I think it would have been cooler if they did this:
They mess up and the Rosa event does not happen. Then, because it is a fixed point, something drastic happens. As a result, they have to cross their own timeline to fix it.
This would have cost too much to do though, but I love it when The Doctor bends the rules.
Quite enjoying the series and the new direction so far. (Big points to the new titles and literally all the music.) One thing I wasn't keen about with this episode, though:
I absolutely think that last scene on the bus would've been much more effective without Rise Up. Actually, I think it would've been great without any music.
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Not so sure about the use of a pop song at the end, although it set a poignant tone for the ending.
Reminded me too much of how the first season (they stopped doing it after that) of 'Stargate: Universe' did much the same thing and drew some 'Dawson's Creek' comparisons.
That was... uncomfortable, but in a "holy shit the 50s were horrible" way as opposed to "holy shit they had no idea how to treat this properly" way, so good
There was some top notch acting from the whole cast - Walsh really sold it, I thought
Yeah, but the Doctor is an alien. That kind of overrides her whiteness.
While of course race wouldn't mean the same thing to Time Lords as it does to us, as a human appearing being passing as human most of the time, her alienness does not override her whiteness, just as it did not override her previous selves' maleness.
It is a bit jarring that for many of the other historical periods they put on a costume and maybe get a brief spiel about fitting in, but in this episode they just blithely wander out as they are.
"Always be a little bit foreign wherever you go, because everyone knows foreigners are a little bit stupid."
It's not a Doctor Who quote, but it feels applicable. They're dressed oddly, they talk oddly, they don't seem to know how things are done in these here parts, and they get given a little bit of leeway because of that.
It may not be intentional, but does help them a bit.
I think there's a Poirot line about it, too. He could speak perfect english, but he chooses not to.
It is a bit jarring that for many of the other historical periods they put on a costume and maybe get a brief spiel about fitting in, but in this episode they just blithely wander out as they are.
The Doctor and his companions only seem to dress in period clothing when they can be bothered - at least in the post-2005 show. Donna doesn't bother for ancient Pompeii, Rory and Amy are wandering around 16th-century Venice in modern dress, Rose is in period dress when she meets Charles Dickens but not when she meets Queen Victoria, Martha is just in normal clothes for their trip to Elizabethan London, and so on. It seems to be at the whim of the writer/costume team for that episode.
And the Doctor doesn't change outfit very often at all - Ten's footwear being the example most likely to stand out.
Sometimes there's an explanation. Sometimes they're in the wrong time because the Doctor/TARDIS screwed up (Rose was dressed for 1979 when they landed in 1879). Other times it seems like a genuine desire to cosplay, like when Clara wanted to see Robin Hood.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
To be fair if your in a time machine with an infinite closet I would be in period dress constantly. Not when time travelling or anything. Just because.
Not so sure about the use of a pop song at the end, although it set a poignant tone for the ending.
Reminded me too much of how the first season (they stopped doing it after that) of 'Stargate: Universe' did much the same thing and drew some 'Dawson's Creek' comparisons.
Yeah, I feel like this was another solid episode, and in particular, gave each character something constructive to do and fill out their character at bit more, which was one of the nitpick's I had with the last one.
I really liked how they had a good balance between "I don't know history, explain who Rosa Parks was" and "I'm a black character, so I must know all about Rosa Parks". Particularly about why Graham knew about the bus driver's name. Also, when Yas was told she was Mexican really hit close to home, since a good friend of mine who is Indian-American how often, especially when she was in college, got a lot of (not good) remarks about being Mexican.
If I had one nitpick, it was with ending scene where it was kinda too much of here, gather 'round class as the Doctor will explain how the story continues. I feel like they should be kinda doing something, or just looking a bit more natural? I guess its easier if its just 1 companion that makes it feel more like a chat, but with an audience of 3, it just seemed a little...awkward, I guess?
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
Yeah, I feel like this was another solid episode, and in particular, gave each character something constructive to do and fill out their character at bit more, which was one of the nitpick's I had with the last one.
I really liked how they had a good balance between "I don't know history, explain who Rosa Parks was" and "I'm a black character, so I must know all about Rosa Parks". Particularly about why Graham knew about the bus driver's name. Also, when Yas was told she was Mexican really hit close to home, since a good friend of mine who is Indian-American how often, especially when she was in college, got a lot of (not good) remarks about being Mexican.
If I had one nitpick, it was with ending scene where it was kinda too much of here, gather 'round class as the Doctor will explain how the story continues. I feel like they should be kinda doing something, or just looking a bit more natural? I guess its easier if its just 1 companion that makes it feel more like a chat, but with an audience of 3, it just seemed a little...awkward, I guess?
I think one of the reasons for the endcap was because while it's an international franchise, it's still by and for it's home audience.
While a good portion of the first world might know the name, outside of the US there'd be a good portion who don't, or don't know a lot beyond her name.
So why not educate as well, instead of just entertain?
Yeah, I feel like this was another solid episode, and in particular, gave each character something constructive to do and fill out their character at bit more, which was one of the nitpick's I had with the last one.
