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A shiny new [tech] thread that will be obsolete in 6 months.

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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    That's a shame considering how I - IV were all pretty good.

    I'll forever love the dumb lockpick gag in QFG1.

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    there are a lot of really good dumb jokes in the series

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    jgeisjgeis Registered User regular
    I took a better look at the intervals of that Compaq laptop this morning. The RAM is on a little card that seems to be shared with a lot of other Compaqs from the era, but isn't something that's a standard outside of them. I think I could add RAM chips to the board that's in there, but it would require some very careful soldering. There's like half the board open, but the solder points are tiny.

    20MB of RAM should be enough for pretty much any DOS game, right.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    So many franchises got murdered by the move to 3D.

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    jgeis wrote: »
    I took a better look at the intervals of that Compaq laptop this morning. The RAM is on a little card that seems to be shared with a lot of other Compaqs from the era, but isn't something that's a standard outside of them. I think I could add RAM chips to the board that's in there, but it would require some very careful soldering. There's like half the board open, but the solder points are tiny.

    20MB of RAM should be enough for pretty much any DOS game, right.

    Fuck, 8 MB was plenty of RAM in the era of that CPU. 20 back then is like building a computer now with 64 gigs of RAM.

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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    yea for a 486, 20MB is overkill. If it was at least a Pentium 90 you could get going a lot of WIN95 games.

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    When my parents got our first desktop computer built it was a 486SX 33MHz. The guy building it was like "you've got kids, you're gonna need extra RAM and a graphics card so they can play games, so they optioned up to 4MB of RAM and a 1MB SVGA card. It ran DOOM buttery-smooth at a nice framerate.

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    JedocJedoc In the scuppers with the staggers and jagsRegistered User regular
    jgeis wrote: »
    I took a better look at the intervals of that Compaq laptop this morning. The RAM is on a little card that seems to be shared with a lot of other Compaqs from the era, but isn't something that's a standard outside of them. I think I could add RAM chips to the board that's in there, but it would require some very careful soldering. There's like half the board open, but the solder points are tiny.

    20MB of RAM should be enough for pretty much any DOS game, right.

    I mean, the Moraff games alone should last you a while.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    the compaq is quite similar to my first computer. the upgrades certainly help things out.. mine could not run Windows 95 with somewhat similar specs

    i spent most of my time in DOS... i dont know if there were any games that actually ran "in" 3.1. i think even the ones that appeared to just covertly reverted to some sort of DOS mode

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    Satanic JesusSatanic Jesus Hi, I'm Liam! with broken glassesRegistered User regular
    So I've had my Moto G4 Play since April 2017, and the battery started draining really fast, even when not being used or on. Is it worth getting a new battery for it, or should I just bite the bullet and buy a new phone?

    my backloggery 3DS: 0533-5338-5186 steam: porcelain_cow goodreads
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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    the compaq is quite similar to my first computer. the upgrades certainly help things out.. mine could not run Windows 95 with somewhat similar specs

    i spent most of my time in DOS... i dont know if there were any games that actually ran "in" 3.1. i think even the ones that appeared to just covertly reverted to some sort of DOS mode

    A fun game that ran in 3.1 was Metal Marines. It opened up two windows, one island yours, and one your enemies. Missiles and mechs flew back and forth between windows. It was a ton of fun.

    3bt37hnj55fi.jpg

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    ah yes thats familiar. the only game i know that played like that was Sim City

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    So I've had my Moto G4 Play since April 2017, and the battery started draining really fast, even when not being used or on. Is it worth getting a new battery for it, or should I just bite the bullet and buy a new phone?

    If the phone is doing everything else fine for you but staying on then of course get a new battery. But sadly your phone does not have a removable battery, so it may be a huge to massive pain in the ass to replace it, which is course their plan for you to get a new one.

    Edit: Oops, looked up wrong version. As below, battery time unless you need more <features>.

    Xeddicus on
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    jgeisjgeis Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    the compaq is quite similar to my first computer. the upgrades certainly help things out.. mine could not run Windows 95 with somewhat similar specs

    i spent most of my time in DOS... i dont know if there were any games that actually ran "in" 3.1. i think even the ones that appeared to just covertly reverted to some sort of DOS mode

    Windows 95 seems fairly responsive but I might go back to 3.11 to get smoother performance. I figure I'll be spending more time in DOS anyway, although some people online seem to thing using DOS mode in Windows 95 gives better performance than installing DOS 6.22 alongside Windows 3.11.

