I know the answer to this is just Git Gud, but as a very, very casual smash player I constantly marvel at how the game that prides itself on accessibility and no complicated motions for specials and such has such a wild basic execution barrier. I spend most rounds in constant amazement at all the things my guy is doing that I did not want him to do.
you can make it so that your c-stick (or right analog if you arent on a gamecube pad) is tilts only but what myself and a lot of other people want are to disable smashes on the left analog and only use them with the right
given that this is the first well accepted Smash to come out on a console not called the Wii U since melee, I think this could really turn some heads
its pretty fun so far and I could see myself entering a smash tournament in this game
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
There's a lot to be desired about the control options for Smash.
Besides those already listed, I don't know why Nintendo refuses to let you use the frigging D-pad for movement. =_=
arguably the taunt buttons are the most important ones on your controller
+8
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
There are more than enough buttons I could easily put them on a shoulder. :P
Unrelated, I guess I'm suffering a pretty shitty bug in SFV with the latest patch. Seems my game is stuck in an infinite "needs to restart" loop. Womp womp ...
Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
edited December 2018
Man this stuff coming out about the Tekken World Tour is a fucking bummer. Those guys deserve better. Not that I'm saying the scene is dead or anything, it just SUCKS that they work their asses off and first place was literally $7500, barely enough to cover his travel costs to all the TWT tournaments (especially when TWT requires so much travel/commitment.) Bunch of pros (JDCR, Saint, Qudans, some of the TOP NAMES) being unsure if they can compete next year...it fucking sucks.
Say what you like about Capcom's money grabs but at least they're trying to find a way to monetize the notoriously ~poverty~ FGC and putting the money back into the scene. Having said that, the new ad stuff looks BADDDDDDDDDD but hey, turn it off.
Michael Murray personally coming at one of the game's most vocal supporters because he had the audacity tweet a reddit thread about the lackluster TWT support has me absolutely furious today.
Man this stuff coming out about the Tekken World Tour is a fucking bummer. Those guys deserve better. Not that I'm saying the scene is dead or anything, it just SUCKS that they work their asses off and first place was literally $7500, barely enough to cover his travel costs to all the TWT tournaments (especially when TWT requires so much travel/commitment.) Bunch of pros (JDCR, Saint, Qudans, some of the TOP NAMES) being unsure if they can compete next year...it fucking sucks.
Say what you like about Capcom's money grabs but at least they're trying to find a way to monetize the notoriously ~poverty~ FGC and putting the money back into the scene. Having said that, the new ad stuff looks BADDDDDDDDDD but hey, turn it off.
the ad stuff is dumb and less fight money for turning them off is also dumb
Daebunz on
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Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
Man this stuff coming out about the Tekken World Tour is a fucking bummer. Those guys deserve better. Not that I'm saying the scene is dead or anything, it just SUCKS that they work their asses off and first place was literally $7500, barely enough to cover his travel costs to all the TWT tournaments (especially when TWT requires so much travel/commitment.) Bunch of pros (JDCR, Saint, Qudans, some of the TOP NAMES) being unsure if they can compete next year...it fucking sucks.
Say what you like about Capcom's money grabs but at least they're trying to find a way to monetize the notoriously ~poverty~ FGC and putting the money back into the scene. Having said that, the new ad stuff looks BADDDDDDDDDD but hey, turn it off.
the ad stuff is dumb and less fight money for turning them off is also dumb
They haven't adjusted FM costs/rewards down so it's more like you get more for turning it on, but yeah, that whole system is EHHHHHHHH. It's a dumb gross thing, but the game is still the game
What are the preferred terms for moves and movesets in fighting games? We usually say "moves", but that's ambiguous with "movement" in the general sense. Like in a turn-based game you have "Standard Action" and "Move Action".
Are there other standards I'm missing? Any better suggestions?
I mean we usually say moves and movelist.
I'm looking for a synonym that a new player won't confuse for "move" as in a movement option.
What are the preferred terms for moves and movesets in fighting games? We usually say "moves", but that's ambiguous with "movement" in the general sense. Like in a turn-based game you have "Standard Action" and "Move Action".
Are there other standards I'm missing? Any better suggestions?
Maybe I'm having a brain fart, but in thinking about regular conversation I swear I don't hear anyone say "moves". "Attacks" and "Specials" rings much clearer in my head. But maybe I'm fundamentally missing the thing you're actually referring to here?
You're on the right track, but I'm trying to name the super-category that contains both "attacks" and "specials".
I'm at the point in game dev where I'm trying to make hitbox data, and I want to get my terminology straight so I can write up a tutorial to explain it.
