It's also about having all your downloadable games in the same place and, although not much of an issue in this case, the fact that Steam has auto-updating.
Yeah, Steam's auto-updating is great. You go to play your game, Steam says it needs updating and starts downloading, then you're locked out of your game for 24 hours or more because it won't let you play while the update is in progress and the servers are so fucking slow.
It's also about having all your downloadable games in the same place and, although not much of an issue in this case, the fact that Steam has auto-updating.
Yeah, Steam's auto-updating is great. You go to play your game, Steam says it needs updating and starts downloading, then you're locked out of your game for 24 hours or more because it won't let you play while the update is in progress and the servers are so fucking slow.
I think you have a problem at your end there. I have never had anything less then full usage of my bandwidth when updating over Steam, consistently download with about 1MB/s.
It's also about having all your downloadable games in the same place and, although not much of an issue in this case, the fact that Steam has auto-updating.
Yeah, Steam's auto-updating is great. You go to play your game, Steam says it needs updating and starts downloading, then you're locked out of your game for 24 hours or more because it won't let you play while the update is in progress and the servers are so fucking slow.
I think you have a problem at your end there. I have never had anything less then full usage of my bandwidth when updating over Steam, consistently download with about 1MB/s.
I know part of the problem is at my end - despite being a first-world country, the internet infrastructure here is a joke.
My main point is, Steam doesn't ask if you want to install the updates now, it just goes right ahead and locks you out of your games.
Let me play the old version now, and maybe update it after I'm finished playing.
I'm sure Steam is great in countries where high speed broadband is accessible to most people, but that simply isn't the case worldwide.
What are people crying about exactly? Achievements? Really?
Being available on Steam will get this game more exposure, which will create more fans, which will mean more support for HH for the sequels. That's not a bad thing.
It's also about having all your downloadable games in the same place and, although not much of an issue in this case, the fact that Steam has auto-updating.
My downloadable games are already in the same place - my hard drive.
It's also about having all your downloadable games in the same place and, although not much of an issue in this case, the fact that Steam has auto-updating.
Yeah, Steam's auto-updating is great. You go to play your game, Steam says it needs updating and starts downloading, then you're locked out of your game for 24 hours or more because it won't let you play while the update is in progress and the servers are so fucking slow.
I think you have a problem at your end there. I have never had anything less then full usage of my bandwidth when updating over Steam, consistently download with about 1MB/s.
I know part of the problem is at my end - despite being a first-world country, the internet infrastructure here is a joke.
My main point is, Steam doesn't ask if you want to install the updates now, it just goes right ahead and locks you out of your games.
Let me play the old version now, and maybe update it after I'm finished playing.
I'm sure Steam is great in countries where high speed broadband is accessible to most people, but that simply isn't the case worldwide.
you can always pause the update if you want to play another game. Also, if the game has an update, you'd need it anyway to play.
My main point is, Steam doesn't ask if you want to install the updates now, it just goes right ahead and locks you out of your games.
Let me play the old version now, and maybe update it after I'm finished playing.
you can always pause the update if you want to play another game. Also, if the game has an update, you'd need it anyway to play.
That's not really the point. Still being able to play Game B when I was planning to play Game A isn't really much consolation.
And what if Steam itself needs an update? Then you can't access any of the games.
Why would do I need the update right away if the game was working fine yesterday? Games don't suddenly stop working the moment a patch is released. Bear in mind I'm talking about single-player games here. Seriously, what's with the several-hundred megabyte updates for Half-Life 2 every couple of weeks?
If I had bought the game through Greenhouse, I'd be pissed too. Glad I didn't; I'll be getting it through Steam now.
I never understood why you guys had to reinvent the wheel in the first place. What was the point? Surely a deal with Steam could have been worked out month ahead of the release.
I'm thinking maybe you didn't like the margins, Steam takes a large chunk as I understand it, but what's the value of an established and proven download service with a huge install base? I'm sure you get better margins through your own service, but how much was spent on R&D, hardware, bandwidth, etc...
Jesus Christ.
I'm reminded why I don't like spending large amounts of time with gamers.
Why would do I need the update right away if the game was working fine yesterday? Games don't suddenly stop working the moment a patch is released. Bear in mind I'm talking about single-player games here. Seriously, what's with the several-hundred megabyte updates for Half-Life 2 every couple of weeks?
I'm thinking your fingers need to be removed to prevent the spreading of Stupid from them.
Games with online features need to be all the same version in order to interact properly. Thus, forcing games to be updated before they can be played is the easiest, and most reasonable, solution to this. While you are correct in that this has very little effect on single player, aside from sending data to things like Leaderboards, it is much easier for Valve to force the update when it arrives to keep everyone on the same page.
