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The [Steam] Thread: Supporting Necromancy Charities

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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    SanderJK wrote: »
    Redfall when it came out was Microsoft internal development, but it was started before MS bought Bethesda. And Bethesda told their acquired studio Arkane to make a GaaS game when everyone thought that's where the money was, and by the time it was halfway done that idea had vanished. Though no-one would ever make a public statement on it, I bet it was never considered good enough and has gotten minimal support to make true on what appeared in trailers and marketing. And now it got 1 big patch for nobody and it's dead. From the POV of Arkane you get a new boss who says that you must stop doing what you're good at, and then that new boss gets a new boss who doesn't believe in it. Which is why a lot of Arkane people left in 21/22, when the industry was hiring.

    Lamplighters League is in some way the opposite and some ways similar, Paradox acquired HBS just as they launched Battletech. HBS wanted to make another tactical RPG which they could, but Paradox didn't want them to use any outside IP, because they were afraid whoever owned that IP would squeeze the profitability from the product. But they did get to make a game in the genre they're good at, with a Gamepass contract to limit the risk. When the product got close to release, Paradox didn't think it was good enough to make any money and fired most of the studio before the game even got out. Now they've split.
    This more akin to the whole Embracer fiasco, where Paradox went and bought a ton of stuff when money was cheap but limply support everyone, so all of it ends up losing money. And now loaning money is expensive, so a lot of studios pay the price.

    Meanwhile Gamepass is reportedly more stingy with contracts. It apparently was more or less a nobrainer a few years ago, but I guess because Gamepass hasn't grown like MS wanted too (And they're behind on their targets for Xbox sales too), less people get contracts, and those contracts are less good. And stuff like Lamplighters makes me wonder if stuff like Metacritic bonuses may get tied to Gamepass contracts, because otherwise underfunding a Gamepass game so you limit your losses may remain viable, even if it's bad for Gamepass, the people who work at the studio, and the industry in general.

    Self fulfilling prophecy 🎶🎶🤮

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    To the surprise of literally no-one, the Metal Gear Solid Master Collection Vol. 1 on PC isn't really ready for prime time yet at launch. I haven't been able to dig into all of it yet but I've seen a run-down or two and so far played some MGS3 on my PC.

    MGS2 & 3 do not work yet under Linux or on Steam Deck, even with Proton Experimental or GE. I imagine Valve and/or the GE community will have this fixed as soon as possible but it's worth noting for now. MGS1 does apparently work. (Edit: I can now verify this, I played a chunk of it on my Deck with no issues beyond what's inherent to the game or port.)

    MGS3 ran exclusive fullscreen on my PC (after getting past the Master Collection wrapper menu which is nice and sharp but has at least one typo, never a good QA sign) and forced a resolution change (which always looks clunky on my machine). I'm honestly not sure what it changed to but it looked 720p-ish. That would fit the resolution the HD Collection version - which this is - was originally built for on PS3 and Xbox 360. However there were stretched Windows assets like the loading spinner mouse pointer, and Nvidia driver resolution warning, which made me wonder if this was 1024x768 stretched to 16:9 or something. The in-game aspect ratio was correct though. On the plus side, it ran at a rock-solid 60fps and my PC barely bothered spinning up its fans, and when it did it wasn't any more than if I was just staring at my desktop. Bodes well for good Deck battery life down the line, or indeed good battery life if playing on an unplugged laptop. The sound was also noticeably louder than most games, possibly due to the lower dynamic range expected of a game nearly 20 years ago? Usually I have my speakers at 50% or more for a lot of games, I turned down to 30% for this one. Clarity was excellent though, with no distortion. I swear I was hearing details in the sound I'd not noticed before.

    Some people seem to be reporting difficulty getting optional things to install, such as the Digital Graphic Novels (presented here in video form) in the Bonus Content, Japanese laguage packs, etc. Not dug into that yet myself. The Steam pages have been updated to say they do have keyboard controls available but again, I've not looked into that. Speaking of controls, MGS2 & 3 use the Xbox 360 versions' slightly modified - and IMO, improved - control setup insofar as they do not require the PS2/3's pressure-sensitive buttons.

    I did see somewhere that apparently you can't Alt-Tab from the games (2 & 3 at least I'd assume) which might be a side-effect of the forced exclusive fullscreen, but also that apparently Konami has said this will be addressed in a future update. (Edit: apparently that can uncap the framerate in MGS1 which, as an old game built around a specific framerate, can lead to unexpected and unpleasant - probably unplayable - weirdness.)

    I expected - and personally was fine with - barebones ports, or even just emulations, with some interesting bonus content; and while that's all there, there's obviously issues that need addressing. Hopefully Konami will be good with getting some patches out in a timely fashion to address the criticisms. But this is Konami so who the hell knows. These are great games, albeit old and idiosyncratic ones, and they deserve to be presented with the minimum of obstacles, even if they're not enhanced in almost any way.

    Jazz on
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    DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    Mannnnn 22fps with a 5800x3D and 4090 combo at 4k on Cities: Skyline 2

    Hovering around 96-98% gpu usage and 30%$ cpu usage.

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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    Dixon wrote: »
    Mannnnn 22fps with a 5800x3D and 4090 combo at 4k on Cities: Skyline 2

    Hovering around 96-98% gpu usage and 30%$ cpu usage.

    There's easier ways to signal the mothership

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    DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    Dixon wrote: »
    Mannnnn 22fps with a 5800x3D and 4090 combo at 4k on Cities: Skyline 2

    Hovering around 96-98% gpu usage and 30%$ cpu usage.

