That might be the most Trek episode Discovery's ever had.
I'm glad Saru finally, finally got his fourth pip. I continue to appreciate that characters like Book and Captain Ndoye are darker than Starfleet without being grimdark or evil. It's jarring to see how far Earth has fallen—once the heart of a galactic superpower, now it can't even control a solar system. Really harkens back to post-imperial Rome.
Adira is adorable. I hadn't called she'd be Trill(ish), but it's a nice callback and a very Trek means of learning about the last 1,000 years.
Also, I had this feeling last week but this episode confirmed—Kurtzman has turned Starfleet into the Jedi. Think about it. A dedicated group of people who aren't soldiers—but as good or better in a fight than anyone else—have abilities other groups can only dream of, and choose peace over conflict at every opportunity.
And, like the Jedi, the galaxy went straight to shit once they were gone. I see you, Mr. Kurtzman. I see you.
That might be the most Trek episode Discovery's ever had.
I'm glad Saru finally, finally got his fourth pip. I continue to appreciate that characters like Book and Captain Ndoye are darker than Starfleet without being grimdark or evil. It's jarring to see how far Earth has fallen—once the heart of a galactic superpower, now it can't even control a solar system. Really harkens back to post-imperial Rome.
Adira is adorable. I hadn't called she'd be Trill(ish), but it's a nice callback and a very Trek means of learning about the last 1,000 years.
Also, I had this feeling last week but this episode confirmed—Kurtzman has turned Starfleet into the Jedi. Think about it. A dedicated group of people who aren't soldiers—but as good or better in a fight than anyone else—have abilities other groups can only dream of, and choose peace over conflict at every opportunity.
And, like the Jedi, the galaxy went straight to shit once they were gone. I see you, Mr. Kurtzman. I see you.
That might be the most Trek episode Discovery's ever had.
I'm glad Saru finally, finally got his fourth pip. I continue to appreciate that characters like Book and Captain Ndoye are darker than Starfleet without being grimdark or evil. It's jarring to see how far Earth has fallen—once the heart of a galactic superpower, now it can't even control a solar system. Really harkens back to post-imperial Rome.
Adira is adorable. I hadn't called she'd be Trill(ish), but it's a nice callback and a very Trek means of learning about the last 1,000 years.
Also, I had this feeling last week but this episode confirmed—Kurtzman has turned Starfleet into the Jedi. Think about it. A dedicated group of people who aren't soldiers—but as good or better in a fight than anyone else—have abilities other groups can only dream of, and choose peace over conflict at every opportunity.
And, like the Jedi, the galaxy went straight to shit once they were gone. I see you, Mr. Kurtzman. I see you.
is Mars still on fire? :?
(bitter, so bitter)
They didn't say, but post-Federation isolationist Earth apparently abandoned the entire solar system. But Discovery seems to have started fixing that through diplomacy, so we'll see.
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MsAnthropyThe Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the RhythmThe City of FlowersRegistered Userregular
All the Trek shows were trying to have a serious appearance, the bar for 'serious' has just moved over time as people's perception of how sci-fi 'should' look has changed.
Oh, agreed. When I use 'serious' in this context, I am more talking about the fact that they set a show in between the first and second TOS pilots and then did absolutely nothing to make it look like their show was taking place in that period. That doesn't mean I expected them to recreate those looks exactly, the Enterprise uniforms and sets in S2 looked great and it feels to me like they were just too embarrassed to do that with their show because they thought it would be too silly.
I’m going to say that it’s because it’s being deprecated for some Paramount app.So it never had time to become half decent, and now they don’t care.
It pisses me off to no end how bad it is. Why, when I pause, does it minimize the video to show a bright blue CBS flash screen? Why can I pause with spacebar but not unpause with the same space bar? Why does it not remember where I am in a show when I leave and come back to it? Why can't I preview the video from the video time bar, which would make my life way easier finding where I left off since the app certainly isn't going to remember it. Why is there no option to skip the "previously on Star Trek and the intro preroll?
