well, got my 2nd base to a point where i'm pretty much set forever. i have a gigantic pool of clean water, a tapped steam geyser that supplies all my elecrolyzers, 2 natural gas geysers tapped to power my base, and a weezewort powered hydrogen cooling loop to cool down my farm and industrial area.
trying to keep a polymer press below 100c is still a challenge though. those suckers get hot af.
there is a building that refines metal, i forget the name but you just give it ore and a buttload of water and refined metal and a hot buttload of water comes out.
Ugh, I just don't think I understand how cooling works. I tried to setup a basin in an ice biome, pump my polluted water into the basin, then using thermally reactive pipe zig zag through the biome, before filtering it and sending it back through insulated pipe to the initial biome. And it's still warming up.
There's two ways I know of to refine metal. There's an ore crusher (second or third research level) and a smelter, higher in the research tree. The crusher is less efficient but just requires power. The smelter, as Knight_ mentioned takes in water and emits heated water.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
instead of pumping it through a pipe lattice like actual physics works, dump the polluted water into a basin, or series of basins, keep them small like 7x7 square basins.
Then harvest wheezeworts and put the seeds on a thermally conductive gas/liquid permeable tile above the basin.
then get switches to turn on and turn off collecting the water when its cooled off enough.
with automation in now, you can set up circuits to trip on when the water hits a certain temp on a temperature gauge and flip off if it's not.
of all the cooling things, I still find wheezewort to be the best coolant.
Another question related to cooling. I don't really grok how the tempshift plates are supposed to work. Would they be something to use in my cooling system?
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
Another question related to cooling. I don't really grok how the tempshift plates are supposed to work. Would they be something to use in my cooling system?
IIRC How tempshift plates work depends on what material you make them with (which is why they let you build it out of pretty much any solid you have on hand).
If it's a material with a low heat capacity and high thermal conductivity (like copper) it accelerates heat changes. Good for drawing heat out of something (like dumping the pipe of hot water from the smelter into a room full of whezzeworts.) Or making sure heat changes from one part of the area quickly propagates throughout the room. Note that because heat transfer is based on the object with the lowest conductivity, you'll have to build several touching plates to get a quick propagating effect.
If it's a material with a high capacity, low conductivity (like abyssite, which I believe has the highest capacity and lowest conductivity) it will act as a buffer. Good for keeping the heat from a geyser contained, or making sure heat from your base doesn't seep into the farm where you grow all your Sleet Wheat whenever your dupes go in there to harvest or fertilize.
Unfortunately, it doesn't show these things when you select the material you want to use; unless you already know what the material itself does, best way to figure it out is to pretend you are going to actually build then, then select the wireframe for the building and see what it's heat stats are from the Details page.
i think tempshift plates are mostly just for balancing heat between two areas.
they seem useful if you have a bunch of weezeworts in high pressure hydrogen, but i just used wolframite wire bridges because it let me get the cold out without opening the cold box.
Think of tempshift plates as being heat pipes/heat spreaders. I'm planning on using them along with a tank of water to act as a heat stabiliser for an area with the water providing the thermal bulk and a way to maintain a certain temperature
Oh thats interesting then. Do the temp plates actually leech decent amounts of heat?
I find it odd how water thermally resistant water is in this game. I mean, sure, water does have about 10times the thermal capacity as the same cubic volume of air, but ONI is ridiculous with it.
there just isn't a way for the game to properly model surface area and the general mass of a lot of things is disproportionate. Just a case of scale being tossed out of whack to compensate for simplicity
The temp plates can give you a very large thermally conductive area without taking up 'foreground' tile space. Kinda like having a metal tile as a background. I haven't done/seen testing to show exactly the extent of its effects but I've had a fair bit of success in using them to rapidly equalise the temperatures of two tanks of liquids and maintaining the temperature of a large volume of gas.
My next project idea is to combine the polluted water -> natural gas loop with a cooling system taking advantage that I'm going to be generating a fair amount of polluted water as a process of generating power.
Natural Gas generators set the temperature of their outputs based on the building's temperature, so if you're able to keep the machines cool and counteract their heat output, you can end up with a lot of low temperature polluted water and carbon dioxide. Then using the cool (say, 20C) polluted water, use that as a sacrificial medium to run water through an aquatuner to push the polluted water closer to 90C (4-5 rounds) before sending it off to be destroyed in the fertilizer synthesisers. That chilled water is then used to keep the machines cool and not overheating, as well as having excess capacity to act as a heat dump for additional aquatuners for the main base cooling. If I wanted to, I could push the temperature of the system towards 5C and gain an additional loop and ~64kW of cooling capacity from each litre of polluted water before it needs to be flushed.