    7800X3D
    RX6950XT
    1440P, High Settings

    30FPS in the empty lot, GPU 95% usage.
    4nysr2yelhl5.png

    steam_sig.png( < . . .
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    SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    SanderJK wrote: »
    Redfall when it came out was Microsoft internal development, but it was started before MS bought Bethesda. And Bethesda told their acquired studio Arkane to make a GaaS game when everyone thought that's where the money was, and by the time it was halfway done that idea had vanished. Though no-one would ever make a public statement on it, I bet it was never considered good enough and has gotten minimal support to make true on what appeared in trailers and marketing. And now it got 1 big patch for nobody and it's dead. From the POV of Arkane you get a new boss who says that you must stop doing what you're good at, and then that new boss gets a new boss who doesn't believe in it. Which is why a lot of Arkane people left in 21/22, when the industry was hiring.

    Lamplighters League is in some way the opposite and some ways similar, Paradox acquired HBS just as they launched Battletech. HBS wanted to make another tactical RPG which they could, but Paradox didn't want them to use any outside IP, because they were afraid whoever owned that IP would squeeze the profitability from the product. But they did get to make a game in the genre they're good at, with a Gamepass contract to limit the risk. When the product got close to release, Paradox didn't think it was good enough to make any money and fired most of the studio before the game even got out. Now they've split.
    This more akin to the whole Embracer fiasco, where Paradox went and bought a ton of stuff when money was cheap but limply support everyone, so all of it ends up losing money. And now loaning money is expensive, so a lot of studios pay the price.

    Meanwhile Gamepass is reportedly more stingy with contracts. It apparently was more or less a nobrainer a few years ago, but I guess because Gamepass hasn't grown like MS wanted too (And they're behind on their targets for Xbox sales too), less people get contracts, and those contracts are less good. And stuff like Lamplighters makes me wonder if stuff like Metacritic bonuses may get tied to Gamepass contracts, because otherwise underfunding a Gamepass game so you limit your losses may remain viable, even if it's bad for Gamepass, the people who work at the studio, and the industry in general.

    Self fulfilling prophecy 🎶🎶🤮

    Yeah and in some ways its hugely destructive. I bet spending 20% more on Redfall nets you a 7.5/10 game, and 30% more gets you an 8 or 8.5
    But would it have sold? Who knows... and the numbercrunchers kill the game, let your studio limp, and you have thousands of man hours spent on making a broken toy.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Yeah the thing with Redfall is at least according to reviews post-patch the combat and such is mostly fine, but that can’t really make up for the game just not having content. It really would need FLC or even DLC to be worth it, and most likely no one is going to invest in that for Redfall.

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    KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    Yeah the thing with Redfall is at least according to reviews post-patch the combat and such is mostly fine, but that can’t really make up for the game just not having content. It really would need FLC or even DLC to be worth it, and most likely no one is going to invest in that for Redfall.

    Like for the low-low price of gamepass, Corrigan and I had a relatively good time and played most of the first area before falling off.

    But there was one area was just mostly empty and it wasn't even for story reasons. It was unnerving at first cause you're thinking something is going to jump out but nothing, nada, so it just became a tedious run through area forevermore.

    Combined with the bugs it just wasn't worth while.

    Watching the story and what not there was good stuff to be had and I'll forever remember the sea wall, but it's just an echo of what it could have been.

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    DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »

    Yeah, I have MG1, MGS1 and MGS2 on GOG.

    I guess the main attraction to the collection was MG2 and MGS3 which has never been on PC before.

    But I really never though Konami out of all companies would do justice to the Metal Gear legacy.

    steam_sig.png( < . . .
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    Moar Metal Gear Shenanigans:

    For preorders you seemingly have to go to SteamDB to associate the free DLCs to your account, since they don't show up on the Steam pages for the games and the links in the games' menus just kick you to the Steam store homepage. (Info on doing this is here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2131630/discussions/0/3874843885715609644/ )

    The DLCs are for the different international versions of the games, and for the Digital Graphic Novels in the bonus content. That's actually not a bad way to have done it on the face of it, it can save you a chunk of storage space if you don't want everything at once (e.g. the DGNs are 8 and 11GB each for 1 & 2 respectively), and I wish things like the Steam release of Far Cry 6 did something like this rather than just forcing 175GB on you for a 64GB game. But the execution here was ham-fisted at best. Potentially fixable at least.

    Weirdly, the pre-order package and the post-release package have different Steam IDs. https://steamdb.info/sub/886310/apps/ and https://steamdb.info/sub/886313/apps/ respectively. This probably is related to the DLCs not showing up properly for pre-order customers.

    Further to the international versions, this REALLY matters for MGS1. Someone in North America will have to tell me if the situation is reversed there, but here in the UK it downloaded the 50Hz PAL version of the game by default (included in the European Pack part of the DLC as listed on SteamDB, but it was the base game for me). This version of the game runs at 25fps, and unlike modern games is slower to actually play as well because of this, as well as being able to hear it in the audio. Now, this is the game as it was released in the UK originally so I'm sure there's at least SOME crazy purists out there who will want to play it this way (in fact I probably know - well, knew - one); also it includes various other European languages. But anyone else will want to play in 60Hz/30fps using either the North American version or one of the Japanese releases. They, thankfully, are in the DLCs (at least here, as I say they may well be the default if you're in NA/JP). I saw something about European players not being able to access the NA version because of some unspecified licensing issue, but here in the UK at least I was able to access it and add it to my account, and it runs the way it should. The JP DLC includes the Japanese-only (originally) re-release titled Metal Gear Solid Integral, which upgraded the original Japanese release with features the NA/EU versions already had like various difficulty levels and English subs/VO, and also included the VR Missions/Special Missions expansion, and even an unlockable first-person mode (not like just looking around in FP like in the original but moving around too). Obviously MGS Integral is a pretty decent draw for the old hardcore fan.

