Compare Darkseid to SFV Bison. Bison is menacing by just folding his arms, but Darkseid looks like he's doing a no-hands kickflip compilation video.
And I agree on the SFV animation stumbles. Falke in particular doesn't put any weight behind her attacks, and it comes off as her being a real amateur. And animating an amateur can look pretty rad, like Alice the fangirl in KoF 14, or Sakura in older SFs.
I feel like they really didn't know what to do with Falke's staff, a lot of her quick moves are just her tapping you with the tip of it, but with no windup or follow through to make it seem like they have weight
I think you're right, but it's baffling. There are so many staff characters they could have taken inspiration from. Billy Kane, Kilik, Litchi, Venom, and (not that I want to endorse him but) they already made Rolento.
i think Alpha Rolento works pretty well, but SFIV Rolento has a few of those issues as well, where some of his pokes just don't look like they'd do anything
like they're trying to mirror his SF Alpha moveset, but some of those 2D moves don't work with 3D models that have frame interpolation
things look a lot better when they're able to have a few more frames to actually swing the stick around with some force
I just realized that her fighting style centers around charging staff with psycho energy. She's just Gambit without the cards, and Capcom already made Gambit!
KnobTURN THE BEAT BACKInternetModeratorMod Emeritus
edited December 2018
It's a tricky one, especially about things you're passionate about. I'm not saying that you shouldn't bring up negative opinions of things, absolutely not. But, it would warm the cockles of my dead black heart if our personal interactions with each other are positive, even about things we feel negatively about. Its been a minute since we had an MK game, people are gonna be excited, we might even wind up with some new regulars to play with. I know that NRS guys are a super minority in this thread, but we don't gotta hostile them out with a page of 'ew yuck' in response to something cats might be hype about.
I'm really excited about MK XI and I think I actually have an idea of how the Variants from MKX are going to play into this one
Trailer spoilers, in case you haven't watched it yet:
In the trailer we see some pretty heavy indication of some Time Travel: Two versions of Scorpion, and also at the end a woman who looks like she's from Order Realm standing next to a giant Hourglass
Sooooo I think the 3 Variants from each character are actually going to be the character from 3 different time periods, which sounds REALLY fun and exciting
A reason for you to have Ninja, half Ninja, and Lizard Reptile, each playing differently!
I'm really excited about MK XI and I think I actually have an idea of how the Variants from MKX are going to play into this one
Trailer spoilers, in case you haven't watched it yet:
In the trailer we see some pretty heavy indication of some Time Travel: Two versions of Scorpion, and also at the end a woman who looks like she's from Order Realm standing next to a giant Hourglass
Sooooo I think the 3 Variants from each character are actually going to be the character from 3 different time periods, which sounds REALLY fun and exciting
A reason for you to have Ninja, half Ninja, and Lizard Reptile, each playing differently!
I'm really excited about MK XI and I think I actually have an idea of how the Variants from MKX are going to play into this one
Trailer spoilers, in case you haven't watched it yet:
In the trailer we see some pretty heavy indication of some Time Travel: Two versions of Scorpion, and also at the end a woman who looks like she's from Order Realm standing next to a giant Hourglass
Sooooo I think the 3 Variants from each character are actually going to be the character from 3 different time periods, which sounds REALLY fun and exciting
A reason for you to have Ninja, half Ninja, and Lizard Reptile, each playing differently!
Oddly enough, for this one I'm hoping we do get just a thousand ninjas.
How many different versions of Scorpion and Sub-Zero have there been? I want Maskless, Scarred, life vest Sub-Zero fighting lame latex-wearing MK1 Sub-Zero fighting Frost.
I'm really excited about MK XI and I think I actually have an idea of how the Variants from MKX are going to play into this one
Trailer spoilers, in case you haven't watched it yet:
In the trailer we see some pretty heavy indication of some Time Travel: Two versions of Scorpion, and also at the end a woman who looks like she's from Order Realm standing next to a giant Hourglass
Sooooo I think the 3 Variants from each character are actually going to be the character from 3 different time periods, which sounds REALLY fun and exciting
A reason for you to have Ninja, half Ninja, and Lizard Reptile, each playing differently!