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    ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    So I've had my Moto G4 Play since April 2017, and the battery started draining really fast, even when not being used or on. Is it worth getting a new battery for it, or should I just bite the bullet and buy a new phone?

    If the phone is doing everything else fine for you but staying on then of course get a new battery. But sadly your phone does not have a removable battery, so it may be a huge to massive pain in the ass to replace it, which is course their plan for you to get a new one.

    I think the G4 Play does have a removable battery, though no idea how much it would cost to get a new one. (The non-Play iterations were nonremovable). Might not be a big stretch to just get a new G6 or something.

    Might not be a bad idea to get something new that is still upgrading Android versions too, I suppose. The G4s went up to what, Nougat?

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    jgeisjgeis Registered User regular
    So I've had my Moto G4 Play since April 2017, and the battery started draining really fast, even when not being used or on. Is it worth getting a new battery for it, or should I just bite the bullet and buy a new phone?

    The G4 Play is getting pretty old in terms of tech and features, but if it's still working for you, then you can get a new battery for between $7 and $10. The battery is a GK40 model.

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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    I'm messing around with these new iphone and watch ios updates. These shortcuts seem neat but I have zero use for them. I can't think of anything I do that would need to be grouped together into a keyword activation trigger. Also I barely never talk to siri so the "raise to talk" thing will only be useful when I need to start a timer for the work laminator to heat up.

    I need to find someone with a newer watch so we can test the walkie talkie thing.

    (Switch Friend Code) SW-4910-9735-6014(PSN) timspork (Steam) timspork (XBox) Timspork


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    JedocJedoc In the scuppers with the staggers and jagsRegistered User regular
    Tech thread, I am in the market for a device to stream stuff to my television. Netflix and Youtube and all that jazz. My living room doesn't have any cable or network ports, so I'm limited to wifi.

    The only streaming device I've ever had was an early model Roku, so I don't know what's up with all the new sticks and boxes. Any particularly good or bad products I should watch for?

    GDdCWMm.jpg
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    SporkAndrewSporkAndrew Registered User, ClubPA regular
    We've got a couple of Amazon Fire Sticks and they're good, but frustratingly slow at times. The whole carousel layout will sometimes just freeze up and stop responding for no apparent reason. There's also issues with internal caches where apps (including the built-in Amazon Video streaming) will stop being able to play any video until you reset the thing to factory settings and reinstall everything. They also need to be plugged into an external power source, but that can cause issues with it detecting when it needs to go into standby, especially if you have it plugged into a HDMI switch or something. So occasionally they just don't switch on and you have to yank the power cable out and plug it back in. But we bought them during various sales so they feel like they're worth the £25 spent.

    I've got a Roku3 in the bedroom which is hardwired at the moment, but can also stream well over wifi - even at 1080p. The only issue I've ever come across with that is the YouTube app sometimes deciding to de-sync which just requires restarting the unit. I much prefer the Roku as it has a headphone port in the remote which is more useful than you think and the whole thing just seems more resilient, but it feels like they've stopped putting any effort into the boxes. At least here in the UK Sky poured a ton of money into them and prevented them releasing the Roku3, leaving us only able to get "Now TV" boxes which are just the 720p previous generation Rokus. It might be better over there as mine is an imported US model so some of the subscription stuff and apps aren't available to me.

    The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    I got the 4k Roku using wifi and it works great! No issues.

    (Switch Friend Code) SW-4910-9735-6014(PSN) timspork (Steam) timspork (XBox) Timspork


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    SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    I have the FireStick 1.0 and while it was actively being used, I never had issues with it. Well, it was slow at times, but never had to be reset or anything. Eventually upgraded to a different thing (FireTV.. box) because it had a built-in LAN port and an SD card slot, and I'm a sucker for that sort of thing.

    FireTV Cube is also nice (even though no LAN port), but the Alexa stuff turns some people off because it's always listening.

    sig.gif
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    jgeisjgeis Registered User regular
    I've used a Chromecast and a Roku Stick and I prefer the Chromecast. Not having to worry about another remote and the ease of letting other people take over the media being streamed are big factors for me.

