One thing I'd like to see explored more about Moclan culture, which they keep coming at indirectly, is the environment that shaped it. They keep harping on how hostile their native environment is, and how all their physiology and culture exists as an adaptation to survive it.
But aside from the episode in season 1 where they visited and they had the gag about needing to avoid random air explosions, Alara's homeworld seemed far more hostile with it's super gravity, and everyone there evolved to be super enlightened doctors and philosophers who abhor violence. The few black sheep that go into the armed forces aside.
So I'm really curious if they'll actually look into why Moclans are the way they are, as a true successor to Star Trek would. Or if they'll just write them off as assholes as Current Year kind of requires.
The Moclans are weird, and I don't want another Moclan episode or Bortus episode in the next 10 episodes, but they don't seem to be aggressively violent like Klingons, they seem quite even tempered most of the time, yet their response to many social events is violence, like divorce requires murder (that's another thing about why Klyden can go fuck himself) or you rip a tooth out from a breakup. But they also seem to be very technologically advanced despite the archaic setting of that court. The series seems like it wants them to be all things.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
One thing I'd like to see explored more about Moclan culture, which they keep coming at indirectly, is the environment that shaped it. They keep harping on how hostile their native environment is, and how all their physiology and culture exists as an adaptation to survive it.
But aside from the episode in season 1 where they visited and they had the gag about needing to avoid random air explosions, Alara's homeworld seemed far more hostile with it's super gravity, and everyone there evolved to be super enlightened doctors and philosophers who abhor violence. The few black sheep that go into the armed forces aside.
So I'm really curious if they'll actually look into why Moclans are the way they are, as a true successor to Star Trek would. Or if they'll just write them off as assholes as Current Year kind of requires.
I feel like it's implied that the Moclans basically fucked up their planet and have had to make some huge adaptations and advances for the species to survive. Living conditions would have to be pretty harsh to convince a species with binary sexes to intentionally revert to a single sex, just because the one sex is physically stronger and more durable. They obviously don't give any kind of a shit about the ecosystem of their world, and the world itself looks to be essentially a barren wasteland.
I think it's likely that they encountered the Union just as they were successfully recovering from whatever enormous disaster they inflicted on themselves, which is why the society is so rigid and inflexible without a need for it and the Union itself is only now realizing the Moclans are deeper into some fucked-up stuff than originally thought. Up until recently, the Moclans must have thought all those rigid traditions were necessary, but now things have relaxed enough to actually allow for the space to question what they're doing.
When it comes to Alara's homeworld, the only thing hostile is the gravity and since the people there had evolved for it to be like earth human gravity, it was no big deal to them.
Moclan seems to be way harsher then that. though how much of it is self-inflicted due to industrialization and general macho war-like behavior is unknown. These are the guys that play a game of hot potato that ends with somebody stabbed in the hand.
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Moclus strikes me as being the same situation as the Drell in mass effect.
It was a barren wasteland and they were on the verge of extinction because of wars for resources. Except instead of being saved by religious jellyfish I assume the early union provided them with replicators and such and their society stabilized
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I want more Gordon and more Lamar, and a lot less Bortus family life.
A lot less Klyden.
Seriously, we've had something like four Moclan/Bortus episodes. I enjoy the Moclan stuff a whole lot more when it's karaoke night or seeing what they can get Bortus to eat. Gordon and Lamar are the laidback types totally missing from the Star Trek setting, I enjoy them a lot more than seeing which horrible way Moclans destroy each other this week.
I have to assume Klyden will just leave at some point. Toppa is already divorced from their shitty society growing up on the Orville so I think he'd stay
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I want more Gordon and more Lamar, and a lot less Bortus family life.
A lot less Klyden.
This sums up my feelings pretty well, I liked Bortus when he was more of a secondary character doing fun things like eating plates and shit while Gordon and Lamar took bets.