Oddly enough, for this one I'm hoping we do get just a thousand ninjas.
How many different versions of Scorpion and Sub-Zero have there been? I want Maskless, Scarred, life vest Sub-Zero fighting lame latex-wearing MK1 Sub-Zero fighting Frost.
There are actually like, ABOUT 3 for each
Sub Zero: classic, Maskless (grizzled and young could maybe be swaps) and Grandmaster where he looks like shredder from ninja turtles
Scorpion: Classic, Hanzo, Wraith/Undead
It would also be fun to see them come up with some alternate timeline/older versions of the new characters that don't have as much history, like D'Vorah or Cassie Cage
KnobTURN THE BEAT BACKInternetModeratorMod Emeritus
I played a lot of Marduk at the weekly last night, but I also wound up playing a shitload of Law because it occurred to me that I haven't spent time on a character with a complete set of the generic tools in a really long time. It felt reallt nice to just Play Normal Tekken.
My real problem with the more recent MK games is that they are just TOO grotesque for me!
I don't really enjoy pulling otherwise beloved characters through sawblades as they scream in terror ultimately ending with them dead and mutilated in wonderfully detailed fashion!
But this means that the most suitable DLC guest characters I can imagine for these games are reboot Lara Croft along with Leon Kennedy from RE4, because both of them are no strangers to incredibly grisly deaths that they suffer painfully in.
My real problem with the more recent MK games is that they are just TOO grotesque for me!
I don't really enjoy pulling otherwise beloved characters through sawblades as they scream in terror ultimately ending with them dead and mutilated in wonderfully detailed fashion!
But this means that the most suitable DLC guest characters I can imagine for these games are reboot Lara Croft along with Leon Kennedy from RE4, because both of them are no strangers to incredibly grisly deaths that they suffer painfully in.
MK's gore is tongue in cheek but it is absolutely EXTREMELY over the top and I'd never blame anyone for not being able to take it as a joke.
Johnny Cage decapitating his daughter with an uppercut, and then ripping his wife's torso apart to deliver his catch phrase
Yeah the introduction of family members added a weird layer I'm not hyper comfortable with
I'll get real with you, I fucking love MK, I have a sub zero tattoo, and I'd actually be completely okay with Fatalities coming out
They're fun, but I don't do them once I'm actually playing the game, they just take up too much time and aren't really exciting past the first couple views
Johnny Cage decapitating his daughter with an uppercut, and then ripping his wife's torso apart to deliver his catch phrase
Yeah the introduction of family members added a weird layer I'm not hyper comfortable with
I'll get real with you, I fucking love MK, I have a sub zero tattoo, and I'd actually be completely okay with Fatalities coming out
They're fun, but I don't do them once I'm actually playing the game, they just take up too much time and aren't really exciting past the first couple views
fatalities are weird, since they're one of the things most people think of in association with MK
but they don't really serve a gameplay function at all, and they kinda get in the way of the story of this now heavily narrative game
and they'd probably lose a lot in sales and make some fans angry if they took them out or toned them down
Fatalities are one of the distinctive appeals of the game, no doubt. Sure, once you've had the game beyond the first month, they're probably boring and tired, but I won't lie that I don't get a small sense of hype when they reveal a new character just so I can see what those look like.
Putting in Brutalities the way they did in MKX were a stroke of genius. Most of them just required that you do a command move as a finishing blow and it was an auto-fatality. They used to be 10+ button input strings that you had to memorize at the Fatality phase which exploded the character into blood and multiple body parts and rib cages.
I've been playing a lot of Leo and Feng lately. Leo is really, really good but also super boring visually. All of her good moves either look like generic tekken placeholder moves but with insane frames or have weirdly little visual impact for how good they are. I like how straightforward her gameplan is though, and characters with good lows and a braindead wall game are always nice. The fc df+3 buff for season two is kinda nutty as well; her fc game is scary as hell now.