    Also, Eurogamer reports that the code for Vol. 1 includes references to MGS: Peace Walker, MGS4, and MGS5, leading to further speculation that the implied Vol. 2 down the line will include at least all these titles (MGS4 being the big kahuna there as that game remains, to date, a PS3 exclusive). As @The_Spaniard pointed out in chat (cheers Span!), MGS1, 2, and 3 are the headliners in Vol. 1 and on the box art, but the collection also includes several other games (MSX versions of MG1 & MG2, and NES versions of MG1 & Snake's Revenge), so the possibility seems good for other games to be included such as MGS: Ghost Babel (the hugely well-regarded GBC game), and maybe Metal Gear Acid 1 & 2 from the PSP. The MGS1 remake MGS: The Twin Snakes from the Gamecube does, of course, still seem extremely unlikely, sadly, which I think is a crying shame - I'd love to see that get the HD Collection treatment that MGS2 & 3 got back in 2011, those versions of course being the ones included here.

    Jazz on
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    DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    Drovek wrote: »
    Dixon wrote: »
    Mannnnn 22fps with a 5800x3D and 4090 combo at 4k on Cities: Skyline 2

    Hovering around 96-98% gpu usage and 30%$ cpu usage.

    7800X3D
    RX6950XT
    1440P, High Settings

    30FPS in the empty lot, GPU 95% usage.
    4nysr2yelhl5.png

    Update on this: reading some internet comments, apparently disabling Depth of Field and lowering a bit the Volumetric stuff you gain some FPS. In my case it jumped to 45-50 while playing.

    Now, I just did the tutorial and didn't get to build a humongous city, but it was fairly solid at 45-50fps no matter what. Still having the GPU at close to 100% was really weird and seems like there's some deeper issues with optimizaiton because it's a weird behaviour for a game.

    steam_sig.png( < . . .
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    StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular

    Jazz wrote: »
    Moar Metal Gear Shenanigans:

    For preorders you seemingly have to go to SteamDB to associate the free DLCs to your account, since they don't show up on the Steam pages for the games and the links in the games' menus just kick you to the Steam store homepage. (Info on doing this is here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2131630/discussions/0/3874843885715609644/ )

    The DLCs are for the different international versions of the games, and for the Digital Graphic Novels in the bonus content. That's actually not a bad way to have done it on the face of it, it can save you a chunk of storage space if you don't want everything at once (e.g. the DGNs are 8 and 11GB each for 1 & 2 respectively), and I wish things like the Steam release of Far Cry 6 did something like this rather than just forcing 175GB on you for a 64GB game. But the execution here was ham-fisted at best. Potentially fixable at least.

    Weirdly, the pre-order package and the post-release package have different Steam IDs. https://steamdb.info/sub/886310/apps/ and https://steamdb.info/sub/886313/apps/ respectively. This probably is related to the DLCs not showing up properly for pre-order customers.

    Further to the international versions, this REALLY matters for MGS1. Someone in North America will have to tell me if the situation is reversed there, but here in the UK it downloaded the 50Hz PAL version of the game by default (included in the European Pack part of the DLC as listed on SteamDB, but it was the base game for me). This version of the game runs at 25fps, and unlike modern games is slower to actually play as well because of this, as well as being able to hear it in the audio. Now, this is the game as it was released in the UK originally so I'm sure there's at least SOME crazy purists out there who will want to play it this way (in fact I probably know - well, knew - one); also it includes various other European languages. But anyone else will want to play in 60Hz/30fps using either the North American version or one of the Japanese releases. They, thankfully, are in the DLCs (at least here, as I say they may well be the default if you're in NA/JP). I saw something about European players not being able to access the NA version because of some unspecified licensing issue, but here in the UK at least I was able to access it and add it to my account, and it runs the way it should. The JP DLC includes the Japanese-only (originally) re-release titled Metal Gear Solid Integral, which upgraded the original Japanese release with features the NA/EU versions already had like various difficulty levels and English subs/VO, and also included the VR Missions/Special Missions expansion, and even an unlockable first-person mode (not like just looking around in FP like in the original but moving around too). Obviously MGS Integral is a pretty decent draw for the old hardcore fan.

    Also, Eurogamer reports that the code for Vol. 1 includes references to MGS: Peace Walker, MGS4, and MGS5, leading to further speculation that the implied Vol. 2 down the line will include at least all these titles (MGS4 being the big kahuna there as that game remains, to date, a PS3 exclusive). As @The_Spaniard pointed out in chat (cheers Span!), MGS1, 2, and 3 are the headliners in Vol. 1 and on the box art, but the collection also includes several other games (MSX versions of MG1 & MG2, and NES versions of MG1 & Snake's Revenge), so the possibility seems good for other games to be included such as MGS: Ghost Babel (the hugely well-regarded GBC game), and maybe Metal Gear Acid 1 & 2 from the PSP. The MGS1 remake MGS: The Twin Snakes from the Gamecube does, of course, still seem extremely unlikely, sadly, which I think is a crying shame - I'd love to see that get the HD Collection treatment that MGS2 & 3 got back in 2011, those versions of course being the ones included here.

    No, Crying Shame is a character from the obscure game Metal Gear Brazuca, they made exclusively for the Tectoy Zeebo.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
    camo_sig2.png
  • Options
    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Moar Metal Gear Shenanigans:

    For preorders you seemingly have to go to SteamDB to associate the free DLCs to your account, since they don't show up on the Steam pages for the games and the links in the games' menus just kick you to the Steam store homepage. (Info on doing this is here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2131630/discussions/0/3874843885715609644/ )

    The DLCs are for the different international versions of the games, and for the Digital Graphic Novels in the bonus content. That's actually not a bad way to have done it on the face of it, it can save you a chunk of storage space if you don't want everything at once (e.g. the DGNs are 8 and 11GB each for 1 & 2 respectively), and I wish things like the Steam release of Far Cry 6 did something like this rather than just forcing 175GB on you for a 64GB game. But the execution here was ham-fisted at best. Potentially fixable at least.

