Oh hey my ballot showed up today out here on California. I forgot I get to do this out here. Already mailed it back.
Am not by any stretch a Bernie fan. The conspiracy theories drive me crazy. I don’t care for the “oppressed issues are just class issues in disguise” vibe. And no matter how good he is,an old white man is not what America needs.
But I did vote for him. For two reasons. One, he gathered the endorsements of lots of people I am a fan of. Publicly like AOC and privately like a lot of my friends. Two, I don’t think “return to normalcy” is the right message. Americans aren’t happy and don’t want to hear that everything should go back to status quo statecraft. Sanders seems to be doing a better job of catching that zeitgeist than Warren, even if they have equally radical platforms.
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
I think now that the impeachment... whatever that was.. is over we'll see a lot more great things from her.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
The Caucus system sounds like something that might be really fun when your entire population consists of a single settler town where everyone knows each other, and then falls apart almost immediately when scaling up from there.
The Caucus system sounds like something that might be really fun when your entire population consists of a single settler town where everyone knows each other, and then falls apart almost immediately when scaling up from there.
It was developed into it's current form in the 20th century!
The caucus system should have been booted after 2016. It's as simple as that. It was retained in a few small states for pretty openly craven politically tactical reasons. Hopefully this is the end of it.
Or, I guess Buttigieg also won more delegates too?
I think they get the same amount of delegates at the primary from that, but who the fuck knows with a caucus.
538 disagrees now so who knows
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MeeqeLord of the pants most fancySomeplace amazingRegistered Userregular
Not the crosstabs I expected! I think that starts to answer some of the questions about whether Bernies rhetoric resonates with certain demographics. I seem to remember there being a lot of concern about how effective his class based rhetoric was going to intersect with people facing issues that we more commonly frame as sexism and racism.
At least now we have numbers to argue about! Election dragon may hunger, but at least we get to steal from its golden hoard of data about political alignments.
Not the crosstabs I expected! I think that starts to answer some of the questions about whether Bernies rhetoric resonates with certain demographics. I seem to remember there being a lot of concern about how effective his class based rhetoric was going to intersect with people facing issues that we more commonly frame as sexism and racism.
At least now we have numbers to argue about! Election dragon may hunger, but at least we get to steal from its golden hoard of data about political alignments.
Class based politics work well among racial groups stastically more likely to suffer the ill effects of class!
I seem to remember there being a lot of concern about how effective his class based rhetoric was going to intersect with people facing issues that we more commonly frame as sexism and racism.
Bernie listened to those concerns and got a lot of good people to help him understand them more fully, and it really paid off.
The Caucus system sounds like something that might be really fun when your entire population consists of a single settler town where everyone knows each other, and then falls apart almost immediately when scaling up from there.
Yeah especially when the lifestyle of said town works such that you can functionally shut down town for the caucus and call it a holiday and the manfolks can leave their women and children at home and go have themselves a nice civilized caucus.
Not the crosstabs I expected! I think that starts to answer some of the questions about whether Bernies rhetoric resonates with certain demographics. I seem to remember there being a lot of concern about how effective his class based rhetoric was going to intersect with people facing issues that we more commonly frame as sexism and racism.
At least now we have numbers to argue about! Election dragon may hunger, but at least we get to steal from its golden hoard of data about political alignments.
I don't know that I'd infer much from the crosstabs on minorities in Iowa. It was a poll of just over 3000 people, and it was 91% white, so the non-white sample size is like... 270.
I seem to remember there being a lot of concern about how effective his class based rhetoric was going to intersect with people facing issues that we more commonly frame as sexism and racism.
Bernie listened to those concerns and got a lot of good people to help him understand them more fully, and it really paid off.
Iowa is not a good basis for measuring Sanders impact on voters of color. He has 8% of black voters in the latest YouGov national poll. He also has the most extreme gender gap, doing 7% better among men than women
This may come as a shock but gay and trans aren't synonymous.
Alana Cleverley is a 29-year-old transgender woman who lives in Montpelier, Vermont’s capital. A few weeks ago, she got a tattoo of Sanders inked on her ankle, in part because of the work Sanders has done for the LGBT community.
“His actions show that he feels that everybody should be treated as equals,” said Cleverley. “Everybody should have equal rights regardless of their situation and regardless of their gender. He has fought for all of that and made it way easier for everybody in the community. Not just for trans people, but for everybody.”
According to Cleverley, Sanders changed attitudes and helped shape Vermont into a more accepting state. She said she feels safer in Vermont than anywhere else.
“I can easily go anywhere designed for females, even though I was not born a female,” said Cleverley. “The fact that we are such a progressive state that allows for that has made my life so much easier.”