Feng though, Feng might finally be the character for me. He has everything I look for in a fighting game character: basic gameplan, good buttons, super easy to use. I enjoy that his launchers are kinda bad so you're forced to just play a solid poking game with him, plus he has some good panic buttons in uf+2 and b+1. I also cannot overstate how easy this character is compared to practically every other character I've tried in this game. Not just the combos (though Feng combos are easy as hell), but no real complicated inputs (snake dashing both feels easier than wave dashing for me and isn't as necessary for Feng's game like the wavedash is for Mishimas) plus really good pokes and lows makes for a much more stress free Tekken experience than I'm used to. Also ss+4 is hilariously cheap if they can't block it; though I can already tell that going for that move too much is gonna get me killed.
ph blake on
+3
KnobTURN THE BEAT BACKInternetModeratorMod Emeritus
Also a big tick in the pro column: One time Feng fought a mountain and won.
KnobTURN THE BEAT BACKInternetModeratorMod Emeritus
His fatality could involve running the opponent through with a sword, pulling out their nails with a pair of plier, smashing them in the temple with a sledgehammer, loading them into a helicopter, and then shooting it with a pistol causing it to explode. And then his victory animation is him visiting the opponent in the hospital as they convalesce.
His fatality could involve running the opponent through with a sword, pulling out their nails with a pair of plier, smashing them in the temple with a sledgehammer, loading them into a helicopter, and then shooting it with a pistol causing it to explode. And then his victory animation is him visiting the opponent in the hospital as they convalesce.
The original ones were quick, probably due to the technical limits of the arcade/consoles. Now they go on and on. And it’s like... he already dead. It’s ok. You can let him go now.
Even in that trailer, it would have been enough to just do the fiery pass-through. You don’t need to keep going.
And going with what el fantastic I said:
I had forgotten all about Brutalities. That’s what I want. Just a quick thing to solidly end the match.
KnobTURN THE BEAT BACKInternetModeratorMod Emeritus
An old poverty game I still play occasionally called WeaponLord had my favorite fatality system. If you won the game with a combo ending in a specific special, you'd decapitate your opponent or disembowel them or things like that. But you could chain them together for custom fatalities. Like, you could disembowel your opponent, then behead them, then split their head in half as it falls. They were hard to do, customizable, only performable in a specific circumstance like brutalities, and didn't add much filler time to the end of the match. Personal expression + being difficult to set up makes them amazing. If you get fatalitied in WeaponLord, you feel it in your soul.
I've been playing a lot of Leo and Feng lately. Leo is really, really good but also super boring visually. All of her good moves either look like generic tekken placeholder moves but with insane frames or have weirdly little visual impact for how good they are. I like how straightforward her gameplan is though, and characters with good lows and a braindead wall game are always nice. The fc df+3 buff for season two is kinda nutty as well; her fc game is scary as hell now.
Feng though, Feng might finally be the character for me. He has everything I look for in a fighting game character: basic gameplan, good buttons, super easy to use. I enjoy that his launchers are kinda bad so you're forced to just play a solid poking game with him, plus he has some good panic buttons in uf+2 and b+1. I also cannot overstate how easy this character is compared to practically every other character I've tried in this game. Not just the combos (though Feng combos are easy as hell), but no real complicated inputs (snake dashing both feels easier than wave dashing for me and isn't as necessary for Feng's game like the wavedash is for Mishimas) plus really good pokes and lows makes for a much more stress free Tekken experience than I'm used to. Also ss+4 is hilariously cheap if they can't block it; though I can already tell that going for that move too much is gonna get me killed.
I think some of her moves look pretty great, either when she's doing them or when they hit. Like her shoulder ram, that b,f+1+2,1+2,1+2 thing, her throw that can wallsplat... but yeah, sometimes she seems like a really good collection of moves that are kung-fu themed, but somehow lacking in the panache of Xiaoyu or Feng. And that's weird, because she's so heavily bajiquan themed, and bajiquan is a super cool and distinctive martial art!