    Weirdly, the pre-order package and the post-release package have different Steam IDs. https://steamdb.info/sub/886310/apps/ and https://steamdb.info/sub/886313/apps/ respectively. This probably is related to the DLCs not showing up properly for pre-order customers.

    Further to the international versions, this REALLY matters for MGS1. Someone in North America will have to tell me if the situation is reversed there, but here in the UK it downloaded the 50Hz PAL version of the game by default (included in the European Pack part of the DLC as listed on SteamDB, but it was the base game for me). This version of the game runs at 25fps, and unlike modern games is slower to actually play as well because of this, as well as being able to hear it in the audio. Now, this is the game as it was released in the UK originally so I'm sure there's at least SOME crazy purists out there who will want to play it this way (in fact I probably know - well, knew - one); also it includes various other European languages. But anyone else will want to play in 60Hz/30fps using either the North American version or one of the Japanese releases. They, thankfully, are in the DLCs (at least here, as I say they may well be the default if you're in NA/JP). I saw something about European players not being able to access the NA version because of some unspecified licensing issue, but here in the UK at least I was able to access it and add it to my account, and it runs the way it should. The JP DLC includes the Japanese-only (originally) re-release titled Metal Gear Solid Integral, which upgraded the original Japanese release with features the NA/EU versions already had like various difficulty levels and English subs/VO, and also included the VR Missions/Special Missions expansion, and even an unlockable first-person mode (not like just looking around in FP like in the original but moving around too). Obviously MGS Integral is a pretty decent draw for the old hardcore fan.

    Also, Eurogamer reports that the code for Vol. 1 includes references to MGS: Peace Walker, MGS4, and MGS5, leading to further speculation that the implied Vol. 2 down the line will include at least all these titles (MGS4 being the big kahuna there as that game remains, to date, a PS3 exclusive). As @The_Spaniard pointed out in chat (cheers Span!), MGS1, 2, and 3 are the headliners in Vol. 1 and on the box art, but the collection also includes several other games (MSX versions of MG1 & MG2, and NES versions of MG1 & Snake's Revenge), so the possibility seems good for other games to be included such as MGS: Ghost Babel (the hugely well-regarded GBC game), and maybe Metal Gear Acid 1 & 2 from the PSP. The MGS1 remake MGS: The Twin Snakes from the Gamecube does, of course, still seem extremely unlikely, sadly, which I think is a crying shame - I'd love to see that get the HD Collection treatment that MGS2 & 3 got back in 2011, those versions of course being the ones included here.

    No, Crying Shame is a character from the obscure game Metal Gear Brazuca, they made exclusively for the Tectoy Zeebo.

    Drat! I forgot that one. That better be included too. Even if dedicated Brazilian version DLC is required.

    I've not checked the state of Zeebo emulation recently.

  • Options
    rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    jclast wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    jclast wrote: »
    Paradox Studios dropped Harebrained Studios as a developer, citing bad sales of Lamplighters League.

    With the big layoffs a few months before release and the state the game was released in its hard to feel like Paradox didn’t cut them off at the knees here.

    I'm also curious what sort of sales figures they expected when the game is a Game Pass title on both platforms it released on.

    Gamepass doesn't seem to be able to "save" bad games if that makes sense. Redfall, as a good example, failed to not only impress on gamepass but also managed to have "minimal sales" and has apparently sold *very* badly. Thankfully at least Arkane studios weren't mass fired, blamed for it and then left to the winds.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lamplighters League was actually a good game. A genuinely good game. It got absolutely shafted by technical problems and if you think it's bad on PC, don't even get me started on how bad the Series X version has been.

    I didn't mean that Game Pass could "save" it somehow. I just wonder how launching as a Game Pass does (and should) impact sales projections. I'd imagine they should go down quite a bit, especially when the game is not only launching on Game Pass but launching only on platforms where Game Pass exists. Granted, The Lamplighters League is available on Steam, but it's also available on PC via Game Pass. And you can buy it on Xbox, but you can also download it through Game Pass. As far as I know it didn't release on PlayStation or Switch. Seems like you should expect low sales in that case (unless Game Pass downloads count as a sale for some reason).

    Dunno about in general but some LL dev commented that gamepass uptick was anemic. There was just low interest in the game, which is proper given how the game currently runs on Xbox.

  • Options
    MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    jclast wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    jclast wrote: »
    Paradox Studios dropped Harebrained Studios as a developer, citing bad sales of Lamplighters League.

    With the big layoffs a few months before release and the state the game was released in its hard to feel like Paradox didn’t cut them off at the knees here.

    I'm also curious what sort of sales figures they expected when the game is a Game Pass title on both platforms it released on.

    Gamepass doesn't seem to be able to "save" bad games if that makes sense. Redfall, as a good example, failed to not only impress on gamepass but also managed to have "minimal sales" and has apparently sold *very* badly. Thankfully at least Arkane studios weren't mass fired, blamed for it and then left to the winds.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lamplighters League was actually a good game. A genuinely good game. It got absolutely shafted by technical problems and if you think it's bad on PC, don't even get me started on how bad the Series X version has been.

