yeah. I think the big surprise is their comment about the other formats being things they're just keeping an eye on for now in the face of the modern 87% companion meta
They even acknowledged they might change the companion rule, which is kind of admitting it's a failure as created.
The other interesting thing about that is how easy it would be. Nothing on the cards says how the mechanic works, just what the condition is to have them and the fact that you can cast it once per game.
While obviously they think changing the companion rule is within the realm of possibility, I don't like tying the argument to "the rules aren't on the card". Most rules aren't spelled out on the cards, that doesn't make it "easy" to change them. Basically no cards refer to the stack, but that wouldn't make it "easy" to put a three-objects-on-the-stack limit.
It's relatively easier to change Companion because there aren't that many cards with it, not because of whether or not the entire rules text of companion is printed on the card.
While fair this wouldn't be unprecedented. Even ignoring sweeping rules updates like 6th edition and M10, isolated mechanics have been tweaked like this in the past. Phasing and the Legend/Planeswalker rule are the two that come to mind immediately, and have actually done so a couple of times in their respective lifetimes.
Not a month after they came out, mind.
I agree, it's not unprecedented. I think changing the companion rules is decently likely to happen, if nothing else to make the playerbase happy even if the meta shakes out less companion-heavy than expected. I just specifically don't like the argument of "it's not on the card, therefore they can change it easily", since things don't have to be written out on the card to be very difficult to change. (And, technically, they've done more *on-card* errata recently with Ajani's Pridemate, T5feri, and Hostage Taker, but that's not really relevant)
I ate an engineer
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
What could they change about Companion to make it more balanced? Having to bin a card from your opening hand?
I should just mainboard Soul-Guide Lantern at this point.
I happened across this guy's anti meta deck over the weekend and really wanna build it and run it as a main line deck. Basically it's a mono green "ramp to Karn" deck that cherry picks artifacts and enchantments to shut down all the most popular shit.
There's a deck circulating that just spams cycle cards until it finds a zenith flare and copies it for maximum burn. It's even more boring than actually playing your creatures for cycling value.
With standard it's current state, I've been playing a lot more limited and Ikoria limited is certainly interesting. Part of it is the human drafting but part of it is Ikora itself and how powerful and synergistic certain decks can be.
Here's my last deck and while it only went 6-3, all of those 6 wins felt so unfair that my opponents barely had a chance.
Deck
3 Frost Lynx
3 Of One Mind
1 Ominous Seas
1 Pouncing Shoreshark
1 Shark Typhoon
4 Startling Development
1 Cathartic Reunion
1 Drannith Stinger
1 Fire Prophecy
2 Forbidden Friendship
1 Go for Blood
2 Prickly Marmoset
1 Reptilian Reflection
3 Spelleater Wolverine
1 Sprite Dragon
1 Zagoth Triome
7 Island
6 Mountain
The only times it lost was a game where all of my mountains were in the bottom 15 cards of my deck and to 2 very strong companion decks that had the perfect combat trick to survive as I swung for lethal and let them win on the crackback. What I think makes this deck interesting is that it's mostly commons, it runs only 1 rare and 3 uncommons in its colors. Cycling 1 and cheap spells is really good and even if your pay offs are only spell-eater wolverines and prickly marmosets, that's enough.
Anyone have other contenters for tier 1 limited decks? I'd put R/U spells, R/W cycling, G/B graveyard and companions as the top tier decks and am curious if people have found other decks that can compete with those. Anyone have a hot draft deck they'd like to share?
I should just mainboard Soul-Guide Lantern at this point.
I happened across this guy's anti meta deck over the weekend and really wanna build it and run it as a main line deck. Basically it's a mono green "ramp to Karn" deck that cherry picks artifacts and enchantments to shut down all the most popular shit.
I played a fairly close game and was about to play Snapdax for the win, when my opponent countered with Voracious Greatshark. I don't know if he remembered that I had Hushbringer under a mutation on the board. I sure had forgotten about it...
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
I played a fairly close game and was about to play Snapdax for the win, when my opponent countered with Voracious Greatshark. I don't know if he remembered that I had Hushbringer under a mutation on the board. I sure had forgotten about it...
I think that's what happened to one of my opponents, except they played Gyruda into it 8-)
It's ripping up plat 2, at least. As long as I am getting the first turn deathtoucher and then mutating onto them by turn 3 it quickly gets out of hand (Porcuparrot + Deathtouch is fun). If it manages to lock up the board and I can keep a Parcelbeast up it can go really long too, I have no idea what to do with the manabase, though:
Any recommendations?
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
It's ripping up plat 2, at least. As long as I am getting the first turn deathtoucher and then mutating onto them by turn 3 it quickly gets out of hand (Porcuparrot + Deathtouch is fun). If it manages to lock up the board and I can keep a Parcelbeast up it can go really long too, I have no idea what to do with the manabase, though:
Any recommendations?
