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Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail me now [Cars]

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    Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    Ticaldfjam wrote: »
    Ford's new hybrid compact pickup sounds pretty interesting.

    Ford is going to be the only American Car company standing In The future, while GM and Chrysler continue to spiral.

    I don't like saying that , as I have friends and family back in the Midwest, whom work for all the Big three respectively, but Ford has been really putting their money where their mouth is, when it comes to EV , other than Tesla in America.

    GM, well, is gonna GM as usual. Sigh.

    I feel like GM is leaning pretty heavy into EVs. They have the bolt already, which is mildly popular, and have said they will have like 10-20 new EVs in their lineup in the next year or two (I know cadillac and hummer have concept cars already out). As well as some vague comments about being entirely EV based by like 2030.

    Not a lot deployed already, but basically everything they are discussing/concerting/displaying right now is EV based.

    "The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    Ticaldfjam wrote: »
    Ford's new hybrid compact pickup sounds pretty interesting.

    Ford is going to be the only American Car company standing In The future, while GM and Chrysler continue to spiral.

    I don't like saying that , as I have friends and family back in the Midwest, whom work for all the Big three respectively, but Ford has been really putting their money where their mouth is, when it comes to EV , other than Tesla in America.

    GM, well, is gonna GM as usual. Sigh.

    I feel like GM is leaning pretty heavy into EVs. They have the bolt already, which is mildly popular, and have said they will have like 10-20 new EVs in their lineup in the next year or two (I know cadillac and hummer have concept cars already out). As well as some vague comments about being entirely EV based by like 2030.

    Not a lot deployed already, but basically everything they are discussing/concerting/displaying right now is EV based.

    Also GM is doing huge business in China. There was just an article on Jalopnik of how badly they are crushing everyone with their market-specific EV that's $4500, and Buick continues to kill there.

    But yeah, the Bolt is the best selling non-Tesla EV in America. GM is doing fine in that space, although Ford has been doing good work. Surprised the Maverick introduction didn't include their Lightning version. I know there is a hybrid version, but not even teasing a pure EV seems like a missed opportunity.

    And flipping the whole towing / truck thing. A quarter of truck buyers / drivers tow at least once per year. So if a truck can't tow, a quarter of the potential market will immediately reject it. And what portion of that 75% tow once per year / occasionally? Yes there are alternative options, but if you buy a pickup and still need to go rent something when you need to tow, you aren't going to buy that vehicle ever again.

    I'd go so far to say that reasonable (i.e. 4000 /5000 lb) tow capacity is an essential feature of any truck or SUV. If it can't tow at least a small boat / loaded utility trailer why are you even buying one instead of a car / efficient CUV?

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    KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Not every truck needs to be able to get a sectional from Costco in the bed. I wouldn't even want to put one of those things in a full size bed. They're gigantic. Can it fit a sixty inch TV? Can it fit the dresser you're picking up from your aunt that is trying to get rid of it? It'll be fine.

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    schussschuss Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    ...hat reasonable (i.e. 4000 /5000 lb) tow capacity is an essential feature of any truck or SUV. If it can't tow at least a small boat / loaded utility trailer why are you even buying one instead of a car / efficient CUV?

    You're applying too much sense to truck/SUV/Jeep buyers.
    My minivan's tow setup is more well used than 90% of trucks I see.

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    mRahmanimRahmani DetroitRegistered User regular
    edited June 2021
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    Ticaldfjam wrote: »
    Ford's new hybrid compact pickup sounds pretty interesting.

    Ford is going to be the only American Car company standing In The future, while GM and Chrysler continue to spiral.

    I don't like saying that , as I have friends and family back in the Midwest, whom work for all the Big three respectively, but Ford has been really putting their money where their mouth is, when it comes to EV , other than Tesla in America.

    GM, well, is gonna GM as usual. Sigh.

    I feel like GM is leaning pretty heavy into EVs. They have the bolt already, which is mildly popular, and have said they will have like 10-20 new EVs in their lineup in the next year or two (I know cadillac and hummer have concept cars already out). As well as some vague comments about being entirely EV based by like 2030.