    I didn't mean that Game Pass could "save" it somehow. I just wonder how launching as a Game Pass does (and should) impact sales projections. I'd imagine they should go down quite a bit, especially when the game is not only launching on Game Pass but launching only on platforms where Game Pass exists. Granted, The Lamplighters League is available on Steam, but it's also available on PC via Game Pass. And you can buy it on Xbox, but you can also download it through Game Pass. As far as I know it didn't release on PlayStation or Switch. Seems like you should expect low sales in that case (unless Game Pass downloads count as a sale for some reason).

    Dunno about in general but some LL dev commented that gamepass uptick was anemic. There was just low interest in the game, which is proper given how the game currently runs on Xbox.

    On Steam it has only 209 reviews which points to abysmally low sales. I don't really know what the usual sales -> reviews rate is but all sorts of tiny indie games I've never heard of have higher numbers than that.

  • Options
    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Moar Metal Gear Shenanigans:

    For preorders you seemingly have to go to SteamDB to associate the free DLCs to your account, since they don't show up on the Steam pages for the games and the links in the games' menus just kick you to the Steam store homepage. (Info on doing this is here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2131630/discussions/0/3874843885715609644/ )

    The DLCs are for the different international versions of the games, and for the Digital Graphic Novels in the bonus content. That's actually not a bad way to have done it on the face of it, it can save you a chunk of storage space if you don't want everything at once (e.g. the DGNs are 8 and 11GB each for 1 & 2 respectively), and I wish things like the Steam release of Far Cry 6 did something like this rather than just forcing 175GB on you for a 64GB game. But the execution here was ham-fisted at best. Potentially fixable at least.

    Weirdly, the pre-order package and the post-release package have different Steam IDs. https://steamdb.info/sub/886310/apps/ and https://steamdb.info/sub/886313/apps/ respectively. This probably is related to the DLCs not showing up properly for pre-order customers.

    Further to the international versions, this REALLY matters for MGS1. Someone in North America will have to tell me if the situation is reversed there, but here in the UK it downloaded the 50Hz PAL version of the game by default (included in the European Pack part of the DLC as listed on SteamDB, but it was the base game for me). This version of the game runs at 25fps, and unlike modern games is slower to actually play as well because of this, as well as being able to hear it in the audio. Now, this is the game as it was released in the UK originally so I'm sure there's at least SOME crazy purists out there who will want to play it this way (in fact I probably know - well, knew - one); also it includes various other European languages. But anyone else will want to play in 60Hz/30fps using either the North American version or one of the Japanese releases. They, thankfully, are in the DLCs (at least here, as I say they may well be the default if you're in NA/JP). I saw something about European players not being able to access the NA version because of some unspecified licensing issue, but here in the UK at least I was able to access it and add it to my account, and it runs the way it should. The JP DLC includes the Japanese-only (originally) re-release titled Metal Gear Solid Integral, which upgraded the original Japanese release with features the NA/EU versions already had like various difficulty levels and English subs/VO, and also included the VR Missions/Special Missions expansion, and even an unlockable first-person mode (not like just looking around in FP like in the original but moving around too). Obviously MGS Integral is a pretty decent draw for the old hardcore fan.

    Also, Eurogamer reports that the code for Vol. 1 includes references to MGS: Peace Walker, MGS4, and MGS5, leading to further speculation that the implied Vol. 2 down the line will include at least all these titles (MGS4 being the big kahuna there as that game remains, to date, a PS3 exclusive). As @The_Spaniard pointed out in chat (cheers Span!), MGS1, 2, and 3 are the headliners in Vol. 1 and on the box art, but the collection also includes several other games (MSX versions of MG1 & MG2, and NES versions of MG1 & Snake's Revenge), so the possibility seems good for other games to be included such as MGS: Ghost Babel (the hugely well-regarded GBC game), and maybe Metal Gear Acid 1 & 2 from the PSP. The MGS1 remake MGS: The Twin Snakes from the Gamecube does, of course, still seem extremely unlikely, sadly, which I think is a crying shame - I'd love to see that get the HD Collection treatment that MGS2 & 3 got back in 2011, those versions of course being the ones included here.

    No, Crying Shame is a character from the obscure game Metal Gear Brazuca, they made exclusively for the Tectoy Zeebo.

    I had to scan through the quoted post because well, it sounds so completely possible.

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    cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    Honestly, I'd be more surprised if there weren't shenanigans involved in a Konami game at this point.


    Even Beatmania is drenched in their stupidity. Want to change your avatar or keep track of your scores?

    Better sign up for their service and enjoy monthly fees! And that's right, it's a subscription service for an arcade game.

    wVEsyIc.png
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    jclast wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    jclast wrote: »
    Paradox Studios dropped Harebrained Studios as a developer, citing bad sales of Lamplighters League.

    With the big layoffs a few months before release and the state the game was released in its hard to feel like Paradox didn’t cut them off at the knees here.

    I'm also curious what sort of sales figures they expected when the game is a Game Pass title on both platforms it released on.

    Gamepass doesn't seem to be able to "save" bad games if that makes sense. Redfall, as a good example, failed to not only impress on gamepass but also managed to have "minimal sales" and has apparently sold *very* badly. Thankfully at least Arkane studios weren't mass fired, blamed for it and then left to the winds.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lamplighters League was actually a good game. A genuinely good game. It got absolutely shafted by technical problems and if you think it's bad on PC, don't even get me started on how bad the Series X version has been.

    I didn't mean that Game Pass could "save" it somehow. I just wonder how launching as a Game Pass does (and should) impact sales projections. I'd imagine they should go down quite a bit, especially when the game is not only launching on Game Pass but launching only on platforms where Game Pass exists. Granted, The Lamplighters League is available on Steam, but it's also available on PC via Game Pass. And you can buy it on Xbox, but you can also download it through Game Pass. As far as I know it didn't release on PlayStation or Switch. Seems like you should expect low sales in that case (unless Game Pass downloads count as a sale for some reason).

