my comment about jousting had nothing to do with card economy
and more about an apparent lack of counterspells, removals, and whatnot
if your opponent has a plan, enough turns, and mana, he will execute his plan, it seems to be
the only thing you can do is execute harder. i think the people I've lost to could have won even if they couldn't see my side of the board, because what I was doing had absolutely no bearing on 90% of their decision making
my comment about jousting had nothing to do with card economy
and more about an apparent lack of counterspells, removals, and whatnot
if your opponent has a plan, enough turns, and mana, he will execute his plan, it seems to be
the only thing you can do is execute harder. i think the people I've lost to could have won even if they couldn't see my side of the board, because what I was doing had absolutely no bearing on 90% of their decision making
There's a ton of interaction in initiative control, trying to bait out cards from opponents or guessing hero placements.
Also there's literally removal in almost every colour???
There's priority management, so it's a little more back and forth than Hearthstone, but a lot of the decision making is in hero placement and pre-empting moves rather than actually responding, especially as the strongest cards either go infinite or immediately prevent any responses in lane
I think the singles market is pretty cool, but I am not as much a fan of the implications on the game that every card in every collection came from real money, notably the implication that keeper drafts and any event with rewards costs event tickets to play, etc.
The big issue I have is that I was playing the call to arms event thing trying out the control deck, U/B or whatever, I think it's called upkeep kills.
My opponent was playing mono red.
On the first turn every one of my heroes died, and I had no cards I could play.
That communicates an extremely brittle experience to me, and it makes me very VERY wary of putting additional money into the game, because what if situations like that end up being commonplace for the way I want to play, and I end up hating it, and all of my money is sunk?
There's priority management, so it's a little more back and forth than Hearthstone, but a lot of the decision making is in hero placement and pre-empting moves rather than actually responding, especially as the strongest cards either go infinite or immediately prevent any responses in lane
This is a big issue for me as well, but I love the L5R FFG LCG? I wish it felt more like that.
Almost all the pre-con decks are real bad for what it's worth.
Yeah and that's fair, and I am aware that playing those is most an exercise in exploring a type moreso than a good example of a viable in meta deck or whatever. But the fact that the turn was possible speaks to a brittleness in the game's state that I am not fully comfortable with.
I think the singles market is pretty cool, but I am not as much a fan of the implications on the game that every card in every collection came from real money, notably the implication that keeper drafts and any event with rewards costs event tickets to play, etc.
The big issue I have is that I was playing the call to arms event thing trying out the control deck, U/B or whatever, I think it's called upkeep kills.
My opponent was playing mono red.
On the first turn every one of my heroes died, and I had no cards I could play.
That communicates an extremely brittle experience to me, and it makes me very VERY wary of putting additional money into the game, because what if situations like that end up being commonplace for the way I want to play, and I end up hating it, and all of my money is sunk?
That's supposed to happen in that matchup, yes. The first 2-3 turns are supposed to feel very hopeless and like you're never going to win, but the U/B deck has inevitability in the matchup if you don't lose off the early aggression from mono Red.
It's just like the Red Deck Wins versus U/W matchup in Magic. First 2-3 turns, red steamrolls all over you until you get some board sweepers in there and start taking control back. It's the classic aggro vs control matchup. And yes, having all your heroes die on turn 1 is part of it. I believe that deck runs things like Cunning Plan to try and mitigate it, though.
Its not like tier decks don't have the possibility your Ashe is sitting across from Axe in the left lane T1. Unless Ashe is supposed to be a Turn hero instead of a Flop hero, I guess
Its not like tier decks don't have the possibility your Ashe is sitting across from Axe in the left lane T1. Unless Ashe is supposed to be a Turn hero instead of a Flop hero, I guess
Unless you're red you're just gonna have to accept that there are hero flops that will result in deaths for your side. Heck PA/BH hit for 10/11 each.
But there are both tools to prevent these deaths (Rebel Decoy, Compel, Clever Plan) and while the tempo loss sucks it's not immediately damning.
My current deck flops Kanna/Ogre/Treant for tanky folk. Which makes the number of characters who can one tap them lower than less tanky line ups.