    Not a lot deployed already, but basically everything they are discussing/concerting/displaying right now is EV based.
    And flipping the whole towing / truck thing. A quarter of truck buyers / drivers tow at least once per year. So if a truck can't tow, a quarter of the potential market will immediately reject it. And what portion of that 75% tow once per year / occasionally? Yes there are alternative options, but if you buy a pickup and still need to go rent something when you need to tow, you aren't going to buy that vehicle ever again.

    I'd go so far to say that reasonable (i.e. 4000 /5000 lb) tow capacity is an essential feature of any truck or SUV. If it can't tow at least a small boat / loaded utility trailer why are you even buying one instead of a car / efficient CUV?

    The problem with trying to increase tow capacity is that the weight, fuel economy penalty, and cost to do so are exponential. You need a more powerful engine and stronger transmission to move it. You need heavier rear springs and shocks to support the load. You need bigger brakes to stop it. You need a larger cooling system. And on and on and on.

    I think Ford did the right thing by targeting this as a low cost, low capacity, small pickup and let the market decide if it's worth buying. The Ranger and F-150 will be right there next to it on the lot if you really need more capability. Personally, I think it would fit my needs pretty well (1500 lb dirt bike trailer and gear).

    mRahmani on
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    mRahmani wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    Ticaldfjam wrote: »
    Ford's new hybrid compact pickup sounds pretty interesting.

    Ford is going to be the only American Car company standing In The future, while GM and Chrysler continue to spiral.

    I don't like saying that , as I have friends and family back in the Midwest, whom work for all the Big three respectively, but Ford has been really putting their money where their mouth is, when it comes to EV , other than Tesla in America.

    GM, well, is gonna GM as usual. Sigh.

    I feel like GM is leaning pretty heavy into EVs. They have the bolt already, which is mildly popular, and have said they will have like 10-20 new EVs in their lineup in the next year or two (I know cadillac and hummer have concept cars already out). As well as some vague comments about being entirely EV based by like 2030.

    Not a lot deployed already, but basically everything they are discussing/concerting/displaying right now is EV based.
    And flipping the whole towing / truck thing. A quarter of truck buyers / drivers tow at least once per year. So if a truck can't tow, a quarter of the potential market will immediately reject it. And what portion of that 75% tow once per year / occasionally? Yes there are alternative options, but if you buy a pickup and still need to go rent something when you need to tow, you aren't going to buy that vehicle ever again.

    I'd go so far to say that reasonable (i.e. 4000 /5000 lb) tow capacity is an essential feature of any truck or SUV. If it can't tow at least a small boat / loaded utility trailer why are you even buying one instead of a car / efficient CUV?

    The problem with trying to increase tow capacity is that the weight, fuel economy penalty, and cost to do so are exponential. You need a more powerful engine and stronger transmission to move it. You need heavier rear springs and shocks to support the load. You need bigger brakes to stop it. You need a larger cooling system. And on and on and on.

    I think Ford did the right thing by targeting this as a low cost, low capacity, small pickup and let the market decide if it's worth buying. The Ranger and F-150 will be right there next to it on the lot if you really need more capability. Personally, I think it would fit my needs pretty well (1500 lb dirt bike trailer and gear).

    They're basically targeting it as an affordable urban hauler - which is a good niche to aim for.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    Red RaevynRed Raevyn because I only take Bubble Baths Registered User regular
    I think it's really appealing. I wrote off American cars a long time ago, first because I thought they mostly sucked but second because it made me so mad that they plugged along making outdated stupid cars* for decades (then also invested stupidly) and got wildly bailed out by the government. The electric F-150 looks super cool but I know I'm never spending that much on a vehicle. This little truck is getting a lot closer to something I'd consider, and the hybrid isn't a bad idea. Although more and more I think when I do replace our GTi with something sizable it's just going to be something like a Sienna and maybe a small trailer instead of a pickup.