That entire app is a fucking criminal act against good and decent people everywhere.
damn these jemhadars are straight dabbing on the Odyssey
The Odyssey handled it way better than the Enterprise D
Your regularly scheduled reminder that Generations and The Jem'Hadar take place just a few days apart and released in theaters/on TV a matter of weeks apart.
Over the course of the TNG movies the only thing that came off worse than Riker's battle skills was Troi's piloting.
“Who is driving? Troi is driving.” is a phrase used often in our house to describe the results of any minor accident...
Okay, now I want a "Troi is my copilot" shirt, with a wrecked Enterprise on it.
I’m going to say that it’s because it’s being deprecated for some Paramount app.So it never had time to become half decent, and now they don’t care.
It pisses me off to no end how bad it is. Why, when I pause, does it minimize the video to show a bright blue CBS flash screen? Why can I pause with spacebar but not unpause with the same space bar? Why does it not remember where I am in a show when I leave and come back to it? Why can't I preview the video from the video time bar, which would make my life way easier finding where I left off since the app certainly isn't going to remember it. Why is there no option to skip the "previously on Star Trek and the intro preroll?
That entire app is a fucking criminal act against good and decent people everywhere.
Disclaimer: I have spent much of my career in software working on VOD platforms, some of which you’ve probably used, none of which are, thankfully, the CBS app.
Off the top of my head, the answer to the CBS flash thing will be “a business decision, someone in a very expensive suit thinks it’s a good idea”.
The remember/resume functionality is pretty basic stuff these days, but it’s an absolute bear to test (mostly because you need it to remember across devices). That said, the app is what, two years old now? So that suggests it wasn’t prioritised, or was in the pipe before this Paramount thing.
I can’t speak for frame preview, it should be straightforward, but I bet it’s on a JIRA backlog somewhere.
*Skipping* pre-roll ads if you’ve watched it before in the same session is fairly straightforward. Skipping it if you’ve watched it for that episode before *ever* is a bit trickier. But they’re not invested in not exposing you to ads, so that too will be on a backlog, along with the space bar thing and being able to skip the intro.
Basically, it’s all QoL stuff that I bet you the dev team wants to fix, but either they’re spending their time doing what the business prioritises (big blue CBS logo) or being shuffled out to work on the new hotness.
IIRC the CBS app was rushed out the door when Disco S1 came out, so it’s probably a nightmare of quick-fix tech debt too. Maybe the new one will be better...
ETA: FWIW I think the app is pretty crud for how long it’s been live, but none of those issues would be considered functional blockers; I’ve seen a lot worse. Which is no excuse, but...
ETAETA: All of the things bugging you were solved problems for white label and custom solutions, for small to mid-size teams, three or four years ago. When Disco first aired, they maybe had an excuse for the state of the app. Now, not so much.
Time to watch more TNG with the little man - if anyone is awake and wants to suggest one, go, we shall watch it!
This was a slower, more thoughtful episode with very little running about. The emotional pitch is still higher than previous Trek shows but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, just not to my particular taste as a deeply repressed Englishman.
At least Michael seems to give a few less fucks compared to before.
Even if I still think the timeframe between her and disco's arrival seems a bit short for how it's treated
How long has 2020 felt to you? I feel like the last five years passed quicker than this one, and it's still got two months to go.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
edited October 2020
So ep 3 definitely felt the most Star Trek due to diplomacy but
they just can't help themselves. Burnham had to steal the ship with all the dilithium! has to do it without talking to her Captain! has to just assume Discovery will somehow figure out what she's doing and I don't know what? The produces just have to keep ratcheting up the tension, everything HAS TO BE LIFE OR DEATH NO MATTER WHAT, OMG WILL EARTH DESTROY THE DISCOVERY? THEY CAN ONLY TAKE 1 MORE HIT OH GOD OH GOD! I don't even get her plan, did she somehow know that Disco would get hit and have its shields dropped so she could beam onto the bridge with the other captain?