    The Roku's remote was also super flaky but that could have just been an isolated hardware issue with my remote.

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    a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2018
    bowen wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    did some extra reading trying to find The Straight Dope on 5g wireless

    i'm less excited now

    in a nutshell: pure uncut 5G only works up to 1000 feet. That's... not a lot of feet. The carriers are compensating for this with 4G carrier waves somehow to buy extra range, but fundamentally, "real" 5G availability will be very limited, and its only in those circumstances that the miracle speeds/latency will actually work

    also, 5G functions on a wavelength that is extremely susceptible to physical interference including and I quote "leaves on trees" being a measurable source of service degradation

    so I am guessing that they'll eventually get this into homes by doing some sort of a satellite/antenna package, as if it were satellite. so you'll roof mount it where there's the least interference to get the clean signal

    Yup this is that limitation of radio I was talking about over in the house thread. To get more speed you have a tradeoff in both distance and "punching power". Low frequency radio waves can penetrate a lot of things but will have extremely low bandwidth capabilities, but high bandwidth solutions will get blocked by essentially tossing confetti in the way of it.

    You can sort of get around this with multiplexing and using differing modulations on your carrier (think like modems). But you eventually will run into physical limitations with radio and microwave.

    Mesh networks, I think, are the future solution to this... but I have no idea on the practicality of that outside of consumer homes, and even then mesh will have issues getting much further above 1-5gbit speeds.

    The 5G specs have multiple operating modes. The one you guys are talking about is the mmWave (25+GHz carrier frequency) version, which is designed for highly dense urban areas (think Manhattan) where you can stick a micro-cell antenna with fiber backhaul every block. This lets you get a bunch of people off your big expensive towers (and expensive low-freq [sub-GHz] spectrum) while also giving them more speed and better coverage.

    The more relevant operating mode for most people will be the general enhancements to the low-freq spectrum. More encoding modes for more bandwidth, better MIMO support, better efficiency at the edges, etc. This is what Verizon is rolling out as their home-based 5G product - with a stationary antenna and mega-MIMO, real-world downlink speeds of several-hundred Mb should be possible even without mmWave. They're going to market it as "gigabit" and a fiber alternative, which lol (insert speedtest.net screenshot of 970/970 ATT Fiber here), but it should provide a real competitor for cable in a lot of markets.

    a5ehren on
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    djmitchelladjmitchella Registered User regular
    I'm messing around with these new iphone and watch ios updates. These shortcuts seem neat but I have zero use for them. I can't think of anything I do that would need to be grouped together into a keyword activation trigger. Also I barely never talk to siri so the "raise to talk" thing will only be useful when I need to start a timer for the work laminator to heat up.

    I need to find someone with a newer watch so we can test the walkie talkie thing.

    The 'improved speed to launch camera from the lock screen' stuff is definitely noticeable, though -- I still have an iphone 6 and it basically launches the camera instantly now, which is pretty nice. It also seems more tolerant about what sort of swipe it needs, too, because before, about half the time it would just bounce the camera into view for an instant and then back off again, but now it always works.

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    godmodegodmode Southeast JapanRegistered User regular
    I saw the measurement stuff using the camera on the news. Have you tried that yet? That’s a neat little trick.

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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    godmode wrote: »
    I saw the measurement stuff using the camera on the news. Have you tried that yet? That’s a neat little trick.

    I tried it. No idea how accurate it is. I guess it would be useful in a situation where you need a rough estimate and don't have a real measuring device.

    (Switch Friend Code) SW-4910-9735-6014(PSN) timspork (Steam) timspork (XBox) Timspork


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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    a5ehren wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    did some extra reading trying to find The Straight Dope on 5g wireless

    i'm less excited now

    in a nutshell: pure uncut 5G only works up to 1000 feet. That's... not a lot of feet. The carriers are compensating for this with 4G carrier waves somehow to buy extra range, but fundamentally, "real" 5G availability will be very limited, and its only in those circumstances that the miracle speeds/latency will actually work

    also, 5G functions on a wavelength that is extremely susceptible to physical interference including and I quote "leaves on trees" being a measurable source of service degradation

    so I am guessing that they'll eventually get this into homes by doing some sort of a satellite/antenna package, as if it were satellite. so you'll roof mount it where there's the least interference to get the clean signal

    Yup this is that limitation of radio I was talking about over in the house thread. To get more speed you have a tradeoff in both distance and "punching power". Low frequency radio waves can penetrate a lot of things but will have extremely low bandwidth capabilities, but high bandwidth solutions will get blocked by essentially tossing confetti in the way of it.