I'd probably cut black entirely
Vampire of the Dark Moon is good but she's not go into a 4th color good
It's ripping up plat 2, at least. As long as I am getting the first turn deathtoucher and then mutating onto them by turn 3 it quickly gets out of hand (Porcuparrot + Deathtouch is fun). If it manages to lock up the board and I can keep a Parcelbeast up it can go really long too, I have no idea what to do with the manabase, though:
Any recommendations?
I'd probably cut black entirely
Vampire of the Dark Moon is good but she's not go into a 4th color good
A little bit of lifelink goes a long way (especially if she ends up getting mutated onto by Gemrazer or Illuna), but there might be something in green that could fill that instead?
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
It's ripping up plat 2, at least. As long as I am getting the first turn deathtoucher and then mutating onto them by turn 3 it quickly gets out of hand (Porcuparrot + Deathtouch is fun). If it manages to lock up the board and I can keep a Parcelbeast up it can go really long too, I have no idea what to do with the manabase, though:
Any recommendations?
I'd probably cut black entirely
Vampire of the Dark Moon is good but she's not go into a 4th color good
A little bit of lifelink goes a long way (especially if she ends up getting mutated onto by Gemrazer or Illuna), but there might be something in green that could fill that instead?
lifelink is p much exclusively in white/black. and shadowspear
if it's that important just add a shadowspear
fuck gendered marketing
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Essence Symbiote can net you a fair amount of life and works as a Mutate target; Arbor Grazer ramps a bit and helps block, which is often as good as gaining life.
It's ripping up plat 2, at least. As long as I am getting the first turn deathtoucher and then mutating onto them by turn 3 it quickly gets out of hand (Porcuparrot + Deathtouch is fun). If it manages to lock up the board and I can keep a Parcelbeast up it can go really long too, I have no idea what to do with the manabase, though:
Any recommendations?
I'd probably cut black entirely
Vampire of the Dark Moon is good but she's not go into a 4th color good
A little bit of lifelink goes a long way (especially if she ends up getting mutated onto by Gemrazer or Illuna), but there might be something in green that could fill that instead?
Bond of Flourishing, helps tutor for lands or creatures and life gain.
Hm, gonna give it a shot with the grazers, and maybe 1 of shadowspear? Was underwhelmed with Essence Symbiote but that was an earlier version of the deck.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
This is a very stupid deck but very fun when everything lines up
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I should just mainboard Soul-Guide Lantern at this point.
I actually have been, in my Lurrus Abzan midrange deck. It performs very well. Unfortunately, the deck loses very hard to Lukka Agent combo, if they have a Teferi in play (always, it seems)
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I just concede if I see lurrus because losing to that cycling bullshit is the most frustrating fucking thing.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I tweaked the deck quite a bit and I'm loving it.
Ping ping ping life gain life gain ping ping ping
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I've got a B/G mutate deck that makes opponents sac everything. If anyone can see room for improvement I'll take it. Mirror shields for deathtouch counters and extra hexproof. Just need to ramp into 4/5 mana to make the sacs happen. Not sure what to put in the zagoth mamba slot, and have murder in case I can't ramp up/get my lands. Not sure if I should add dual/tap lands, as I usually need what ever I can get when I can.
Did you give any thought to Insatiable Hemophage? A little bit of reach to close out games comes in handy and 2B is a cheap mutate cost (plus it's a 3/3 deathrouch so it's a solid first upgrade to your base critters). You can also run a Boneyard Lurker or two if you want recursion although I'm not sure where it'd go.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Swap out murder for the Knight that can kill PWalkers and Creatures
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Did you give any thought to Insatiable Hemophage? A little bit of reach to close out games comes in handy and 2B is a cheap mutate cost (plus it's a 3/3 deathrouch so it's a solid first upgrade to your base critters). You can also run a Boneyard Lurker or two if you want recursion although I'm not sure where it'd go.
I had Hemophage in there originally when it was a more scattered deck, removed it to focus more on the sacs and mutate targets I think. Don't think I've had too much of a need to get creatures back, if i can get the hexproof on them, which is why I added the mirror shields.
Get rid of the mirror shields and you can run Umori.
I have the mirror shields so my vertical mutate stack doesn't die to one removal spell etc.
I'll add back in the Murderous Riders, and think about Umori, but not sure it really helps me. The hexproof shields help a bunch. I might be able to replace the Mirror Shields with Barkhide Troll, or maybe just hope on the Paradise Druids. I'm mostly just not sure what to do with the 1 drop slot besides the egg.
Crystalline Giant maybe? Fits Umori, can get deathtouch. It can win games itself if you dont get the combo off.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Put the murderous riders in anyway, it'll be a while before paper is a thing again and unless you are playing in official, sanctioned stuff you can just use proxies.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Put the murderous riders in anyway, it'll be a while before paper is a thing again and unless you are playing in official, sanctioned stuff you can just use proxies.
