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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] - Tories Dropping like Johnson's Flies

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Also I just threw my back out laughing over Gove getting sacked for disloyalty.

    Michael Gove, you say? Surely not. Who could have foreseen etc

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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »


    Pippa is the Daily Mirror political editor.

    All kicking off now.

    LOL

    Maybe Boris does think he's about to lose his job if he's taking his last chance to sack Gove while he can? It's probably the reason he gave him a job in the first place!

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Not having trouble, they just can't as they all said no and the whips were all "yeah, fair enough, probably the right choice".

    He's caretaker PM til the new one is elected isn't he, and not supposed to do introduce any major legislation but I do wonder if he'll just defy that convention and call an election if they oust him knowing he has supporters and literally all the other parties would be desperate for it to happen. Force his replacement to fight it and then come when it's an inevitable loss, point out that he had an 80 point majority. Or do elections have to be very close to when they are called for? You can't just set a date for late August, early Sep once you know who's going to be next?

    GE's are held 25 days after the queen dissolves parliament. Assuming she just does it as soon as she's asked you can more or less pick your date.

    I'm actually curious how the PM calling a GE would interact with his party's attempt to oust him? Is there a certain point (before he loses) where his power to call one is suspended? Or would the Queen just see what's brewing and let that resolve first?

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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2022
    Casual wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Not having trouble, they just can't as they all said no and the whips were all "yeah, fair enough, probably the right choice".

    He's caretaker PM til the new one is elected isn't he, and not supposed to do introduce any major legislation but I do wonder if he'll just defy that convention and call an election if they oust him knowing he has supporters and literally all the other parties would be desperate for it to happen. Force his replacement to fight it and then come when it's an inevitable loss, point out that he had an 80 point majority. Or do elections have to be very close to when they are called for? You can't just set a date for late August, early Sep once you know who's going to be next?

    GE's are held 25 days after the queen dissolves parliament. Assuming she just does it as soon as she's asked you can more or less pick your date.

    I'm actually curious how the PM calling a GE would interact with his party's attempt to oust him? Is there a certain point (before he loses) where his power to call one is suspended? Or would the Queen just see what's brewing and let that resolve first?

    Twitter commentary was referencing the Lascelles Principles as potentially in play as justification for the Queen to refuse dissolution.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Not having trouble, they just can't as they all said no and the whips were all "yeah, fair enough, probably the right choice".

    He's caretaker PM til the new one is elected isn't he, and not supposed to do introduce any major legislation but I do wonder if he'll just defy that convention and call an election if they oust him knowing he has supporters and literally all the other parties would be desperate for it to happen. Force his replacement to fight it and then come when it's an inevitable loss, point out that he had an 80 point majority. Or do elections have to be very close to when they are called for? You can't just set a date for late August, early Sep once you know who's going to be next?

    GE's are held 25 days after the queen dissolves parliament. Assuming she just does it as soon as she's asked you can more or less pick your date.

    I'm actually curious how the PM calling a GE would interact with his party's attempt to oust him? Is there a certain point (before he loses) where his power to call one is suspended? Or would the Queen just see what's brewing and let that resolve first?

    Probably one of those things that's not been tested? From what I've seen the PM has the final say on when to go to the Queen not parliament, the Queen can in theory tell him to get fucked but she would kick off a constitutional crisis.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited July 2022
    To any Americans just joining us: a right-wing bigot with stupid hair is refusing to give up his position as leader of the country. The reason we find this amusing instead of terrifying is because you can't buy AK-47s in supermarkets here.
    Scott Gray is a comic writer/artist.

    klemming on
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Not having trouble, they just can't as they all said no and the whips were all "yeah, fair enough, probably the right choice".

    He's caretaker PM til the new one is elected isn't he, and not supposed to do introduce any major legislation but I do wonder if he'll just defy that convention and call an election if they oust him knowing he has supporters and literally all the other parties would be desperate for it to happen. Force his replacement to fight it and then come when it's an inevitable loss, point out that he had an 80 point majority. Or do elections have to be very close to when they are called for? You can't just set a date for late August, early Sep once you know who's going to be next?