    You can sort of get around this with multiplexing and using differing modulations on your carrier (think like modems). But you eventually will run into physical limitations with radio and microwave.

    Mesh networks, I think, are the future solution to this... but I have no idea on the practicality of that outside of consumer homes, and even then mesh will have issues getting much further above 1-5gbit speeds.

    The 5G specs have multiple operating modes. The one you guys are talking about is the mmWave (25+GHz carrier frequency) version, which is designed for highly dense urban areas (think Manhattan) where you can stick a micro-cell antenna with fiber backhaul every block. This lets you get a bunch of people off your big expensive towers (and expensive low-freq [sub-GHz] spectrum) while also giving them more speed and better coverage.

    The more relevant operating mode for most people will be the general enhancements to the low-freq spectrum. More encoding modes for more bandwidth, better MIMO support, better efficiency at the edges, etc. This is what Verizon is rolling out as their home-based 5G product - with a stationary antenna and mega-MIMO, real-world downlink speeds of several-hundred Mb should be possible even without mmWave. They're going to market it as "gigabit" and a fiber alternative, which lol (insert speedtest.net screenshot of 970/970 ATT Fiber here), but it should provide a real competitor for cable in a lot of markets.

    Which is fine! But radio and the demodulation tech that you can put in a home with mesh is probably going to hit a brick wall and barely keep pace with wired ethernet in home. Once 5 and 10 gbps are in consumer tech, wifi tech will probably be hitting that 700-1000 mbps speed. They kind of have that 500 meg stuff working. But it requires a lot of pieces to go right. You hardly ever get it in real world situations.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    godmode wrote: »
    I saw the measurement stuff using the camera on the news. Have you tried that yet? That’s a neat little trick.

    I tried it. No idea how accurate it is. I guess it would be useful in a situation where you need a rough estimate and don't have a real measuring device.

    i also tried it. it does better with smaller more distinct objects with good contrast (which makes sense for a camera driven model)

    i measured my PC case, and it was fairly accurate

    then I measured one of the walls in my room, and it was extremely not-accurate (off by many feet)

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    a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    did some extra reading trying to find The Straight Dope on 5g wireless

    i'm less excited now

    in a nutshell: pure uncut 5G only works up to 1000 feet. That's... not a lot of feet. The carriers are compensating for this with 4G carrier waves somehow to buy extra range, but fundamentally, "real" 5G availability will be very limited, and its only in those circumstances that the miracle speeds/latency will actually work

    also, 5G functions on a wavelength that is extremely susceptible to physical interference including and I quote "leaves on trees" being a measurable source of service degradation

    so I am guessing that they'll eventually get this into homes by doing some sort of a satellite/antenna package, as if it were satellite. so you'll roof mount it where there's the least interference to get the clean signal

    Yup this is that limitation of radio I was talking about over in the house thread. To get more speed you have a tradeoff in both distance and "punching power". Low frequency radio waves can penetrate a lot of things but will have extremely low bandwidth capabilities, but high bandwidth solutions will get blocked by essentially tossing confetti in the way of it.

    You can sort of get around this with multiplexing and using differing modulations on your carrier (think like modems). But you eventually will run into physical limitations with radio and microwave.

    Mesh networks, I think, are the future solution to this... but I have no idea on the practicality of that outside of consumer homes, and even then mesh will have issues getting much further above 1-5gbit speeds.

    The 5G specs have multiple operating modes. The one you guys are talking about is the mmWave (25+GHz carrier frequency) version, which is designed for highly dense urban areas (think Manhattan) where you can stick a micro-cell antenna with fiber backhaul every block. This lets you get a bunch of people off your big expensive towers (and expensive low-freq [sub-GHz] spectrum) while also giving them more speed and better coverage.