I know the answer to this is just Git Gud, but as a very, very casual smash player I constantly marvel at how the game that prides itself on accessibility and no complicated motions for specials and such has such a wild basic execution barrier. I spend most rounds in constant amazement at all the things my guy is doing that I did not want him to do.
Do you mean the netcode, or the execution? There are some really good things you can do with remapping the controller that help a bunch, mainly:
1. Take jump off of "Up" on the control stick. This makes it a lot easier to do up attacks, at the cost of relearning jumping. BUT, this is good, because:
2. Hitting X (jump) and A at the same time does a quick-hop-into-air-attack. If you push a direction you can get any of the air attacks at ground level this way.
3. Switch right stick to be tilt attacks instead of smash attacks. Tilt attacks are faster than smash attacks so getting them out faster reliably is a big plus.
4. Depending on which controller you use, you're probably not using Y much, so consider mapping it to grab or shield.
You gave me a really solid fighting game tip a while ago that if you're trying to win by tricking your opponent, you need to change your approach. I still think about that every time I play competitive games now. I'd say another lesson that is really big in Smash is that you can't get married to what you try to do. Like I know it's a thing in fighting games anyway, i.e. I messed up this dragon punch so now I'm gonna fish for one until it lands, but in Smash there are sooooo many whiffs/bad inputs it can be really easy to get stuck on a tactic.
If it's the netcode, man, I just really wish that there was some way to say "If inputs are lagging, act like I'm shielding, okay?"
I don't have a switch and haven't played ultimate. I play a lot of smash 4 with my kids. I don't play long enough, frequently enough, or with a single character enough to really learn anything worth learning. I do however have a monster problem with trying to maintain spacing or whatever and accidentally dashing through someone or attacking the wrong way. I have 30 years of playing fight games with binary movement. You're either pushing a direction or you aren't. Retraining my left hand to recognize and execute inbetweens on an analog is challenging for an old dog.
I don't have a switch and haven't played ultimate. I play a lot of smash 4 with my kids. I don't play long enough, frequently enough, or with a single character enough to really learn anything worth learning. I do however have a monster problem with trying to maintain spacing or whatever and accidentally dashing through someone or attacking the wrong way. I have 30 years of playing fight games with binary movement. You're either pushing a direction or you aren't. Retraining my left hand to recognize and execute inbetweens on an analog is challenging for an old dog.
This is exactly me. I feel like a drunk newborn stumbling through a fight.
What are the preferred terms for moves and movesets in fighting games? We usually say "moves", but that's ambiguous with "movement" in the general sense. Like in a turn-based game you have "Standard Action" and "Move Action".
Are there other standards I'm missing? Any better suggestions?
I mean we usually say moves and movelist.
I'm looking for a synonym that a new player won't confuse for "move" as in a movement option.
What are the preferred terms for moves and movesets in fighting games? We usually say "moves", but that's ambiguous with "movement" in the general sense. Like in a turn-based game you have "Standard Action" and "Move Action".
Are there other standards I'm missing? Any better suggestions?
Maybe I'm having a brain fart, but in thinking about regular conversation I swear I don't hear anyone say "moves". "Attacks" and "Specials" rings much clearer in my head. But maybe I'm fundamentally missing the thing you're actually referring to here?
You're on the right track, but I'm trying to name the super-category that contains both "attacks" and "specials".
I'm at the point in game dev where I'm trying to make hitbox data, and I want to get my terminology straight so I can write up a tutorial to explain it.
I don't have a switch and haven't played ultimate. I play a lot of smash 4 with my kids. I don't play long enough, frequently enough, or with a single character enough to really learn anything worth learning. I do however have a monster problem with trying to maintain spacing or whatever and accidentally dashing through someone or attacking the wrong way. I have 30 years of playing fight games with binary movement. You're either pushing a direction or you aren't. Retraining my left hand to recognize and execute inbetweens on an analog is challenging for an old dog.
This is exactly me. I feel like a drunk newborn stumbling through a fight.
I'm basically competent at smash I think and it still feels that way most of the time tbh
What are the preferred terms for moves and movesets in fighting games? We usually say "moves", but that's ambiguous with "movement" in the general sense. Like in a turn-based game you have "Standard Action" and "Move Action".
Are there other standards I'm missing? Any better suggestions?
I mean we usually say moves and movelist.
I'm looking for a synonym that a new player won't confuse for "move" as in a movement option.
What are the preferred terms for moves and movesets in fighting games? We usually say "moves", but that's ambiguous with "movement" in the general sense. Like in a turn-based game you have "Standard Action" and "Move Action".