The fact that NZ has a shitty infrastructure is no fault of Valves.
My main point is, Steam doesn't ask if you want to install the updates now, it just goes right ahead and locks you out of your games.
Let me play the old version now, and maybe update it after I'm finished playing.
you can always pause the update if you want to play another game. Also, if the game has an update, you'd need it anyway to play.
That's not really the point. Still being able to play Game B when I was planning to play Game A isn't really much consolation.
And what if Steam itself needs an update? Then you can't access any of the games.
Why would do I need the update right away if the game was working fine yesterday? Games don't suddenly stop working the moment a patch is released. Bear in mind I'm talking about single-player games here. Seriously, what's with the several-hundred megabyte updates for Half-Life 2 every couple of weeks?
You do know there is an option under each game's properties that can prevent it from being automatically updated right?
Might I recommend that we stop arguing about the flaws and virtues of Steam, and get back to the bitching?
In all seriousness though, you can turn autoupdates off on a game to game basis. Right click on it in the games window, properties, updates.
It makes a lot of sense that it got released on Steam several weeks after it came out on GH. They've got x amount of money secured, and Steam's got it's userbase, so why not? Would've been nice to know ahead of time, but whatever man.
I'll say this once: developers are not your enemy. Sometimes they make stupid business decisions. It's your call as a consumer to give them the money to continue making stupid decisions or not. In this case, they already had the money, but it wasn't a stupid decision.
I use Steam to buy all of my games (well 90% of them). I decided to pick it up on Greenhouse because it sounded as if it wasn't coming to Steam. Anyway... blah blah blah, forget about buying the other two chapters now. I highly doubt this was malicious or intentional, but it is just really disappointing. :x
I guess I will be more inclined to buy it a few years down the road when Steam gives away their games for the cheap.
(Please flame away. I know I didn't drop down and perform services for the PA/HH crew, so I am going to get it.) :P
Honestly, had I known it would be released on Steam, I never would've bought it on Greenhouse. As has been mentioned, it's really convenient having all my games in one location, on one account, etc. I will console myself with the fact that you guys got a bigger share of my moneys, and I supported your Greenhouse project.
Had I known I'd be getting less for my $20 I too would have waited and purchased it from Steam. I understand that you had to keep things quiet Robert, but that doesn't stop me from being disappointed right now.
I like to support PA, but I'm sure you understand how I feel cheated right now. Sure there are claims that these achievements will be added to the GH version of PAA, but these claims are vague and there is no time line set forth. For all I know we may not see these until the series is all done.
I do not own a 360 so buying the PC version was my only option, I was not upset before at the lack of achievements, but given that there is an enhanced version of the same product for the same price shortly after initial release, I can't really express my disappointment enough.
Yeah I just bought this and it came up with a generous list of reasons why it can't run. This is particularly disturbing since my card can run OpenGL 1.2x (and has). At least it was only $20.
Had I known I'd be getting less for my $20 I too would have waited and purchased it from Steam. I understand that you had to keep things quiet Robert, but that doesn't stop me from being disappointed right now.
I like to support PA, but I'm sure you understand how I feel cheated right now. Sure there are claims that these achievements will be added to the GH version of PAA, but these claims are vague and there is no time line set forth. For all I know we may not see these until the series is all done.
I do not own a 360 so buying the PC version was my only option, I was not upset before at the lack of achievements, but given that there is an enhanced version of the same product for the same price shortly after initial release, I can't really express my disappointment enough.
This post really sums up everything I don't understand about this negative reaction in one place.
I really don't understand how you feel cheated at all. Not at all. The game came out as announced in the methods announced and then they worked out a deal to distribute it in more ways, exactly like they said they were going to do. How many times did Vlad and Joel and Robert come in here and in interviews and said about different platforms that they want to get it to as many gamers as possible in as many ways possible. Just because you didn't have the patience to wait and see if it would be released on your preferred platform later on is not their fault.
And that's just starting off. How in the world do you consider achievements to be an "enhanced version". Do you not know that you've killed a ton of mimes? Do you really need the artificial encouragement of a little window popping up to tell you? I mean, if it was adding to a gamerscore, I could understand the competitiveness, but this is just a checkbox on a list.
But here's what really gets my goat about your complaint: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=4699905#post4699905
On March 3rd, you said - "It really doesn't need to be available over Steam. They can just distribute it themselves and you can add it to Steam as a non-Steam game if you want the community overlay."
Then you continued throughout the thread to say why it wouldn't be a good idea for them to put it on Steam.