There's a difference between one hero dying and all three dying though.
The fact that the cards you play are tied to your heroes actually being in lane means that such an event basically means I don't get a turn two, and having to wait until turn 3 to play cards feels worse in artifact than it does in magic, by quite a bit.
Yeah it's frustrating but inevitable to have your first 2-3 creatures burned out by RDW but those turns are also over instantly and at least you have the option of doing something. You can make the choice to play the weenie and bait out the burn or maybe wait for more mana to have enough to play a creature and also protect it in the same turn, etc. Or wait for them to tap out, or what have you.
Oh, I recognize its part of the game, and also not a crushing guarantee of a loss. But it's absolutely a feel bad moment, especially if you're in a controlley deck, because you not only lose tempo but you lose opportunities to put permanent or semi-permanent lane mechanisms in place (if that's your deck strategy)
Oh, I recognize its part of the game, and also not a crushing guarantee of a loss. But it's absolutely a feel bad moment, especially if you're in a controlley deck, because you not only lose tempo but you lose opportunities to put permanent or semi-permanent lane mechanisms in place (if that's your deck strategy)
FWIW I'd guess this is why Mists isn't played in the deck slots that Emissary occupies even though it takes way longer to come online.
Because expecting to have ownership or momentum of the game early on is a rocky strat for more control focused decks.
Also I channel my rage at being three bopped on turn 1 into the joy of watching 100+ damage ancient kills on turn 6.
How does the game determine who gets first priority in lanes? Sometimes it seems sort of random to me but maybe I'm not paying enough attention
It's super frustrating to have a hero get blown up before you get to do anything in a lane, and whoops now you can't do shit because your heroes are all dead
How does the game determine who gets first priority in lanes? Sometimes it seems sort of random to me but maybe I'm not paying enough attention
It's super frustrating to have a hero get blown up before you get to do anything in a lane, and whoops now you can't do shit because your heroes are all dead
Initiative is based on who passed first.
Basically the game is always alternating between players. If you play a card you lose initiative. If you pass and then your opponent passes then you still have it.
How does the game determine who gets first priority in lanes? Sometimes it seems sort of random to me but maybe I'm not paying enough attention
It's super frustrating to have a hero get blown up before you get to do anything in a lane, and whoops now you can't do shit because your heroes are all dead
I think there's a coin flip at the start of the game probably?
From then on you lose initiative every time you take a non pass action, and it persists from the third lane into the first lane of the next turn, etc.
After having played the game for a bit I have to say it's actually quite fun. But it's learning curve is steeper than first blush makes clear. I wasn't sold until I had played a few games and now I lie awake making up decks in my head. I will make a good deck using Rix and Meepo!
Anyway, I was reading about people's want for a ladder, but for me I think the in-built tournament system is actually really well done and using the "Advanced Tournament" option can make for some great in-house tournaments. My friends and I have been doing 8-man draft tournaments of Swiss where that determines the seeds of a following constructed elimination phase.
I think the biggest complaint is the animations taking too long artificially lengthens games a bit.
Rix/Meepo is probably not a great combo because both are item hogs in their ideal playstyle (Rix because he becomes a tank you can't get rid of, Meepo because he ups the number of item slots you have in a deck).
Is there a PA Steam Artifact group or anything? You need to be in a Steam Group to see an open tournament or to see people waiting for an open challenge. Seems like we should have such a thing and have the info in the OP.
All right, time for Spawnbroker's Funtime Drafting Spectacular! I'm gonna put the pick out there and then give my thoughts on why I picked it. After, I'll show how I build the deck. This was an expert Phantom draft. This is gonna be long, so let's jump right in.
I enjoyed this immensely, thanks for posting it!
I'm surprised I bought this game, honestly, because the business model was initially a huge turn off. I want to be able to build a card collection just from playing, even if it's really slow progression. But when they put in a free draft mode that lured me in.
I'm glad I gave the game a chance. I'm really enjoying drafting, even if it's pretty hard to learn. So thanks for the guide, it should make my drafts suck a little bit less!