Hence turning a polluted water/natural gas power loop into a cooling system as well.
edit: In reality though, I'm probably going to end up altering the layout so that the power system will cool a large reservoir with the power system's cooling being a sub-system to that drawing off thermal capacity from the larger tank. That way I won't have to worry about additional thermal load reducing the performance of the cooling system which can cause a negative feedback loop.
oh hey, so much the better then, using my cooling vat system with wheezeworts.
As it stands currently, the water gets colder near the surface since only that is interacting with the temperature foolery of the worts. Or by making an intricate gas permeable room and surround it with water.
With temp plates I should be able to grid out the entire backdrop of a holding tank and the wheezewort platform and actually be able to penetrate the entire area of the holding tank and thus cooling the water that much faster.
I'm ok with temp plates even giving wires and plumbing space issues because you never really use that much space for either of those, or just put the wiring/plumbing in the tank walls.
I don't think using tempshift plates will make your cooling solution any better for this reason:
It appears that between homogeneous bodies of liquids, heat transfer is being done on a per-tile basis and the mass of each tile isn't taken into account as much as it should. A thin layer of water on top of a large column will disproportionately affect the entire column, hence cooling the thin layer will magnify the cooling capabilities of whatever you're using given a large enough volume of water.
Using that bug, it's possible to cool down a STEAM GEYSER with a single aquatuner placing the aquatuner in the very same pool of water it's trying to cool down, thereby ruling without a shadow of doubt, that it's breaking the laws of physics.
There's also another bug where dripping a very small volume of water onto machines deletes heat off the machine
My early game cooling solution is to simply thermally isolate the heat generation points, delete excess using water sieves to prevent them overheating and use wheezeworts to counteract the heat as a result of dupes living as well as the minor amounts of life support systems. Only after I tech up, and find the resources to build out massive robust systems do I even consider going past 6 dupes.
I picked it up and am happily (?) doing a LOT of trial and error with all these systems.
Colony #1: Neglected food production for too long
Colony #2: Poorly set up/planned for gas/water flow. Not sinking CO2 low enough, oxy production on upper levels, etc
Colony #3: Two dups asphixiated just standing still on like day 3 because I didn't realize they were trapped.
Colony #4 (current): Just started, but off to a better start. I seem to be running low on oxygen much earlier than on attempts 1 and 2. Not sure why.
One tip I did not immediately think of, before watching a fair number of streams: But when you're doing excavation, do not dig out Oxalite. If you leave it there, it continues outputting o2 into the environment. If you dig it up, I don't believe it turns into anything more useful than it already was (maybe it becomes just plain dirt?).
Yeah, I figured that one out right away. What I'm struggling with now is oxygen production after there's no more oxylite and algae.
Three things you can do:
-Find more algae beyond the starting biome, there's usually a few pockets of it out there.
-turn slime into algae with the algae distiller. Slime is a bit tricky to deal with because it will always carry slimelung, but once you learn how to minimize the risk of exposure (ore scrubbers, deoderizers to get rid of the polluted Oxygen that can carry it, store slime in water where it can't evaporate) it's rather painless to deal with.
-Finally, Electrolyzers. These are your end-game goal, as algae is finite and slime eventually goes to a trickle with any puffs you can find and corral, while water spawns endlessly from the steam geysers. That being said, you can't just build one in the middle of your colony and call it a day; they also produce Hydrogen, which can build up at the top of your base, and is as equally unbreathable as CO2. You'll want to give it its own room with at least one air pump, that filters out the Hydrogen to go to a Hydrogen generator while distributing the rest across your base (but fairly far away from your farms until you get some tech to deal with heat, because the Oxegen that comes out is going to be warmer than what most of you mainline crops can handle.)
Welp, I've made it to Cycle 100. But things are falling apart fast. I have a close Natural Gas geyser, but the generator doesn't put out as much polluted water as I hoped. It's not enough (recycled through a thingie) to power the electrolyzers.
So I have NO clean water now, save for the trickle that comes in from the toilets/shower and the gas generator. Everyone has slime lung and the O2 is dropping rapidly.
So... I guess I needed to get on recycling polluted water much earlier? There are some more pockets of it nearby, but it's some digging and building away and everyone is dying.
Steam geyser. It's infinite water you just have to cool.
Yeah, I can't see one anywhere on my map. So if there is one, it's so far away I'll never reach and tap it in time.
