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The Democratic Primaries

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    .
    Butters wrote: »
    Im actually OK with Warren's name not being tied into any of this mess at all.

    Let her go out, do her campaigning, talk to the people, and stay away from the fray of it all.

    Bernie and Pete's campaigns, and even Bidens to an extent, are having to devote personpower and resources to this giant clusterfuck, both in contacting the DNC and IDP and the press requests and probably even internal campaign meetings and memos and conflagrations.

    Meanwhile, all that energy and time that is being spent, all those people that are doing that, Warren has those same people and energy focused on NH and SC and elsewhere.

    So, I'm ok with her not getting any press. Not all attention is good attention.

    I'm feeling pretty bad about Warren now. It looks like media misogyny succeeded in taking her down by weaponizing her disagreement with Bernie. Now with her polling and funding down she has no hope of recovery because Bernieland thinks she's this wicked liar

    I dont think Warren is out yet, but she was the one who weaponized the argument and it backfired, it was 100% an unforced error.

    What are you even talking about?

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    YamiB.YamiB. Registered User regular
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    .
    Butters wrote: »
    Im actually OK with Warren's name not being tied into any of this mess at all.

    Let her go out, do her campaigning, talk to the people, and stay away from the fray of it all.

    Bernie and Pete's campaigns, and even Bidens to an extent, are having to devote personpower and resources to this giant clusterfuck, both in contacting the DNC and IDP and the press requests and probably even internal campaign meetings and memos and conflagrations.

    Meanwhile, all that energy and time that is being spent, all those people that are doing that, Warren has those same people and energy focused on NH and SC and elsewhere.

    So, I'm ok with her not getting any press. Not all attention is good attention.

    I'm feeling pretty bad about Warren now. It looks like media misogyny succeeded in taking her down by weaponizing her disagreement with Bernie. Now with her polling and funding down she has no hope of recovery because Bernieland thinks she's this wicked liar

    I dont think Warren is out yet, but she was the one who weaponized the argument and it backfired, it was 100% an unforced error.

    I disagree, that's pretty much assuming that CNN's sourcing of the story was a situation where her team fed them the story. Which, y'know, wicked liar etc. She maybe shouldn't have given it the time of day when everyone was looking to get a quote from her on it, but Bernie also probably shouldn't say wack stuff, so here we are.

    It was a meeting with two people so the information had to have come from one of two people. I'm not sure what the wack stuff you're referring to is.

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    ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    I think it does speak to a larger problem, how does a candidate keep their state campaigns in order? It sounds from the reporting that they knew there was a problem and sent someone from the Boston HQ to fix things, but it didn't help. The reporting doesn't indicate Warren herself knew about the situation beforehand, but having minority staffers leave right before the Nevada caucus isn't a good look. This just came out so I don't think she's addressed it yet

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    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited February 2020


    Pager reports for Bloomberg



    So apparently it's Buttigieg's campaign getting upset over the Satellites

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    .
    Butters wrote: »
    Im actually OK with Warren's name not being tied into any of this mess at all.

    Let her go out, do her campaigning, talk to the people, and stay away from the fray of it all.

    Bernie and Pete's campaigns, and even Bidens to an extent, are having to devote personpower and resources to this giant clusterfuck, both in contacting the DNC and IDP and the press requests and probably even internal campaign meetings and memos and conflagrations.

    Meanwhile, all that energy and time that is being spent, all those people that are doing that, Warren has those same people and energy focused on NH and SC and elsewhere.

    So, I'm ok with her not getting any press. Not all attention is good attention.

    I'm feeling pretty bad about Warren now. It looks like media misogyny succeeded in taking her down by weaponizing her disagreement with Bernie. Now with her polling and funding down she has no hope of recovery because Bernieland thinks she's this wicked liar

    I dont think Warren is out yet, but she was the one who weaponized the argument and it backfired, it was 100% an unforced error.

    I disagree, that's pretty much assuming that CNN's sourcing of the story was a situation where her team fed them the story. Which, y'know, wicked liar etc. She maybe shouldn't have given it the time of day when everyone was looking to get a quote from her on it, but Bernie also probably shouldn't say wack stuff, so here we are.

    This is the worst story because all it does is help candidates that aren't Sanders or Warren and neither side has any hope of possibly convincing the other.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    YamiB. wrote: »
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    .
    Butters wrote: »
    Im actually OK with Warren's name not being tied into any of this mess at all.

    Let her go out, do her campaigning, talk to the people, and stay away from the fray of it all.

    Bernie and Pete's campaigns, and even Bidens to an extent, are having to devote personpower and resources to this giant clusterfuck, both in contacting the DNC and IDP and the press requests and probably even internal campaign meetings and memos and conflagrations.