Re: the Moclans in general, I think they are good for the occasional episode to address a gender/sexuality topic, but the lack of personality that makes them work for that also means I don’t need to see too much of them, and this extends to Bortus and Klyden for the same reason. Also Klyden really sucks, and I think we played out how that affects Bortus with the episode where he was addicted to the simulation room.
I think if these were spaced out a little more itd be better but I think again some of the earlier episodes were supposed to be in season one and they got front loaded into this season.
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I think if these were spaced out a little more itd be better but I think again some of the earlier episodes were supposed to be in season one and they got front loaded into this season.
Ep 2 was (the simulator addiction), but not the others, going by the production numbers.
I have to assume Klyden will just leave at some point. Toppa is already divorced from their shitty society growing up on the Orville so I think he'd stay
I really like a lot of Bortus' character and how he interacts with the rest of the crew or the Problem of the Week, I even did like his family stuff
but at this point Klyden is the problem. He's awful and toxic and anathema to the Union's values, and I really hope he goes away sooner rather than later
I have to assume Klyden will just leave at some point. Toppa is already divorced from their shitty society growing up on the Orville so I think he'd stay
I have to assume Klyden will just leave at some point. Toppa is already divorced from their shitty society growing up on the Orville so I think he'd stay
Like all things Worf, DS9 Alexander was better than TNG Alexander. Most of the problems with TNG Alexander were really problems with Lwaxana, though, the one episode where he seriously acted up she was undermining every other adult in his life and telling him to just do whatever felt fun in the moment.
I was hoping they were going to lean into Gordon's alcohol history and see how he was adjusting to regimented Union life, but he seems to just be okay?
That episode where Picard sings to the kids as they climb the turbolift is a pretty good one for how kids would react. Of course, i'm pretty sure it didn't require acting, just grab some random kids and tell them "this man here is going to talk to you" and then watch the magic happen.
I was hoping they were going to lean into Gordon's alcohol history and see how he was adjusting to regimented Union life, but he seems to just be okay?
I think he was already at rock bottom when he was recruited for the Orville. I doubt he wants to tank his best friends first command so he probably curbed some of his worse behaviors
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
I was hoping they were going to lean into Gordon's alcohol history and see how he was adjusting to regimented Union life, but he seems to just be okay?
I think he was already at rock bottom when he was recruited for the Orville. I doubt he wants to tank his best friends first command so he probably curbed some of his worse behaviors
I think it also helped that he formed a quick friendship with John. The show could have leaned too heavy with Gordon being dependent on Ed.
They've really done a good job that all these folks are actual people with issues, but do have personalities beyond those issues.
I'm kind of hoping Klyden becomes the new Wesley Crusher personally.
Wesley meant well at least
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
While Klyden is indeed awful, there's a small part of me that read the last couple of scenes in the previous episode as him finally beginning to understand the consequences of his bigotry. In my head, the non-verbal exchange between him and Bortus at the very end went something like:
Bortus: I love you, but sometimes you're a real piece of shit, Klyden. Klyden: Yeah... you know, I think I might be.
I like the idea of this being the moment that starts turning him around, because I like to think people are capable of change, even the worst of us. I guess we'll see how it plays out though.
Klyden is one of those people that "hates drama". And by that I mean "tries to be the center of it as much as possible".
Bortus was very clearly uncomfortable with having his ex come in and eat dinner with the family, and Klyden basically says "fuck you for being uncomfortable, Bortus, sit down and agonize through this meal that you were hoping would be a pleasant family affair".
Gotta wonder if Bortus just feels trapped because he actually does want to divorce Klyden, but his exposure to Union ideas makes realize it's insane to divorce via murder and so he has literally no choice but to not do anything for the sake of his son.
I want more Gordon and more Lamar, and a lot less Bortus family life.
A lot less Klyden.
Seriously, we've had something like four Moclan/Bortus episodes. I enjoy the Moclan stuff a whole lot more when it's karaoke night or seeing what they can get Bortus to eat. Gordon and Lamar are the laidback types totally missing from the Star Trek setting, I enjoy them a lot more than seeing which horrible way Moclans destroy each other this week.