    *I know there are exceptions, and also that many Americans seem to want outdated stupid cars

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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Red Raevyn wrote: »
    I think it's really appealing. I wrote off American cars a long time ago, first because I thought they mostly sucked but second because it made me so mad that they plugged along making outdated stupid cars* for decades (then also invested stupidly) and got wildly bailed out by the government. The electric F-150 looks super cool but I know I'm never spending that much on a vehicle. This little truck is getting a lot closer to something I'd consider, and the hybrid isn't a bad idea. Although more and more I think when I do replace our GTi with something sizable it's just going to be something like a Sienna and maybe a small trailer instead of a pickup.

    *I know there are exceptions, and also that many Americans seem to want outdated stupid cars

    I'm hoping to be able to pick up the electric F150 next year while I can still get the $7500 EV credit. That'll help with the price, plus I want the work edition, so that'll be on the cheaper end of their models.

    Steam ID: Webguy20
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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    So Leno tried to set the new production car quarter mile record in a Tesla S Plaid. Ran a 9.24.

    Ignoring that no street car should ever be running sub tens. And electric means it's you can dial it up and back.

    It was a rolling start not a real tree so all those numbers should be suspect. Tesla makes crazy fast cars because electric lets you put down every bit of power possible no more or less, and their time is basically tires and traction. But cool shit!

    Dont cheat by not counting a rollout.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motor1.com/news/513646/jay-leno-quarter-mile-tesla/amp/

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    Red RaevynRed Raevyn because I only take Bubble Baths Registered User regular
    Yeah, I had also read about that rolling start asterisk to their time somewhere else. It's such stupid marketing because it erodes your remarkable claim so severely. Just brag about what you're actually doing, which is plenty incredible!, rather than lying to make it 10% cooler and throwing the whole argument away.

    Buuuuuut on the other hand they're probably doing the smart thing because the ratio of people who understand and care about whether it's standing or rolling to people who don't is likely in the marketing department's favor :T

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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Red Raevyn wrote: »
    Yeah, I had also read about that rolling start asterisk to their time somewhere else. It's such stupid marketing because it erodes your remarkable claim so severely. Just brag about what you're actually doing, which is plenty incredible!, rather than lying to make it 10% cooler and throwing the whole argument away.

    Buuuuuut on the other hand they're probably doing the smart thing because the ratio of people who understand and care about whether it's standing or rolling to people who don't is likely in the marketing department's favor :T

    But anyone who cares or knows how crazy fast a 9.24 is also knows it doesn't mean anything if it's from a roll.

    A 9.45 or 9.60 wouldn't be any less impressive for a fully streetable production car. Having the confidence to run it legitimately instead of doing some snake oil BS for a meaningless couple tenths is pretty par for the course and just plays into the whole perception of Tesla not being legit.

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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    phew. honda has been emailing me incessantly about trading up my 20 civic, since the 22 is a whole new redesigned generation. especially with the resale value of cars right now i was a little bit tempted. but i got to see the interior and i actually prefer the styling in my car. nice to avoid purchaser's regret and be totally happy with my vehicle.

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    AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    Thinking about trading in my 2016 Impala and getting my first pickup truck. Mostly I want something I can kick around and don't need to baby so much. Also the ability to haul shit would be so nice, and maybe even some day tow a fishing boat? A man can dream.

    Anyways. Fuck me are trucks expensive. Right now eyeing a 2019 Colorado. Seems like it might be a decent entry point for a first time pickup buyer? Any other recommendations to check out?

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Thinking about trading in my 2016 Impala and getting my first pickup truck. Mostly I want something I can kick around and don't need to baby so much. Also the ability to haul shit would be so nice, and maybe even some day tow a fishing boat? A man can dream.

    Anyways. Fuck me are trucks expensive. Right now eyeing a 2019 Colorado. Seems like it might be a decent entry point for a first time pickup buyer? Any other recommendations to check out?