The way Feng moves is just REALLY COOL and I really wish he had more of his formal wear customization options from the previous games. He's got a zillion good pokes as you say, lots of good lows, and he also has one of the best wall rebound moves in the whole damn game (d/f+2,2) which is a 15F mid that is totally safe on block and the second hit of it cannot be interrupted in any meaningful way by anybody in the game. Having both a Snake Edge move in d/b+4 and ss+4 means he can also fraud out all kinds of wins at lower levels of play, and I absolutely have taken advantage of that more than I should have in my time with him....
One of the things about Feng that is really good is that he can really do any gameplan. You can choose to just get in your opponent's face and press buttons at point blank range, you can choose to try to provoke whiffs and punish them, you can choose to try to play for CHs, you can play a straightforward linear game or you can play a sidestep/weird-angle heavy game, you can press big slow buttons for big damage or just press quick buttons and try to harass your opponent down.... there's really no gameplan he can't do, and his array of evasive moves is a strength he can invoke more freely in infinite arenas just as his strong wallbounce move and rage drive are strengths he can use when there are walls. And yet in spite of all that, he is undoubtedly "Feng", and not just a mishmash of moves that cover everything.
l_g on
Cole's Law: "Thinly sliced cabbage."
0
KnobTURN THE BEAT BACKInternetModeratorMod Emeritus
An old poverty game I still play occasionally called WeaponLord had my favorite fatality system. If you won the game with a combo ending in a specific special, you'd decapitate your opponent or disembowel them or things like that. But you could chain them together for custom fatalities. Like, you could disembowel your opponent, then behead them, then split their head in half as it falls. They were hard to do, customizable, only performable in a specific circumstance like brutalities, and didn't add much filler time to the end of the match. Personal expression + being difficult to set up makes them amazing. If you get fatalitied in WeaponLord, you feel it in your soul.
Weaponlord was great. It also had an interesting input system: instead of doing a quarter circle then pressing X, you held x, did a quarter circle, then released.
I am interested in the lore of this angry man fighting various natural phenomenon.
Like I imagine Feng taking a nice long walk on the beach, as one does, then a hurricane appears out of nowhere and he gets so pissed off that he shoulder checks it back into the sea.
+1
KnobTURN THE BEAT BACKInternetModeratorMod Emeritus
I am interested in the lore of this angry man fighting various natural phenomenon.
Like I imagine Feng taking a nice long walk on the beach, as one does, then a hurricane appears out of nowhere and he gets so pissed off that he shoulder checks it back into the sea.
Well, in Tekken 5 Feng beats up Jinpachi and then punches a mountain so hard that it explodes
And in Tekken 6 Feng beats up Azrael and then fights a volcano
Honestly I probably do fatalities once just to see what they look like then never bother with them again.
They just slow the matches down.
I really like KI's take on Ultras. They still serve their gameplay purpose of killing an opponent in the danger zone, but you can add an extra input to cancel directly into the final hit and end it instantly.
An old poverty game I still play occasionally called WeaponLord had my favorite fatality system. If you won the game with a combo ending in a specific special, you'd decapitate your opponent or disembowel them or things like that. But you could chain them together for custom fatalities. Like, you could disembowel your opponent, then behead them, then split their head in half as it falls. They were hard to do, customizable, only performable in a specific circumstance like brutalities, and didn't add much filler time to the end of the match. Personal expression + being difficult to set up makes them amazing. If you get fatalitied in WeaponLord, you feel it in your soul.
Weaponlord was great. It also had an interesting input system: instead of doing a quarter circle then pressing X, you held x, did a quarter circle, then released.
That was the Primal Rage method, right?
I loved Weapon Lord! It was the first game I ever played with a parry and probably led directly to my love affair with Soul Calibur.