With all the 'no Steam' noise that was emanating from PA/HH before the launch, and how soon after the initial launch that the game showed up on Steam, I gotta wonder if I'm seeing what are called in legal circles 'Deceptive Marketing Practices'. I'm upset enough that PA Is a brand I had come to trust, now it's a brand I want to seek legal recourse against (OK, maybe I'll back off when I calm down, but I've been kind of shaking with anger for a few hours now).
I had been looking forward to PAX again, but I doubt I'll bother. Being molested by the TSA was only worth it before the con hosts decided to get into the 'screw-you-over' business too.
This post really sums up everything I don't understand about this negative reaction in one place.
I really don't understand how you feel cheated at all. Not at all. The game came out as announced in the methods announced and then they worked out a deal to distribute it in more ways, exactly like they said they were going to do. How many times did Vlad and Joel and Robert come in here and in interviews and said about different platforms that they want to get it to as many gamers as possible in as many ways possible. Just because you didn't have the patience to wait and see if it would be released on your preferred platform later on is not their fault.
And that's just starting off. How in the world do you consider achievements to be an "enhanced version". Do you not know that you've killed a ton of mimes? Do you really need the artificial encouragement of a little window popping up to tell you? I mean, if it was adding to a gamerscore, I could understand the competitiveness, but this is just a checkbox on a list.
But here's what really gets my goat about your complaint: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=4699905#post4699905
On March 3rd, you said - "It really doesn't need to be available over Steam. They can just distribute it themselves and you can add it to Steam as a non-Steam game if you want the community overlay."
Then you continued throughout the thread to say why it wouldn't be a good idea for them to put it on Steam.
I still think they didn't need to release it on Steam. Steam itself it not the issue. PC is my preferred platform, Steam is not my preferred digital distribution service. I'd rather give PA more profit. In return all I ask is to receive the same product on the platform I buy it on.
In fact I think releasing it so soon on Steam undermines the whole point of releasing it on Greenhouse Games. While GHG version lacks the extra features that Steam does, what incentive is there to buy future episodes from GHG when a more robust Steam version will either come out at the same time, or shortly after the GHG release.
I do feel achievements are an enhanced version. The Steam version has something my version does not, fun goals to track throughout gameplay. I rather enjoy achievements, it keeps me playing longer and adds more to my game.
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Captain ElevenThe last card is a kronkRegistered Userregular
With all the 'no Steam' noise that was emanating from PA/HH before the launch, and how soon after the initial launch that the game showed up on Steam, I gotta wonder if I'm seeing what are called in legal circles 'Deceptive Marketing Practices'. I'm upset enough that PA Is a brand I had come to trust, now it's a brand I want to seek legal recourse against (OK, maybe I'll back off when I calm down, but I've been kind of shaking with anger for a few hours now).
I had been looking forward to PAX again, but I doubt I'll bother. Being molested by the TSA was only worth it before the con hosts decided to get into the 'screw-you-over' business too.
Wow, you really need to calm down there man. I think the accusations of "deceptive marketing practices" might be just a tad overdramatic.
Wow, you really need to calm down there man. I think the accusations of "deceptive marketing practices" might be just a tad overdramatic.
Cap, I wish I agreed with you, I really do. With any luck, tomorrow I will.
That said, from a calmer stance; Am I the only one who feels that the Steam release simultaneously undermines the GH project while punishing early-adopters by having more features available in the incompatible non-GH version that earns PA less money?
Anyone fool out there who want to buy my GH key for Ep 1? It would help me feel a lot less ripped-off picking up the Steam version.
Wow, you really need to calm down there man. I think the accusations of "deceptive marketing practices" might be just a tad overdramatic.
Cap, I wish I agreed with you, I really do. With any luck, tomorrow I will.
That said, from a calmer stance; Am I the only one who feels that the Steam release simultaneously undermines the GH project while punishing early-adopters by having more features available in the incompatible non-GH version that earns PA less money?
Anyone fool out there who want to buy my GH key for Ep 1? It would help me feel a lot less ripped-off picking up the Steam version.
It is exactly how I feel. I really don't understand why they even tried GH if they are now on Steam. That point was seemingly clear a month ago. Let's be honest... Most people who play and buy games through Steam are going to choose it over GH. I suspect sales through Steam will be much larger than GH for ep2.
With all the 'no Steam' noise that was emanating from PA/HH before the launch, and how soon after the initial launch that the game showed up on Steam, I gotta wonder if I'm seeing what are called in legal circles 'Deceptive Marketing Practices'. I'm upset enough that PA Is a brand I had come to trust, now it's a brand I want to seek legal recourse against (OK, maybe I'll back off when I calm down, but I've been kind of shaking with anger for a few hours now).