Best part of the episode was Gordon guessing at the Moclan rituals.
I want more Gordon and more Lamar, and a lot less Bortus family life.
A lot less Klyden.
Seriously, we've had something like four Moclan/Bortus episodes. I enjoy the Moclan stuff a whole lot more when it's karaoke night or seeing what they can get Bortus to eat. Gordon and Lamar are the laidback types totally missing from the Star Trek setting, I enjoy them a lot more than seeing which horrible way Moclans destroy each other this week.
Best part of the episode was Gordon guessing at the Moclan rituals.
Gordon is pretty frequently the best part of an episode. Plus he shares the high point of the show so far with Isaac.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
Klyden did what he did out of jealousy. He wasn't following his husbands ex out of civic duty. That's why I think he's beyond redemption
It could also be the starting point of realization, 'I really am the asshole here, and this will only get worse.'
I feel like theres no coming back from condemning a person to life imprisonment.
I mean Pulaski slowly turned around on Data but nobody stopped hating her and that was just being a bitch to a co-worker
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
It's pretty clear to me at least that Klyden is Seth's representation of "the middle American"
I'd imagine since they tackle some pretty deep issues on this show that there will be a chance for him to come around rather than just be "the middle American" for another two seasons.
Klyden did what he did out of jealousy. He wasn't following his husbands ex out of civic duty. That's why I think he's beyond redemption
It could also be the starting point of realization, 'I really am the asshole here, and this will only get worse.'
I feel like theres no coming back from condemning a person to life imprisonment.
I mean Pulaski slowly turned around on Data but nobody stopped hating her and that was just being a bitch to a co-worker
I get were you are coming from but I think the point of these stories is not just shame the bad behaviour but try to understand the environment it comes from. These are people who are coming from a culture we're this is entirely reasonable. This is what they have been raised to live with. It doesn't make it right but I think it's trying to show that people have shitty ideas and morals because they have lived in a world where they have never been challenged on it. I think we see here Klyden at the end of the episode questioning for the first time something which in his mind has always just been the way the world is. It's not a decision he made at an earlier stage, in his mind it was just the way the world was.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Yeah, I don't hold that Klyden is irredeemable. Changing somebody like that is a matter of constantly challenging what is horrible about their traditions while also resisting the temptation to just write them off forever. Completely excluding them from reasonable society is tempting as an easier approach, but it's also what keeps that sort of person stuck in their traditions since they have nowhere else to go. They have to see that people who really care about other people aren't willing to arbitrarily destroy and/or condemn anyone just because that's how things have always been done.
It's not nearly enough for somebody like Klyden to be told they're wrong, they have to be shown how to feel and understand what's wrong about what they're doing, as well as being given a viable alternative to the situation that locked them into that mindset in the first place.
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But aside from the episode in season 1 where they visited and they had the gag about needing to avoid random air explosions, Alara's homeworld seemed far more hostile with it's super gravity, and everyone there evolved to be super enlightened doctors and philosophers who abhor violence. The few black sheep that go into the armed forces aside.
So I'm really curious if they'll actually look into why Moclans are the way they are, as a true successor to Star Trek would. Or if they'll just write them off as assholes as Current Year kind of requires.
I feel like it's implied that the Moclans basically fucked up their planet and have had to make some huge adaptations and advances for the species to survive. Living conditions would have to be pretty harsh to convince a species with binary sexes to intentionally revert to a single sex, just because the one sex is physically stronger and more durable. They obviously don't give any kind of a shit about the ecosystem of their world, and the world itself looks to be essentially a barren wasteland.
I think it's likely that they encountered the Union just as they were successfully recovering from whatever enormous disaster they inflicted on themselves, which is why the society is so rigid and inflexible without a need for it and the Union itself is only now realizing the Moclans are deeper into some fucked-up stuff than originally thought. Up until recently, the Moclans must have thought all those rigid traditions were necessary, but now things have relaxed enough to actually allow for the space to question what they're doing.