I hold it up in my Pantheon of underrated fighters I love anyway, like Fighters Destiny, Mace, and Bleach DS
KnobTURN THE BEAT BACKInternetModeratorMod Emeritus
Fun fact: WeaponLord was created by 2 guys who worked on Super Turbo. One of them was on the team who did the new Killer Instinct. They wanted to make a game just for hardcore fans of fighters. It was published by Namco. Shortly after release, Namco knifed the franchise and released Soul Edge. Rock has a costume in SCIII that is Bane's outfit from WeaponLord.
Dear Namco Bandai or whoever owns the rights, please do WeaponLord 2
Fun fact: WeaponLord was created by 2 guys who worked on Super Turbo. One of them was on the team who did the new Killer Instinct. They wanted to make a game just for hardcore fans of fighters. It was published by Namco. Shortly after release, Namco knifed the franchise and released Soul Edge. Rock has a costume in SCIII that is Bane's outfit from WeaponLord.
Dear Namco Bandai or whoever owns the rights, please do WeaponLord 2
Posts
I just realized that her fighting style centers around charging staff with psycho energy. She's just Gambit without the cards, and Capcom already made Gambit!
Trailer spoilers, in case you haven't watched it yet:
Sooooo I think the 3 Variants from each character are actually going to be the character from 3 different time periods, which sounds REALLY fun and exciting
A reason for you to have Ninja, half Ninja, and Lizard Reptile, each playing differently!
That would be cool as hell, honestly
Oddly enough, for this one I'm hoping we do get just a thousand ninjas.
How many different versions of Scorpion and Sub-Zero have there been? I want Maskless, Scarred, life vest Sub-Zero fighting lame latex-wearing MK1 Sub-Zero fighting Frost.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
There are actually like, ABOUT 3 for each
Sub Zero: classic, Maskless (grizzled and young could maybe be swaps) and Grandmaster where he looks like shredder from ninja turtles
Scorpion: Classic, Hanzo, Wraith/Undead
and then MK 9-11 are one continuity
are 4-8 all part of the same timeline? I feel like that's where MK fell off the radar for me
Yeah, I'd just make his Wraith/Netherrealm one the skull
Maybe have it catch on fire for certain things
1-8 are actually the same continuity
Then it gets reset in 9
That'll give the NRS animators something to sink their teeth into! ;D
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
I don't really enjoy pulling otherwise beloved characters through sawblades as they scream in terror ultimately ending with them dead and mutilated in wonderfully detailed fashion!
But this means that the most suitable DLC guest characters I can imagine for these games are reboot Lara Croft along with Leon Kennedy from RE4, because both of them are no strangers to incredibly grisly deaths that they suffer painfully in.
MK's gore is tongue in cheek but it is absolutely EXTREMELY over the top and I'd never blame anyone for not being able to take it as a joke.
Johnny Cage decapitating his daughter with an uppercut, and then ripping his wife's torso apart to deliver his catch phrase
Yeah the introduction of family members added a weird layer I'm not hyper comfortable with
I'll get real with you, I fucking love MK, I have a sub zero tattoo, and I'd actually be completely okay with Fatalities coming out
They're fun, but I don't do them once I'm actually playing the game, they just take up too much time and aren't really exciting past the first couple views
They just slow the matches down.
fatalities are weird, since they're one of the things most people think of in association with MK
but they don't really serve a gameplay function at all, and they kinda get in the way of the story of this now heavily narrative game
and they'd probably lose a lot in sales and make some fans angry if they took them out or toned them down
Putting in Brutalities the way they did in MKX were a stroke of genius. Most of them just required that you do a command move as a finishing blow and it was an auto-fatality. They used to be 10+ button input strings that you had to memorize at the Fatality phase which exploded the character into blood and multiple body parts and rib cages.