Alana seems to think Sanders is an ally at least so I dunno my friend.
And another person you left out disagrees. And you might note I was looking for Sander's position. Not other people's opinion of him.
Ah yes, the one person who said "yeah he's good, but why hasn't he talked louder about it" means "they're not a good ally".
This is exactly what I was talking about.
"I want to know you're concerned that we are being fucking murdered" is not exactly "you're not loud enough".
Neither of the remaining Democratic candidates have spoken to reforming policy that will help secure health care and public accommodations for trans people,” she said. “I’m still waiting to hear acknowledgement that the numbers of [killed] trans women of color are even alarming to these people.”
And even then the main thrust of the complaint is health care.
Well, that article is from 2017. Since then, the candidates have been clear to include transgender folks in their health plans, so that problem has been accounted for.
The problem is that the transgender community has more needs and concerns than just health care. The question at the debate was about combating violence against transgender individuals - something that improving access to health care will only impact marginally, so why bring it up? Why not, as you pointed out, bring up the work he did as mayor to protect transgender individuals in his community, and how he would apply that to the Presidency?
In a fundamental way, he didn't actually answer the question put before him, and that comes back to that hyperfocus on class. Someone pointed out that marginalized groups are getting screwed under unfettered capitalism, and while that's true - what assurance do they have that any other system will be better for them? After all, socialist societies aren't free of discrimination either.
I honestly don't understand how you can pontificate about Bernie Sanders' fundamental problems without bothering to check up on his actual platform. He actually listened, like you wanted him to! You can't just accuse him of a hyperfocus on class as if it is 2016 or whatever. If you think the transgender community has more needs and concerns his policy ignores, point them out!
This "Sanders only class, no marginalized groups" talk needs to fucking stop.
According to a New York Times analysis, more than 100 precincts reported results that were internally inconsistent, that were missing data or that were not possible under the complex rules of the Iowa caucuses... The rules are complex and thorough, and they create conditions in which the results can be obviously inaccurate or inconsistent within a precinct.
Sounds like it's a good thing Bernie pushed for the caucuses to collect and report more data than they did last time, otherwise these inconsistencies and problems might not have been spotted!
I seem to remember there being a lot of concern about how effective his class based rhetoric was going to intersect with people facing issues that we more commonly frame as sexism and racism.
Bernie listened to those concerns and got a lot of good people to help him understand them more fully, and it really paid off.
Iowa is not a good basis for measuring Sanders impact on voters of color. He has 8% of black voters in the latest YouGov national poll. He also has the most extreme gender gap, doing 7% better among men than women
Iowa is a great measure for Sanders' ability to attract non-white and minority voters. And not because of a simple entrance/exit vote, that's just the final result. It's what went into this result that makes it impressive. A well covered (if you care to look at it) effort by leftists activists, both white and non-white, to reach out to non-white communities, talk to them about both the issues and Bernie, getting them excited about the campaign, getting them registered, actually physically getting them to their caucus locations so they can participate.
It's an actual documented effort on the ground that massively paid fruit in actual votes. I'm not surprised that some people will be dismissive of it, but they're flat out wrong.
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JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
I seem to remember there being a lot of concern about how effective his class based rhetoric was going to intersect with people facing issues that we more commonly frame as sexism and racism.
Bernie listened to those concerns and got a lot of good people to help him understand them more fully, and it really paid off.
Iowa is not a good basis for measuring Sanders impact on voters of color. He has 8% of black voters in the latest YouGov national poll. He also has the most extreme gender gap, doing 7% better among men than women
Yet he has 28% among Hispanic voters.
And also fuck man who cares about first choice percentages at this point? "Extreme" gender gap notwithstanding, Sanders doesn't really differ from any non-Biden candidate in this poll that was held before we got the Iowa results. it's all not enough to base anything on.
Whether or not it's true overall, what the reporting displays right now is that the Sanders campaign currently has the best ground game. The early success display that.
MeeqeLord of the pants most fancySomeplace amazingRegistered Userregular
If Bernie is able to pull that many new voters into engagement from communities who have previously faced systemic barriers to voting, especially in places like Iowa, then I might be eyeballing him on par with Warren. The people who want to change things are there, but they face huge barriers to political participation. If Bernie gets those voters to the polls then he's pulling off, in real time, proof that people want leftist change. Its impressive however you look at it.
OFA proved ground game with smart media wins. If Bernie learned that lesson it makes him rise significantly in my already good esteem.
Whether or not it's true overall, what the reporting displays right now is that the Sanders campaign currently has the best ground game. The early success display that.