    Meanwhile, all that energy and time that is being spent, all those people that are doing that, Warren has those same people and energy focused on NH and SC and elsewhere.

    So, I'm ok with her not getting any press. Not all attention is good attention.

    I'm feeling pretty bad about Warren now. It looks like media misogyny succeeded in taking her down by weaponizing her disagreement with Bernie. Now with her polling and funding down she has no hope of recovery because Bernieland thinks she's this wicked liar

    I dont think Warren is out yet, but she was the one who weaponized the argument and it backfired, it was 100% an unforced error.

    I disagree, that's pretty much assuming that CNN's sourcing of the story was a situation where her team fed them the story. Which, y'know, wicked liar etc. She maybe shouldn't have given it the time of day when everyone was looking to get a quote from her on it, but Bernie also probably shouldn't say wack stuff, so here we are.

    It was a meeting with two people so the information had to have come from one of two people. I'm not sure what the wack stuff you're referring to is.

    It was, by all accounts, a well known story in Democratic circles because she talked about it bothering her (off the record) a fair amount. Someone then went on the record. We don't know who (it was Biden).

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Does anyone have a link to exit/entrance poll crosstabs? I want to check something.

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    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited February 2020


    Austin is a writer and podcaster at Waypoint/Vice and former Waypoint EiC

    Grim is Intercept


    Segment is about how Sanders team worked to reach out to traditionally ignored groups when it came to canvassing.



    EDIT: Pardon the edits, my OCD is going off bad and I'm sort of sucking at practicing my ERP right now

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/tylerpage r/status/1225494446206279686

    Pager reports for Bloomberg



    So apparently it's Buttigieg's campaign getting upset over the Satellites

    Nate Cohn of the NYT said that the reason their needle was all fucked up in regards to the satellites is because the IDP was interpreting the rules for it very differently than they were, so it's quite a bit misleading to say that Buttigieg's campaign is upset over it when the actual situation is that EVERYBODY is confused about what the rules were supposed to be.

    ztrEPtD.gif
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    ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    I continue to be surprised that Yang is still in the race. I get the UBI thing, I really do, although I don't think the US is really to the point where it would or could be successfully implemented, but most of the other things that come out of his mouth sound bonkers to me.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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    ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    I continue to be surprised that Yang is still in the race. I get the UBI thing, I really do, although I don't think the US is really to the point where it would or could be successfully implemented, but most of the other things that come out of his mouth sound bonkers to me.

    It's looking that he might endorse Bernie after NH unless he does really well

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    durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    I continue to be surprised that Yang is still in the race. I get the UBI thing, I really do, although I don't think the US is really to the point where it would or could be successfully implemented, but most of the other things that come out of his mouth sound bonkers to me.

    I think most folks, even people who are invested enough to vote in primaries, are not really applying super strict standards to who they support so long as they're under a general umbrella of "a Democratic candidate". They're mostly going off a general feeling of affinity or a couple policy points they remember thinking were good. I think that's how you get 2nd/3rd choices that seem confusing to a lot of us in this thread.

    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    I continue to be surprised that Yang is still in the race. I get the UBI thing, I really do, although I don't think the US is really to the point where it would or could be successfully implemented, but most of the other things that come out of his mouth sound bonkers to me.

    There's a strong desire in some people for a kind of anti-politics. Those people are Yang supporters. In previous elections they were probably supporters of outside the mainstream candidates who would upset politics and install some real change: Trump, Sanders, Kucinich, Paul, Perot and the like. Literally no ideology except NOT POLITICS, MAN.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Quid wrote: »
    Madican wrote: »
    This thread keeps sprouting several hundred new posts every time I look away and yet the topic doesn't look like it's really changed at all. And this is just the start of the primaries

    I've taken to just scrolling through and reading the highlights. Mods can suffer through reading everything. The poor, poor mods.

    With the thread as vituperative and fast moving as it’s been and with the deluge of reports created as a result its becoming clear that this thread with this particular selection of posters may simply be too time consuming and contentious to moderate.

    If you guys want the thread to go away, except for maybe special occasions, keep posting like you’ve been doing.

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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Zavian wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    I continue to be surprised that Yang is still in the race. I get the UBI thing, I really do, although I don't think the US is really to the point where it would or could be successfully implemented, but most of the other things that come out of his mouth sound bonkers to me.

    It's looking that he might endorse Bernie after NH unless he does really well

    Bernie's probably the best bet of pushing the country left enough to start making UBI palatable to people, so that seems sensible.