I think at least one spawns every time. Typically 2.
I was watching my buddy play and he has a steam geyser and a natural gas geyser right below the start.
Edit: rancher update is today! Will definitely be restarting and trying it out.
Speaking of Rancher update and geysers, one of the biggest changes isn't the addition to ranching, but the changes to geysers. There are more of them now, including volcanoes that spew out (molten) refined metal. However, they now have a cycle between an active state where they regularly erupt, and dormant state when they don't, meaning that steam or natural gas geyser that you base depends on will eventually dry up for a "lot" of cycles (how long exactly seems random, but we're talking dozens to close to or even over a hundred cycles) and you'll have to make due without. Your Tenured Scientist can study the geyser to tell you exactly when that will happen and how long so that you can prepare, however.
Steam geyser. It's infinite water you just have to cool.
Yeah, I can't see one anywhere on my map. So if there is one, it's so far away I'll never reach and tap it in time.
I think at least one spawns every time. Typically 2.
I was watching my buddy play and he has a steam geyser and a natural gas geyser right below the start.
Edit: rancher update is today! Will definitely be restarting and trying it out.
Speaking of Rancher update and geysers, one of the biggest changes isn't the addition to ranching, but the changes to geysers. There are more of them now, including volcanoes that spew out (molten) refined metal. However, they now have a cycle between an active state where they regularly erupt, and dormant state when they don't, meaning that steam or natural gas geyser that you base depends on will eventually dry up for a "lot" of cycles (how long exactly seems random, but we're talking dozens to close to or even over a hundred cycles) and you'll have to make due without. Your Tenured Scientist can study the geyser to tell you exactly when that will happen and how long so that you can prepare, however.
Metal volcano sounds dope and or off the chain.
I can't wait for one to spawn between my base and an ice biomes and spew molten death down on my dupes.
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
You can convert slime to algae using a thing whose name I forgot.
Also always build a ladder if your dupes will be working over or near a pit. Its easier to set them up before one falls in than to scramble after.
this is less practical than it first appears as you would need a dozen or more distillers working flat out to produce enough algae to keep your oxygen stable even with a small population.
At least last time I looked into it. Pretty sure electrolysis is the only long term stable way to get oxygen (using water from a steam vent).
This looks dope and I want it in my switch now. Luckily, this will surely come in time, like all indie things.
The controls would be *really* awkward with controller, or even touchscreen. Also trying to see some of the menus on the smaller screen would be... difficult.
I found a volcano right by my base. They start buried.
Is that what those random chunks of neutronium are? I was wondering about that.
Yup. I think the "classic" geysers still start uncovered, but all the new ones are buried and you have to dig them out, though the classics now also have periods of activity and dormancy (and apparently amount they spew when they do errupt; seen one post about a natural gas geyser that couldn't maintain a single generator.)
Also, you won't find all of the new ones in every map like the old ones, but I want to say that you are guaranteed some variation of a few.
My nearby geyser spews polluted oxygen that's choked with Slimelung. Luckily relatively cool, so it won't F over my base temperature wise, but cleaning it so my whole based doesn't get sick (not to mention not killing off my scientist when they study it to tell me when the dormancy periods are) will take a little work.
My nearby geyser spews polluted oxygen that's choked with Slimelung. Luckily relatively cool, so it won't F over my base temperature wise, but cleaning it so my whole based doesn't get sick (not to mention not killing off my scientist when they study it to tell me when the dormancy periods are) will take a little work.
On the upside, you now know where to set up your Puft ranch.
Posts
Does anyone know how I get refined metal?
trying to keep a polymer press below 100c is still a challenge though. those suckers get hot af.
there is a building that refines metal, i forget the name but you just give it ore and a buttload of water and refined metal and a hot buttload of water comes out.
There's two ways I know of to refine metal. There's an ore crusher (second or third research level) and a smelter, higher in the research tree. The crusher is less efficient but just requires power. The smelter, as Knight_ mentioned takes in water and emits heated water.
Then harvest wheezeworts and put the seeds on a thermally conductive gas/liquid permeable tile above the basin.
then get switches to turn on and turn off collecting the water when its cooled off enough.
with automation in now, you can set up circuits to trip on when the water hits a certain temp on a temperature gauge and flip off if it's not.
of all the cooling things, I still find wheezewort to be the best coolant.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
IIRC How tempshift plates work depends on what material you make them with (which is why they let you build it out of pretty much any solid you have on hand).