I really liked how they had a good balance between "I don't know history, explain who Rosa Parks was" and "I'm a black character, so I must know all about Rosa Parks". Particularly about why Graham knew about the bus driver's name. Also, when Yas was told she was Mexican really hit close to home, since a good friend of mine who is Indian-American how often, especially when she was in college, got a lot of (not good) remarks about being Mexican.
If I had one nitpick, it was with ending scene where it was kinda too much of here, gather 'round class as the Doctor will explain how the story continues. I feel like they should be kinda doing something, or just looking a bit more natural? I guess its easier if its just 1 companion that makes it feel more like a chat, but with an audience of 3, it just seemed a little...awkward, I guess?
I think one of the reasons for the endcap was because while it's an international franchise, it's still by and for it's home audience.
While a good portion of the first world might know the name, outside of the US there'd be a good portion who don't, or don't know a lot beyond her name.
So why not educate as well, instead of just entertain?
Oh, I have no problem with them educating, all for it in fact, it just felt a bit awkward/artificial about how they went about it. Like they were just kinda standing around. Like the Doctor could be narrating future/past events, while she was messing around with the controls on the TARDIS to get them to the asteroid and have it flow better.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
I think it would have been cooler if they did this:
They mess up and the Rosa event does not happen. Then, because it is a fixed point, something drastic happens. As a result, they have to cross their own timeline to fix it.
This would have cost too much to do though, but I love it when The Doctor bends the rules.
The "finding themselves in an iconic and pivotal moment in history" aspect of the episode made me put on the old Red Dwarf episode Tikka to Ride (S7E1) afterwards. And that's pretty much what happens in that! Only with a different moment in history.
I think it would have been cooler if they did this:
They mess up and the Rosa event does not happen. Then, because it is a fixed point, something drastic happens. As a result, they have to cross their own timeline to fix it.
This would have cost too much to do though, but I love it when The Doctor bends the rules.
The "finding themselves in an iconic and pivotal moment in history" aspect of the episode made me put on the old Red Dwarf episode Tikka to Ride (S7E1) afterwards. And that's pretty much what happens in that! Only with a different moment in history.
I think it would have been cooler if they did this:
They mess up and the Rosa event does not happen. Then, because it is a fixed point, something drastic happens. As a result, they have to cross their own timeline to fix it.
This would have cost too much to do though, but I love it when The Doctor bends the rules.
The "finding themselves in an iconic and pivotal moment in history" aspect of the episode made me put on the old Red Dwarf episode Tikka to Ride (S7E1) afterwards. And that's pretty much what happens in that! Only with a different moment in history.
I think this episode more or less stuck the landing on the historical sensitivity. The actual plot was pretty iffy though - I’m unclear why the doctor didn’t just lock the time-racist up once she figured out his plan and had to resort to complicated other fixes.
I do think that watching this episode with my 8-yr old kid was almost definitely a parenting fail though. Despite a pre- and post-episode chat about the real Rosa Parks and the fact that there were not time travelers in the real event, I remain very worried about the kid took away from it. Would not be surprised if I get taken aside by the teacher after school tomorrow.
I think this episode more or less stuck the landing on the historical sensitivity. The actual plot was pretty iffy though - I’m unclear why the doctor didn’t just lock the time-racist up once she figured out his plan and had to resort to complicated other fixes.
I do think that watching this episode with my 8-yr old kid was almost definitely a parenting fail though. Despite a pre- and post-episode chat about the real Rosa Parks and the fact that there were not time travelers in the real event, I remain very worried about the kid took away from it. Would not be surprised if I get taken aside by the teacher after school tomorrow.
I guess the Doctor and company performed their jobs to perfection then.
I dunno if I'd be that harsh on your kid. I think kids pick up on more than people in general give them credit for.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
I could have done without the evil music for evil guy. That was just bad. I think this villain was given the least amount of thought possible and is near the bottom of the dr who villain list, but he did do the job of giving the show a reason to have the doctor on that bus during that moment in time. Overall though, I think this was a pretty strong gut punch and a good reminder of just how terrible the past was and why we need to keep fighting to make it better.
There wouldn't happen to be a Who-fan out there that was also an adult or near-adult in Birmingham in the 50s, would there? Reading about their reaction to how the racism was depicted in the show and how close to reality it got would be interesting. Incredibly depressing, sure, but still interesting.
Murray Gold was good, but after ten years solid, I am beyond ready for a change and I am loving what Segun Akinola is bringing to the table.
I had really missed the ethereal experimental electronic vibes from earlier incarnations of the show so personally it's wonderful to see a return to that.
I’m really appreciating Akinola’s restraint. Gold’s music at times felt like a crutch for some of the writing - like, his music would tell me to feel a particular emotion, whereas Akinola’s music so far is... not sure how to express it, but it’s like it’s giving me space and trusting me to feel it myself.
So if the writing/acting/direction convinces me to feel something, I feel it. I don’t feel nagged into feeling it.
And that’s probably part of the reason that Rise Up felt so out of place for me in Rosa. It felt like an instruction to feel in a series that has otherwise (three episodes in) let me feel on my own terms.
I would like the new theme to land a little more strongly, I think. It starts and it takes me a second or two to pick up the thread every time. The new titles are lovely, though.
