I want him to resign. I do not know why you compare that to being executed.
Because you're calling for the most extreme option first when there's literally no evidence that he should up and leave. I want an investigation because, if this is true, there is almost certainly someone else in the know about it. Crime does not happen in a vacuum, especially these sorts of crimes. Let's call his friends up in front of a state house panel and start grilling them.
But I'm not going to call for him to end his career and potentially plunge Virginia into 1000 years of darkness without further proof.
This shows such a misunderstanding about sexual assault I don't even know where to begin. Believe it or not...rapists often times come off as very nice people! Especially around friends and family.
Right but would these people from 15 years ago qualify as friends now? Would they stay quiet if suddenly they get a subpoena to testify in front of a state house?
I don't think calling for an investigation is unreasonable. Especially in the circumstances that surround this accusation coming to light.
Again...you're assuming people close to a rapist would even know in the first place. Why would you assume a rapist would tell all their friends about how they raped someone?
Yes, it is a political hitjob, but that is why I believe the accusation.
The woman Fairfax raped made a private statement on Facebook. She didn't want to tell anybody, not really. That statement was then leaked to a rightwing shitblog by some MAGA-asshole. Once it was out in the open the woman that Fairfax raped, sensibly, hired a legal team but also made her information and the accusation public.
She did want to tell people. She told several people, the Washington Post, and a Virginia congressman (an ex of hers):
We will not accept this standard for literally any other crime and we shouldnt with this either.
Whether someone should resign is different than criminal prosecution.
Honestly they should be one and the same in a high office.
If this is true then I'd like for him to be prosecuted.
You believe before someone steps down the charge should be proved beyond a reasonable doubt?
I don't.
Accusations should never be enough to get someone fired from a job, I don't care what the accusation is or what the job is. It opens up the door to people accusing someone of something just to get them fired. There should always be an investigation. Innocent before proven guilty should mean just as much outside of a court room as inside of it.
In high office, if it winds up be true and proven, they should absolutely be prosecuted.
Here's the thing - an elected position isn't a job, but grant of authority, power, and most of all, trust. This is why Northam and Fairfax have to go - the trust has been breeched, and as such the public can no longer believe that they will work in their best interests.
We will not accept this standard for literally any other crime and we shouldnt with this either.
Whether someone should resign is different than criminal prosecution.
Honestly they should be one and the same in a high office.
If this is true then I'd like for him to be prosecuted.
You believe before someone steps down the charge should be proved beyond a reasonable doubt?
I don't.
Accusations should never be enough to get someone fired from a job, I don't care what the accusation is or what the job is. It opens up the door to people accusing someone of something just to get them fired. There should always be an investigation. Innocent before proven guilty should mean just as much outside of a court room as inside of it.
In high office, if it winds up be true and proven, they should absolutely be prosecuted.
Here's the thing - an elected position isn't a job, but grant of authority, power, and most of all, trust. This is why Northam and Fairfax have to go - the trust has been breeched, and as such the public can no longer believe that they will work in their best interests.
Northam can go, yes. He flubbed this entire test and damaged his standing with the people with his faffing about.
Has Fairfax breached the public trust, I don't think so. I think he at least deserves to be able to defend himself while still in office.
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
Yes, it is a political hitjob, but that is why I believe the accusation.
The woman Fairfax raped made a private statement on Facebook. She didn't want to tell anybody, not really. That statement was then leaked to a rightwing shitblog by some MAGA-asshole. Once it was out in the open the woman that Fairfax raped, sensibly, hired a legal team but also made her information and the accusation public.
She did want to tell people. She told several people, the Washington Post, and a Virginia congressman (an ex of hers):
Its hard to look at some of the opinions here about the just results of credible accusations and not see some partisan influence.
I mean, of course. Because people have literally been talking about them in that context and why it matters. Because not handing over control of the state of Virginia's government to the unelected Republican party is absolutely a thing people have explicitly talked about. And is something that should be talked about.
I know it technically amounts to the same thing, but “Northam should go because he botched the PR” sure feels like diminishing the damage he caused
Northam should go because he demonstrated he is either unaware of or unconcerned about the racism and its actual implications.