If it's a material with a low heat capacity and high thermal conductivity (like copper) it accelerates heat changes. Good for drawing heat out of something (like dumping the pipe of hot water from the smelter into a room full of whezzeworts.) Or making sure heat changes from one part of the area quickly propagates throughout the room. Note that because heat transfer is based on the object with the lowest conductivity, you'll have to build several touching plates to get a quick propagating effect.
If it's a material with a high capacity, low conductivity (like abyssite, which I believe has the highest capacity and lowest conductivity) it will act as a buffer. Good for keeping the heat from a geyser contained, or making sure heat from your base doesn't seep into the farm where you grow all your Sleet Wheat whenever your dupes go in there to harvest or fertilize.
Unfortunately, it doesn't show these things when you select the material you want to use; unless you already know what the material itself does, best way to figure it out is to pretend you are going to actually build then, then select the wireframe for the building and see what it's heat stats are from the Details page.
they seem useful if you have a bunch of weezeworts in high pressure hydrogen, but i just used wolframite wire bridges because it let me get the cold out without opening the cold box.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
I find it odd how water thermally resistant water is in this game. I mean, sure, water does have about 10times the thermal capacity as the same cubic volume of air, but ONI is ridiculous with it.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
The temp plates can give you a very large thermally conductive area without taking up 'foreground' tile space. Kinda like having a metal tile as a background. I haven't done/seen testing to show exactly the extent of its effects but I've had a fair bit of success in using them to rapidly equalise the temperatures of two tanks of liquids and maintaining the temperature of a large volume of gas.
My next project idea is to combine the polluted water -> natural gas loop with a cooling system taking advantage that I'm going to be generating a fair amount of polluted water as a process of generating power.
Natural Gas generators set the temperature of their outputs based on the building's temperature, so if you're able to keep the machines cool and counteract their heat output, you can end up with a lot of low temperature polluted water and carbon dioxide. Then using the cool (say, 20C) polluted water, use that as a sacrificial medium to run water through an aquatuner to push the polluted water closer to 90C (4-5 rounds) before sending it off to be destroyed in the fertilizer synthesisers. That chilled water is then used to keep the machines cool and not overheating, as well as having excess capacity to act as a heat dump for additional aquatuners for the main base cooling. If I wanted to, I could push the temperature of the system towards 5C and gain an additional loop and ~64kW of cooling capacity from each litre of polluted water before it needs to be flushed.
Hence turning a polluted water/natural gas power loop into a cooling system as well.
edit: In reality though, I'm probably going to end up altering the layout so that the power system will cool a large reservoir with the power system's cooling being a sub-system to that drawing off thermal capacity from the larger tank. That way I won't have to worry about additional thermal load reducing the performance of the cooling system which can cause a negative feedback loop.
As it stands currently, the water gets colder near the surface since only that is interacting with the temperature foolery of the worts. Or by making an intricate gas permeable room and surround it with water.
With temp plates I should be able to grid out the entire backdrop of a holding tank and the wheezewort platform and actually be able to penetrate the entire area of the holding tank and thus cooling the water that much faster.
I'm ok with temp plates even giving wires and plumbing space issues because you never really use that much space for either of those, or just put the wiring/plumbing in the tank walls.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
It appears that between homogeneous bodies of liquids, heat transfer is being done on a per-tile basis and the mass of each tile isn't taken into account as much as it should. A thin layer of water on top of a large column will disproportionately affect the entire column, hence cooling the thin layer will magnify the cooling capabilities of whatever you're using given a large enough volume of water.
Using that bug, it's possible to cool down a STEAM GEYSER with a single aquatuner placing the aquatuner in the very same pool of water it's trying to cool down, thereby ruling without a shadow of doubt, that it's breaking the laws of physics.
There's also another bug where dripping a very small volume of water onto machines deletes heat off the machine
My early game cooling solution is to simply thermally isolate the heat generation points, delete excess using water sieves to prevent them overheating and use wheezeworts to counteract the heat as a result of dupes living as well as the minor amounts of life support systems. Only after I tech up, and find the resources to build out massive robust systems do I even consider going past 6 dupes.
but they're listening to every word I say
I picked it up and am happily (?) doing a LOT of trial and error with all these systems.
Colony #1: Neglected food production for too long
Colony #2: Poorly set up/planned for gas/water flow. Not sinking CO2 low enough, oxy production on upper levels, etc
Colony #3: Two dups asphixiated just standing still on like day 3 because I didn't realize they were trapped.
Colony #4 (current): Just started, but off to a better start. I seem to be running low on oxygen much earlier than on attempts 1 and 2. Not sure why.
