all of them would be immediately improved if they removed the gacha parts.
No doubt! I'm sure they exist. The idea of gacha is basically removing portion of gameplay that many people would normally find part of the draw and replacing it with the real money gambling. Remove that real money gambling and add back in that normal part of gameplay and the improvement is gigantic.
Not to mention the fact that the game will always need to be built around the gacha aspect means, despite what some gacha folks may try and tell you, you can't actually just ignore the gacha. Whether you interact with it or not it's built into the game.
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
Genshin's drop rates and the rate you earn in game resources is egregiously bad too, even by gacha standards.
+4
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
a lot of gachas have a "pity" or "spark" system where if you pull X times on a banner, you can choose a drop to get anyway. they are all, at a minimum, hundreds of dollars if you start from 0. now, strictly speaking, these are designed with the assumption that most players have free currency that stacks up over time. i play granblue, never put a dime in, and have done it like 10 times
but also, if you want to start spending money to do that pull from 0, they're not gonna say no
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
I feel like on average that sort of pity system is six hundred bucks on the low end
MOST Gacha pity systems are ridiculous. Example, the Nier gacha game, which people will describe as relatively generous with gacha currency, will have banners with 3 desirable characters. Getting pity for ONE of them is twenty 10 pulls. It's less "pity" and more so "to prevent our highest spending players from coming to the office to attack us physically."
Edit: Bad math misspeaking here on my first try, but just to correct the sense of scale, completing an entire event and getting all the currency rewards from it might be good for say, 3 10 pulls in this game. There MIGHT be two events in a month, maybe only one. So saving for twenty 10 pulls through just playing would be in the neighborhood of 6 months+. There's good rewards from playing the main story, but those are one off, so you could easily deplete the entire campaign of the game on ONE banner and then never have that resource again.
Genshin's drop rates and the rate you earn in game resources is egregiously bad too, even by gacha standards.
I give Genshin Impact a lot of grace here just because it has actual gameplay. Maybe there's stuff at the high end raids where I’d need a fully speced out team. But rolling with the default characters and my c0 and c1 free pulls has been fine for my dozens of hours of open world exploration.
It’s an incredible game with a scammy gambling mechanic bolted on the side.
a lot of gachas have a "pity" or "spark" system where if you pull X times on a banner, you can choose a drop to get anyway. they are all, at a minimum, hundreds of dollars if you start from 0. now, strictly speaking, these are designed with the assumption that most players have free currency that stacks up over time. i play granblue, never put a dime in, and have done it like 10 times
but also, if you want to start spending money to do that pull from 0, they're not gonna say no
A lot of them don't include free currency in the pity system too
My big Gacha for a long time was Epic 7, and you could easily save up enough free currency to pity most units. That game was relatively generous with the stuff for characters because its gearing was much more random.
Speaking of Revived Witch, I saw an ad for it a little bit ago. Is that game actually good?
League of Legends: Sorakanmyworld
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
I am gonna try that Shining Force gacha when it comes out. I hope it is manageable
It chafes, but I think I'm going to have to bust the difficulty down to Normal for Riku mode in Chain of Memories. Aside from the game's already-irritating trump-card mechanic*, you have this super mode that fills up and activates as you outplay the enemy's cards. The problem is that whatever card you play when you finally fill up the bar gets cancelled... and if that card happens to be one of the all-important healing cards that you're only afforded at random intervals, well, sucks to be you, try the battle again.
* I'm totally on-board with the premise that a 0 card beats everything, and that the enemy is allowed to cancel a super move already in progress by playing one. The same option is available to you; fair's fair. What I take issue with is the fact that most boss characters' 0-value card is a combo move, and you're not allowed to play anything while in hitstun. Meanwhile, your 0 cards are all single-hit slappers. So on your end you can cancel boss specials with a slap on the wrist, and on their end they can not only cancel your supers but also blow away half your health or more, because they basically start their combo for free when you're reeling from the card-break. Insofar as the game takes pains to make the player and the enemy play by the same rules, that's infuriating.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
If gacha was rightly classified as gambling and subject to all the applicable gambling laws, how many gachas would adapt and how many would cease to exist?
There are (or were, I haven't paid attention to them in a while) a bunch of gambling apps that escape(d) being considered "gambling" because you bought funbux and gambled them away with 0% chance of monetary return.