    Tacomas are always nice, though a bit long in tooth drivetrain wise at this point. Nissan is coming out with a major refresh of the Frontier next month that looks quiet good. The Ranger/Colorado/Canyon (Fancy colorado) are your best domestic options.

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    matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    Nissan's updating the Z.

    210817164433-02-nissan-new-2023-z-sports-car-exlarge-169.jpeg
    210817164302-01-nissan-new-2023-z-sports-car-exlarge-169.jpg

    400hp turbo V6 with a 6 speed manual standard.

    nibXTE7.png
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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    I know I know

    hnnnnng

    It's like....the distillation of my car into pure sport. The exact same motor, but with a manual option.

    I AM BUT A MAN

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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    If I wanted a truck and didn't need anything particularly heavy duty I'd be looking hard at a Maverick

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    BullheadBullhead Registered User regular
    Back end looks like they stole a Mustang's light bar. Also looks like it still has the zero visibility back window the current gen does. But good power at that price, if they can deliver. Though the Mustang still is a better option in that category (by ALOT).

    96058.png?1619393207
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    KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Supposedly the Camaro is the superior drivers car, but I can't get past its looks. Meanwhile, the Challenger is gorgeous, but unless you are getting a 392 or up, it's too slow. The Mustang fits the sweet spot of being good looking enough and fast enough.

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    BullheadBullhead Registered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Supposedly the Camaro is the superior drivers car, but I can't get past its looks. Meanwhile, the Challenger is gorgeous, but unless you are getting a 392 or up, it's too slow. The Mustang fits the sweet spot of being good looking enough and fast enough.

    Agreed on the Camaro, though people universally complain about how terrible the view out is (bunker like). Generally the Mustang is considered best bang for buck sports car under 50k (I think).

    96058.png?1619393207
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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    Bullhead wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Supposedly the Camaro is the superior drivers car, but I can't get past its looks. Meanwhile, the Challenger is gorgeous, but unless you are getting a 392 or up, it's too slow. The Mustang fits the sweet spot of being good looking enough and fast enough.

    Agreed on the Camaro, though people universally complain about how terrible the view out is (bunker like). Generally the Mustang is considered best bang for buck sports car under 50k (I think).

    Yea, on the road you're not going to notice the difference between the regular GT level models between the mustang and Camaro. The high end Camaro does perform noticeably better, but at that point you're looking at a track car. Also the Camaros are bunkers, god their sight lines are terrible. My Mom had a Mustang and while it didn't have great views, it was so much better than my buddies Camaro. Also the interior was a fair bit better.

    Also nothing out there can compare at the price point to the Mustang GT350 with the flat plane v8. It's consistently considered one of the best drivers cars out there for sheer enjoyment even if it loses out to the high end electrics these days.

    webguy20 on
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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Supposedly the Camaro is the superior drivers car, but I can't get past its looks. Meanwhile, the Challenger is gorgeous, but unless you are getting a 392 or up, it's too slow. The Mustang fits the sweet spot of being good looking enough and fast enough.

    Supposedly the Camaro has not sold very well, which comes as a surprise to me, I think it looks amazing, but then, as we can see, that is very subjective.

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    emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Supposedly the Camaro is the superior drivers car, but I can't get past its looks. Meanwhile, the Challenger is gorgeous, but unless you are getting a 392 or up, it's too slow. The Mustang fits the sweet spot of being good looking enough and fast enough.

    Supposedly the Camaro has not sold very well, which comes as a surprise to me, I think it looks amazing, but then, as we can see, that is very subjective.

    Thats surprising, I feel like I see a bunch of them on the road and I'm in hippieville.

    EDIT: Okay they're drowning in a sea of Teslas...and German cars...and Japanese cars...but after F150s and Mustangs, they're like the 3rd most common American car I see!

    emp123 on
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    SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    emp123 wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Supposedly the Camaro is the superior drivers car, but I can't get past its looks. Meanwhile, the Challenger is gorgeous, but unless you are getting a 392 or up, it's too slow. The Mustang fits the sweet spot of being good looking enough and fast enough.