This could have just been pure diplomacy at the end, no big firefight, and I would have liked it so much more.
Also as much as I love Saru finally becoming the captain, it's kinda crazy Burnham is the XO, like really she should be in the brig due to treason from the pilot, she keeps doing things without asking, it's silly at this point. I thought honestly she was gonna give up her commission and instead be like a special observer/helper on the ship or something after her year alone changed her but oh well make her the XO!
edit - also didn't an episode of DS9 specifically say that humans can't carry symbiotes for more than like a day and they HAVE to have trills?
Oh come on, the ship getting blown up is utterly standard stakes for a Star Trek episode.
Yeah, they just have the budget to do it with more than a screen shake and a "Shields down to 12% captain, the next shot will destroy us, time to pull out a technobabble or charisma check."
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
+3
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
edit - also didn't an episode of DS9 specifically say that humans can't carry symbiotes for more than like a day and they HAVE to have trills?
Yeah, like 700 years or so ago. What were they using at the time, leeches?[/McCoy]
Medical science has probably come up with some new tricks by the next next next next next next next generation.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
+3
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
edit - also didn't an episode of DS9 specifically say that humans can't carry symbiotes for more than like a day and they HAVE to have trills?
Yeah, like 700 years or so ago. What were they using at the time, leeches?[/McCoy]
Medical science has probably come up with some new tricks by the next next next next next next next generation.
Anyways, its been pointed out that in this episode:
Adira, the human/trill symbiont is called She/Her, when the actor goes by they/them in real life. Though its said that they will use They/them later in the season.
Seems like they are going for a full Trans journey in her character arc. After all unlike most Trills it seems she wasn't chosen to be a symbiont host, but had it trust upon her by circumstance. Kind of like Ezri, only more explicit. Which I personally find nice, because it is a part of the Trans experience, coming to terms with what you are and who you want to be. The fact that she/they can't access all their symbiont memories might be plot hook into that story.
In other opinions:
I am sick and tired of Michael hogging the spotlight. I want to learn more about the rest of the bridge crew. Detmer, Owosekun and Rhys. Like its been three season, give them some spotlight. Imagine TNG if it only focused on Rikker or Picard. Star trek works best as an ensemble show.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
I am sick and tired of Michael hogging the spotlight. I want to learn more about the rest of the bridge crew. Detmer, Owosekun and Rhys. Like its been three season, give them some spotlight. Imagine TNG if it only focused on Rikker or Picard. Star trek works best as an ensemble show.
TODS (typing is hard) was largely Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
TNG originally intended Riker as the main star, but Stewart overpowered that by force of acting, so it became largely Picard, Riker and Data, with Worf as the main runner up.
Voyager ended up being Janeway, Seven and Doc.
Enterprise was the Archer, T'Pol and Tucker show.
I'd say DS9 was the only one that really felt like a true ensemble. Nog and Rom got more character development than Geordie ever got.
They're all ensemble shows, but not everyone in an ensemble is equal.
I am sick and tired of Michael hogging the spotlight. I want to learn more about the rest of the bridge crew. Detmer, Owosekun and Rhys. Like its been three season, give them some spotlight. Imagine TNG if it only focused on Rikker or Picard. Star trek works best as an ensemble show.
TOD was largely Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
TNG originally intended Riker as the main star, but Stewart overpowered that by force of acting, so it became largely Picard, Riker and Data, with Worf as the main runner up.
Voyager ended up being Janeway, Seven and Doc.
Enterprise was the Archer, T'Pol and Tucker show.
I'd say DS9 was the only one that really felt like a true ensemble. Nog and Rom got more character development than Geordie ever got.
They're all ensemble shows, but not everyone in an ensemble is equal.
True,
but it feels like its a one woman show. Like not even Saru or Tilly are more than supporting characters in the Michael show.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
+3
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
I am sick and tired of Michael hogging the spotlight. I want to learn more about the rest of the bridge crew. Detmer, Owosekun and Rhys. Like its been three season, give them some spotlight. Imagine TNG if it only focused on Rikker or Picard. Star trek works best as an ensemble show.