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
edited November 2021
When I was like, 8, I went to an amusement park in North Carolina called Dowdys, and they had token slots. You could only put in and win tokens.
How do you get tokens?
Buy em' at the counter. 4 for a dollar.
I left with $20, going in with like $10, and proceeded to celebrate by riding a wooden coaster. On the first hill a dragonfly flew into my mouth on the way down.
I spit the wings out but that baby was gooooone.
Since then, I've had the strength of a typical adult person plus one wingless dragonfly
MalReynolds on
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
If gacha was rightly classified as gambling and subject to all the applicable gambling laws, how many gachas would adapt and how many would cease to exist?
This isn't really the big thing you'd think it was.
What would they have to adapt? Required age gating which phone makers would have to enforce. Which means those phone makers would need a system to regulate and control this. Which means loss of privacy for all users because it'd become a store default.
I guess they'd get code checked to see that their odds are correct but that's easy.
Gambling ain't actually regulated much at all once it's allowed legally. Especially with no expected payout mechanic.
All that would happen is the 'Protect the children!' (Who shouldn't have access to money if their parents had an iota of personal responsibility. Phones and such already have a myriad ways to stop a child if you somehow cant control your credit card personally. I dunno maybe your kid beats you up.) strawman would be well and truly dead and Apple/Google would have a new valid excuse to find out and verify your age/identity. Woo.
When I was like, 8, I went to an amusement park in North Carolina called Dowdys, and they had token slots. You could only put in and win tokens.
How do you get tokens?
Buy em' at the counter. 4 for a dollar.
I left with $20, going in with like $10, and proceeded to celebrate by riding a wooden coaster. On the first hill a dragonfly flew into my mouth on the way down.
I spit the wings out but that baby was gooooone.
Since then, I've had the strength of a typical adult person plus one wingless dragonfly
If gacha was rightly classified as gambling and subject to all the applicable gambling laws, how many gachas would adapt and how many would cease to exist?
Well, I know that Final Fantasy Record Keeper is shutting down in some countries because of lootbox-as-gambling regulations possibly happening.
If gacha was rightly classified as gambling and subject to all the applicable gambling laws, how many gachas would adapt and how many would cease to exist?
This isn't really the big thing you'd think it was.
What would they have to adapt? Required age gating which phone makers would have to enforce. Which means those phone makers would need a system to regulate and control this. Which means loss of privacy for all users because it'd become a store default.
I guess they'd get code checked to see that their odds are correct but that's easy.
Gambling ain't actually regulated much at all once it's allowed legally. Especially with no expected payout mechanic.
All that would happen is the 'Protect the children!' (Who shouldn't have access to money if their parents had an iota of personal responsibility. Phones and such already have a myriad ways to stop a child if you somehow cant control your credit card personally. I dunno maybe your kid beats you up.) strawman would be well and truly dead and Apple/Google would have a new valid excuse to find out and verify your age/identity. Woo.
The thing is, getting it allowed legally across many different regions is a big hurdle in itself.
Additionally, gachas prey on people with gambling addictions far more than they do children. And they prey pretty viciously.
It's not good for children, as it contributes to turning them into future gambling addicts (even if they aren't currently spending money on them), but they're making their money on the current gambling addicts and that needs to be addressed.
Gachas are gambling, and gachas are bullshit, and they should be better regulated.
And if you don't want Apple/Google collecting information on your identity...well, there's not much you can do because they're going to do that anyways but that's a different topic entirely.
If gacha was rightly classified as gambling and subject to all the applicable gambling laws, how many gachas would adapt and how many would cease to exist?
This isn't really the big thing you'd think it was.
What would they have to adapt? Required age gating which phone makers would have to enforce. Which means those phone makers would need a system to regulate and control this. Which means loss of privacy for all users because it'd become a store default.
I guess they'd get code checked to see that their odds are correct but that's easy.
Gambling ain't actually regulated much at all once it's allowed legally. Especially with no expected payout mechanic.
All that would happen is the 'Protect the children!' (Who shouldn't have access to money if their parents had an iota of personal responsibility. Phones and such already have a myriad ways to stop a child if you somehow cant control your credit card personally. I dunno maybe your kid beats you up.) strawman would be well and truly dead and Apple/Google would have a new valid excuse to find out and verify your age/identity. Woo.