    Dunno about in general but some LL dev commented that gamepass uptick was anemic. There was just low interest in the game, which is proper given how the game currently runs on Xbox.

    On Steam it has only 209 reviews which points to abysmally low sales. I don't really know what the usual sales -> reviews rate is but all sorts of tiny indie games I've never heard of have higher numbers than that.

    The two gamepass games that came out this year, which were also general review/reception disasters in Redfall and Lamplighters League (for different reasons mostly) both failed to sell basically at all. Redfall made "minimal sales" and Lamplighter's League was basically sent out to die. It's unknown how much better these games could/would have sold without gamepass in the equation, but I don't think either were ever destined for greatness given their release states.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    ArmsForPeace84ArmsForPeace84 Your Partner In Freedom Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Mirkel wrote: »
    jclast wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    jclast wrote: »
    Paradox Studios dropped Harebrained Studios as a developer, citing bad sales of Lamplighters League.

    With the big layoffs a few months before release and the state the game was released in its hard to feel like Paradox didn’t cut them off at the knees here.

    I'm also curious what sort of sales figures they expected when the game is a Game Pass title on both platforms it released on.

    Gamepass doesn't seem to be able to "save" bad games if that makes sense. Redfall, as a good example, failed to not only impress on gamepass but also managed to have "minimal sales" and has apparently sold *very* badly. Thankfully at least Arkane studios weren't mass fired, blamed for it and then left to the winds.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lamplighters League was actually a good game. A genuinely good game. It got absolutely shafted by technical problems and if you think it's bad on PC, don't even get me started on how bad the Series X version has been.

    I didn't mean that Game Pass could "save" it somehow. I just wonder how launching as a Game Pass does (and should) impact sales projections. I'd imagine they should go down quite a bit, especially when the game is not only launching on Game Pass but launching only on platforms where Game Pass exists. Granted, The Lamplighters League is available on Steam, but it's also available on PC via Game Pass. And you can buy it on Xbox, but you can also download it through Game Pass. As far as I know it didn't release on PlayStation or Switch. Seems like you should expect low sales in that case (unless Game Pass downloads count as a sale for some reason).

    Dunno about in general but some LL dev commented that gamepass uptick was anemic. There was just low interest in the game, which is proper given how the game currently runs on Xbox.

    On Steam it has only 209 reviews which points to abysmally low sales. I don't really know what the usual sales -> reviews rate is but all sorts of tiny indie games I've never heard of have higher numbers than that.

    The two gamepass games that came out this year, which were also general review/reception disasters in Redfall and Lamplighters League (for different reasons mostly) both failed to sell basically at all. Redfall made "minimal sales" and Lamplighter's League was basically sent out to die. It's unknown how much better these games could/would have sold without gamepass in the equation, but I don't think either were ever destined for greatness given their release states.

    And the pricing on both was terribly out of touch with reality. To the extent that I wonder if Microsoft exerts some pressure, here, to keep Gamepass contract titles out of the budget price points where they might actually sell. Preferring to tout the consumer's "savings" under their subscription model.

    See, we added two new games. A $120 value!

    ArmsForPeace84 on
    Nothing personal. It's just business.
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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    https://youtu.be/W5ITqbN1h-c?si=MbAv11rN_0sMd1Oc

    I have yet to get deep into this video, but your gun is a pet, you might have other pets

    Game experience is....roguelike survival horror?

    Streamlined bioshock 1? The revolver had me remembering that feeling

    RoyceSraphim on
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Mirkel wrote: »
    jclast wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    jclast wrote: »
    Paradox Studios dropped Harebrained Studios as a developer, citing bad sales of Lamplighters League.

    With the big layoffs a few months before release and the state the game was released in its hard to feel like Paradox didn’t cut them off at the knees here.

    I'm also curious what sort of sales figures they expected when the game is a Game Pass title on both platforms it released on.

    Gamepass doesn't seem to be able to "save" bad games if that makes sense. Redfall, as a good example, failed to not only impress on gamepass but also managed to have "minimal sales" and has apparently sold *very* badly. Thankfully at least Arkane studios weren't mass fired, blamed for it and then left to the winds.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lamplighters League was actually a good game. A genuinely good game. It got absolutely shafted by technical problems and if you think it's bad on PC, don't even get me started on how bad the Series X version has been.

    I didn't mean that Game Pass could "save" it somehow. I just wonder how launching as a Game Pass does (and should) impact sales projections. I'd imagine they should go down quite a bit, especially when the game is not only launching on Game Pass but launching only on platforms where Game Pass exists. Granted, The Lamplighters League is available on Steam, but it's also available on PC via Game Pass. And you can buy it on Xbox, but you can also download it through Game Pass. As far as I know it didn't release on PlayStation or Switch. Seems like you should expect low sales in that case (unless Game Pass downloads count as a sale for some reason).

    Dunno about in general but some LL dev commented that gamepass uptick was anemic. There was just low interest in the game, which is proper given how the game currently runs on Xbox.

    On Steam it has only 209 reviews which points to abysmally low sales. I don't really know what the usual sales -> reviews rate is but all sorts of tiny indie games I've never heard of have higher numbers than that.

    The two gamepass games that came out this year, which were also general review/reception disasters in Redfall and Lamplighters League (for different reasons mostly) both failed to sell basically at all. Redfall made "minimal sales" and Lamplighter's League was basically sent out to die. It's unknown how much better these games could/would have sold without gamepass in the equation, but I don't think either were ever destined for greatness given their release states.

    And the pricing on both was terribly out of touch with reality. To the extent that I wonder if Microsoft exerts some pressure, here, to keep Gamepass contract titles out of the budget price points where they might actually sell. Preferring to tout the consumer's "savings" under their subscription model.

