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American Election 2020: Definitely a Thing That is Happening

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Heir wrote: »
    FWIW, Harris has had a pretty liberal voting record since becoming a senator, no?

    She does, yes.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Heir wrote: »
    FWIW, Harris has had a pretty liberal voting record since becoming a senator, no?

    She does, yes.

    She also had a fairly progressive platform in the primary. A step behind Sanders/Warren, but still something I'd have been happy with.

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    Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Best of the potential picks is Warren -> Harris -> Abrams, tbh.

    Big, big concern with a Warren VP slot is her age. The last thing that Biden needs is a VP that is also over the 70 line. I don't think that Warren makes the cut for that, sorry.

    From everything I read, it's a few different things. Basically Biden's camp is keenly aware that the Trump Campaign is going to paint voting for Biden as voting for his VP given his age. Her age is another concern. Also Biden apparently is looking for someone like he was to Obama, basically a trusted friend there to help and not someone only interested in the job as a stepping stone for future political gain.

    That's why you have folks like Rice coming up since she's a close friend to Biden.

    Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
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    MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Harris has some problematic stuff in her past around trans rights. I've also heard... unsubstantiated stuff, that I will not repeat here, from friends in SF government positions,(nothing salacious), that make me wary of her.

    But if your plan is to start prosecuting folks for what they did under the Trump admin, you want her. So if they pick Harris, I am personally taking that as a sign they are going to go after people.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Harris has some problematic stuff in her past around trans rights. I've also heard... unsubstantiated stuff, that I will not repeat here, from friends in SF government positions,(nothing salacious), that make me wary of her.

    But if your plan is to start prosecuting folks for what they did under the Trump admin, you want her. So if they pick Harris, I am personally taking that as a sign they are going to go after people.

    Is it common for the VP to be involved in an investigation? Is it ... a good idea for your 2IC to be in charge of investigating your predecessors?

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Yeah that will be up to AG. Harris is the most likely pick because she's the most prominent black woman in the party who wants the job (she's not Michelle Obama, in other words). And the party knows that black women are the most loyal group to the party and would like to reward that. Anything else is largely overthinking it.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Harris has some problematic stuff in her past around trans rights. I've also heard... unsubstantiated stuff, that I will not repeat here, from friends in SF government positions,(nothing salacious), that make me wary of her.

    But if your plan is to start prosecuting folks for what they did under the Trump admin, you want her. So if they pick Harris, I am personally taking that as a sign they are going to go after people.

    Is it common for the VP to be involved in an investigation? Is it ... a good idea for your 2IC to be in charge of investigating your predecessors?

    She won't be involved specifically (that will be the AG), but she will be the administration mouthpiece on it.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    It's also common practice for the job of the veep to be the attack dog who says the things the president(ial candidate) wants a little distance from. So I could imagine Biden being slightly above the fray while Harris goes all wrath of god on Trump and his flunkies.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I get my information on US politics from The West Wing, but I remember the VP in that saying "Last time I checked, my only constitutional obligation was to have a pulse."
    So I think there's a lot of leeway on exactly what the VP does.
    A question I'd ask is what things is a VP specifically not allowed to do (and then find out that Pence has done at least two of them).

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    Aside from the decisive Senate vote, probably the most important "powers" a VP has are the soft ones, yeah--their share of the bully pulpit, presumed leadership role in their party after the current president finishes their term(s). Don't discount those, though, they do matter.

    From the perspective of the whole "selecting the future leader of the Democratic party" thing, I like Harris a lot. I would prefer Warren if not for her age, and if I didn't think this was such an important moment for black representation in the highest levels of government. But those being the case, Harris would certainly be my favored selection. She's relatively young, her positions are progressive, she goes after the GOP aggressively (super important to me), and she's good on camera, so I think she should play well with the kind of shallow low-information voters who swing elections.

    My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Yeah, I'm starting to come around on this.

    Let Harris (and Biden) be the faces on camera, and let Warren be the magnificent policy wonk with a plan for everything who stays out of the spotlight because too many people in this country can't stand being confronted with someone who's actually smart because it reminds them how stupid and ignorant they are.

    ... I may have some lingering issues from the primary. Or the Obama administration, take your pick.

    (Yes you DO want someone exceptional for these jobs, someone (far) better than average, because these are HARD (and important!) JOBS. I'm sure as hell not qualified, and that's if I wanted the responsibility, which I absolutely fucking do not. We've seen what happens when you fill those positions with people who are exactly as dumb and incompetent as their base, just luckier and better connected, and it's been a disaster from top to bottom. These are jobs for which you want the best people you can find, in your country if not the entire planet.)

    I've had it with cronies and donors, fuckups and failsons. Bring on the "elites". We're gonna need them to get us out of this mess.

    Commander Zoom on
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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Yeah, I'm starting to come around on this.

    Let Harris (and Biden) be the faces on camera, and let Warren be the magnificent policy wonk with a plan for everything who stays out of the spotlight because too many people in this country can't stand being confronted with someone who's actually smart because it reminds them how stupid and ignorant they are.