It gets back to the question that spawned the other thread about how to atone for what public officials might have done in the past.
Northam's actions themselves aren't (necessarily) disqualifying if he's learned from them and grown from them and changed. But his handling of the situation really doesn't seem to suggest that's what has happened.
You can look at Herring for an alternative approach.
If a swift and gracious apology is not enough, what is enough? As the saying goes "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Pretty much every human being has something horrible in their past if we could see it all laid out like a book.
I think herring should be considered the lucky beneficiary of being needed and not a model of how to handle things.
What more do you expect of him exactly?
Edit: like, Brittany Packnet on the PSA that just dropped had the opinion that doing some racist shit and then just apologizing shouldn’t be enough for someone to keep their job. They should do something. Make amends, show how they’re going to actively help those they hurt. I don’t disagree with that in concept. What should he do?
I think herring should be considered the lucky beneficiary of being needed and not a model of how to handle things.
What more do you expect of him exactly?
Edit: like, Brittany Packnet on the PSA that just dropped had the opinion that doing some racist shit and then just apologizing shouldn’t be enough for someone to keep their job. They should do something. Make amends, show how they’re going to actively help those they hurt. I don’t disagree with that in concept. What should he do?
Legit question, I don’t know.
It is my understanding that Herring has an actual record of promoting minority rights to point to, in particular defending (in court) the re-enfranchisement of felons that occurred under the previous Democratic governor, as well as other activities that show legitimate action taken towards fighting systemic racism. So not only did he handle the PR aspect in a reasonable way, he got out in front of any possible accusations and met privately with black lawmakers and discussed things with them, and he has an actual record of working towards a more equitable society to point to.
So, if that isn't enough, then what is? Would anything be enough?
I think herring should be considered the lucky beneficiary of being needed and not a model of how to handle things.
What more do you expect of him exactly?
Edit: like, Brittany Packnet on the PSA that just dropped had the opinion that doing some racist shit and then just apologizing shouldn’t be enough for someone to keep their job. They should do something. Make amends, show how they’re going to actively help those they hurt. I don’t disagree with that in concept. What should he do?
Legit question, I don’t know.
In order of preference:
1) not run for office
2) be open about these things *before* it’s a scandal or about to be one and you want to head it off. Do it very early in your career.
3) resign, albeit in this case I understand that we have to be careful not to lose all three at once
4) stay in office after apologizing well and working closely with leaders of the community you hurt (what he did)
BuzzFeed has an article on Northam's plan to survive and serve out his term. There's a lot in there, and you could check out the full article, but this was a highlight for me.
Northam doesn’t plan to hold any more press conferences any time soon. Advisers are in the midst of negotiations with major networks for a nationally televised interview they hope will humanize him. Additionally, his advisers have assigned the governor homework: He’s begun to read Alex Haley’s “Roots”, and “The Case for Reparations,” the seminal essay in The Atlantic by Ta-Nehisi Coates.
Yikes. If I was consulted I would advise against letting it slip out to the public that my plan for redemption include such tremendous sacrifices like reading Coates, but I'm a lowly internet commenter far away from powerhouse PR firms like IR+Media.
Unfortunately our political system kind of selects for them
Unfortunately the very nature of power in modern western civilization kind of selects for them. It's much easier to get ahead if you're completely amoral.
But yeah, Fairfax needs to step down immediately, and there needs to be a criminal investigation.
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BuzzFeed has an article on Northam's plan to survive and serve out his term. There's a lot in there, and you could check out the full article, but this was a highlight for me.
Northam doesn’t plan to hold any more press conferences any time soon. Advisers are in the midst of negotiations with major networks for a nationally televised interview they hope will humanize him. Additionally, his advisers have assigned the governor homework: He’s begun to read Alex Haley’s “Roots”, and “The Case for Reparations,” the seminal essay in The Atlantic by Ta-Nehisi Coates.
Yikes. If I was consulted I would advise against letting it slip out to the public that my plan for redemption include such tremendous sacrifices like reading Coates, but I'm a lowly internet commenter far away from powerhouse PR firms like IR+Media.