    GE's are held 25 days after the queen dissolves parliament. Assuming she just does it as soon as she's asked you can more or less pick your date.

    I'm actually curious how the PM calling a GE would interact with his party's attempt to oust him? Is there a certain point (before he loses) where his power to call one is suspended? Or would the Queen just see what's brewing and let that resolve first?

    Twitter commentary was referencing the Lascelles Principles as potentially in play as justification for the Queen to refuse dissolution.

    Ah, cool. If they're indeed being applied, then "finding another prime minister who could govern for a reasonable period with a working majority in the House of Commons" seems like it would fit the situation of the Prime Minister facing internal confidence/leadership issues.

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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Not having trouble, they just can't as they all said no and the whips were all "yeah, fair enough, probably the right choice".

    He's caretaker PM til the new one is elected isn't he, and not supposed to do introduce any major legislation but I do wonder if he'll just defy that convention and call an election if they oust him knowing he has supporters and literally all the other parties would be desperate for it to happen. Force his replacement to fight it and then come when it's an inevitable loss, point out that he had an 80 point majority. Or do elections have to be very close to when they are called for? You can't just set a date for late August, early Sep once you know who's going to be next?

    GE's are held 25 days after the queen dissolves parliament. Assuming she just does it as soon as she's asked you can more or less pick your date.

    I'm actually curious how the PM calling a GE would interact with his party's attempt to oust him? Is there a certain point (before he loses) where his power to call one is suspended? Or would the Queen just see what's brewing and let that resolve first?

    Probably one of those things that's not been tested? From what I've seen the PM has the final say on when to go to the Queen not parliament, the Queen can in theory tell him to get fucked but she would kick off a constitutional crisis.

    Imagine the Queen going on telly, telling Johnson to get fucked, then dying

    The last act of her reign being to fuck it up for Charles

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Jamie Carragher (!) is having a go at this Twitter meme lark.


    Whelp

    Guess I didn't need to sleep tonight anyway.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited July 2022
    In case anyone is missing the reference it’s a copy of Kevin Keenan’s famous outburst the year Newcastle were pipped to the title by Man U.

    Bogart on
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Was that league or union

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    No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »

    Boris Johnson now confronted with news that Zahawi, Shapps, Hart et al will be waiting for him in Downing Street telling him to go. “So you say,” he retorts. This is excruciating.

    Rowena Mason is deputy political editor at the Guardian.

    In theory, he could just say "no", couldn't he? And suddenly announce a substantial reshuffle...

    Holy shit, What a fucking loser !

    And I say that as someone that lived under Trump.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Welsh Secretary just resigned, so we’re in the forties for resignations now.

    Plus Gove.

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    tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks OaklandRegistered User regular
    I mean, even if the 1922 committee changes the rules, and he loses a second VONC - does he have to leave? Is there an actual mechanism to remove the PM if he refuses to resign? Or is it all based on assumed norms and behaviors?

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Not having trouble, they just can't as they all said no and the whips were all "yeah, fair enough, probably the right choice".

    He's caretaker PM til the new one is elected isn't he, and not supposed to do introduce any major legislation but I do wonder if he'll just defy that convention and call an election if they oust him knowing he has supporters and literally all the other parties would be desperate for it to happen. Force his replacement to fight it and then come when it's an inevitable loss, point out that he had an 80 point majority. Or do elections have to be very close to when they are called for? You can't just set a date for late August, early Sep once you know who's going to be next?

    GE's are held 25 days after the queen dissolves parliament. Assuming she just does it as soon as she's asked you can more or less pick your date.

    I'm actually curious how the PM calling a GE would interact with his party's attempt to oust him? Is there a certain point (before he loses) where his power to call one is suspended? Or would the Queen just see what's brewing and let that resolve first?