    Supposedly the Camaro has not sold very well, which comes as a surprise to me, I think it looks amazing, but then, as we can see, that is very subjective.

    Thats surprising, I feel like I see a bunch of them on the road and I'm in hippieville.

    EDIT: Okay they're drowning in a sea of Teslas...and German cars...and Japanese cars...but after F150s and Mustangs, they're like the 3rd most common American car I see!

    Do you see them more often than Challengers in your area? The market is currently about 45% Mustang, 45% Challenger, and 10% Camaro with Challengers gaining all the Camaro lost sales.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
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    cncaudatacncaudata Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Supposedly the Camaro is the superior drivers car, but I can't get past its looks. Meanwhile, the Challenger is gorgeous, but unless you are getting a 392 or up, it's too slow. The Mustang fits the sweet spot of being good looking enough and fast enough.

    Supposedly the Camaro has not sold very well, which comes as a surprise to me, I think it looks amazing, but then, as we can see, that is very subjective.

    I just saw one tonight! I don't know that I have before, and I couldn't agree more. It's the most attractive new car I've seen on the road recently, besides the Miata, and those are obviously different aesthetics. It does look like you'd be staring out of an arrow-slit though.

    Also, guy could not operate a clutch and throttle at the same time. I thought he was just revving the engine to make noise, but then he did it while downshifting in the turn lane, and again while backing into a parking spot. Ugh.

    PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    There's a few of them here in town (Probably as many Camaros as there are Mustangs, but to be fair, Yellowknife isn't really the place you'd expect to find a lot of sports cars). There's a convertible with after market exhaust that is so fucking loud, it's painful every time it drives by. I was following it one day, two cars behind, and it was still louder to me than my own car (Which has a borla exhaust, so isn't quiet by any metric).

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    KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Lol, yeah exhaust can get crazy loud. I've got the Ford racing one on my GT. Few years ago I was behind 2014 generation car on I-95. I could hear his exhaust over mine, with my windows up. I can't imagine how loud it was inside that guys car, because I got the quietest one I could find that still gave me the sound I wanted and it's loud as hell in my car.

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    emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    emp123 wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Supposedly the Camaro is the superior drivers car, but I can't get past its looks. Meanwhile, the Challenger is gorgeous, but unless you are getting a 392 or up, it's too slow. The Mustang fits the sweet spot of being good looking enough and fast enough.

    Supposedly the Camaro has not sold very well, which comes as a surprise to me, I think it looks amazing, but then, as we can see, that is very subjective.

    Thats surprising, I feel like I see a bunch of them on the road and I'm in hippieville.

    EDIT: Okay they're drowning in a sea of Teslas...and German cars...and Japanese cars...but after F150s and Mustangs, they're like the 3rd most common American car I see!

    Do you see them more often than Challengers in your area? The market is currently about 45% Mustang, 45% Challenger, and 10% Camaro with Challengers gaining all the Camaro lost sales.

    I'd say mostly Mustangs, followed by an even split of Challengers and Chargers, then Camaros.


    Now that I think about it and I just drove up and down the state and I'm not sure I saw many Camaros...

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    Red RaevynRed Raevyn because I only take Bubble Baths Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    What do you guys think about used cars with sagging headliners?

    Our '07 GTI with 111k miles has been on the proverbial chopping block for a while (to be replaced with a larger vehicle), but we weren't about to try to replace it during the last year's weirdness and didn't want to be down a car. And in the interim, the stupid headliner has completely detached. It's the foam between headliner shell and fabric completely disintegrating, so not repairable without pulling it out and doing it right, and in addition to a small amount near the front it's basically the whole rear half of the car, and looks dreadful. Because of the hole for the rear dome light (where it started) you can see right in to the orange foam.

    So this is a $3-5?k car before covid, and the local place says it'll probably be about $500 to do it, which sounds about right. On the one hand that seems like a dumb amount to spend on a car I plan to sell, but on the other I know I personally wouldn't consider buying a used car with a headliner coming off unless I wanted a total beater. What do you think?