    See, we added two new games. A $120 value!

    Yeah was wondering at this a bit. Redfall just put out a big patch that fixes a lot, why not put it on sale for a month or two at $30 or $40? Surely MS realizes the population of people willing to pay $70 for redfall is exhausted.

  • Options
    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I still can't believe Redfall was or is considered a $70 game. It beggars belief.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I still can't believe Redfall was or is considered a $70 game. It beggars belief.

    It was even the "just one more thing" big mic-drop game at the end of the Xbox E3 presentation whichever year it was that it was revealed. They save that slot for a big stinger usually. That alone seems absolutely crackers, looking back.

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »
    Moar Metal Gear Shenanigans:

    For preorders you seemingly have to go to SteamDB to associate the free DLCs to your account, since they don't show up on the Steam pages for the games and the links in the games' menus just kick you to the Steam store homepage. (Info on doing this is here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2131630/discussions/0/3874843885715609644/ )

    The DLCs are for the different international versions of the games, and for the Digital Graphic Novels in the bonus content. That's actually not a bad way to have done it on the face of it, it can save you a chunk of storage space if you don't want everything at once (e.g. the DGNs are 8 and 11GB each for 1 & 2 respectively), and I wish things like the Steam release of Far Cry 6 did something like this rather than just forcing 175GB on you for a 64GB game. But the execution here was ham-fisted at best. Potentially fixable at least.

    Weirdly, the pre-order package and the post-release package have different Steam IDs. https://steamdb.info/sub/886310/apps/ and https://steamdb.info/sub/886313/apps/ respectively. This probably is related to the DLCs not showing up properly for pre-order customers.

    Further to the international versions, this REALLY matters for MGS1. Someone in North America will have to tell me if the situation is reversed there, but here in the UK it downloaded the 50Hz PAL version of the game by default (included in the European Pack part of the DLC as listed on SteamDB, but it was the base game for me). This version of the game runs at 25fps, and unlike modern games is slower to actually play as well because of this, as well as being able to hear it in the audio. Now, this is the game as it was released in the UK originally so I'm sure there's at least SOME crazy purists out there who will want to play it this way (in fact I probably know - well, knew - one); also it includes various other European languages. But anyone else will want to play in 60Hz/30fps using either the North American version or one of the Japanese releases. They, thankfully, are in the DLCs (at least here, as I say they may well be the default if you're in NA/JP). I saw something about European players not being able to access the NA version because of some unspecified licensing issue, but here in the UK at least I was able to access it and add it to my account, and it runs the way it should. The JP DLC includes the Japanese-only (originally) re-release titled Metal Gear Solid Integral, which upgraded the original Japanese release with features the NA/EU versions already had like various difficulty levels and English subs/VO, and also included the VR Missions/Special Missions expansion, and even an unlockable first-person mode (not like just looking around in FP like in the original but moving around too). Obviously MGS Integral is a pretty decent draw for the old hardcore fan.

    Also, Eurogamer reports that the code for Vol. 1 includes references to MGS: Peace Walker, MGS4, and MGS5, leading to further speculation that the implied Vol. 2 down the line will include at least all these titles (MGS4 being the big kahuna there as that game remains, to date, a PS3 exclusive). As @The_Spaniard pointed out in chat (cheers Span!), MGS1, 2, and 3 are the headliners in Vol. 1 and on the box art, but the collection also includes several other games (MSX versions of MG1 & MG2, and NES versions of MG1 & Snake's Revenge), so the possibility seems good for other games to be included such as MGS: Ghost Babel (the hugely well-regarded GBC game), and maybe Metal Gear Acid 1 & 2 from the PSP. The MGS1 remake MGS: The Twin Snakes from the Gamecube does, of course, still seem extremely unlikely, sadly, which I think is a crying shame - I'd love to see that get the HD Collection treatment that MGS2 & 3 got back in 2011, those versions of course being the ones included here.

    No, Crying Shame is a character from the obscure game Metal Gear Brazuca, they made exclusively for the Tectoy Zeebo.

    I had to scan through the quoted post because well, it sounds so completely possible.

    There is at least a grain of truth there... the Zeebo was a thing that did exist and was indeed co-developed by Tectoy.

    It didn't have a Metal Gear game, but it did get a port of the mobile edition of Resident Evil 4... :lol:

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    PoketpixiePoketpixie Siege Registered User regular
    I'd forgotten how much fun Shadows of Mordor was. I started a new game since my old one had disappeared. Just as well since it's been awhile. I managed to get myself killed a few times by a couple of insufferable little snots while I was getting back up to speed. I should have run the first time when I had the chance, especially after the cazador got loose. By about the fourth time I ran into them they were becoming super annoying. I slipped out during the brawl and climbed up a cliff only to drop back down on top of my first nemesis. So much for Hornug the Wise. His sidekick didn't last much longer and with him dead the rest of the orcs scattered.

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    MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    If you don't die a few times you miss out on all the fun in Shadows of Mordor. I remember reading posts from better than average action RPG veterans who didn't understand what all the fuss was about the nemesis system since they never did.

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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    I've focused on Warframe's sister/lich system, which feels like a legally distinct clone of nemesis and it certainly made gameplay more fulfilling.

    Also maxed out one of my XP meters which never happens, so yay them.

    edit:A in my brain is telling me to collect all tenant and Kuva weapons, the boons from each successful victory against each respectively

    RoyceSraphim on
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    MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    This is why Gravewalker and to a lesser extent Brutal are my favourite difficulties.

    Both are difficulties actually capable of killing me regularly enough I get to see and experience the system properly.