    Probably one of those things that's not been tested? From what I've seen the PM has the final say on when to go to the Queen not parliament, the Queen can in theory tell him to get fucked but she would kick off a constitutional crisis.

    Imagine the Queen going on telly, telling Johnson to get fucked, then dying

    The last act of her reign being to fuck it up for Charles

    What happens if those two incidents happen in reverse?

    Should she pass before a dissolution of the government is called, what's the requisite length of time before the coronation? Is there a mourning period first (for during peacetime), or does Charles get the hat the next day?

    Because I can absolutely see Boris being the kind of craven shit that would try to hang out long enough that that buys him some more time, if there's a significant period of absence in the monarchy.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    I shall refuse on the beaches, I shall refuse on the landing grounds, I shall refuse in the fields and in the streets, I shall refuse in the hills; I shall never resign.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Is the party actually willing to force him to go if he keeps on going "nuh uh"?

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Couscous wrote: »
    Is the party actually willing to force him to go if he keeps on going "nuh uh"?

    At present the backbench committee that can change the rules to allow another vote of no confidence is having the executive elected on Monday. It’s expected the new executive will agree to the changes and another vote will follow shortly after.

    The timetable may speed up, I suppose, but we are absolutely in uncharted waters right now and no one knows what will happen.

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    Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    edited July 2022


    This is only 15 minutes old and it's already out of date. (tweet is a spreadsheet of the resignations of the day by a sky news producer)

    Bad-Beat on
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    BBC reporter.



    Is he demanding they perform an exorcism or something? What does this even mean? He is, as they say, having a very normal one.

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    Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular


    As extraordinary as today has been, the reality of a serving member of the Cabinet, live on air, saying the Prime Minister should resign (whilst they themselves choose to remain in Government) is incredible.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I mean, even if the 1922 committee changes the rules, and he loses a second VONC - does he have to leave? Is there an actual mechanism to remove the PM if he refuses to resign? Or is it all based on assumed norms and behaviors?

    If he ceases to lead his party, then he's not Prime Minister any more.

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    Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    edited July 2022
    Bogart wrote: »
    BBC reporter.

    Is he demanding they perform an exorcism or something? What does this even mean? He is, as they say, having a very normal one.

    Dipping their hands in Caesars blood (after betraying and murdering him) is a Shakespeare quote I think

    Dis' on
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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Dis' wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    BBC reporter.

    Is he demanding they perform an exorcism or something? What does this even mean? He is, as they say, having a very normal one.

    Dipping their hands in Caesars blood (after betraying and murdering him) is a Shakespeare quote I think

    If needs must.

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    BBC reporter.



    Is he demanding they perform an exorcism or something? What does this even mean? He is, as they say, having a very normal one.

    He is saying they will have to murder him.

    wbBv3fj.png
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    tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks OaklandRegistered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    BBC reporter.



    Is he demanding they perform an exorcism or something? What does this even mean? He is, as they say, having a very normal one.

    I mean, I'm sure many of his "colleagues" would happily jump at the chance to literally stab him in the back. As long as they weren't left holding the knife.

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    ArchangleArchangle Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Not having trouble, they just can't as they all said no and the whips were all "yeah, fair enough, probably the right choice".

    He's caretaker PM til the new one is elected isn't he, and not supposed to do introduce any major legislation but I do wonder if he'll just defy that convention and call an election if they oust him knowing he has supporters and literally all the other parties would be desperate for it to happen. Force his replacement to fight it and then come when it's an inevitable loss, point out that he had an 80 point majority. Or do elections have to be very close to when they are called for? You can't just set a date for late August, early Sep once you know who's going to be next?

    GE's are held 25 days after the queen dissolves parliament. Assuming she just does it as soon as she's asked you can more or less pick your date.

    I'm actually curious how the PM calling a GE would interact with his party's attempt to oust him? Is there a certain point (before he loses) where his power to call one is suspended? Or would the Queen just see what's brewing and let that resolve first?