BuzzFeed has an article on Northam's plan to survive and serve out his term. There's a lot in there, and you could check out the full article, but this was a highlight for me.
Northam doesn’t plan to hold any more press conferences any time soon. Advisers are in the midst of negotiations with major networks for a nationally televised interview they hope will humanize him. Additionally, his advisers have assigned the governor homework: He’s begun to read Alex Haley’s “Roots”, and “The Case for Reparations,” the seminal essay in The Atlantic by Ta-Nehisi Coates.
Yikes. If I was consulted I would advise against letting it slip out to the public that my plan for redemption include such tremendous sacrifices like reading Coates, but I'm a lowly internet commenter far away from powerhouse PR firms like IR+Media.
This is somehow almost more upsetting than “nothing” was.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
So now oyr hope lies in the AG not fucking it all up. Hopefully, he's sincere.
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited February 2019
I kinda expect the WASHINGTON POST or NY TIMES to try to break a big Republican scandal story over the weekend, probably Sunday nite, to drag attention away from the growing Virginia trainwreck.
I kinda expect the WASHINGTON POST or NY TIMES to try to break a big Republican scandal story over the weekend, probably Sunday nite, to drag attention away from the growing Virginia trainwreck.
Sunday night not exactly know for grabbing headlines, all other issues here aside.
I kinda expect the WASHINGTON POST or NY TIMES to try to break a big Republican scandal story over the weekend, probably Sunday nite, to drag attention away from the growing Virginia trainwreck.
You mean, like, if the Senate Majority Leader was the editor of a yearbook containing multiple racial slurs and instances of blackface?
I don't think anybody would care, because that would honestly be expected.
BuzzFeed has an article on Northam's plan to survive and serve out his term. There's a lot in there, and you could check out the full article, but this was a highlight for me.
Northam doesn’t plan to hold any more press conferences any time soon. Advisers are in the midst of negotiations with major networks for a nationally televised interview they hope will humanize him. Additionally, his advisers have assigned the governor homework: He’s begun to read Alex Haley’s “Roots”, and “The Case for Reparations,” the seminal essay in The Atlantic by Ta-Nehisi Coates.
Yikes. If I was consulted I would advise against letting it slip out to the public that my plan for redemption include such tremendous sacrifices like reading Coates, but I'm a lowly internet commenter far away from powerhouse PR firms like IR+Media.
I probably would have added "again" somewhere in there
I kinda expect the WASHINGTON POST or NY TIMES to try to break a big Republican scandal story over the weekend, probably Sunday nite, to drag attention away from the growing Virginia trainwreck.
This is not a media thread, so speculative posts about the WaPo or NYT will do are not on-topic.
I kinda expect the WASHINGTON POST or NY TIMES to try to break a big Republican scandal story over the weekend, probably Sunday nite, to drag attention away from the growing Virginia trainwreck.
I'll write my Uncle- who works for the secret media cabal- and ask him to get Fairfax nominated for the Supreme Court instead.
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TLDR:
-Northam should still resign with the caveat maybe wait till the Fairfax issue is cleaned up. This is more a private statement
-Fairfax needs to be investigated. They believe the victim but want to have more than just an accusation before it is final on their call to resign
-Herring is okay as long as he shows he can continue to lead aka put some stuff forward to help PoC more
This was echoed by the Dems in Richmond and both of the VA senators. The Assembly will be in session today and off over the weekend.
Also new stuff showed up. The Republican head of the Senate yesterday and a Dem state senator who went to William and Mary was found to have participated in a thing called a "slave auction" where frat folks are sold to do a day of work for folks.
Sounds like everyone's yearbooks and college materials are being looked at now. So expect more to come out possibly.
Only going to make one post on this, but expect this to go national, too (but this is VA thread).
Posts
Again...you're assuming people close to a rapist would even know in the first place. Why would you assume a rapist would tell all their friends about how they raped someone?