Are there other standards I'm missing? Any better suggestions?
Maybe I'm having a brain fart, but in thinking about regular conversation I swear I don't hear anyone say "moves". "Attacks" and "Specials" rings much clearer in my head. But maybe I'm fundamentally missing the thing you're actually referring to here?
You're on the right track, but I'm trying to name the super-category that contains both "attacks" and "specials".
I'm at the point in game dev where I'm trying to make hitbox data, and I want to get my terminology straight so I can write up a tutorial to explain it.
What are the preferred terms for moves and movesets in fighting games? We usually say "moves", but that's ambiguous with "movement" in the general sense. Like in a turn-based game you have "Standard Action" and "Move Action".
Are there other standards I'm missing? Any better suggestions?
Maybe I'm having a brain fart, but in thinking about regular conversation I swear I don't hear anyone say "moves". "Attacks" and "Specials" rings much clearer in my head. But maybe I'm fundamentally missing the thing you're actually referring to here?
You're on the right track, but I'm trying to name the super-category that contains both "attacks" and "specials".
I'm at the point in game dev where I'm trying to make hitbox data, and I want to get my terminology straight so I can write up a tutorial to explain it.
Ah. See, in that context I think it's maybe trying to be too high level to put them under a new umbrella term. Unless you're being very literal with counters or parries and don't want to label them as attacks, it's pretty fair to say that a character has many attacks, and of those some attacks are specials ("all specials are attacks, not all attacks are specials" kinda thing). Then you go one layer deeper if you have a meter system and use a term that sounds nicer (if NRS can get away with meter burn, I'm sure you can make these layers of terminology a bit nicer to remember).
THAT SAID, it might be too high level as well, but you could potentially lump it under "offense" as one of three main states alongside "neutral" and "defense". I don't know that I love this exactly, but it might be a different stating point for your train of thought.
Not that it's specifically this naming problem, but if you haven't, take a peek at how Blade Stangers labeled the buttons in the game. It's a phenomenal example of why breaking conventions can be a real pain in the butt and makes learning the game more difficult than it needs to be.
What are the preferred terms for moves and movesets in fighting games? We usually say "moves", but that's ambiguous with "movement" in the general sense. Like in a turn-based game you have "Standard Action" and "Move Action".
Are there other standards I'm missing? Any better suggestions?
I mean we usually say moves and movelist.
I'm looking for a synonym that a new player won't confuse for "move" as in a movement option.
What are the preferred terms for moves and movesets in fighting games? We usually say "moves", but that's ambiguous with "movement" in the general sense. Like in a turn-based game you have "Standard Action" and "Move Action".
Are there other standards I'm missing? Any better suggestions?
Maybe I'm having a brain fart, but in thinking about regular conversation I swear I don't hear anyone say "moves". "Attacks" and "Specials" rings much clearer in my head. But maybe I'm fundamentally missing the thing you're actually referring to here?
You're on the right track, but I'm trying to name the super-category that contains both "attacks" and "specials".
I'm at the point in game dev where I'm trying to make hitbox data, and I want to get my terminology straight so I can write up a tutorial to explain it.
Who's the tutorial for? Other devs, or users/players?
Given that I only understand smash at an extremely rudimentary level, is there any reason that tilts and smashes couldn't just be two different buttons?
There is no good reason. Rivals of Aether gives the option to put smashes and tilts on 2 different buttons and it works great.
Given that I only understand smash at an extremely rudimentary level, is there any reason that tilts and smashes couldn't just be two different buttons?
There is no good reason. Rivals of Aether gives the option to put smashes and tilts on 2 different buttons and it works great.
Rivals is so good! It's made on a budget of whatever fell into Smash's couch, but it just feels so much smoother to me.
Given that I only understand smash at an extremely rudimentary level, is there any reason that tilts and smashes couldn't just be two different buttons?
There is no good reason. Rivals of Aether gives the option to put smashes and tilts on 2 different buttons and it works great.
Rivals is so good! It's made on a budget of whatever fell into Smash's couch, but it just feels so much smoother to me.
And you can buy it for about what you find in your couch too! Also, the characters and their mechanics are often really fun to watch. Who doesn't love a bear that makes ice all over the place and builds his own armor out of it? Such a fun side-tourney game to watch~
What are the preferred terms for moves and movesets in fighting games? We usually say "moves", but that's ambiguous with "movement" in the general sense. Like in a turn-based game you have "Standard Action" and "Move Action".
Are there other standards I'm missing? Any better suggestions?
I mean we usually say moves and movelist.