    ... I may have some lingering issues from the primary. Or the Obama administration, take your pick.

    (Yes you DO want someone exceptional for these jobs, someone (far) better than average, because these are HARD (and important!) JOBS. I'm sure as hell not qualified, and that's if I wanted the responsibility, which I absolutely fucking do not. We've seen what happens when you fill those positions with people who are exactly as dumb and incompetent as their base, just luckier and better connected, and it's been a disaster from top to bottom. These are jobs for which you want the best people you can find, in your country if not the entire planet.)

    I've had it with cronies and donors, fuckups and failsons. Bring on the "elites". We're gonna need them to get us out of this mess.
    I will take someone who isn’t a monster trying to inflict maximum pain.

    zepherin on
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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    I am so tired of this get, just announce the goddamn VP pick so we can get back to campaigning.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I am so tired of this get, just announce the goddamn VP pick so we can get back to campaigning.
    It’s important to do the oppositional research and vet the VP candidate. This takes time.

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    knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    Obama didn’t pick Biden until August 22, but he also wasn't the presumptive nominee until June

    Biden has been the defacto nominee since March, plus this has been the longest 4.5 months in recent history so it feels like it’s taking longer than usual.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Obama didn’t pick Biden until August 22, but he also wasn't the presumptive nominee until June

    Biden has been the defacto nominee since March, plus this has been the longest 4.5 months in recent history so it feels like it’s taking longer than usual.
    And Covid slows down everything.

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    knitdan wrote: »
    Obama didn’t pick Biden until August 22, but he also wasn't the presumptive nominee until June

    Biden has been the defacto nominee since March, plus this has been the longest 4.5 months in recent history so it feels like it’s taking longer than usual.

    His VP pick is going to get blasted, no question, even more than a regular VP pick given Biden's age, so delaying it as long as possible makes sense.

    TryCatcher on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Im still holding out for Duckworth.

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    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    VP announcement is a way to dominate a news cycle. That's pretty hard right now anyway, and all Trump needs to do is make a stupid tweet to steal it back, but timing the announcement is still a very calculated process. As is making sure it is the right choice. I'm fine waiting another week.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Yeah that will be up to AG. Harris is the most likely pick because she's the most prominent black woman in the party who wants the job (she's not Michelle Obama, in other words). And the party knows that black women are the most loyal group to the party and would like to reward that. Anything else is largely overthinking it.

    Also, she's 55. The coming decade is going to see a lot of turnover in leadership just by the actuarial tables.

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    No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    How does Harris poll among black voters?

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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Obama didn’t pick Biden until August 22, but he also wasn't the presumptive nominee until June

    Biden has been the defacto nominee since March, plus this has been the longest 4.5 months in recent history so it feels like it’s taking longer than usual.

    I was more in questioning of what happened in the Super Tuesday Capitulation
    As there was obviously something that went down behind the scenes with various people saying for the people to vote for Biden because

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    knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    How does Harris poll among black voters?

    It depends. She obviously didn’t get much traction in the primary.

    This article from June suggests she’s a top 2 choice, but it says the polling was done in May. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/biden-vp-black-democrats-are-torn-between-harris-warren-n1232312

    I am not aware of recent polling on the question of who black voters want for VP.

    Anecdotally there is a strong feeling among active Democrats that the VP needs to be a black woman.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Is our media learning?
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/28/trump-new-tone-385709
    ‘He just needs to win 60 percent of the next 100 days’

    Trump occasionally spends a few days staying generally on script, by his standards. But the president's traditional behavior always comes back.
    “If once in a while he goes off on a tweet storm about Dr. Fauci, OK,” said a person close to the White House, referencing the president’s occasional attempts — including on Tuesday night — to discredit Anthony Fauci, one of the government’s most respected voices on the coronavirus. “He just needs to have more days like we saw in the last week and a half than not. He doesn’t need perfection, he just needs to win 60 percent of the next 100 days.”
    To Trump’s backers, though, these outbursts are only damaging if they’re coming every single day.

    “For two straight months he was almost daily going off script,” said the person close to the White House. “No one is saying he has to be someone that he’s not. It just means he can’t be generating daily negative headlines like last few months.”
    The sad bigotry of low expectations there.

    "Does he sometimes shit himself and then throw that shit at other people? Yes. But what is important is he has good days!"

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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    If only Democrats could get away with “Doesn’t go on deranged rant every day.” as a good enough qualification for President.

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    MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    I appreciate the sad, desperate optimism that the next 100 day will be better than the last 100.

    Also, what does "win the day" mean in this context? That he doesn't generate a new negative headline, or the press stops talking about the three historic crises for day? The former is possible, if they take his phone. The latter is not.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Biden has also mentioned previously he's looking for his own Biden. Obama and Biden famously got along really well and worked together well from anything I've ever heard. Biden has previously stated his desire to have that same kind of relationship with his VP. I would not be shocked if there's a bunch of discussion around weighting people Biden likes vs people with good electoral and political qualification right now that are also complicating the process.