    Stabbity_Style.png
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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    tbh, I don't honestly care who Yang endorses, but if he endorses someone viable, it'd still be a good thing because his followers are the most likely to pack up and go home.

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    AnsagoAnsago Formerly QuarterMaster Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »


    Austin is a writer and podcaster at Waypoint/Vice and former Waypoint EiC

    Grim is Intercept


    Segment is about how Sanders team worked to reach out to traditionally ignored groups when it came to canvassing.



    EDIT: Pardon the edits, my OCD is going off bad and I'm sort of sucking at practicing my ERP right now

    Warren is still my preference, but I gotta say it seems like Bernie's folks are doing a hell of a job at getting as many people out to vote as possible and that is awesome.

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    ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    Bogart wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Madican wrote: »
    This thread keeps sprouting several hundred new posts every time I look away and yet the topic doesn't look like it's really changed at all. And this is just the start of the primaries

    I've taken to just scrolling through and reading the highlights. Mods can suffer through reading everything. The poor, poor mods.

    With the thread as vituperative and fast moving as it’s been and with the deluge of reports created as a result its becoming clear that this thread with this particular selection of posters may simply be too time consuming and contentious to moderate.

    If you guys want the thread to go away, except for maybe special occasions, keep posting like you’ve been doing.

    I appreciate the mods doing what they can. Compared to other internet forums with primary threads I've been following, I've found this one rather civil and respectful. I also never posted in D&D much before the primary, but have enjoyed the discourse so far and would hope this thread remains open

    Zavian on
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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Ansago wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »


    Austin is a writer and podcaster at Waypoint/Vice and former Waypoint EiC

    Grim is Intercept


    Segment is about how Sanders team worked to reach out to traditionally ignored groups when it came to canvassing.



    EDIT: Pardon the edits, my OCD is going off bad and I'm sort of sucking at practicing my ERP right now

    Warren is still my preference, but I gotta say it seems like Bernie's folks are doing a hell of a job at getting as many people out to vote as possible and that is awesome.

    Warren and Bernie are 1a and 1b for me anyway. Like, I'd prefer Warren, I think she has a better message personally, but I'd be fucking stoked to have either. So it's a bummer that Warren isn't doing as well, but it's still rad as hell that Bernie's doing great.

    Stabbity_Style.png
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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    ceres wrote: »
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    I continue to be surprised that Yang is still in the race. I get the UBI thing, I really do, although I don't think the US is really to the point where it would or could be successfully implemented, but most of the other things that come out of his mouth sound bonkers to me.

    I feel on one hand Yang is just going to run till Super Tuesday or just beyond
    On the other I feel The US seriously needs to look at UBI and the job apoc is coming and we have done little to work past it

    Brainleech on
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    QanamilQanamil x Registered User regular
    Put me in the same bucket. Warren is preferable to me, and I get ornery about some of the misrepresentation going on, but I will be very happy to pull the lever for Sanders.

    Incidentally, finally had a canvasser come by today. I was out, but they left a pretty decent, large flyer for Sanders and I'm just glad dems are getting out here in SC with the few weeks we have left.

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    I want to make a “the consultant’s path to winning” joke but that’s Pete...Yang occupies the next circle over in the “blockchain voting y’all” part of the diagram

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    ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Brainleech wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    I continue to be surprised that Yang is still in the race. I get the UBI thing, I really do, although I don't think the US is really to the point where it would or could be successfully implemented, but most of the other things that come out of his mouth sound bonkers to me.

    I feel on one hand Yang is just going to run till Super Tuesday or just beyond
    On the other I feel The US seriously needs to look at UBI and the job apoc is coming and we have done little to work past it

    We absolutely need it and likely soon, I just don't think as a country people are amenable enough to having the conversation at all and his stuff about human-based capitalism is collar-pulling even taken in good faith. Which is a shame.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    I continue to be surprised that Yang is still in the race. I get the UBI thing, I really do, although I don't think the US is really to the point where it would or could be successfully implemented, but most of the other things that come out of his mouth sound bonkers to me.

    I feel on one hand Yang is just going to run till Super Tuesday or just beyond
    On the other I feel The US seriously needs to look at UBI and the job apoc is coming and we have done little to work past it

    We absolutely need it and likely soon, I just don't think as a country people are amenable enough to having the conversation at all and his stuff about human-based capitalism is collar-pulling even taken in good faith. Which is a shame.

    It's kind of stunning that nobody on the left has coined Social Security For All

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    I mean we already have that. It's called Social Security.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    I continue to be surprised that Yang is still in the race. I get the UBI thing, I really do, although I don't think the US is really to the point where it would or could be successfully implemented, but most of the other things that come out of his mouth sound bonkers to me.