Moclan seems to be way harsher then that. though how much of it is self-inflicted due to industrialization and general macho war-like behavior is unknown. These are the guys that play a game of hot potato that ends with somebody stabbed in the hand.
It was a barren wasteland and they were on the verge of extinction because of wars for resources. Except instead of being saved by religious jellyfish I assume the early union provided them with replicators and such and their society stabilized
A lot less Klyden.
Seriously, we've had something like four Moclan/Bortus episodes. I enjoy the Moclan stuff a whole lot more when it's karaoke night or seeing what they can get Bortus to eat. Gordon and Lamar are the laidback types totally missing from the Star Trek setting, I enjoy them a lot more than seeing which horrible way Moclans destroy each other this week.
This sums up my feelings pretty well, I liked Bortus when he was more of a secondary character doing fun things like eating plates and shit while Gordon and Lamar took bets.
Re: the Moclans in general, I think they are good for the occasional episode to address a gender/sexuality topic, but the lack of personality that makes them work for that also means I don’t need to see too much of them, and this extends to Bortus and Klyden for the same reason. Also Klyden really sucks, and I think we played out how that affects Bortus with the episode where he was addicted to the simulation room.
Ep 2 was (the simulator addiction), but not the others, going by the production numbers.
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Teen Toppa would be a perfect Wesley next season.
but at this point Klyden is the problem. He's awful and toxic and anathema to the Union's values, and I really hope he goes away sooner rather than later
The higher, the fewer.
Rom and Nog were pretty believable, too.
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I think he was already at rock bottom when he was recruited for the Orville. I doubt he wants to tank his best friends first command so he probably curbed some of his worse behaviors
I think it also helped that he formed a quick friendship with John. The show could have leaned too heavy with Gordon being dependent on Ed.
They've really done a good job that all these folks are actual people with issues, but do have personalities beyond those issues.
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I too hope that a magical space pedophile takes him away forever.
Wesley meant well at least
Klyden: Yeah... you know, I think I might be.
I like the idea of this being the moment that starts turning him around, because I like to think people are capable of change, even the worst of us. I guess we'll see how it plays out though.
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Bortus was very clearly uncomfortable with having his ex come in and eat dinner with the family, and Klyden basically says "fuck you for being uncomfortable, Bortus, sit down and agonize through this meal that you were hoping would be a pleasant family affair".
Gotta wonder if Bortus just feels trapped because he actually does want to divorce Klyden, but his exposure to Union ideas makes realize it's insane to divorce via murder and so he has literally no choice but to not do anything for the sake of his son.
Best part of the episode was Gordon guessing at the Moclan rituals.
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Gordon is pretty frequently the best part of an episode. Plus he shares the high point of the show so far with Isaac.
It could also be the starting point of realization, 'I really am the asshole here, and this will only get worse.'
I feel like theres no coming back from condemning a person to life imprisonment.
I mean Pulaski slowly turned around on Data but nobody stopped hating her and that was just being a bitch to a co-worker
I'd imagine since they tackle some pretty deep issues on this show that there will be a chance for him to come around rather than just be "the middle American" for another two seasons.
I get were you are coming from but I think the point of these stories is not just shame the bad behaviour but try to understand the environment it comes from. These are people who are coming from a culture we're this is entirely reasonable. This is what they have been raised to live with. It doesn't make it right but I think it's trying to show that people have shitty ideas and morals because they have lived in a world where they have never been challenged on it. I think we see here Klyden at the end of the episode questioning for the first time something which in his mind has always just been the way the world is. It's not a decision he made at an earlier stage, in his mind it was just the way the world was.
It's not nearly enough for somebody like Klyden to be told they're wrong, they have to be shown how to feel and understand what's wrong about what they're doing, as well as being given a viable alternative to the situation that locked them into that mindset in the first place.