I think certain odds can be so bad, they are literally illegal under many regulations, so no I don't agree with this. Also the idea that Google and Apple don't already know all the details of your identity from your phone use is ridiculous on its face AND your statement that kids spending tons of money is a strawman instead of a terrible thing that has actually happened to MANY people leads me to believe you need to do a LOT more reading.
If gacha was rightly classified as gambling and subject to all the applicable gambling laws, how many gachas would adapt and how many would cease to exist?
This isn't really the big thing you'd think it was.
What would they have to adapt? Required age gating which phone makers would have to enforce. Which means those phone makers would need a system to regulate and control this. Which means loss of privacy for all users because it'd become a store default.
I guess they'd get code checked to see that their odds are correct but that's easy.
Gambling ain't actually regulated much at all once it's allowed legally. Especially with no expected payout mechanic.
All that would happen is the 'Protect the children!' (Who shouldn't have access to money if their parents had an iota of personal responsibility. Phones and such already have a myriad ways to stop a child if you somehow cant control your credit card personally. I dunno maybe your kid beats you up.) strawman would be well and truly dead and Apple/Google would have a new valid excuse to find out and verify your age/identity. Woo.
I think certain odds can be so bad, they are literally illegal under many regulations, so no I don't agree with this. Also the idea that Google and Apple don't already know all the details of your identity from your phone use is ridiculous on its face AND your statement that kids spending tons of money is a strawman instead of a terrible thing that has actually happened to MANY people leads me to believe you need to do a LOT more reading.
Japan actually has banned some gacha practices and has some minimum rate regulations in place iirc?
At the very least, properly classifying gacha as gambling would be a starting point to more tailored regulation. Though even just getting the basic stuff about age limits and such would be good.
Nevada requires slot machines have a minimum theoretical payout of "75% for each wager available for play on the device." They also provide monthly statistics for slot machines organized by various stuff like district and denomination
Nevada also prohibits gambling devices with a theme "derived from or based on a product that is currently and primarily intended or marketed for use by persons under 21 years of age"
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
People often assume Japan has more regulations about gacha than it does
As far as I'm aware, you just have to show your rates including the rate of getting any one specific pull, and it cannot have "kompugacha'" mechanics (Pull this set of things to trade in for the rarer thing)
People often assume Japan has more regulations about gacha than it does
As far as I'm aware, you just have to show your rates including the rate of getting any one specific pull, and it cannot have "kompugacha'" mechanics (Pull this set of things to trade in for the rarer thing)
Rates isn't a law, it's simply an internal regulation, least the last time I looked it up.
Complete gacha is the one and only actual law and that's covers a lot of things not just mobile gacha. Though even this is easily bypassed by making the gacha just give currency to buy the things you need to compete. Ala Final Gear with it's 'pull for the pilot and use tokens from the gacha to buy the Mecha' mechanic.
Also just to further highlight how kind of pointless it all is: China with it's strict ban on gambling doesn't consider Genshin gambling. Why? Because the guarantee makes it a raffle. Digital products can be very agile. If the market is big enough they'll make some minor change to slip right by and the markets that are too small will just close up.
As for kids spending money: I've done plenty of reading. 100% of the time it is the fault of the parents.
Every device has parental controls. Kids cannot own a credit card. Child accounts at banks can not only be limited to what they can spend but also alert the parent every time it is used. Stores can be setup to alert you every time a purchase is made or credit is added.
So where are these kids getting all this money to spend? Is a bad man in the alley sharking them saint quartz?
This think of the children bullshit is just a strawman for people being too lazy to take the five minutes to secure their account.
Preying on people with a gambling addiction is a whole other thing I'm not as well versed in because I'm not even sure how you'd somehow control the choices of an adult.
Putting a button that says "spend $100 instantly!" in your children's game is not the fault of parents for not realizing how absolutely scummy the video game business is right now. It's a lesson they will only need to learn once, but nothing about "Madden 2022" says "an international money smuggling ring" on its face. It's not like if you leave a kid alone with Netflix, they can spend hundreds of dollars in an hour. The video games the parents might remember from back in their day would also not be possible to do that with. Instead of saying "Well, parents should find out about the massively unethical behavior in today's videogames and then take protective steps to avoid letting that damage their family's finances," we could instead... ban that shit?
finally started tales of arise, party member question
i'm not sure I fully understand playing as rinwell, stacking charged spells seems slow and bad? does she get better later in the game when you can presumably just cast the higher level spells normally? or should i just not play as her
finally started tales of arise, party member question
i'm not sure I fully understand playing as rinwell, stacking charged spells seems slow and bad? does she get better later in the game when you can presumably just cast the higher level spells normally? or should i just not play as her
Rinwell was my favorite character in the game to play as.