    Edit: Also, when I read about it I found it is very common in the MKVs so just fuck VW all over again for this. This is some 1980s era bullshit.

    Red Raevyn on
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    L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    It will sell better without the sagging headliner, for sure.
    I personally would probably skip it, because "what other kinds of maintenance does it need that you're neglecting because it doesn't bother you?". If the headliner doesn't bother you, how about the burning oil from the engine, or rough shifting from the transmission, etc.?

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    BouwsTBouwsT Wanna come to a super soft birthday party? Registered User regular
    I'd personally agree, I've never seen a vehicle come through the shop that had a sagging headliner, but that was ALL that was wrong with it. I see that as a visual shorthand for "avoid at all costs" (rightly or wrongly).

    Between you and me, Peggy, I smoked this Juul and it did UNTHINKABLE things to my mind and body...
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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    For me it depends on the age and mileage. A 2007 seems too new to have an unfixed saggy headliner, but some cars are known for it. Old Jeep Cherokees are known for it, so If I saw a 2001 XJ with a saggy liner I wouldn't be bothered, as just about every one of them will experience that problem. Also It wouldn't be over $3000 either.

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    mRahmanimRahmani DetroitRegistered User regular
    Issues that glaring I usually fix, because it's so obvious and everybody looking at the car will try to lowball you. Looking online, a brand new headliner is about $400, which I would strongly recommend over repairing the old one. They're not too hard to install, though a second set of hands helps a lot.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Bigot complains about Ford's choice of paint color on truck, calls it "gay".

    Ford's response:

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    And Ford painted/wrapped the truck



    Tweet Text:

    You asked #Ford to make the #VeryGayRaptor a reality… and we heard you.

    🏳️‍🌈 Our-real life version made its debut at Cologne Pride last week in all its rainbow-adorned glory.

    Tweet Picture:
    A black and gold glitter painted raptor truck with the pride flag on it.

    Ethea on
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    jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    Thinking about trading in my 2016 Impala and getting my first pickup truck. Mostly I want something I can kick around and don't need to baby so much. Also the ability to haul shit would be so nice, and maybe even some day tow a fishing boat? A man can dream.

    Anyways. Fuck me are trucks expensive. Right now eyeing a 2019 Colorado. Seems like it might be a decent entry point for a first time pickup buyer? Any other recommendations to check out?

    Hey sorry I'm just shy of a month late... I drive a 2015 Colorado, and really like it. The V6 has been great, the seats are comfortable, and it does all the truck stuff I need it to do without being a giant half ton like the F150 or Silverado. Cruising on the highway on long trips, it's easy to get 25mpg. It's been a great truck for me, and I'm aiming to go 8-10 years with it before getting another vehicle.

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    m!ttensm!ttens he/himRegistered User regular
    Ethea wrote: »
    And Ford painted/wrapped the truck



    Tweet Text:

    You asked #Ford to make the #VeryGayRaptor a reality… and we heard you.

    🏳️‍🌈 Our-real life version made its debut at Cologne Pride last week in all its rainbow-adorned glory.

    Tweet Picture:
    A black and gold glitter painted raptor truck with the pride flag on it.

    That is amazingly awesome, good on you, Ford. Reminds me a bit of the Oatmeal's Gayroller 2000
    CIbyncOUwAAdCL6.jpg

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    japanjapan Registered User regular



    Jesus, I would have assumed that this had been crashed and given cosmetic repairs. I'd run a mile from this as a used car, and probably wouldn't believe a dealer telling me it was brand new.

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    CormacCormac Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    I'm sorry but for a car that expensive that many quality control issues on one car is just completely unacceptable.

    Cormac on
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    BullheadBullhead Registered User regular
    Cormac wrote: »
    I'm sorry but for a car that expensive that many quality control issues on one car is just completely unacceptable.

    Just imagine the shit you can't see!

    96058.png?1619393207
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