    Nemesis was pretty good on release when I wasn't as good but I'm almost untouchable in that game now, so if I get tagged it basically needs to be a one or two shot.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I still can't believe Redfall was or is considered a $70 game. It beggars belief.

    It was even the "just one more thing" big mic-drop game at the end of the Xbox E3 presentation whichever year it was that it was revealed. They save that slot for a big stinger usually. That alone seems absolutely crackers, looking back.

    Yeah. Its a bit obvious what happened to Lamplighters - someone at Paradox decided to give it the bloodlines 2 “cancel and salt the earth” treatment, but some beancounter said “hey, maybe there is decent game enough here to scam a few battletech and shadowrun fans out of 50 bucks”. And that explains why promotion for the game stopped and the release was quiet, why there wasn’t a season pass, etc.

    Redfall wasn’t like that. There was a dlc pass with the deluxe edition. There was a ton of pack in and promotion. Someone at MS really thought they had something that could sell. But anyone playing the release candidate should have realized they were six months to a year from having a passable AAA game. So who knows, there had to have been some kind of self-delusion or miscommunication there.

  • Options
    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Poketpixie wrote: »
    I'd forgotten how much fun Shadows of Mordor was. I started a new game since my old one had disappeared. Just as well since it's been awhile. I managed to get myself killed a few times by a couple of insufferable little snots while I was getting back up to speed. I should have run the first time when I had the chance, especially after the cazador got loose. By about the fourth time I ran into them they were becoming super annoying. I slipped out during the brawl and climbed up a cliff only to drop back down on top of my first nemesis. So much for Hornug the Wise. His sidekick didn't last much longer and with him dead the rest of the orcs scattered.

    RANGAH! *dolly zoom in*

    What a great mechanic.

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    KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    It's kind of funny that Shadow of Mordor/War relies on an experience so organic that they don't have you face an unbeatable foe (or at least, defeats you in a post-defeat cutscene, etc) and thus at least tutorial the nemesis mechanic.

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    urahonkyurahonky Resident FF7R hater Registered User regular
    Holy fuck Forgive Me Father is so much fun!

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    ED!ED! Registered User regular
    If anyone was interested in the followup from MONSTER TRAIN developers, INKBOUND, but was utterly turned off by the game having MTX (in Early Access and in a genre that it isn't found in): all of that is gone with the developer flat out saying it's not what the audience wanted (obviously); all cosmetics aren't going away, they just are being shuffled to DLC so now you don't have to be constantly reminded you are on a treadmill to earn shit you don't want. Doesn't seem like there's a dedicated offline mode though, which feels. . .lame.
    Jazz wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I still can't believe Redfall was or is considered a $70 game. It beggars belief.

    It was even the "just one more thing" big mic-drop game at the end of the Xbox E3 presentation whichever year it was that it was revealed. They save that slot for a big stinger usually. That alone seems absolutely crackers, looking back.

    If REDFALL actually was the fucking open-world DISHONERED that they themselves said it would be (in spirit at least), that would have been fine. What we got was clearly foisted on ARKANE and made worse by MS's involvement. Like that game should have been quietly pulled as it effectively has marked ARKANE forever (as "mixed" a reaction that DL seems to get, it at least had the core of what ARKANE knows how to do well. . .or so we thought).

    . . .just sucks. "Open-world, single-player class-based first person shooter with an immersive and reactive world" just feels like it sells itself.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    If anyone was interested in the followup from MONSTER TRAIN developers, INKBOUND, but was utterly turned off by the game having MTX (in Early Access and in a genre that it isn't found in): all of that is gone with the developer flat out saying it's not what the audience wanted (obviously); all cosmetics aren't going away, they just are being shuffled to DLC so now you don't have to be constantly reminded you are on a treadmill to earn shit you don't want. Doesn't seem like there's a dedicated offline mode though, which feels. . .lame.
    Jazz wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I still can't believe Redfall was or is considered a $70 game. It beggars belief.

    It was even the "just one more thing" big mic-drop game at the end of the Xbox E3 presentation whichever year it was that it was revealed. They save that slot for a big stinger usually. That alone seems absolutely crackers, looking back.

    If REDFALL actually was the fucking open-world DISHONERED that they themselves said it would be (in spirit at least), that would have been fine. What we got was clearly foisted on ARKANE and made worse by MS's involvement. Like that game should have been quietly pulled as it effectively has marked ARKANE forever (as "mixed" a reaction that DL seems to get, it at least had the core of what ARKANE knows how to do well. . .or so we thought).

    . . .just sucks. "Open-world, single-player class-based first person shooter with an immersive and reactive world" just feels like it sells itself.

    I’m not sure how much involvement MS even had to be honest. Redfall was a different team than deathloop and seems to have started development around the time Prey was released. It seems Bethesda was responsible for most of the decisions made in development.

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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Holy fuck Forgive Me Father is so much fun!

    It looks like a lot of fun but 2d sprites in a 3d environment give me massive motion sickness. I remember vomiting after finishing Smile for Me, and it wasn't even a shooter.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    urahonkyurahonky Resident FF7R hater Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Holy fuck Forgive Me Father is so much fun!

    It looks like a lot of fun but 2d sprites in a 3d environment give me massive motion sickness. I remember vomiting after finishing Smile for Me, and it wasn't even a shooter.

    Oh no! That sucks I'm sorry. If it helps it feels better than most 2D sprites in a 3D world. I don't know if it's because you're always moving but some of the older stuff hurts too. Wish there was a demo for you to try just in case.

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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    If you don't die a few times you miss out on all the fun in Shadows of Mordor. I remember reading posts from better than average action RPG veterans who didn't understand what all the fuss was about the nemesis system since they never did.

    Git bad, scrub.

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