Steam: TheArcadeBear
Feng though, Feng might finally be the character for me. He has everything I look for in a fighting game character: basic gameplan, good buttons, super easy to use. I enjoy that his launchers are kinda bad so you're forced to just play a solid poking game with him, plus he has some good panic buttons in uf+2 and b+1. I also cannot overstate how easy this character is compared to practically every other character I've tried in this game. Not just the combos (though Feng combos are easy as hell), but no real complicated inputs (snake dashing both feels easier than wave dashing for me and isn't as necessary for Feng's game like the wavedash is for Mishimas) plus really good pokes and lows makes for a much more stress free Tekken experience than I'm used to. Also ss+4 is hilariously cheap if they can't block it; though I can already tell that going for that move too much is gonna get me killed.
different time periods of the fighters would make sense as a new way to do the 3 styles thing that seemed to work last time
whats the dumb gimmick for guest characters though, we already exhausted the horror movie all stars
We've got precedent for movie characters, crossover game characters, and tv chars, so
MK11 Guest Characters:
Ash Williams. Ripley. Akuma. Jon Snow. Banjo Kazooie. Lt Commander Worf.
Time Travellers.
Marty McFly
Timecop
Kyle Reese
Rufus (with assists from Bill and Ted)
never ever
You forgot the salted orange
The original ones were quick, probably due to the technical limits of the arcade/consoles. Now they go on and on. And it’s like... he already dead. It’s ok. You can let him go now.
Even in that trailer, it would have been enough to just do the fiery pass-through. You don’t need to keep going.
And going with what el fantastic I said:
I had forgotten all about Brutalities. That’s what I want. Just a quick thing to solidly end the match.
I think some of her moves look pretty great, either when she's doing them or when they hit. Like her shoulder ram, that b,f+1+2,1+2,1+2 thing, her throw that can wallsplat... but yeah, sometimes she seems like a really good collection of moves that are kung-fu themed, but somehow lacking in the panache of Xiaoyu or Feng. And that's weird, because she's so heavily bajiquan themed, and bajiquan is a super cool and distinctive martial art!
The way Feng moves is just REALLY COOL and I really wish he had more of his formal wear customization options from the previous games. He's got a zillion good pokes as you say, lots of good lows, and he also has one of the best wall rebound moves in the whole damn game (d/f+2,2) which is a 15F mid that is totally safe on block and the second hit of it cannot be interrupted in any meaningful way by anybody in the game. Having both a Snake Edge move in d/b+4 and ss+4 means he can also fraud out all kinds of wins at lower levels of play, and I absolutely have taken advantage of that more than I should have in my time with him....
One of the things about Feng that is really good is that he can really do any gameplan. You can choose to just get in your opponent's face and press buttons at point blank range, you can choose to try to provoke whiffs and punish them, you can choose to try to play for CHs, you can play a straightforward linear game or you can play a sidestep/weird-angle heavy game, you can press big slow buttons for big damage or just press quick buttons and try to harass your opponent down.... there's really no gameplan he can't do, and his array of evasive moves is a strength he can invoke more freely in infinite arenas just as his strong wallbounce move and rage drive are strengths he can use when there are walls. And yet in spite of all that, he is undoubtedly "Feng", and not just a mishmash of moves that cover everything.
Weaponlord was great. It also had an interesting input system: instead of doing a quarter circle then pressing X, you held x, did a quarter circle, then released.
Like I imagine Feng taking a nice long walk on the beach, as one does, then a hurricane appears out of nowhere and he gets so pissed off that he shoulder checks it back into the sea.
Well, in Tekken 5 Feng beats up Jinpachi and then punches a mountain so hard that it explodes
And in Tekken 6 Feng beats up Azrael and then fights a volcano
And now you have just as much lore as we do
I really like KI's take on Ultras. They still serve their gameplay purpose of killing an opponent in the danger zone, but you can add an extra input to cancel directly into the final hit and end it instantly.
That was the Primal Rage method, right?
I loved Weapon Lord! It was the first game I ever played with a parry and probably led directly to my love affair with Soul Calibur.
I hold it up in my Pantheon of underrated fighters I love anyway, like Fighters Destiny, Mace, and Bleach DS
Dear Namco Bandai or whoever owns the rights, please do WeaponLord 2
SC6 Zarak DLC?