First expert constructed ended 4/2 but on the plus side my market hold is gone so I shunted all the cosmetics from games I haven't played in years and finally put the capstone in my dumb tryhard deck:
Is there a PA Steam Artifact group or anything? You need to be in a Steam Group to see an open tournament or to see people waiting for an open challenge. Seems like we should have such a thing and have the info in the OP.
You can use steam chats for open play and stuff. We're running a draft tournament right now, but nothing is stopping us from doing multiple tournaments at once if anyone wants to do another.
Speaking of tournaments, our draft tournament is now up and running for those playing! Coordinate with your partner on when to play, I know some people are in weird time zones.
Been working on a summoner deck that has been consistently getting to 5 wins in the casual gauntlet. Wary to take into the competitive constructed gauntlet but I want to try. So far it has been pretty good at completely seizing 1-2 lanes once they are won.
Any ideas on how to improve on this gameplan? I go back and forth on which red hero to include, and I am mixed on trying to include Lycan or not.
Been working on a summoner deck that has been consistently getting to 5 wins in the casual gauntlet. Wary to take into the competitive constructed gauntlet but I want to try. So far it has been pretty good at completely seizing 1-2 lanes once they are won.
Any ideas on how to improve on this gameplan? I go back and forth on which red hero to include, and I am mixed on trying to include Lycan or not.
Then like, whatever fits in your economy will probably way up your consistency.
As far as cards I'm not a huge fan of Better late than never or call the reserves. Better late than never can almost certainly be replaced with selfish cleric or satyr duelist for a way better body that just loses the cross lane capability. Though at 45 cards you might just want to cut down.
For heroes:
Enchant and Treant are both super useful for your strategy but either can probably be safely replace with drow to create much the same effect.
I don't play Red but Lycan is probably fine for the goal of the deck. Even if I'd be tempted to have something beefy like Bristle in there. Axe and LC are both great but don't fit in a deck with only one red hero.
Veno and Prellux are both kinda mediocre heroes. I'd swap Veno for Luna in a heart beat. She's a better body and her signature is some control that this deck can definitely use (I'm guessing Annihlations/at any cost aren't in because they're stupidly priced right now). Prellux I do like here but I can't help but feel the deck would run better with Kanna just because 12 HP and the ability to put 2 mist's in her lane stack up to a stupid tidal wave very quickly. Ogre Magi is another option and opens up the chance for time of triumph multi casts.
Otherwise the only real complaint is that playing blue without thunderstorm/at any cost/annihilation in your deck somewhere is really missing out on that colour's strength. You could also use Aganihm's Sanctums or Satyr wizards so you can drop multiples of those really sweet 4/5 mana cards in one lane and really ramp up pressure.
Yeah the items are a mess, and I dont really make much gold with this build, 3x travellers and 3x blink seems like a good base.
Will try cutting better late then never and call the reserves, so far I have found them moderately useful as it allows me to play a summoner defensively somewhere and still have them apply pressure to the lane I am trying to win. Or alternatively buy another turn or 2 in a different lane.
Going to try a dash of blue burn I think, but to be honest I find the blue burn spells completely underwhelming both to use and play against, started with blue/red before this deck.
I actually started with Luna, but in this black meta we are in she hasn't been able to build chargers worth a damn, I actually find Venos signature spell to do great work in this deck even if he also gets picked off often. I think Veno is criminally underrated atm though, I find he gets much more work done the Prellux or Kanna.
No Drow or Kanna unfortunately, although I dont get the hype around Kanna, I have found her extremely easy to play around.
I really wish it went to three wins or something. Going 2-2 and not getting anything off my ticket run was a bummer.
Yeah Like, I know it's something other TCG card games do, but paying $1 and getting literally nothing out of it is kind of the worst. I don't think I've ever felt worse playing a video game than when I played expert, got my shit stomped in immediately, and then was out $1. There's no high in the game to justify that low.
I think five packs in draft might be too much. In other draft games you play with a bunch of suboptimal cards to try to make a deck. In this, it seems like 75% of the cards you see are useless cards entirely. You're not very often saying, "sure, in constructed a 2/3 body is garbage, but in limited it's not terrible."
Too many cards seem to be entirely, objectively terrible.
Posts
Well, more esports or draft.