TOD was largely Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
TNG originally intended Riker as the main star, but Stewart overpowered that by force of acting, so it became largely Picard, Riker and Data, with Worf as the main runner up.
Voyager ended up being Janeway, Seven and Doc.
Enterprise was the Archer, T'Pol and Tucker show.
I'd say DS9 was the only one that really felt like a true ensemble. Nog and Rom got more character development than Geordie ever got.
They're all ensemble shows, but not everyone in an ensemble is equal.
True,
but it feels like its a one woman show. Like not even Saru or Tilly are more than supporting characters in the Michael show.
that's because that main character of the show literally is Burnham, that's the conceit. I'm also not a big fan and wish it was more of a ensemble cast.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
I am sick and tired of Michael hogging the spotlight. I want to learn more about the rest of the bridge crew. Detmer, Owosekun and Rhys. Like its been three season, give them some spotlight. Imagine TNG if it only focused on Rikker or Picard. Star trek works best as an ensemble show.
TOD was largely Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
TNG originally intended Riker as the main star, but Stewart overpowered that by force of acting, so it became largely Picard, Riker and Data, with Worf as the main runner up.
Voyager ended up being Janeway, Seven and Doc.
Enterprise was the Archer, T'Pol and Tucker show.
I'd say DS9 was the only one that really felt like a true ensemble. Nog and Rom got more character development than Geordie ever got.
They're all ensemble shows, but not everyone in an ensemble is equal.
True,
but it feels like its a one woman show. Like not even Saru or Tilly are more than supporting characters in the Michael show.
that's because that main character of the show literally is Burnham, that's the conceit. I'm also not a big fan and wish it was more of a ensemble cast.
It’s funny, because I completely agree, but we were catching up on S3 and talking about how this season feels a lot more like an ensemble show than the last two. Long may it continue.
The time stuff from Enterprise was all over the place.
Enterprise-J was 2700's (along with the Xindi's temporal contact), Daniels was from some time in the 3000's. The Nakhul temporal benefactor was from the 2800's and the Suliban's from the 2900's.
The dates around the burn (3080's) are probably after all of that, but Daniels would probably still have been alive if not still active.
Hevach on
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
edited November 2020
I'm sorry if I missed some relevant discussion in spoilers, but being somebody who didn't discover their agender identity until late in life,
I was really enjoying the new character right up until whoops Trill. Which isn't to say you couldn't be agender and still magically host an alien symbiote, but sticking your DS9 era "people can't be non-cis/het unless they have an alien worm" thing in your new agender character is a fucking low blow.
I'm sorry if I missed some relevant discussion in spoilers, but being somebody who didn't discover their agender identity until late in life,
I was really enjoying the new character right up until whoops Trill. Which isn't to say you couldn't be agender and still magically host an alien symbiote, but sticking your DS9 era "people can't be non-cis/het unless they have an alien worm" thing in your new agender character is a fucking low blow.
Identity stuff:
I get what you’re saying here, but:
1. The symbiote doesn’t seem to be related to the character’s gender identity
2. We already got some explicitly non cis/het representation in Stamets/Culber, neither of whom have an alien worm. I mean, neither of them are standard, either, bring a mushroom man and a man who speaks to mushrooms, but they’re no less weird than everyone else.
3. Trans representation is inbound - hurrah!
I’m very much aware this is not my bailiwick, and don’t mean to say you shouldn’t feel how you do. But I was excited to see more inclusivity and diversity in on-screen Trek, and, not having made the connection the way you did, felt pretty happy recommendi g it until now!
I'm sorry if I missed some relevant discussion in spoilers, but being somebody who didn't discover their agender identity until late in life,
I was really enjoying the new character right up until whoops Trill. Which isn't to say you couldn't be agender and still magically host an alien symbiote, but sticking your DS9 era "people can't be non-cis/het unless they have an alien worm" thing in your new agender character is a fucking low blow.