She did want to tell people. She told several people, the Washington Post, and a Virginia congressman (an ex of hers):
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/politics/vanessa-tyson-bobby-scott-allegations/index.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/justin-fairfax-vanessa-tyson-accuser-sexual-assault-allegations-told-others-congressman-over-year-ago/
Her social circle seem to have been well aware of this.
Here's the thing - an elected position isn't a job, but grant of authority, power, and most of all, trust. This is why Northam and Fairfax have to go - the trust has been breeched, and as such the public can no longer believe that they will work in their best interests.
Northam can go, yes. He flubbed this entire test and damaged his standing with the people with his faffing about.
Has Fairfax breached the public trust, I don't think so. I think he at least deserves to be able to defend himself while still in office.
Definitely works in the victims favor. There's gotta be a better way to say that.
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Northam should go because he demonstrated he is either unaware of or unconcerned about the racism and its actual implications.
I mean, of course. Because people have literally been talking about them in that context and why it matters. Because not handing over control of the state of Virginia's government to the unelected Republican party is absolutely a thing people have explicitly talked about. And is something that should be talked about.
It gets back to the question that spawned the other thread about how to atone for what public officials might have done in the past.
Northam's actions themselves aren't (necessarily) disqualifying if he's learned from them and grown from them and changed. But his handling of the situation really doesn't seem to suggest that's what has happened.
You can look at Herring for an alternative approach.
How so? His approach seems to have been much more well received, even in the abstract.
What more do you expect of him exactly?
Edit: like, Brittany Packnet on the PSA that just dropped had the opinion that doing some racist shit and then just apologizing shouldn’t be enough for someone to keep their job. They should do something. Make amends, show how they’re going to actively help those they hurt. I don’t disagree with that in concept. What should he do?
Legit question, I don’t know.
It is my understanding that Herring has an actual record of promoting minority rights to point to, in particular defending (in court) the re-enfranchisement of felons that occurred under the previous Democratic governor, as well as other activities that show legitimate action taken towards fighting systemic racism. So not only did he handle the PR aspect in a reasonable way, he got out in front of any possible accusations and met privately with black lawmakers and discussed things with them, and he has an actual record of working towards a more equitable society to point to.
So, if that isn't enough, then what is? Would anything be enough?
Ben Jacobs is a reporter for the Guardian.
In order of preference:
1) not run for office
2) be open about these things *before* it’s a scandal or about to be one and you want to head it off. Do it very early in your career.
3) resign, albeit in this case I understand that we have to be careful not to lose all three at once
4) stay in office after apologizing well and working closely with leaders of the community you hurt (what he did)
5) do it badly like Noetham did
These things are usually a pattern of behaviour so if there's one there's usually more to be found if you go looking.
Well, that's it, then
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Unfortunately our political system kind of selects for them
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/darrensands/virginia-gov-ralph-northam-survival-plan
Yikes. If I was consulted I would advise against letting it slip out to the public that my plan for redemption include such tremendous sacrifices like reading Coates, but I'm a lowly internet commenter far away from powerhouse PR firms like IR+Media.
Unfortunately the very nature of power in modern western civilization kind of selects for them. It's much easier to get ahead if you're completely amoral.
But yeah, Fairfax needs to step down immediately, and there needs to be a criminal investigation.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
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Holy shit. I
This is somehow almost more upsetting than “nothing” was.
Sunday night not exactly know for grabbing headlines, all other issues here aside.
You mean, like, if the Senate Majority Leader was the editor of a yearbook containing multiple racial slurs and instances of blackface?
I don't think anybody would care, because that would honestly be expected.
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I probably would have added "again" somewhere in there
I hadn't ever thought about it, but yeah.
This is not a media thread, so speculative posts about the WaPo or NYT will do are not on-topic.
I'll write my Uncle- who works for the secret media cabal- and ask him to get Fairfax nominated for the Supreme Court instead.
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Only going to make one post on this, but expect this to go national, too (but this is VA thread).
I am not inlining this tweet because of the image. But this is a tweet from a NC reporter looking at 1979 yearbooks for UNC-Chapel Hill and....yeah.
This seems like it should have been entry-level. Like, this is your ticket just to run at all.
And if you haven't, why admit it?