    The more relevant operating mode for most people will be the general enhancements to the low-freq spectrum. More encoding modes for more bandwidth, better MIMO support, better efficiency at the edges, etc. This is what Verizon is rolling out as their home-based 5G product - with a stationary antenna and mega-MIMO, real-world downlink speeds of several-hundred Mb should be possible even without mmWave. They're going to market it as "gigabit" and a fiber alternative, which lol (insert speedtest.net screenshot of 970/970 ATT Fiber here), but it should provide a real competitor for cable in a lot of markets.

    Which is fine! But radio and the demodulation tech that you can put in a home with mesh is probably going to hit a brick wall and barely keep pace with wired ethernet in home. Once 5 and 10 gbps are in consumer tech, wifi tech will probably be hitting that 700-1000 mbps speed. They kind of have that 500 meg stuff working. But it requires a lot of pieces to go right. You hardly ever get it in real world situations.

    I think you're thinking about 802.11ax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ax

    I'm talking about carrier-level stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G#Technology

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    a5ehren wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    did some extra reading trying to find The Straight Dope on 5g wireless

    i'm less excited now

    in a nutshell: pure uncut 5G only works up to 1000 feet. That's... not a lot of feet. The carriers are compensating for this with 4G carrier waves somehow to buy extra range, but fundamentally, "real" 5G availability will be very limited, and its only in those circumstances that the miracle speeds/latency will actually work

    also, 5G functions on a wavelength that is extremely susceptible to physical interference including and I quote "leaves on trees" being a measurable source of service degradation

    so I am guessing that they'll eventually get this into homes by doing some sort of a satellite/antenna package, as if it were satellite. so you'll roof mount it where there's the least interference to get the clean signal

    Yup this is that limitation of radio I was talking about over in the house thread. To get more speed you have a tradeoff in both distance and "punching power". Low frequency radio waves can penetrate a lot of things but will have extremely low bandwidth capabilities, but high bandwidth solutions will get blocked by essentially tossing confetti in the way of it.

    You can sort of get around this with multiplexing and using differing modulations on your carrier (think like modems). But you eventually will run into physical limitations with radio and microwave.

    Mesh networks, I think, are the future solution to this... but I have no idea on the practicality of that outside of consumer homes, and even then mesh will have issues getting much further above 1-5gbit speeds.

    The 5G specs have multiple operating modes. The one you guys are talking about is the mmWave (25+GHz carrier frequency) version, which is designed for highly dense urban areas (think Manhattan) where you can stick a micro-cell antenna with fiber backhaul every block. This lets you get a bunch of people off your big expensive towers (and expensive low-freq [sub-GHz] spectrum) while also giving them more speed and better coverage.

    The more relevant operating mode for most people will be the general enhancements to the low-freq spectrum. More encoding modes for more bandwidth, better MIMO support, better efficiency at the edges, etc. This is what Verizon is rolling out as their home-based 5G product - with a stationary antenna and mega-MIMO, real-world downlink speeds of several-hundred Mb should be possible even without mmWave. They're going to market it as "gigabit" and a fiber alternative, which lol (insert speedtest.net screenshot of 970/970 ATT Fiber here), but it should provide a real competitor for cable in a lot of markets.

    Which is fine! But radio and the demodulation tech that you can put in a home with mesh is probably going to hit a brick wall and barely keep pace with wired ethernet in home. Once 5 and 10 gbps are in consumer tech, wifi tech will probably be hitting that 700-1000 mbps speed. They kind of have that 500 meg stuff working. But it requires a lot of pieces to go right. You hardly ever get it in real world situations.

    I think you're thinking about 802.11ax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ax

    I'm talking about carrier-level stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G#Technology

    Right the whole point was you're not getting that shit in your home.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Also, I was wrong about Verizon's home product. They're launching on 28GHz, so I'm guessing they're doing like neighborhood-level cells to eliminate the last-mile costs of wired options.

    They're saying "300Mbps typical", which is still a pretty big improvement for the vast majority of people over mid-tier cable.