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    XantomasXantomas Registered User regular
    I'll bet something that would help Harris energize the black vote, aside from being a black woman herself, is that she's a strong, aggressive, ambitious woman and is getting attacked for it by old white men on both sides of the aisle now. That seems like a pretty good way to consolidate a lot of the folks that won Biden the primary behind his VP pick. I mean, they are going to vote for him no matter who the VP is, but you might increase that turnout and margin if they are more excited about and united behind his decision. And when she starts shooting that fire at Trump and all his corruption and stupidity we're all going to be happy.

    Susan Rice I like just fine, but it seems to me like she'd be a better pick for Sec State given her lack of political experience.

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    "ok guys can we hold him to only 40 deranged rants in the next 100 days? that seems doable let's give it a shot"

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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    "ok guys can we hold him to only 40 deranged rants in the next 100 days? that seems doable let's give it a shot"

    “BURN PORTLAND TO THE GROUND! FOREIGN MAIL FRAUD IS GONNA STEAL MY ELECTION! NOBODY LIKES ME!”

    “Okay, thirty-nine,”

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    No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    "ok guys can we hold him to only 40 deranged rants in the next 100 days? that seems doable let's give it a shot"

    “BURN PORTLAND TO THE GROUND! FOREIGN MAIL FRAUD IS GONNA STEAL MY ELECTION! NOBODY LIKES ME!”

    “Okay, thirty-nine,”

    "It's a little air-borne, it's still good, it's still good!"

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    DC brain is terminal. You're losing because 150k and counting people are dead and a quarter of the country is out of work. It's not because you're losing fucking news cycles.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    DC brain is terminal. You're losing because 150k and counting people are dead and a quarter of the country is out of work. It's not because you're losing fucking news cycles.

    I don't know, it may be fair to argue that they're losing news cycles because 150K dead and counting and a quarter are out of work. But that if they can find a way to win news cycles anyway they could still win the election. I kinda shudder to think how that's done, mind. But if they find a way, yeah I think they win.

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Best of the potential picks is Warren -> Harris -> Abrams, tbh.

    Big, big concern with a Warren VP slot is her age. The last thing that Biden needs is a VP that is also over the 70 line. I don't think that Warren makes the cut for that, sorry.

    I honestly, truly do not get this line, aside from my general desire to have the Boomers pass the goddamn torch already.

    Yes, Warren is older than someone like Harris or Abrams. But unless she and Biden die on, like, the same day, it really doesn’t matter. If Biden goes, she’ll become president and get to nominate her VP. If she goes, Biden will get to nominate her replacement. If they both, like, spontaneously combust, the Speaker becomes president and gets to nominate a VP. And I don’t see losing the House as even a remote possibility at this point.

    The consideration here is not “will this person survive the term”, it’s “will they be good at their job”. There’s a lot of data that shows Warren is the best choice for exciting younger voters. By default, that makes her a good pick for the job. Obviously I like her in the Senate but if picking her for VP excites the electorate to the point that she gets a liberal replacement, I won’t be too concerned.

    We have contingency plans in place for when someone in office dies. Trump got elected despite being as healthy and likely to live through his term as a chain-smoking, habitually road crossing armadillo. It just doesn’t matter to voters that aren’t super plugged in like us.

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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    The idea is we need someone who we can reasonably expect to continue public service for the next 8 to 16 years.

    Warren would be an ideal President, but she’s wasted as VP. Whomever they pick has to be expected to be young enough to run for President after Biden is out of office, wether he does four or eight years. Then that VP needs to still be able to do an additional four to eight years for their own term.

    I just can’t see Warren or anyone in that age range to seriously still be in politics when they’re damn near a nonagenarian.

    Mild Confusion on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Why? Why is just having another primary bad? This makes no sense.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    With the odds pretty damn good that Biden wouldn’t seek a second term, I think there’s good reason to pick a VP who would be the “heir apparent”.

    Having to go through a primary fight while controlling the WH doesn’t seem like it’s worth repeating so soon.

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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Why? Why is just having another primary bad? This makes no sense.

    Who said not to have a primary? Or that it was bad to?

    Tox on
    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    Why? Why is just having another primary bad? This makes no sense.

    Who said not to have a primary? Or that it was bad to?

    The assumption people are making is that the VP who succeeds an old/deceased Biden will become the standard bearer for the party and will need to run for re-election for two more terms.

    It’s a bad assumption to make.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Why? Why is just having another primary bad? This makes no sense.

    It's not that there won't be a primary.

    It's that the VP is the absolute frontrunner. And it comes with the implied, if not explicit endorsement of the President. If Biden had chosen to run in 2016, he'd have had Obama's support.

    So, whoever Biden picks, should be a shoe-in for the nomination, unless they're so completely unsuitable for the position that they don't run, in which case that'd reflect poorly on the President for picking them in the first place.

    So, whoever Biden picks, short of catastrophe, will be the next person to run for President.

This discussion has been closed.