    Probably one of those things that's not been tested? From what I've seen the PM has the final say on when to go to the Queen not parliament, the Queen can in theory tell him to get fucked but she would kick off a constitutional crisis.

    Imagine the Queen going on telly, telling Johnson to get fucked, then dying

    The last act of her reign being to fuck it up for Charles

    What happens if those two incidents happen in reverse?
    I think the Queen dying and THEN going on telly telling Johnson to get fucked would be sufficiently stunning as to give Johnson a bit of a reprieve.

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    GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    I shall refuse on the beaches, I shall refuse on the landing grounds, I shall refuse in the fields and in the streets, I shall refuse in the hills; I shall never resign.

    Where does the line "and remember that you can always take one with you" come into play?

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Not having trouble, they just can't as they all said no and the whips were all "yeah, fair enough, probably the right choice".

    He's caretaker PM til the new one is elected isn't he, and not supposed to do introduce any major legislation but I do wonder if he'll just defy that convention and call an election if they oust him knowing he has supporters and literally all the other parties would be desperate for it to happen. Force his replacement to fight it and then come when it's an inevitable loss, point out that he had an 80 point majority. Or do elections have to be very close to when they are called for? You can't just set a date for late August, early Sep once you know who's going to be next?

    GE's are held 25 days after the queen dissolves parliament. Assuming she just does it as soon as she's asked you can more or less pick your date.

    I'm actually curious how the PM calling a GE would interact with his party's attempt to oust him? Is there a certain point (before he loses) where his power to call one is suspended? Or would the Queen just see what's brewing and let that resolve first?

    Probably one of those things that's not been tested? From what I've seen the PM has the final say on when to go to the Queen not parliament, the Queen can in theory tell him to get fucked but she would kick off a constitutional crisis.

    Imagine the Queen going on telly, telling Johnson to get fucked, then dying

    The last act of her reign being to fuck it up for Charles

    What happens if those two incidents happen in reverse?

    Should she pass before a dissolution of the government is called, what's the requisite length of time before the coronation? Is there a mourning period first (for during peacetime), or does Charles get the hat the next day?

    Because I can absolutely see Boris being the kind of craven shit that would try to hang out long enough that that buys him some more time, if there's a significant period of absence in the monarchy.

    Sede Vacante is only really a thing for Popes, because the Catholic Church is technically the world's oldest democracy. (just with very restricted suffrage) There's a reason the saying is: The King is dead; long live the King. Not: The King is dead; somebody hire an event planner.

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Interregnum is definitely a thing but probably wouldn't have any real effect in the UK where the Queen doesn't actually do anything and where the secession is well known and already planned.

    wbBv3fj.png
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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Interregnum is definitely a thing but probably wouldn't have any real effect in the UK where the Queen doesn't actually do anything and where the secession is well known and already planned.

    im gonna jump in with a claim just to spice it up

    get some genealogy diagrams and letters from 1500 out of a box and go to court, see how long i can gum it up (or become king)

    obF2Wuw.png
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    Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Interregnum is definitely a thing but probably wouldn't have any real effect in the UK where the Queen doesn't actually do anything and where the secession is well known and already planned.

    :s

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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    I mean, even if the 1922 committee changes the rules, and he loses a second VONC - does he have to leave? Is there an actual mechanism to remove the PM if he refuses to resign? Or is it all based on assumed norms and behaviors?

    If he loses a VONC and still refuses to leave we're in the territory of the police dragging him out the building. The conservative party won the last election so if he isn't the leader of the conservatives anymore he can't be PM unless he holds and wins another election with his own party.

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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular


    even when he wins people flame him its hard out there for a keir

    obF2Wuw.png
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited July 2022
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Interregnum is definitely a thing but probably wouldn't have any real effect in the UK where the Queen doesn't actually do anything and where the secession is well known and already planned.

    im gonna jump in with a claim just to spice it up

    get some genealogy diagrams and letters from 1500 out of a box and go to court, see how long i can gum it up (or become king)

    You can count on my schteel

    Captain Inertia on
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