Yeah in my state "indoors entertainment facilities" (incl game stores) won't be open until the end of June at the earliest; that's Core 2021 preview season by my count.
I think Ikoria down the road is going to be one of the more expensive sets for singles for a few cards. There are going to be WAAAAY less cards in the wild because people arent drafting at stores, and people wont invest in standard if they cant play it.
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I agree, it's not unprecedented. I think changing the companion rules is decently likely to happen, if nothing else to make the playerbase happy even if the meta shakes out less companion-heavy than expected. I just specifically don't like the argument of "it's not on the card, therefore they can change it easily", since things don't have to be written out on the card to be very difficult to change. (And, technically, they've done more *on-card* errata recently with Ajani's Pridemate, T5feri, and Hostage Taker, but that's not really relevant)
The suggestion I've seen is draw 6. They absolutely wouldn't let companion give a free discard, that would be broken.
I was thinking draw 7 put 1 on the bottom, but just draw one less is probably better.
I happened across this guy's anti meta deck over the weekend and really wanna build it and run it as a main line deck. Basically it's a mono green "ramp to Karn" deck that cherry picks artifacts and enchantments to shut down all the most popular shit.
Though one was really odd where they spend the whole match cycling and never put a Creature down.
They were looking for a Zenith Flare and never found it?
That’s how the normal cycling deck works.
This is a variant that doesn’t bother with playing creatures in order to run more off-color cycling
Here's my last deck and while it only went 6-3, all of those 6 wins felt so unfair that my opponents barely had a chance.
3 Frost Lynx
3 Of One Mind
1 Ominous Seas
1 Pouncing Shoreshark
1 Shark Typhoon
4 Startling Development
1 Cathartic Reunion
1 Drannith Stinger
1 Fire Prophecy
2 Forbidden Friendship
1 Go for Blood
2 Prickly Marmoset
1 Reptilian Reflection
3 Spelleater Wolverine
1 Sprite Dragon
1 Zagoth Triome
7 Island
6 Mountain
The only times it lost was a game where all of my mountains were in the bottom 15 cards of my deck and to 2 very strong companion decks that had the perfect combat trick to survive as I swung for lethal and let them win on the crackback. What I think makes this deck interesting is that it's mostly commons, it runs only 1 rare and 3 uncommons in its colors. Cycling 1 and cheap spells is really good and even if your pay offs are only spell-eater wolverines and prickly marmosets, that's enough.
Anyone have other contenters for tier 1 limited decks? I'd put R/U spells, R/W cycling, G/B graveyard and companions as the top tier decks and am curious if people have found other decks that can compete with those. Anyone have a hot draft deck they'd like to share?
Seems nice. I'll definitely give that a go.
Did anyone do a mono white version?
oh interesting. I haven't run into the "all in zenith flare" deck then
I think that's what happened to one of my opponents, except they played Gyruda into it 8-)
It's ripping up plat 2, at least. As long as I am getting the first turn deathtoucher and then mutating onto them by turn 3 it quickly gets out of hand (Porcuparrot + Deathtouch is fun). If it manages to lock up the board and I can keep a Parcelbeast up it can go really long too, I have no idea what to do with the manabase, though:
Any recommendations?
I'd probably cut black entirely
Vampire of the Dark Moon is good but she's not go into a 4th color good
A little bit of lifelink goes a long way (especially if she ends up getting mutated onto by Gemrazer or Illuna), but there might be something in green that could fill that instead?
lifelink is p much exclusively in white/black. and shadowspear
if it's that important just add a shadowspear
Bond of Flourishing, helps tutor for lands or creatures and life gain.
This is a very stupid deck but very fun when everything lines up
I actually have been, in my Lurrus Abzan midrange deck. It performs very well. Unfortunately, the deck loses very hard to Lukka Agent combo, if they have a Teferi in play (always, it seems)
Ping ping ping life gain life gain ping ping ping
Plus it has Lifelink!
And is a non-Human.
I had Hemophage in there originally when it was a more scattered deck, removed it to focus more on the sacs and mutate targets I think. Don't think I've had too much of a need to get creatures back, if i can get the hexproof on them, which is why I added the mirror shields.
I took out the murderous riders I had, because I only had 2, and went for what was cheaper in paper in case I wanted to build/buy the physical deck.
I have the mirror shields so my vertical mutate stack doesn't die to one removal spell etc.
I'll add back in the Murderous Riders, and think about Umori, but not sure it really helps me. The hexproof shields help a bunch. I might be able to replace the Mirror Shields with Barkhide Troll, or maybe just hope on the Paradise Druids. I'm mostly just not sure what to do with the 1 drop slot besides the egg.
Also, thank you guys a bunch.
Yeah in my state "indoors entertainment facilities" (incl game stores) won't be open until the end of June at the earliest; that's Core 2021 preview season by my count.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
I think this is the biggest I've ever managed to get a board since my old Orochi Hatcheri+Coat of Arms deck back in the day.