I've seen a couple pollsters suggest that the kerfuffle with the satellite caucuses is probably having some weird effects. By all indicators, Sanders's team was the only one who devoted any real effort to them, so rather than being broadly similar to the overall results of the rest of Iowa as expected, they were like, 95% for Sanders. This compounds with the weird rules for them and the IDP giving them significantly more SDEs than expected, and the distribution of them being lopsided. And now doing a sanity correction of that after the fact would... cause the conspiracy theorists to go into super duper ultra overdrive.
Also, does that mean we're going to say that Buttigieg has an amazing ground game too? Especially since he beat his expected numbers all the more? Biden's ground game certainly seems... in trouble at any rate, to put it mildly.
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
I seem to remember there being a lot of concern about how effective his class based rhetoric was going to intersect with people facing issues that we more commonly frame as sexism and racism.
Bernie listened to those concerns and got a lot of good people to help him understand them more fully, and it really paid off.
Iowa is not a good basis for measuring Sanders impact on voters of color. He has 8% of black voters in the latest YouGov national poll. He also has the most extreme gender gap, doing 7% better among men than women
Iowa is a great measure for Sanders' ability to attract non-white and minority voters. And not because of a simple entrance/exit vote, that's just the final result. It's what went into this result that makes it impressive. A well covered (if you care to look at it) effort by leftists activists, both white and non-white, to reach out to non-white communities, talk to them about both the issues and Bernie, getting them excited about the campaign, getting them registered, actually physically getting them to their caucus locations so they can participate.
It's an actual documented effort on the ground that massively paid fruit in actual votes. I'm not surprised that some people will be dismissive of it, but they're flat out wrong.
I respect that he made a really strong effort there, yay Bernie and all.
But the political dynamics in an extremely white state with a POC population small enough to fit in a bathtub is not, in itself, this amazing proof of concept. If he can replicate this in South Carolina? Cool, I'll be convinced he's onto something. But this is a single data point in a highly irregular state backed by a a poll with a sample size of a couple hundred.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I'm happy that Sanders is doing well. I think he would make a good president domestically, but I worry about him extending the power of the presidency in a way that further erodes Congress. Also reading his policy platforms makes me like him a lot more cause although he touts that he's a socialist his policies clearly are not.
I hope there is a documentary crew following the Biden campaign. I want to eventually learn about these people on a deeper level and I want to know why, just why.
It's hard to even imagine the type of person who would volunteer for the Biden campaign. My hacky imagination is just coming up with beautiful soft white children who yearn to be called "champ" by an old man.
I seem to remember there being a lot of concern about how effective his class based rhetoric was going to intersect with people facing issues that we more commonly frame as sexism and racism.
Bernie listened to those concerns and got a lot of good people to help him understand them more fully, and it really paid off.
Iowa is not a good basis for measuring Sanders impact on voters of color. He has 8% of black voters in the latest YouGov national poll. He also has the most extreme gender gap, doing 7% better among men than women
Iowa is a great measure for Sanders' ability to attract non-white and minority voters. And not because of a simple entrance/exit vote, that's just the final result. It's what went into this result that makes it impressive. A well covered (if you care to look at it) effort by leftists activists, both white and non-white, to reach out to non-white communities, talk to them about both the issues and Bernie, getting them excited about the campaign, getting them registered, actually physically getting them to their caucus locations so they can participate.
It's an actual documented effort on the ground that massively paid fruit in actual votes. I'm not surprised that some people will be dismissive of it, but they're flat out wrong.
I respect that he made a really strong effort there, yay Bernie and all.
But the political dynamics in an extremely white state with a POC population small enough to fit in a bathtub is not, in itself, this amazing proof of concept. If he can replicate this in South Carolina? Cool, I'll be convinced he's onto something. But this is a single data point in a highly irregular state backed by a a poll with a sample size of a couple hundred.
This feels realy weird to me because it comes across in such a way that it risks discounting the agency of POC because they're a smaller minority of the population than seen in other states? I know that's not your intent, but I worry it risks coming around to that if we're not careful with the logic
Like with Zoom's thing about the extremely white state being similar to that; it risks glossing over the choices of POC because they aren't sufficiently numerous compared to white folks.
I hope there is a documentary crew following the Biden campaign. I want to eventually learn about these people on a deeper level and I want to know why, just why.
It's hard to even imagine the type of person who would volunteer for the Biden campaign. My hacky imagination is just coming up with beautiful soft white children who yearn to be called "champ" by an old man.
People who hate Trump.
People who liked Obama.
People who Warren and Sanders scare the living shit out of.