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    a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    did some extra reading trying to find The Straight Dope on 5g wireless

    i'm less excited now

    in a nutshell: pure uncut 5G only works up to 1000 feet. That's... not a lot of feet. The carriers are compensating for this with 4G carrier waves somehow to buy extra range, but fundamentally, "real" 5G availability will be very limited, and its only in those circumstances that the miracle speeds/latency will actually work

    also, 5G functions on a wavelength that is extremely susceptible to physical interference including and I quote "leaves on trees" being a measurable source of service degradation

    so I am guessing that they'll eventually get this into homes by doing some sort of a satellite/antenna package, as if it were satellite. so you'll roof mount it where there's the least interference to get the clean signal

    Yup this is that limitation of radio I was talking about over in the house thread. To get more speed you have a tradeoff in both distance and "punching power". Low frequency radio waves can penetrate a lot of things but will have extremely low bandwidth capabilities, but high bandwidth solutions will get blocked by essentially tossing confetti in the way of it.

    You can sort of get around this with multiplexing and using differing modulations on your carrier (think like modems). But you eventually will run into physical limitations with radio and microwave.

    Mesh networks, I think, are the future solution to this... but I have no idea on the practicality of that outside of consumer homes, and even then mesh will have issues getting much further above 1-5gbit speeds.

    The 5G specs have multiple operating modes. The one you guys are talking about is the mmWave (25+GHz carrier frequency) version, which is designed for highly dense urban areas (think Manhattan) where you can stick a micro-cell antenna with fiber backhaul every block. This lets you get a bunch of people off your big expensive towers (and expensive low-freq [sub-GHz] spectrum) while also giving them more speed and better coverage.

    The more relevant operating mode for most people will be the general enhancements to the low-freq spectrum. More encoding modes for more bandwidth, better MIMO support, better efficiency at the edges, etc. This is what Verizon is rolling out as their home-based 5G product - with a stationary antenna and mega-MIMO, real-world downlink speeds of several-hundred Mb should be possible even without mmWave. They're going to market it as "gigabit" and a fiber alternative, which lol (insert speedtest.net screenshot of 970/970 ATT Fiber here), but it should provide a real competitor for cable in a lot of markets.

    Which is fine! But radio and the demodulation tech that you can put in a home with mesh is probably going to hit a brick wall and barely keep pace with wired ethernet in home. Once 5 and 10 gbps are in consumer tech, wifi tech will probably be hitting that 700-1000 mbps speed. They kind of have that 500 meg stuff working. But it requires a lot of pieces to go right. You hardly ever get it in real world situations.

    I think you're thinking about 802.11ax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ax

    I'm talking about carrier-level stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G#Technology

    Right the whole point was you're not getting that shit in your home.

    And my point is that you're probably wrong? Dealing with a base station that isn't moving and doesn't have the power/space constraints of a cell phone is much easier. They can stick 32 antennas in the thing and do all kinds of MIMO and Carrier Aggregation stuff to boost speeds in a useful way.

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    djmitchelladjmitchella Registered User regular
    ios12 - aaaaahhhhh, they finally enabled the press-and-hold for free cursor motion on pre-3d-touch phones, which fixes probably the biggest day-to-day annoyance I have with my phone. So that gets me one more year with no need to upgrade, I reckon.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    a5ehren wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    did some extra reading trying to find The Straight Dope on 5g wireless

    i'm less excited now

    in a nutshell: pure uncut 5G only works up to 1000 feet. That's... not a lot of feet. The carriers are compensating for this with 4G carrier waves somehow to buy extra range, but fundamentally, "real" 5G availability will be very limited, and its only in those circumstances that the miracle speeds/latency will actually work

    also, 5G functions on a wavelength that is extremely susceptible to physical interference including and I quote "leaves on trees" being a measurable source of service degradation

    so I am guessing that they'll eventually get this into homes by doing some sort of a satellite/antenna package, as if it were satellite. so you'll roof mount it where there's the least interference to get the clean signal

    Yup this is that limitation of radio I was talking about over in the house thread. To get more speed you have a tradeoff in both distance and "punching power". Low frequency radio waves can penetrate a lot of things but will have extremely low bandwidth capabilities, but high bandwidth solutions will get blocked by essentially tossing confetti in the way of it.

    You can sort of get around this with multiplexing and using differing modulations on your carrier (think like modems). But you eventually will run into physical limitations with radio and microwave.

    Mesh networks, I think, are the future solution to this... but I have no idea on the practicality of that outside of consumer homes, and even then mesh will have issues getting much further above 1-5gbit speeds.