Twitch: akThera
Steam: Thera
One tip I did not immediately think of, before watching a fair number of streams: But when you're doing excavation, do not dig out Oxalite. If you leave it there, it continues outputting o2 into the environment. If you dig it up, I don't believe it turns into anything more useful than it already was (maybe it becomes just plain dirt?).
Twitch: akThera
Steam: Thera
Also always build a ladder if your dupes will be working over or near a pit. Its easier to set them up before one falls in than to scramble after.
Three things you can do:
-Find more algae beyond the starting biome, there's usually a few pockets of it out there.
-turn slime into algae with the algae distiller. Slime is a bit tricky to deal with because it will always carry slimelung, but once you learn how to minimize the risk of exposure (ore scrubbers, deoderizers to get rid of the polluted Oxygen that can carry it, store slime in water where it can't evaporate) it's rather painless to deal with.
-Finally, Electrolyzers. These are your end-game goal, as algae is finite and slime eventually goes to a trickle with any puffs you can find and corral, while water spawns endlessly from the steam geysers. That being said, you can't just build one in the middle of your colony and call it a day; they also produce Hydrogen, which can build up at the top of your base, and is as equally unbreathable as CO2. You'll want to give it its own room with at least one air pump, that filters out the Hydrogen to go to a Hydrogen generator while distributing the rest across your base (but fairly far away from your farms until you get some tech to deal with heat, because the Oxegen that comes out is going to be warmer than what most of you mainline crops can handle.)
I also couldn't figure out why the gas filter kepts getting clogged. Then I was like "ooooh... Have to connect a third pipe!"
I am so smart! S...M...R...T!
Twitch: akThera
Steam: Thera
Twitch: akThera
Steam: Thera
So I have NO clean water now, save for the trickle that comes in from the toilets/shower and the gas generator. Everyone has slime lung and the O2 is dropping rapidly.
So... I guess I needed to get on recycling polluted water much earlier? There are some more pockets of it nearby, but it's some digging and building away and everyone is dying.
Might be time to move on to the next colony!
Twitch: akThera
Steam: Thera
but they're listening to every word I say
Yeah, I can't see one anywhere on my map. So if there is one, it's so far away I'll never reach and tap it in time.
Twitch: akThera
Steam: Thera
I think at least one spawns every time. Typically 2.
I was watching my buddy play and he has a steam geyser and a natural gas geyser right below the start.
Edit: rancher update is today! Will definitely be restarting and trying it out.
but they're listening to every word I say
Speaking of Rancher update and geysers, one of the biggest changes isn't the addition to ranching, but the changes to geysers. There are more of them now, including volcanoes that spew out (molten) refined metal. However, they now have a cycle between an active state where they regularly erupt, and dormant state when they don't, meaning that steam or natural gas geyser that you base depends on will eventually dry up for a "lot" of cycles (how long exactly seems random, but we're talking dozens to close to or even over a hundred cycles) and you'll have to make due without. Your Tenured Scientist can study the geyser to tell you exactly when that will happen and how long so that you can prepare, however.
Metal volcano sounds dope and or off the chain.
I can't wait for one to spawn between my base and an ice biomes and spew molten death down on my dupes.
but they're listening to every word I say
this is less practical than it first appears as you would need a dozen or more distillers working flat out to produce enough algae to keep your oxygen stable even with a small population.
At least last time I looked into it. Pretty sure electrolysis is the only long term stable way to get oxygen (using water from a steam vent).
INSTAGRAM
but they're listening to every word I say
Y'know...for science...
The controls would be *really* awkward with controller, or even touchscreen. Also trying to see some of the menus on the smaller screen would be... difficult.
Twitch: akThera
Steam: Thera
Is that what those random chunks of neutronium are? I was wondering about that.
Yup. I think the "classic" geysers still start uncovered, but all the new ones are buried and you have to dig them out, though the classics now also have periods of activity and dormancy (and apparently amount they spew when they do errupt; seen one post about a natural gas geyser that couldn't maintain a single generator.)
Also, you won't find all of the new ones in every map like the old ones, but I want to say that you are guaranteed some variation of a few.
My nearby geyser spews polluted oxygen that's choked with Slimelung. Luckily relatively cool, so it won't F over my base temperature wise, but cleaning it so my whole based doesn't get sick (not to mention not killing off my scientist when they study it to tell me when the dormancy periods are) will take a little work.
I thought the world gen glitched until I dug it out partially.
but they're listening to every word I say
On the upside, you now know where to set up your Puft ranch.