I had been looking forward to PAX again, but I doubt I'll bother. Being molested by the TSA was only worth it before the con hosts decided to get into the 'screw-you-over' business too.
I'd really like to see all this supposed "no Steam noise" from Penny-Arcade or HotHead.
Not too mention the fact that if you have been "shaking with anger" over a release on Steam, you have some serious fucking issues that should be dealt with before you start considering accruing legal fees.
Wow, you really need to calm down there man. I think the accusations of "deceptive marketing practices" might be just a tad overdramatic.
Cap, I wish I agreed with you, I really do. With any luck, tomorrow I will.
That said, from a calmer stance; Am I the only one who feels that the Steam release simultaneously undermines the GH project while punishing early-adopters by having more features available in the incompatible non-GH version that earns PA less money?
Anyone fool out there who want to buy my GH key for Ep 1? It would help me feel a lot less ripped-off picking up the Steam version.
As Vlad said, HH is in the business to make money on their game and give PA fans a good time.
GH, is in the business of getting other games that won't make it on steam a chance.
Seriously, I'm just stumped over the whole achievement thing. If you want, I'll write up a list of tasks for you to do while you play, and you can check them off as you go along.
Seriously, I'm just stumped over the whole achievement thing. If you want, I'll write up a list of tasks for you to do while you play, and you can check them off as you go along.
But how can I prove to you I beat it using nothing but my penis?
I only died once when my wife needed me to open a jar for her.
I'm personally very offended at the fact that no one has come up with a way to record on the internet the fact that I once beat Contra without the code, in single player mode.
I'm personally very offended at the fact that no one has come up with a way to record on the internet the fact that I once beat Contra without the code, in single player mode.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Alternatively, if you take this post as truth, once the Google bots hit it, it is stored for all perpetuity.
I'd really like to see all this supposed "no Steam noise" from Penny-Arcade or HotHead.
I can't pin down any official statement, but there was a question in a recent Wired interview about why Gabe and Tycho started Greenhouse when Steam and GameTap already existed: http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/04/exclusive-inter.html
Rereading this though, it doesn't seem to imply that the game would only be available via Greenhouse for PC, and indeed, they later say they'd like to put it on other platforms eventually.
Still, it was this and other things the two had said (in interviews, on the front page I think) that made it seem that they were going with Greenhouse on the PC instead of Steam, not in addition to.
I'd really like to see all this supposed "no Steam noise" from Penny-Arcade or HotHead.
I can't pin down any official statement, but there was a question in a recent Wired interview about why Gabe and Tycho started Greenhouse when Steam and GameTap already existed: http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/04/exclusive-inter.html
Rereading this though, it doesn't seem to imply that the game would only be available via Greenhouse for PC, and indeed, they later say they'd like to put it on other platforms eventually.
Still, it was this and other things the two had said (in interviews, on the front page I think) that made it seem that they were going with Greenhouse on the PC instead of Steam, not in addition to.
Has there been any word on whether or not the game will be available through Steam? Personally, I don't see why they wouldn't, since Steam already shows PA strips and everything.
We're talking with a ton of different digital distribution platforms - we want you to be able to get this game via whatever means you're most comfortable with.
Thanks for being patient with us guys!
Also, let's quote that specifically, they say very clearly that it's nothing like Steam or Gametap in that it's not an application, it's just a store:
We know how this works out for you and Hothead, but how does it work out for gamers? With things like Steam and GameTap already in place, why does the world need another competing digital distribution system?
Tycho: Greenhouse isn't an application by any means. It's similar to the store we have for posters or shirts or whatever; it just happens to sell videogames instead. So we're not asking somebody to install the Greenhouse client and then keep it updated or whatever. It's just that as a fully independent project, we need to retain control from end to end.
snip snip
So how will Greenhouse get along with things like Xbox Live Arcade, for example? Could these games also become available on other services, as well?
Tycho: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
Is Precipice only going to be sold via Greenhouse?
Tycho: At first, yeah. But eventually we'd like to get it on as many platforms as we can. And there's been a lot of interest in that direction, so.
So in other words, no one ever said or suggested that it wasn't coming to steam.
OK, I'm done being mad, but I'm still pretty seriously disappointed.
So... For those of us who are Steam users, and would rather have a Steam game but already own the non-Steam version; Could we come up with a way to donate the non-steam keys to Childs-play? My aversion to buying-both-copies-when-I'm-only-going-to-use-one is greatly reduced if I feel my first $20 can still make someone happy (rather than the current feeling which would come closer to having lit a $20 bill aflame).