    The 5G specs have multiple operating modes. The one you guys are talking about is the mmWave (25+GHz carrier frequency) version, which is designed for highly dense urban areas (think Manhattan) where you can stick a micro-cell antenna with fiber backhaul every block. This lets you get a bunch of people off your big expensive towers (and expensive low-freq [sub-GHz] spectrum) while also giving them more speed and better coverage.

    The more relevant operating mode for most people will be the general enhancements to the low-freq spectrum. More encoding modes for more bandwidth, better MIMO support, better efficiency at the edges, etc. This is what Verizon is rolling out as their home-based 5G product - with a stationary antenna and mega-MIMO, real-world downlink speeds of several-hundred Mb should be possible even without mmWave. They're going to market it as "gigabit" and a fiber alternative, which lol (insert speedtest.net screenshot of 970/970 ATT Fiber here), but it should provide a real competitor for cable in a lot of markets.

    Which is fine! But radio and the demodulation tech that you can put in a home with mesh is probably going to hit a brick wall and barely keep pace with wired ethernet in home. Once 5 and 10 gbps are in consumer tech, wifi tech will probably be hitting that 700-1000 mbps speed. They kind of have that 500 meg stuff working. But it requires a lot of pieces to go right. You hardly ever get it in real world situations.

    I think you're thinking about 802.11ax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ax

    I'm talking about carrier-level stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G#Technology

    Right the whole point was you're not getting that shit in your home.

    And my point is that you're probably wrong? Dealing with a base station that isn't moving and doesn't have the power/space constraints of a cell phone is much easier. They can stick 32 antennas in the thing and do all kinds of MIMO and Carrier Aggregation stuff to boost speeds in a useful way.

    Right... and my claim was it'd never beat wired.

    Which is going to be true until physics gets rewritten, very likely. Unless you're going to cheat and go "yeah well the wired ISP is doing shitty tactic #1 so wireless beats that in this situation" which can be true.

    Wireless isn't replacing wired, wired is here to stay. Wireless replacing wired in homes is a "fusion is 10 years away" style claim. Many people probably prefer wireless because of the cost and effort in comparison to wired, but wired will always beat it and the tech heavy people will lean on it hard.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    KarlKarl Registered User regular
    A powerline'd up connection means I get the most out of my internet

    7646634202.png


    For some reason my WiFi tanks my speed. Maybe my Ikea sofa is has somekind of anti-WiFi shielding that degrades the signal?

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Wifi will tank if you have a lot of interference (home phones, other networks, etc)

    poorly shielded microwaves (most of them) will brick a connection depending on the type of router/devices being used (G is the most susceptible to it). We had someone in my wow guild several years ago that would disconnect from raid, every time like clockwork. He couldn't figure it out, the stuff on the other side of the house worked fine and still had connection, but his would lose it. Turns out, his mom would make popcorn every night at the same time for jeopardy and it would basically block off his room which was behind the kitchen and the router was on the other side of the kitchen.

    As soon as he told me the other side of his house was fine with wifi I was nearly 100% positive it was a microwave doing it.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    ASimPersonASimPerson Cold... and hard.Registered User regular
    I'm still frustrated that my parents' 4000 sq ft 2008-built house they moved into 3 years ago was still wired for phones but didn't have a shred of Ethernet. So there's plates in every room for coax and RJ-45. It would've been super easy to put in some Cat5e when the place was built.

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    a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    did some extra reading trying to find The Straight Dope on 5g wireless

    i'm less excited now

    in a nutshell: pure uncut 5G only works up to 1000 feet. That's... not a lot of feet. The carriers are compensating for this with 4G carrier waves somehow to buy extra range, but fundamentally, "real" 5G availability will be very limited, and its only in those circumstances that the miracle speeds/latency will actually work

    also, 5G functions on a wavelength that is extremely susceptible to physical interference including and I quote "leaves on trees" being a measurable source of service degradation

    so I am guessing that they'll eventually get this into homes by doing some sort of a satellite/antenna package, as if it were satellite. so you'll roof mount it where there's the least interference to get the clean signal

    Yup this is that limitation of radio I was talking about over in the house thread. To get more speed you have a tradeoff in both distance and "punching power". Low frequency radio waves can penetrate a lot of things but will have extremely low bandwidth capabilities, but high bandwidth solutions will get blocked by essentially tossing confetti in the way of it.