Also fwiw I'm doing fine in expert queues with not quite minmaxed stuff. Don't have a 3rd annihilation or Emissary quite yet.
and more about an apparent lack of counterspells, removals, and whatnot
if your opponent has a plan, enough turns, and mana, he will execute his plan, it seems to be
the only thing you can do is execute harder. i think the people I've lost to could have won even if they couldn't see my side of the board, because what I was doing had absolutely no bearing on 90% of their decision making
There's a ton of interaction in initiative control, trying to bait out cards from opponents or guessing hero placements.
Also there's literally removal in almost every colour???
The big issue I have is that I was playing the call to arms event thing trying out the control deck, U/B or whatever, I think it's called upkeep kills.
My opponent was playing mono red.
On the first turn every one of my heroes died, and I had no cards I could play.
That communicates an extremely brittle experience to me, and it makes me very VERY wary of putting additional money into the game, because what if situations like that end up being commonplace for the way I want to play, and I end up hating it, and all of my money is sunk?
This is a big issue for me as well, but I love the L5R FFG LCG? I wish it felt more like that.
Yeah and that's fair, and I am aware that playing those is most an exercise in exploring a type moreso than a good example of a viable in meta deck or whatever. But the fact that the turn was possible speaks to a brittleness in the game's state that I am not fully comfortable with.
That's supposed to happen in that matchup, yes. The first 2-3 turns are supposed to feel very hopeless and like you're never going to win, but the U/B deck has inevitability in the matchup if you don't lose off the early aggression from mono Red.
It's just like the Red Deck Wins versus U/W matchup in Magic. First 2-3 turns, red steamrolls all over you until you get some board sweepers in there and start taking control back. It's the classic aggro vs control matchup. And yes, having all your heroes die on turn 1 is part of it. I believe that deck runs things like Cunning Plan to try and mitigate it, though.
Unless you're red you're just gonna have to accept that there are hero flops that will result in deaths for your side. Heck PA/BH hit for 10/11 each.
But there are both tools to prevent these deaths (Rebel Decoy, Compel, Clever Plan) and while the tempo loss sucks it's not immediately damning.
My current deck flops Kanna/Ogre/Treant for tanky folk. Which makes the number of characters who can one tap them lower than less tanky line ups.
The fact that the cards you play are tied to your heroes actually being in lane means that such an event basically means I don't get a turn two, and having to wait until turn 3 to play cards feels worse in artifact than it does in magic, by quite a bit.
Yeah it's frustrating but inevitable to have your first 2-3 creatures burned out by RDW but those turns are also over instantly and at least you have the option of doing something. You can make the choice to play the weenie and bait out the burn or maybe wait for more mana to have enough to play a creature and also protect it in the same turn, etc. Or wait for them to tap out, or what have you.
It just feels way worse in artifact.
FWIW I'd guess this is why Mists isn't played in the deck slots that Emissary occupies even though it takes way longer to come online.
Because expecting to have ownership or momentum of the game early on is a rocky strat for more control focused decks.
Also I channel my rage at being three bopped on turn 1 into the joy of watching 100+ damage ancient kills on turn 6.
It's super frustrating to have a hero get blown up before you get to do anything in a lane, and whoops now you can't do shit because your heroes are all dead
Initiative is based on who passed first.
Basically the game is always alternating between players. If you play a card you lose initiative. If you pass and then your opponent passes then you still have it.
I think there's a coin flip at the start of the game probably?
From then on you lose initiative every time you take a non pass action, and it persists from the third lane into the first lane of the next turn, etc.
Anyway, I was reading about people's want for a ladder, but for me I think the in-built tournament system is actually really well done and using the "Advanced Tournament" option can make for some great in-house tournaments. My friends and I have been doing 8-man draft tournaments of Swiss where that determines the seeds of a following constructed elimination phase.
I think the biggest complaint is the animations taking too long artificially lengthens games a bit.
I enjoyed this immensely, thanks for posting it!
I'm surprised I bought this game, honestly, because the business model was initially a huge turn off. I want to be able to build a card collection just from playing, even if it's really slow progression. But when they put in a free draft mode that lured me in.