The incidental music is fine, I guess. I honestly haven't noticed it much, which may be a measure of its success or its failure, I dunno. There are no strong identifiable tunes that drive home the feeling of a scene, which was sometimes annoying and sometimes great under Gold.
I was watching the Capaldi episode with the killer robots. It is funny how Doctor Who spaceships look like factories.
Pfft, beats NuTrek, place looks like a brewery crossed with an apple store.
Because it is. 2009 Trek engine room scenes where all set in a brewery and the whole designe aesthetic was deliberately chosen to resemble an apple store.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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This would have cost too much to do though, but I love it when The Doctor bends the rules.
So awesome :heartbeat:
Quite enjoying the series and the new direction so far. (Big points to the new titles and literally all the music.) One thing I wasn't keen about with this episode, though:
Not so sure about the use of a pop song at the end, although it set a poignant tone for the ending.
Reminded me too much of how the first season (they stopped doing it after that) of 'Stargate: Universe' did much the same thing and drew some 'Dawson's Creek' comparisons.
I think that (head-canon)
That was... uncomfortable, but in a "holy shit the 50s were horrible" way as opposed to "holy shit they had no idea how to treat this properly" way, so good
There was some top notch acting from the whole cast - Walsh really sold it, I thought
While of course race wouldn't mean the same thing to Time Lords as it does to us, as a human appearing being passing as human most of the time, her alienness does not override her whiteness, just as it did not override her previous selves' maleness.
It may not be intentional, but does help them a bit.
I think there's a Poirot line about it, too. He could speak perfect english, but he chooses not to.
I've never found it jarring, especially when the time period is relatively near.
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The Doctor and his companions only seem to dress in period clothing when they can be bothered - at least in the post-2005 show. Donna doesn't bother for ancient Pompeii, Rory and Amy are wandering around 16th-century Venice in modern dress, Rose is in period dress when she meets Charles Dickens but not when she meets Queen Victoria, Martha is just in normal clothes for their trip to Elizabethan London, and so on. It seems to be at the whim of the writer/costume team for that episode.
And the Doctor doesn't change outfit very often at all - Ten's footwear being the example most likely to stand out.
Most of the time they're tourists rather than on a mission.
I get it’s an old callback but
If I had one nitpick, it was with ending scene where it was kinda too much of here, gather 'round class as the Doctor will explain how the story continues. I feel like they should be kinda doing something, or just looking a bit more natural? I guess its easier if its just 1 companion that makes it feel more like a chat, but with an audience of 3, it just seemed a little...awkward, I guess?
The TARDIS can be a pain in the ass.
I think one of the reasons for the endcap was because while it's an international franchise, it's still by and for it's home audience.
While a good portion of the first world might know the name, outside of the US there'd be a good portion who don't, or don't know a lot beyond her name.
So why not educate as well, instead of just entertain?
Oh, I have no problem with them educating, all for it in fact, it just felt a bit awkward/artificial about how they went about it. Like they were just kinda standing around. Like the Doctor could be narrating future/past events, while she was messing around with the controls on the TARDIS to get them to the asteroid and have it flow better.
The "finding themselves in an iconic and pivotal moment in history" aspect of the episode made me put on the old Red Dwarf episode Tikka to Ride (S7E1) afterwards. And that's pretty much what happens in that! Only with a different moment in history.
Steam | XBL
Him too.
Steam | XBL
Georgia Tennant is the daughter of The Doctor, The Doctor's Daughter, and The Doctor's Wife.
edit: And obviously the mother of the Doctor's daughter, too.
Sigmund Freud would look at all the potential subtext revolving around that family and go "I am not touching this shit".
The Doctor had a daughter who was played by the daughter of the Doctor, and then got married... and had a daughter.
FTFY
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Graham Norton relevant as always.
I do think that watching this episode with my 8-yr old kid was almost definitely a parenting fail though. Despite a pre- and post-episode chat about the real Rosa Parks and the fact that there were not time travelers in the real event, I remain very worried about the kid took away from it. Would not be surprised if I get taken aside by the teacher after school tomorrow.
I guess the Doctor and company performed their jobs to perfection then.
I dunno if I'd be that harsh on your kid. I think kids pick up on more than people in general give them credit for.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
There wouldn't happen to be a Who-fan out there that was also an adult or near-adult in Birmingham in the 50s, would there? Reading about their reaction to how the racism was depicted in the show and how close to reality it got would be interesting. Incredibly depressing, sure, but still interesting.
I am liking Segun's theme for the Doctor, it's a standout bit of music, but I struggle to latch on to anything else so far.
I had really missed the ethereal experimental electronic vibes from earlier incarnations of the show so personally it's wonderful to see a return to that.
So if the writing/acting/direction convinces me to feel something, I feel it. I don’t feel nagged into feeling it.
The incidental music is fine, I guess. I honestly haven't noticed it much, which may be a measure of its success or its failure, I dunno. There are no strong identifiable tunes that drive home the feeling of a scene, which was sometimes annoying and sometimes great under Gold.
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Pfft, beats NuTrek, place looks like a brewery crossed with an apple store.
Was good!