I'm looking for a synonym that a new player won't confuse for "move" as in a movement option.
What are the preferred terms for moves and movesets in fighting games? We usually say "moves", but that's ambiguous with "movement" in the general sense. Like in a turn-based game you have "Standard Action" and "Move Action".
Are there other standards I'm missing? Any better suggestions?
Maybe I'm having a brain fart, but in thinking about regular conversation I swear I don't hear anyone say "moves". "Attacks" and "Specials" rings much clearer in my head. But maybe I'm fundamentally missing the thing you're actually referring to here?
You're on the right track, but I'm trying to name the super-category that contains both "attacks" and "specials".
I'm at the point in game dev where I'm trying to make hitbox data, and I want to get my terminology straight so I can write up a tutorial to explain it.
Who's the tutorial for? Other devs, or users/players?
A little of both. I'm writing the tutorial for new players who have never seen a fighting game before, but I need to get the terminology straight when I name things in code too.
If, say, a friend works on it with me who isn't familiar with fighting games, I want the game glossary and class names to be as 1:1 as possible
Ah, in my pet game engine move is the correct term (for programmer side documentation anyway) because movement is the same thing as an attack aside from not having a hitbox and walking could just have a hitbox if I wanted. Walking forward is just a looping animation that plays off the 6 input and cancels into other movement "moves", including neutral. So confusing the two is fine because they're actually the same. If you're using it for player facing documentation (or if movement is it's own independent system code-wise) that doesn't work so well though.
Maybe "technique" or "ability" or something? If it matches up with your code "animation" might work but that's maybe less helpful for a player than a programmer, and might not be a good label depending on implementation.
Ah, in my pet game engine move is the correct term (for programmer side documentation anyway) because movement is the same thing as an attack aside from not having a hitbox and walking could just have a hitbox if I wanted. Walking forward is just a looping animation that plays off the 6 input and cancels into other movement "moves", including neutral. So confusing the two is fine because they're actually the same. If you're using it for player facing documentation (or if movement is it's own independent system code-wise) that doesn't work so well though.
Maybe "technique" or "ability" or something? If it matches up with your code "animation" might work but that's maybe less helpful for a player than a programmer, and might not be a good label depending on implementation.
I think I'm going with "technique", but I can always Ctrl+R if anyone suggests something better
The most commonly used word for non-special attacks is 'normals'. If thats too slangy, consider something like 'strikes'. You could lay out your offensive options into a large class called 'attacks' which could be broken into smaller categories like 'throw', 'strike', 'special', and 'super' or whatever.
The most commonly used word for non-special attacks is 'normals'. If thats too slangy, consider something like 'strikes'. You could lay out your offensive options into a large class called 'attacks' which could be broken into smaller categories like 'throw', 'strike', 'special', and 'super' or whatever.
Hmm... I'm including all inputs, normals and specials, under the same umbrella. There's really no difference between them except I set a Boolean on one of them.
The hard part is that locomotion is performed the same way, and it's not an attack. Like what would you call individual line items in the Tekken movelist even if they don't attack? Like Mishima wavedash
Comes down to just moves again. Attacks are moves, while moving is movement. But moves that dont attack are still moves, while movement that has a hitbox is still movement. (Xrd Raven airdash) Sucks that there isn't a clearer answer.
Knob on
+1
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited December 2018
You know I don't mind titty in fighting games and never have but man do I find pandering ass character designs annoying.
And while I'm still a big SC fan god do I hope they tone that shit down in the next one.
I actually felt that as far as that went SCV was somewhat a step in the right direction then the rude tits came roaring back in VI. Even got rude tits on characters who personality wise would not have rude tits.
my connections have all been fine to great so far, but it could definitely use a more robust lobby system than it has.
I don't care about having the option to only do no items fox only final destination matches with online randos with no chance of getting 4 player games or items on or a weird stage, but I can see how people who only want to do that would be annoyed by the "pick a ruleset at random from each ruleset the players you're matching have set" system for random matchmaking.
Posts
/tinfoil hat
you can make it so that your c-stick (or right analog if you arent on a gamecube pad) is tilts only but what myself and a lot of other people want are to disable smashes on the left analog and only use them with the right
I was kinda disappointed with 4 but I also want to play duck hunt dog again soo
its pretty fun so far and I could see myself entering a smash tournament in this game
Besides those already listed, I don't know why Nintendo refuses to let you use the frigging D-pad for movement. =_=
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Unrelated, I guess I'm suffering a pretty shitty bug in SFV with the latest patch. Seems my game is stuck in an infinite "needs to restart" loop. Womp womp ...
