whatever.
But when I am playing Mass Effect Andromeda, a game that explicitly says there's a very small number of Milky Way people left in the galaxy, when we get jumped by bandits do I not have any other options than "bullet them to death"?
Seriously?
Shit's fucked up yo.
+1
Options
KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
I don’t think wounding a Reaper Husk would quite work out something tells me they’d just go on killing.
Like I am trying to think of games where you can use
1. Non-murderous levels of violence and/or
2. Talk to your enemies to negotiate, interrogate, threaten, flee, use stealth, or otherwise avoid a conflict non-violently without it being viewed as a fail state
And I am coming up with... Batman games..?
Batman games.
That's it, that's all I got. And I feel like that is only the case because Batman has a canon-enforced proscription against killing, otherwise he'd just murder people.
There was Torment: Tides of Numenera, where I *think* almost all combat was avoidable (and combat sucked anyway).
Also I guess most stealth action games allow nonlethal and sneaking. Deus Ex even includes conversations with important peeps.
A simple mechanic that is in like, D&D, where you can specify your damage is not intended to kill, is missing from almost all video game RPGs for some reason. The ability to yell at them to surrender is also typically nonexistent
shrug
What really grinds my gears is that some games sometimes have enemies flee if you hurt them enough. Sometimes they even say they give up. They will almost always start attacking you against after a few seconds like nothing happened.
I'd love to see in a Skyrim game where you shoot a bandit, get a critical hit and just decimate the person, all the other bandits just drop their weapons and take off never to be seen by you again
or in a game like GTA 5, where civilians react appropriately to gunfire, but bad guys NEVER give up or surrender. Pro tip game developers and movie creators: in most circumstances, especially if the people in question are the aggressors, people typically don't fight to the last man
+2
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21stCenturyCall me Pixel, or Pix for short![They/Them]Registered Userregular
How about all those HOPAs (Hidden Object Puzzle Adventures), 1st Person Adventure games (Myst, The Witness, etc.) and point n click adventure games? Most of those are nonviolent (Unless you meant, like, RPGs? Action games?
i would like a game where you are a space sheriff non-lethally apprehending space bandits with a very effective stun ray, and the real challenge is logistical decisions about how to store, feed, and manage your rapidly growing prison population. the clumsy, restrictive UI for that management aspect will be a comment on dysfunctional prison systems and also on how hard it is to design a good UI
+5
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
Also bandits by their nature are not nice people. And while the correct punishment for their crimes is rarely execution the time and effort it would take to corral them all taken them to the nearest authorities might just be something players would find offputting.
Carrying 218 pounds, entirely swords with no clothes whatsoever: running full-sprint off a blizzardy mountain to deftly kill thirty dragons
Carrying 219 pounds: ded
I really wonder why more games don't have a direct carry weight/mobility scale
I wonder lots of things about games
I finished HZD last night, btw, tho not the DLC
I think most people are going to find that more infuriating because now every bit is slowing them down instead of just having to worry about threshold.
Well they're goofballs. Every little bit slowing you down (sometimes imperceptibly) is basically how it works in reality and it's a very intuitive system. Drop some of those swords, you greedy nerds!
This is how it works in Fallout and Skyrim. It isn't exactly an exotic mechanic.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
How about all those HOPAs (Hidden Object Puzzle Adventures), 1st Person Adventure games (Myst, The Witness, etc.) and point n click adventure games? Most of those are nonviolent (Unless you meant, like, RPGs? Action games?
Yeah no, games where violence doesn't exist don't count
Making violence a non-thing doesn't address the issue. Giving the players options to address the threat of violence with stealth, negotiation, non-lethal force, etc. are what I am talking about.
Deus Ex and Dishonored both count.
0
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Captain Ultralow resolution pictures of birdsRegistered Userregular
Madden road to glory has no murder.
0
Options
21stCenturyCall me Pixel, or Pix for short![They/Them]Registered Userregular
How about all those HOPAs (Hidden Object Puzzle Adventures), 1st Person Adventure games (Myst, The Witness, etc.) and point n click adventure games? Most of those are nonviolent (Unless you meant, like, RPGs? Action games?
Yeah no, games where violence doesn't exist don't count
Making violence a non-thing doesn't address the issue. Giving the players options to address the threat of violence with stealth, negotiation, non-lethal force, etc. are what I am talking about.
Deus Ex and Dishonored both count.
Okay, so games where you CAN be violent but can complete without being violent.
Right, so Undertale totally is a poster child for that.
Also bandits by their nature are not nice people. And while the correct punishment for their crimes is rarely execution the time and effort it would take to corral them all taken them to the nearest authorities might just be something players would find offputting.
Carrying 218 pounds, entirely swords with no clothes whatsoever: running full-sprint off a blizzardy mountain to deftly kill thirty dragons
Carrying 219 pounds: ded
I really wonder why more games don't have a direct carry weight/mobility scale
I wonder lots of things about games
I finished HZD last night, btw, tho not the DLC
I think most people are going to find that more infuriating because now every bit is slowing them down instead of just having to worry about threshold.
Well they're goofballs. Every little bit slowing you down (sometimes imperceptibly) is basically how it works in reality and it's a very intuitive system. Drop some of those swords, you greedy nerds!
This is how it works in Fallout and Skyrim. It isn't exactly an exotic mechanic.
I thought those games had a weight limit.
0
Options
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
How about all those HOPAs (Hidden Object Puzzle Adventures), 1st Person Adventure games (Myst, The Witness, etc.) and point n click adventure games? Most of those are nonviolent (Unless you meant, like, RPGs? Action games?