    I feel on one hand Yang is just going to run till Super Tuesday or just beyond
    On the other I feel The US seriously needs to look at UBI and the job apoc is coming and we have done little to work past it

    We absolutely need it and likely soon, I just don't think as a country people are amenable enough to having the conversation at all and his stuff about human-based capitalism is collar-pulling even taken in good faith. Which is a shame.

    It's kind of stunning that nobody on the left has coined Social Security For All

    ....

    On one hand, damn you for putting such a simple, easy to sell thought in my head.

    On the other hand, we all assume (hah) we're getting social security anyways, so maybe that wouldn't sell well.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    I continue to be surprised that Yang is still in the race. I get the UBI thing, I really do, although I don't think the US is really to the point where it would or could be successfully implemented, but most of the other things that come out of his mouth sound bonkers to me.

    I feel on one hand Yang is just going to run till Super Tuesday or just beyond
    On the other I feel The US seriously needs to look at UBI and the job apoc is coming and we have done little to work past it

    We absolutely need it and likely soon, I just don't think as a country people are amenable enough to having the conversation at all and his stuff about human-based capitalism is collar-pulling even taken in good faith. Which is a shame.

    It's kind of stunning that nobody on the left has coined Social Security For All

    ....

    On one hand, damn you for putting such a simple, easy to sell thought in my head.

    On the other hand, we all assume (hah) we're getting social security anyways, so maybe that wouldn't sell well.

    My experience when talking about Social Security is that a lot of people seem very invested in the idea that it's not just the government giving you money because you put that money in yourself or something.

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    I mean we already have that. It's called Social Security.

    I mean, it's basically the same situation Medicare is in and we've got Medicare for All. Taking a limited program for a small group of people and making it for everyone, at least in broad strokes.

    Stabbity_Style.png
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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular


    what are you talking about nate silver was always good

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    Paste Magazine journalist with some Bloomberg clips.

    There is no way the Democrats endorsing or working for Bloomberg genuinely believe this can stand a chance if he’s the last establishment figure standing against Bernie or Warren. They just have to be in it for the paycheck, because the other option is that they think this is a good candidate.


    He runs good ads, but man I just don’t see this guy standing up to scrutiny.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Athenor wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Yang's fired a bunch of staffers.

    I continue to be surprised that Yang is still in the race. I get the UBI thing, I really do, although I don't think the US is really to the point where it would or could be successfully implemented, but most of the other things that come out of his mouth sound bonkers to me.

    I feel on one hand Yang is just going to run till Super Tuesday or just beyond
    On the other I feel The US seriously needs to look at UBI and the job apoc is coming and we have done little to work past it

    We absolutely need it and likely soon, I just don't think as a country people are amenable enough to having the conversation at all and his stuff about human-based capitalism is collar-pulling even taken in good faith. Which is a shame.

    It's kind of stunning that nobody on the left has coined Social Security For All

    ....

    On one hand, damn you for putting such a simple, easy to sell thought in my head.

    On the other hand, we all assume (hah) we're getting social security anyways, so maybe that wouldn't sell well.

    My experience when talking about Social Security is that a lot of people seem very invested in the idea that it's not just the government giving you money because you put that money in yourself or something.

    yeah, this is how a lot of conservatives rationalize it, they view it as a savings account that they're paying into for themselves, even though it absolutely does not work that way

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    When your model is too twitchy.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    When your model is too twitchy.

    This is remindinge of the House results in 2018

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    Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »


    what are you talking about nate silver was always good

    Nate Gold.

    I don’t fully expect that to hold up and my biggest concern is that Buttigieg surges in NH and Biden comes back from oblivion due to Bernie not getting a big NH bump, but those two things seem pretty unlikely so things could be way worse.

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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular

    Okay, this is what I thought I saw between the lines elsewhere, but no one was talking about it, and it wasn't explicit.

    Iowa is not the country, but Warren did worse than Buttigieg with non-whites. She can't win like that.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Paste Magazine journalist with some Bloomberg clips.

    There is no way the Democrats endorsing or working for Bloomberg genuinely believe this can stand a chance if he’s the last establishment figure standing against Bernie or Warren. They just have to be in it for the paycheck, because the other option is that they think this is a good candidate.


    He runs good ads, but man I just don’t see this guy standing up to scrutiny.

    Bloomberg is a Republican who bought his way onto the Democratic stage.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I want to see bloomberg crash and burn at tomorrow's debate, which will happen without final iowa results

    PNk1Ml4.png
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    I want to see bloomberg crash and burn at tomorrow's debate, which will happen without final iowa results

    Never underestimate the media's willingness to carry water for billionaires.

This discussion has been closed.