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Say what you like about Capcom's money grabs but at least they're trying to find a way to monetize the notoriously ~poverty~ FGC and putting the money back into the scene. Having said that, the new ad stuff looks BADDDDDDDDDD but hey, turn it off.
the ad stuff is dumb and less fight money for turning them off is also dumb
They haven't adjusted FM costs/rewards down so it's more like you get more for turning it on, but yeah, that whole system is EHHHHHHHH. It's a dumb gross thing, but the game is still the game
You're on the right track, but I'm trying to name the super-category that contains both "attacks" and "specials".
I'm at the point in game dev where I'm trying to make hitbox data, and I want to get my terminology straight so I can write up a tutorial to explain it.
This should just be a requirement to make a video game.
Do you mean the netcode, or the execution? There are some really good things you can do with remapping the controller that help a bunch, mainly:
1. Take jump off of "Up" on the control stick. This makes it a lot easier to do up attacks, at the cost of relearning jumping. BUT, this is good, because:
2. Hitting X (jump) and A at the same time does a quick-hop-into-air-attack. If you push a direction you can get any of the air attacks at ground level this way.
3. Switch right stick to be tilt attacks instead of smash attacks. Tilt attacks are faster than smash attacks so getting them out faster reliably is a big plus.
4. Depending on which controller you use, you're probably not using Y much, so consider mapping it to grab or shield.
You gave me a really solid fighting game tip a while ago that if you're trying to win by tricking your opponent, you need to change your approach. I still think about that every time I play competitive games now. I'd say another lesson that is really big in Smash is that you can't get married to what you try to do. Like I know it's a thing in fighting games anyway, i.e. I messed up this dragon punch so now I'm gonna fish for one until it lands, but in Smash there are sooooo many whiffs/bad inputs it can be really easy to get stuck on a tactic.
If it's the netcode, man, I just really wish that there was some way to say "If inputs are lagging, act like I'm shielding, okay?"
This is exactly me. I feel like a drunk newborn stumbling through a fight.
secret forbidden techniques
I'm basically competent at smash I think and it still feels that way most of the time tbh
Himitsu no Kinjutsu no 66A
So... Dead or Alive 6 is coming out.
You might want to watch around the 1:00 mark.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
THAT SAID, it might be too high level as well, but you could potentially lump it under "offense" as one of three main states alongside "neutral" and "defense". I don't know that I love this exactly, but it might be a different stating point for your train of thought.
Not that it's specifically this naming problem, but if you haven't, take a peek at how Blade Stangers labeled the buttons in the game. It's a phenomenal example of why breaking conventions can be a real pain in the butt and makes learning the game more difficult than it needs to be.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Who's the tutorial for? Other devs, or users/players?
maybe ill buy the online bit when i get back home after christmas
There is no good reason. Rivals of Aether gives the option to put smashes and tilts on 2 different buttons and it works great.
careful with that online bit
Rivals is so good! It's made on a budget of whatever fell into Smash's couch, but it just feels so much smoother to me.
And you can buy it for about what you find in your couch too! Also, the characters and their mechanics are often really fun to watch. Who doesn't love a bear that makes ice all over the place and builds his own armor out of it? Such a fun side-tourney game to watch~
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
A little of both. I'm writing the tutorial for new players who have never seen a fighting game before, but I need to get the terminology straight when I name things in code too.
If, say, a friend works on it with me who isn't familiar with fighting games, I want the game glossary and class names to be as 1:1 as possible
Maybe "technique" or "ability" or something? If it matches up with your code "animation" might work but that's maybe less helpful for a player than a programmer, and might not be a good label depending on implementation.
I think I'm going with "technique", but I can always Ctrl+R if anyone suggests something better
Hmm... I'm including all inputs, normals and specials, under the same umbrella. There's really no difference between them except I set a Boolean on one of them.
The hard part is that locomotion is performed the same way, and it's not an attack. Like what would you call individual line items in the Tekken movelist even if they don't attack? Like Mishima wavedash
And while I'm still a big SC fan god do I hope they tone that shit down in the next one.
I actually felt that as far as that went SCV was somewhat a step in the right direction then the rude tits came roaring back in VI. Even got rude tits on characters who personality wise would not have rude tits.
my connections have all been fine to great so far, but it could definitely use a more robust lobby system than it has.
I don't care about having the option to only do no items fox only final destination matches with online randos with no chance of getting 4 player games or items on or a weird stage, but I can see how people who only want to do that would be annoyed by the "pick a ruleset at random from each ruleset the players you're matching have set" system for random matchmaking.