Once you start unlocking her passives, you can get ones that decrease your cast time when you use spells in a combo. That'll let you cast a couple fast spells, then cast more powerful ones (which you can unlock as hard-castable spells) much quicker.
finally started tales of arise, party member question
i'm not sure I fully understand playing as rinwell, stacking charged spells seems slow and bad? does she get better later in the game when you can presumably just cast the higher level spells normally? or should i just not play as her
Rinwell was my favorite character in the game to play as.
Once you start unlocking her passives, you can get ones that decrease your cast time when you use spells in a combo. That'll let you cast a couple fast spells, then cast more powerful ones (which you can unlock as hard-castable spells) much quicker.
hmm, ok. casting while moving also looked good. need more sp
I put her in goofy sunglasses and I'm like "now we're cookin'"
Daebunz on
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Yea rinwell gets super strong with time. And with enough cast speed dare I say completely busted as she chain casts the biggest spells like a boss?
The video games the parents might remember from back in their day would also not be possible to do that with.
“Back in the day” is on the cusp of being outdated.
These video game gambling shenanigans started around the time Mass Effect 3 came out. A 13 year old who played ME3 on release is now old enough to have a few kids.
The video games the parents might remember from back in their day would also not be possible to do that with.
“Back in the day” is on the cusp of being outdated.
These video game gambling shenanigans started around the time Mass Effect 3 came out. A 13 year old who played ME3 on release is now old enough to have a few kids.
Posts
Oh...I may have to look at it again then.
i don't know what you parsed "super expensive" as, but i promise you, the number you have in your head is significantly lower than reality
Over $400!?
No doubt! I'm sure they exist. The idea of gacha is basically removing portion of gameplay that many people would normally find part of the draw and replacing it with the real money gambling. Remove that real money gambling and add back in that normal part of gameplay and the improvement is gigantic.
Not to mention the fact that the game will always need to be built around the gacha aspect means, despite what some gacha folks may try and tell you, you can't actually just ignore the gacha. Whether you interact with it or not it's built into the game.
Yeah I looked it up so my initial impression of it being glorified gambling still stands.
but also, if you want to start spending money to do that pull from 0, they're not gonna say no
Edit: Bad math misspeaking here on my first try, but just to correct the sense of scale, completing an entire event and getting all the currency rewards from it might be good for say, 3 10 pulls in this game. There MIGHT be two events in a month, maybe only one. So saving for twenty 10 pulls through just playing would be in the neighborhood of 6 months+. There's good rewards from playing the main story, but those are one off, so you could easily deplete the entire campaign of the game on ONE banner and then never have that resource again.
I give Genshin Impact a lot of grace here just because it has actual gameplay. Maybe there's stuff at the high end raids where I’d need a fully speced out team. But rolling with the default characters and my c0 and c1 free pulls has been fine for my dozens of hours of open world exploration.
It’s an incredible game with a scammy gambling mechanic bolted on the side.
A lot of them don't include free currency in the pity system too
Speaking of Revived Witch, I saw an ad for it a little bit ago. Is that game actually good?
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
Don't buy gems though. Never buy gems. The real world currency to in game currency conversion is fucking awful.
* I'm totally on-board with the premise that a 0 card beats everything, and that the enemy is allowed to cancel a super move already in progress by playing one. The same option is available to you; fair's fair. What I take issue with is the fact that most boss characters' 0-value card is a combo move, and you're not allowed to play anything while in hitstun. Meanwhile, your 0 cards are all single-hit slappers. So on your end you can cancel boss specials with a slap on the wrist, and on their end they can not only cancel your supers but also blow away half your health or more, because they basically start their combo for free when you're reeling from the card-break. Insofar as the game takes pains to make the player and the enemy play by the same rules, that's infuriating.
How do you get tokens?
Buy em' at the counter. 4 for a dollar.
I left with $20, going in with like $10, and proceeded to celebrate by riding a wooden coaster. On the first hill a dragonfly flew into my mouth on the way down.