I'm glad I gave the game a chance. I'm really enjoying drafting, even if it's pretty hard to learn. So thanks for the guide, it should make my drafts suck a little bit less!
Just unlimited storm
Still kinda sucks when your draw engine cards don't come online quick enough or Selemene is hiding in a corner admittedly.
There is now! Permanent steam chat link here: https://s.team/chat/bTqXiRcW
You can use steam chats for open play and stuff. We're running a draft tournament right now, but nothing is stopping us from doing multiple tournaments at once if anyone wants to do another.
Speaking of tournaments, our draft tournament is now up and running for those playing! Coordinate with your partner on when to play, I know some people are in weird time zones.
turns out time of triumph is good
opened another 5 packs got nothing good. pretty convinced i will just never get lucky with this sort of gambling.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
Any ideas on how to improve on this gameplan? I go back and forth on which red hero to include, and I am mixed on trying to include Lycan or not.
https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJfoAcbgCHAeRAzhdAr7dAYOLjqUBl0uDQRtIAUp6AZiBkyYC
The item deck is kind of all over the place:
3x travellers cloak
3x blink dagger
Then like, whatever fits in your economy will probably way up your consistency.
As far as cards I'm not a huge fan of Better late than never or call the reserves. Better late than never can almost certainly be replaced with selfish cleric or satyr duelist for a way better body that just loses the cross lane capability. Though at 45 cards you might just want to cut down.
For heroes:
Enchant and Treant are both super useful for your strategy but either can probably be safely replace with drow to create much the same effect.
I don't play Red but Lycan is probably fine for the goal of the deck. Even if I'd be tempted to have something beefy like Bristle in there. Axe and LC are both great but don't fit in a deck with only one red hero.
Veno and Prellux are both kinda mediocre heroes. I'd swap Veno for Luna in a heart beat. She's a better body and her signature is some control that this deck can definitely use (I'm guessing Annihlations/at any cost aren't in because they're stupidly priced right now). Prellux I do like here but I can't help but feel the deck would run better with Kanna just because 12 HP and the ability to put 2 mist's in her lane stack up to a stupid tidal wave very quickly. Ogre Magi is another option and opens up the chance for time of triumph multi casts.
Otherwise the only real complaint is that playing blue without thunderstorm/at any cost/annihilation in your deck somewhere is really missing out on that colour's strength. You could also use Aganihm's Sanctums or Satyr wizards so you can drop multiples of those really sweet 4/5 mana cards in one lane and really ramp up pressure.
Yeah the items are a mess, and I dont really make much gold with this build, 3x travellers and 3x blink seems like a good base.
Will try cutting better late then never and call the reserves, so far I have found them moderately useful as it allows me to play a summoner defensively somewhere and still have them apply pressure to the lane I am trying to win. Or alternatively buy another turn or 2 in a different lane.
Going to try a dash of blue burn I think, but to be honest I find the blue burn spells completely underwhelming both to use and play against, started with blue/red before this deck.
I actually started with Luna, but in this black meta we are in she hasn't been able to build chargers worth a damn, I actually find Venos signature spell to do great work in this deck even if he also gets picked off often. I think Veno is criminally underrated atm though, I find he gets much more work done the Prellux or Kanna.
No Drow or Kanna unfortunately, although I dont get the hype around Kanna, I have found her extremely easy to play around.
New version, running much smoother
I am not pretty good at Artifact draft.
2-2, 0-2, and an in process run at 2-1 so far.
I really wish it went to three wins or something. Going 2-2 and not getting anything off my ticket run was a bummer.
Yeah Like, I know it's something other TCG card games do, but paying $1 and getting literally nothing out of it is kind of the worst. I don't think I've ever felt worse playing a video game than when I played expert, got my shit stomped in immediately, and then was out $1. There's no high in the game to justify that low.
Though maybe when they add progression/cosmetics stuff they can fill in those tiers with something too.
Reddit really pointed it out to me. Keefe the Bold's 5 mana drop special card is literally just, "Be as good as Axe, minus his special card."
Too many cards seem to be entirely, objectively terrible.
I'm still not sure how I feel about the game