Identity stuff:
I get what you’re saying here, but:
1. The symbiote doesn’t seem to be related to the character’s gender identity
2. We already got some explicitly non cis/het representation in Stamets/Culber, neither of whom have an alien worm. I mean, neither of them are standard, either, bring a mushroom man and a man who speaks to mushrooms, but they’re no less weird than everyone else.
3. Trans representation is inbound - hurrah!
I’m very much aware this is not my bailiwick, and don’t mean to say you shouldn’t feel how you do. But I was excited to see more inclusivity and diversity in on-screen Trek, and, not having made the connection the way you did, felt pretty happy recommendi g it until now!
Nah you got me on Stamets/Culber, and I'm probably overreacting, I was just really looking forward to this char and I'm sure I'll chill on them, I just really wanted it to be like here's this person who is this way, nothing special, that's just who they are. And I felt the Trill connection, if on a meta level, violated that.
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I’m going to say that it’s because it’s being deprecated for some Paramount app.So it never had time to become half decent, and now they don’t care.
Goodreads
SF&F Reviews blog
I'm glad Saru finally, finally got his fourth pip. I continue to appreciate that characters like Book and Captain Ndoye are darker than Starfleet without being grimdark or evil. It's jarring to see how far Earth has fallen—once the heart of a galactic superpower, now it can't even control a solar system. Really harkens back to post-imperial Rome.
Adira is adorable. I hadn't called she'd be Trill(ish), but it's a nice callback and a very Trek means of learning about the last 1,000 years.
Also, I had this feeling last week but this episode confirmed—Kurtzman has turned Starfleet into the Jedi. Think about it. A dedicated group of people who aren't soldiers—but as good or better in a fight than anyone else—have abilities other groups can only dream of, and choose peace over conflict at every opportunity.
And, like the Jedi, the galaxy went straight to shit once they were gone. I see you, Mr. Kurtzman. I see you.
(bitter, so bitter)
Oh, agreed. When I use 'serious' in this context, I am more talking about the fact that they set a show in between the first and second TOS pilots and then did absolutely nothing to make it look like their show was taking place in that period. That doesn't mean I expected them to recreate those looks exactly, the Enterprise uniforms and sets in S2 looked great and it feels to me like they were just too embarrassed to do that with their show because they thought it would be too silly.
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
It pisses me off to no end how bad it is. Why, when I pause, does it minimize the video to show a bright blue CBS flash screen? Why can I pause with spacebar but not unpause with the same space bar? Why does it not remember where I am in a show when I leave and come back to it? Why can't I preview the video from the video time bar, which would make my life way easier finding where I left off since the app certainly isn't going to remember it. Why is there no option to skip the "previously on Star Trek and the intro preroll?
That entire app is a fucking criminal act against good and decent people everywhere.
Okay, now I want a "Troi is my copilot" shirt, with a wrecked Enterprise on it.
Disclaimer: I have spent much of my career in software working on VOD platforms, some of which you’ve probably used, none of which are, thankfully, the CBS app.
Off the top of my head, the answer to the CBS flash thing will be “a business decision, someone in a very expensive suit thinks it’s a good idea”.
The remember/resume functionality is pretty basic stuff these days, but it’s an absolute bear to test (mostly because you need it to remember across devices). That said, the app is what, two years old now? So that suggests it wasn’t prioritised, or was in the pipe before this Paramount thing.
I can’t speak for frame preview, it should be straightforward, but I bet it’s on a JIRA backlog somewhere.
*Skipping* pre-roll ads if you’ve watched it before in the same session is fairly straightforward. Skipping it if you’ve watched it for that episode before *ever* is a bit trickier. But they’re not invested in not exposing you to ads, so that too will be on a backlog, along with the space bar thing and being able to skip the intro.
Basically, it’s all QoL stuff that I bet you the dev team wants to fix, but either they’re spending their time doing what the business prioritises (big blue CBS logo) or being shuffled out to work on the new hotness.