I spit the wings out but that baby was gooooone.
Since then, I've had the strength of a typical adult person plus one wingless dragonfly
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
This isn't really the big thing you'd think it was.
What would they have to adapt? Required age gating which phone makers would have to enforce. Which means those phone makers would need a system to regulate and control this. Which means loss of privacy for all users because it'd become a store default.
I guess they'd get code checked to see that their odds are correct but that's easy.
Gambling ain't actually regulated much at all once it's allowed legally. Especially with no expected payout mechanic.
All that would happen is the 'Protect the children!' (Who shouldn't have access to money if their parents had an iota of personal responsibility. Phones and such already have a myriad ways to stop a child if you somehow cant control your credit card personally. I dunno maybe your kid beats you up.) strawman would be well and truly dead and Apple/Google would have a new valid excuse to find out and verify your age/identity. Woo.
Yeah, but was the dragonfly SR, SSR, or UR?
Well, I know that Final Fantasy Record Keeper is shutting down in some countries because of lootbox-as-gambling regulations possibly happening.
The thing is, getting it allowed legally across many different regions is a big hurdle in itself.
Additionally, gachas prey on people with gambling addictions far more than they do children. And they prey pretty viciously.
It's not good for children, as it contributes to turning them into future gambling addicts (even if they aren't currently spending money on them), but they're making their money on the current gambling addicts and that needs to be addressed.
Gachas are gambling, and gachas are bullshit, and they should be better regulated.
And if you don't want Apple/Google collecting information on your identity...well, there's not much you can do because they're going to do that anyways but that's a different topic entirely.
I think certain odds can be so bad, they are literally illegal under many regulations, so no I don't agree with this. Also the idea that Google and Apple don't already know all the details of your identity from your phone use is ridiculous on its face AND your statement that kids spending tons of money is a strawman instead of a terrible thing that has actually happened to MANY people leads me to believe you need to do a LOT more reading.
Japan actually has banned some gacha practices and has some minimum rate regulations in place iirc?
At the very least, properly classifying gacha as gambling would be a starting point to more tailored regulation. Though even just getting the basic stuff about age limits and such would be good.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Nevada also prohibits gambling devices with a theme "derived from or based on a product that is currently and primarily intended or marketed for use by persons under 21 years of age"
As far as I'm aware, you just have to show your rates including the rate of getting any one specific pull, and it cannot have "kompugacha'" mechanics (Pull this set of things to trade in for the rarer thing)
Rates isn't a law, it's simply an internal regulation, least the last time I looked it up.
Complete gacha is the one and only actual law and that's covers a lot of things not just mobile gacha. Though even this is easily bypassed by making the gacha just give currency to buy the things you need to compete. Ala Final Gear with it's 'pull for the pilot and use tokens from the gacha to buy the Mecha' mechanic.
Also just to further highlight how kind of pointless it all is: China with it's strict ban on gambling doesn't consider Genshin gambling. Why? Because the guarantee makes it a raffle. Digital products can be very agile. If the market is big enough they'll make some minor change to slip right by and the markets that are too small will just close up.
As for kids spending money: I've done plenty of reading. 100% of the time it is the fault of the parents.
Every device has parental controls. Kids cannot own a credit card. Child accounts at banks can not only be limited to what they can spend but also alert the parent every time it is used. Stores can be setup to alert you every time a purchase is made or credit is added.
So where are these kids getting all this money to spend? Is a bad man in the alley sharking them saint quartz?
This think of the children bullshit is just a strawman for people being too lazy to take the five minutes to secure their account.
Preying on people with a gambling addiction is a whole other thing I'm not as well versed in because I'm not even sure how you'd somehow control the choices of an adult.
Once you start unlocking her passives, you can get ones that decrease your cast time when you use spells in a combo. That'll let you cast a couple fast spells, then cast more powerful ones (which you can unlock as hard-castable spells) much quicker.
I put her in goofy sunglasses and I'm like "now we're cookin'"
If the anime adaptation that started a couple months ago is any indicator, it's going to be bafflingly insane.
It's Level 5, so I'd expect it to come west eventually.
“Back in the day” is on the cusp of being outdated.
These video game gambling shenanigans started around the time Mass Effect 3 came out. A 13 year old who played ME3 on release is now old enough to have a few kids.
In this economy!?