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Hi, probably future me when Ohio gets its turn
Politico editor:
America really does the use the most obtuse method possible for selecting its President
Democracy!
It was developed into it's current form in the 20th century!
I think they get the same amount of delegates at the primary from that, but who the fuck knows with a caucus.
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QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
538 disagrees now so who knows
At least now we have numbers to argue about! Election dragon may hunger, but at least we get to steal from its golden hoard of data about political alignments.
Class based politics work well among racial groups stastically more likely to suffer the ill effects of class!
Bernie listened to those concerns and got a lot of good people to help him understand them more fully, and it really paid off.
Yeah especially when the lifestyle of said town works such that you can functionally shut down town for the caucus and call it a holiday and the manfolks can leave their women and children at home and go have themselves a nice civilized caucus.
So, you know, terrible.
I don't know that I'd infer much from the crosstabs on minorities in Iowa. It was a poll of just over 3000 people, and it was 91% white, so the non-white sample size is like... 270.
Iowa is not a good basis for measuring Sanders impact on voters of color. He has 8% of black voters in the latest YouGov national poll. He also has the most extreme gender gap, doing 7% better among men than women
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Well Sanders has a whole website with his plan and all that. https://berniesanders.com/en/issues/lgbtq-equality/
I honestly don't understand how you can pontificate about Bernie Sanders' fundamental problems without bothering to check up on his actual platform. He actually listened, like you wanted him to! You can't just accuse him of a hyperfocus on class as if it is 2016 or whatever. If you think the transgender community has more needs and concerns his policy ignores, point them out!
This "Sanders only class, no marginalized groups" talk needs to fucking stop.
Sounds like it's a good thing Bernie pushed for the caucuses to collect and report more data than they did last time, otherwise these inconsistencies and problems might not have been spotted!
Good. Declare victory, provide documentation, move on.
(Ryan Grim is a journalist and author)
Iowa is a great measure for Sanders' ability to attract non-white and minority voters. And not because of a simple entrance/exit vote, that's just the final result. It's what went into this result that makes it impressive. A well covered (if you care to look at it) effort by leftists activists, both white and non-white, to reach out to non-white communities, talk to them about both the issues and Bernie, getting them excited about the campaign, getting them registered, actually physically getting them to their caucus locations so they can participate.
It's an actual documented effort on the ground that massively paid fruit in actual votes. I'm not surprised that some people will be dismissive of it, but they're flat out wrong.
Yet he has 28% among Hispanic voters.
And also fuck man who cares about first choice percentages at this point? "Extreme" gender gap notwithstanding, Sanders doesn't really differ from any non-Biden candidate in this poll that was held before we got the Iowa results. it's all not enough to base anything on.
Look if it weren’t for minority rule the Republican Party would cease to exist.
(<-- posting from another extremely white state)
Now it makes sense to me why Warren won't win. We don't deserve her
OFA proved ground game with smart media wins. If Bernie learned that lesson it makes him rise significantly in my already good esteem.
I've seen a couple pollsters suggest that the kerfuffle with the satellite caucuses is probably having some weird effects. By all indicators, Sanders's team was the only one who devoted any real effort to them, so rather than being broadly similar to the overall results of the rest of Iowa as expected, they were like, 95% for Sanders. This compounds with the weird rules for them and the IDP giving them significantly more SDEs than expected, and the distribution of them being lopsided. And now doing a sanity correction of that after the fact would... cause the conspiracy theorists to go into super duper ultra overdrive.
Also, does that mean we're going to say that Buttigieg has an amazing ground game too? Especially since he beat his expected numbers all the more? Biden's ground game certainly seems... in trouble at any rate, to put it mildly.
I respect that he made a really strong effort there, yay Bernie and all.
But the political dynamics in an extremely white state with a POC population small enough to fit in a bathtub is not, in itself, this amazing proof of concept. If he can replicate this in South Carolina? Cool, I'll be convinced he's onto something. But this is a single data point in a highly irregular state backed by a a poll with a sample size of a couple hundred.
It's hard to even imagine the type of person who would volunteer for the Biden campaign. My hacky imagination is just coming up with beautiful soft white children who yearn to be called "champ" by an old man.
This feels realy weird to me because it comes across in such a way that it risks discounting the agency of POC because they're a smaller minority of the population than seen in other states? I know that's not your intent, but I worry it risks coming around to that if we're not careful with the logic
Like with Zoom's thing about the extremely white state being similar to that; it risks glossing over the choices of POC because they aren't sufficiently numerous compared to white folks.
People who hate Trump.
People who liked Obama.
People who Warren and Sanders scare the living shit out of.
I think that about covers it.