IIRC the CBS app was rushed out the door when Disco S1 came out, so it’s probably a nightmare of quick-fix tech debt too. Maybe the new one will be better...
ETA: FWIW I think the app is pretty crud for how long it’s been live, but none of those issues would be considered functional blockers; I’ve seen a lot worse. Which is no excuse, but...
ETAETA: All of the things bugging you were solved problems for white label and custom solutions, for small to mid-size teams, three or four years ago. When Disco first aired, they maybe had an excuse for the state of the app. Now, not so much.
Time to watch more TNG with the little man - if anyone is awake and wants to suggest one, go, we shall watch it!
Goodreads
SF&F Reviews blog
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
I am really digging Discovery. I think the cast/crew is already exceeding Enterprise and Voyager for me.
This could have just been pure diplomacy at the end, no big firefight, and I would have liked it so much more.
Also as much as I love Saru finally becoming the captain, it's kinda crazy Burnham is the XO, like really she should be in the brig due to treason from the pilot, she keeps doing things without asking, it's silly at this point. I thought honestly she was gonna give up her commission and instead be like a special observer/helper on the ship or something after her year alone changed her but oh well make her the XO!
edit - also didn't an episode of DS9 specifically say that humans can't carry symbiotes for more than like a day and they HAVE to have trills?
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Yeah, they just have the budget to do it with more than a screen shake and a "Shields down to 12% captain, the next shot will destroy us, time to pull out a technobabble or charisma check."
Medical science has probably come up with some new tricks by the next next next next next next next generation.
And now I think I understand the appeal of trolling.
And yet the appeal of Reddit continues to elude us...
Not that I spend much time perusing said portion....
Okay, yes I do. its all thats keeping me sane while trying to avoid news of the election. Mr Flibble agrees with me that its ever so fun!
Seems like they are going for a full Trans journey in her character arc. After all unlike most Trills it seems she wasn't chosen to be a symbiont host, but had it trust upon her by circumstance. Kind of like Ezri, only more explicit. Which I personally find nice, because it is a part of the Trans experience, coming to terms with what you are and who you want to be. The fact that she/they can't access all their symbiont memories might be plot hook into that story.
In other opinions:
I love how the episode with the time loop ends every single act break with the exact same scene of the Enterprise exploding into bits.
TNG originally intended Riker as the main star, but Stewart overpowered that by force of acting, so it became largely Picard, Riker and Data, with Worf as the main runner up.
Voyager ended up being Janeway, Seven and Doc.
Enterprise was the Archer, T'Pol and Tucker show.
I'd say DS9 was the only one that really felt like a true ensemble. Nog and Rom got more character development than Geordie ever got.
They're all ensemble shows, but not everyone in an ensemble is equal.
True,
that's because that main character of the show literally is Burnham, that's the conceit. I'm also not a big fan and wish it was more of a ensemble cast.
It’s funny, because I completely agree, but we were catching up on S3 and talking about how this season feels a lot more like an ensemble show than the last two. Long may it continue.
Goodreads
SF&F Reviews blog
Eariler, 27 hundreds I believe.
Enterprise-J was 2700's (along with the Xindi's temporal contact), Daniels was from some time in the 3000's. The Nakhul temporal benefactor was from the 2800's and the Suliban's from the 2900's.
The dates around the burn (3080's) are probably after all of that, but Daniels would probably still have been alive if not still active.
Identity stuff:
1. The symbiote doesn’t seem to be related to the character’s gender identity
2. We already got some explicitly non cis/het representation in Stamets/Culber, neither of whom have an alien worm. I mean, neither of them are standard, either, bring a mushroom man and a man who speaks to mushrooms, but they’re no less weird than everyone else.
3. Trans representation is inbound - hurrah!
I’m very much aware this is not my bailiwick, and don’t mean to say you shouldn’t feel how you do. But I was excited to see more inclusivity and diversity in on-screen Trek, and, not having made the connection the way you did, felt pretty happy recommendi g it until now!
Goodreads
SF&F Reviews blog