    You can sort of get around this with multiplexing and using differing modulations on your carrier (think like modems). But you eventually will run into physical limitations with radio and microwave.

    Mesh networks, I think, are the future solution to this... but I have no idea on the practicality of that outside of consumer homes, and even then mesh will have issues getting much further above 1-5gbit speeds.

    The 5G specs have multiple operating modes. The one you guys are talking about is the mmWave (25+GHz carrier frequency) version, which is designed for highly dense urban areas (think Manhattan) where you can stick a micro-cell antenna with fiber backhaul every block. This lets you get a bunch of people off your big expensive towers (and expensive low-freq [sub-GHz] spectrum) while also giving them more speed and better coverage.

    The more relevant operating mode for most people will be the general enhancements to the low-freq spectrum. More encoding modes for more bandwidth, better MIMO support, better efficiency at the edges, etc. This is what Verizon is rolling out as their home-based 5G product - with a stationary antenna and mega-MIMO, real-world downlink speeds of several-hundred Mb should be possible even without mmWave. They're going to market it as "gigabit" and a fiber alternative, which lol (insert speedtest.net screenshot of 970/970 ATT Fiber here), but it should provide a real competitor for cable in a lot of markets.

    Which is fine! But radio and the demodulation tech that you can put in a home with mesh is probably going to hit a brick wall and barely keep pace with wired ethernet in home. Once 5 and 10 gbps are in consumer tech, wifi tech will probably be hitting that 700-1000 mbps speed. They kind of have that 500 meg stuff working. But it requires a lot of pieces to go right. You hardly ever get it in real world situations.

    I think you're thinking about 802.11ax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ax

    I'm talking about carrier-level stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G#Technology

    Right the whole point was you're not getting that shit in your home.

    And my point is that you're probably wrong? Dealing with a base station that isn't moving and doesn't have the power/space constraints of a cell phone is much easier. They can stick 32 antennas in the thing and do all kinds of MIMO and Carrier Aggregation stuff to boost speeds in a useful way.

    Right... and my claim was it'd never beat wired.

    Which is going to be true until physics gets rewritten, very likely. Unless you're going to cheat and go "yeah well the wired ISP is doing shitty tactic #1 so wireless beats that in this situation" which can be true.

    Wireless isn't replacing wired, wired is here to stay. Wireless replacing wired in homes is a "fusion is 10 years away" style claim. Many people probably prefer wireless because of the cost and effort in comparison to wired, but wired will always beat it and the tech heavy people will lean on it hard.

    Wireless has already almost completely replaced wired for home LANs. Only nerds like us still insist on wired ethernet, and even then the equipment to go beyond gigabit is either impossible to find (the new 2.5/5 stuff) or eye-wateringly expensive (10G anything). I bet we see affordable high-end 802.11ax equipment before we see any meaningful penetration of 5G/10G wired gear in the home.

    If Verizon/ATT/whomever rolls in and says "here's a box that gets you ~300Mb for $50/mo and we'll raise the data cap on your phone plan if you sign up today!" and your only other option is 40Mb cable for $75/mo, you don't really care if it is wired or not. My concern for gaming would be latency, but if they're doing this the way I think they must be, it may not be too bad.

    FTTH deployments are already slowing way down (Verizon and Google already stopped, ATT isn't expanding as fast). DOCSIS 3.1 is somewhat competitive, but has a small footprint at the moment.

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    ASimPerson wrote: »
    I'm still frustrated that my parents' 4000 sq ft 2008-built house they moved into 3 years ago was still wired for phones but didn't have a shred of Ethernet. So there's plates in every room for coax and RJ-45. It would've been super easy to put in some Cat5e when the place was built.

    this has been the story of my life for the past 3 weeks at the house i'm buying.

    it has been a whole thing. dunno why people don't just run ethernet cable when they build houses, it's so free and can be used for so many things. very frustrating.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    ASimPerson wrote: »
    I'm still frustrated that my parents' 4000 sq ft 2008-built house they moved into 3 years ago was still wired for phones but didn't have a shred of Ethernet. So there's plates in every room for coax and RJ-45. It would've been super easy to put in some Cat5e when the place was built.

    The worst part? rj11 will fit into rj45 and you can use cat5e in place of phone cord. It just needs to be handled a bit differently at the demarc and you can't just daisychain the fuckers... which most people do.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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