Yeah no, games where violence doesn't exist don't count
Making violence a non-thing doesn't address the issue. Giving the players options to address the threat of violence with stealth, negotiation, non-lethal force, etc. are what I am talking about.
Deus Ex and Dishonored both count.
Metal Gear games allow fully non-lethal runs.
+2
Options
TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
would anyone like to come by and help me make some finger sandwiches?
Carrying 218 pounds, entirely swords with no clothes whatsoever: running full-sprint off a blizzardy mountain to deftly kill thirty dragons
Carrying 219 pounds: ded
I really wonder why more games don't have a direct carry weight/mobility scale
I wonder lots of things about games
I finished HZD last night, btw, tho not the DLC
I think most people are going to find that more infuriating because now every bit is slowing them down instead of just having to worry about threshold.
Well they're goofballs. Every little bit slowing you down (sometimes imperceptibly) is basically how it works in reality and it's a very intuitive system. Drop some of those swords, you greedy nerds!
This is how it works in Fallout and Skyrim. It isn't exactly an exotic mechanic.
The UESP makes movement speed sound like a binary between unencombered and overencumbered.
When overencumbered and slowed, your speed moving with a drawn arrow is unaffected and significantly faster.
Posts
TBF all games should be non-violent hugboxes or lesbian walking simulators tho
do
work???
In the game of life it was you who were the looted NPC
Sitting next to a sleazy logistics guy who uses tactics like "I'm gonna get fired if you don't take this load for $1675" then once he's off the call giggles with glee and gloats about how he's getting $2200 from the customer.
I see you've only played casual poker.
You might want to confirm this, but I’m fairly certain new Destiny 1 players get an item that instantly gives them max level. I know I got one in my postmaster, but I just never had a need to use it.
EDIT: Yeah, that sounded reall a lot shtitier than i thought, sorry.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
*Looks at sales of Dishonored 2*
*Cries*
shrug
Deus Ex is actually interesting, because a lot of the violent resolutions aren't signposted very well. A lot of players don't realise that in the first game you can
or that in HR you can
I agree to the first part but not the "probably die"
That would be saying they are more likely to die then not but ehh... people get knocked out all the time and don't die. Can die, most certainly. But not probably die. People get knocked out in dumb fist fights, doing random dumb shit and even plenty in combat sports. Even in that professional setting of combat sports they just stand-up afterwards, to varying degrees of wobbliness, and shake hands with the other dude. Especially since the treatment for a concussion is just rest and being careful isn't it?
in one of the adult swim cartoons they knocked a guy out and went to knock the other guy out but he saw them and he's like "holy shit you killed ted", and they said "nah we just knocked him out, we always knock people out we're not murderers" and the guy replied "do you check? have you ever actually checked to make sure the people you knocked out are okay? Oh god I don't think ted is breathing"
that was the first time I considered how many knocked out mooks are actually murder victims
What really grinds my gears is that some games sometimes have enemies flee if you hurt them enough. Sometimes they even say they give up. They will almost always start attacking you agains after a few seconds like nothing happened.
Like you watch a medical show with your friend who is a nurse and she's like "uuuugh" because that isn't how fucking anything works
The use of force and non-violent de-escalation stuff in video games bugs me because like... in reality that's how you resolve most scenarios when someone means you harm? You don't fucking murder them.
And not just because, y'know, society and law say no. But because going there is often more dangerous to you than just not.
Obviously, this doesn't suit all games. Games where you are explicitly a soldier in a war, or you are BJ in Wolfenstein carving your way through Nazi scum, sure whatever.
But when I am playing Mass Effect Andromeda, a game that explicitly says there's a very small number of Milky Way people left in the galaxy, when we get jumped by bandits do I not have any other options than "bullet them to death"?
Seriously?
Shit's fucked up yo.
There was Torment: Tides of Numenera, where I *think* almost all combat was avoidable (and combat sucked anyway).
Also I guess most stealth action games allow nonlethal and sneaking. Deus Ex even includes conversations with important peeps.
Wrong, pardner
*twirls six shooter on finger*
I'd love to see in a Skyrim game where you shoot a bandit, get a critical hit and just decimate the person, all the other bandits just drop their weapons and take off never to be seen by you again
or in a game like GTA 5, where civilians react appropriately to gunfire, but bad guys NEVER give up or surrender. Pro tip game developers and movie creators: in most circumstances, especially if the people in question are the aggressors, people typically don't fight to the last man
How about all those HOPAs (Hidden Object Puzzle Adventures), 1st Person Adventure games (Myst, The Witness, etc.) and point n click adventure games? Most of those are nonviolent (Unless you meant, like, RPGs? Action games?
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
This is how it works in Fallout and Skyrim. It isn't exactly an exotic mechanic.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Yeah no, games where violence doesn't exist don't count
Making violence a non-thing doesn't address the issue. Giving the players options to address the threat of violence with stealth, negotiation, non-lethal force, etc. are what I am talking about.
Deus Ex and Dishonored both count.
Okay, so games where you CAN be violent but can complete without being violent.
Right, so Undertale totally is a poster child for that.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
(Maybe they should)
I thought those games had a weight limit.
Metal Gear games allow fully non-lethal runs.
path of exile turned out to make much of its profit from storage space rather than from whales buying cosmetics
i wonder whether it's skewed the game toward introducing more mechanics for yet more items that take up loot space
The UESP makes movement speed sound like a binary between unencombered and overencumbered.
God bless Skyrim.