To the achievement haters: It's still a feature offered in one version, unavailable to users of another. Sure not everyone likes every feature, but to some of us, achievements provide a real value. Tracking them online lets us use them in a social context, seeing what our friends are up to and so forth. You don't have to feel it ads value to your experience to recognize that not everyone feels the same. (for the record, I didn't 'get' achievements either until I was playing Portal on Steam at the same time as friends were playing it on Xbox)
I never understood why you guys had to reinvent the wheel in the first place. What was the point?
Not every game made is going to be allowed on XBLA and likewise, not every game made is going to be allowed on Steam. The more choice developers have, the more varied the offerings gamers are going to have. I firmly believe it is great to have a strong player and leader like Valve and Steam and MS with XBLA but it is bad for everyone to have a single or very few sources. Besides a very valid mission that I believe GH can fulfill, the reason above is reason enough alone to exist and to grow.
I agree that the more choices, the better. Look at what happens when you don't have options: EA releases the same boring Madden every year with little to no innovation. If you want to play an NFL game , you have to deal with them.
Steam is a service not an end product. Choice in download services is not akin to choice in end products. Choice is good end products, but in services, standards are better.
Let's say I reformat my machine. I don't want to go to 20 different places to redownload my games. Having one unified service to get all my games is vastly beneficial to me.
It's also beneficial to developers, because they wouldn't have to make one binary for Steam, one for Direct2Drive, one for GreenHouse, etc. Again, standards.
Also I really don't buy the argument that Steam is discriminatory to smaller developers, there's a lot of independent games on Steam, including some really obscure ones. It's totally a manner of money, but again how much money would be spent developing your own download service and paying for the bandwidth? I mean even beyond the technical side there's things like setting up your own payment processing, having your own support, etc. that's all costly.
So in other words, no one ever said or suggested that it wasn't coming to steam.
Yeah, after reading all that, I came to that conclusion too. I guess I read everything about how Greenhouse was different and separate from Steam and thought that meant they would only release it via one method on PC. I'm not angry, just kind of disappointed. Still, the game's fun, and I'll be sure to buy the next 3 episodes, though I'll wait until I can get them on Steam.
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Yeah, Steam's auto-updating is great. You go to play your game, Steam says it needs updating and starts downloading, then you're locked out of your game for 24 hours or more because it won't let you play while the update is in progress and the servers are so fucking slow.
I think you have a problem at your end there. I have never had anything less then full usage of my bandwidth when updating over Steam, consistently download with about 1MB/s.
I know part of the problem is at my end - despite being a first-world country, the internet infrastructure here is a joke.
My main point is, Steam doesn't ask if you want to install the updates now, it just goes right ahead and locks you out of your games.
Let me play the old version now, and maybe update it after I'm finished playing.
I'm sure Steam is great in countries where high speed broadband is accessible to most people, but that simply isn't the case worldwide.
My downloadable games are already in the same place - my hard drive.
you can always pause the update if you want to play another game. Also, if the game has an update, you'd need it anyway to play.
That's not really the point. Still being able to play Game B when I was planning to play Game A isn't really much consolation.
And what if Steam itself needs an update? Then you can't access any of the games.
Why would do I need the update right away if the game was working fine yesterday? Games don't suddenly stop working the moment a patch is released. Bear in mind I'm talking about single-player games here. Seriously, what's with the several-hundred megabyte updates for Half-Life 2 every couple of weeks?
This is a sad face, on the real here.
Jesus Christ.
I'm reminded why I don't like spending large amounts of time with gamers.
I'm thinking your fingers need to be removed to prevent the spreading of Stupid from them.
Games with online features need to be all the same version in order to interact properly. Thus, forcing games to be updated before they can be played is the easiest, and most reasonable, solution to this. While you are correct in that this has very little effect on single player, aside from sending data to things like Leaderboards, it is much easier for Valve to force the update when it arrives to keep everyone on the same page.
The fact that NZ has a shitty infrastructure is no fault of Valves.
You do know there is an option under each game's properties that can prevent it from being automatically updated right?
In all seriousness though, you can turn autoupdates off on a game to game basis. Right click on it in the games window, properties, updates.
It makes a lot of sense that it got released on Steam several weeks after it came out on GH. They've got x amount of money secured, and Steam's got it's userbase, so why not? Would've been nice to know ahead of time, but whatever man.
I'll say this once: developers are not your enemy. Sometimes they make stupid business decisions. It's your call as a consumer to give them the money to continue making stupid decisions or not. In this case, they already had the money, but it wasn't a stupid decision.
I use Steam to buy all of my games (well 90% of them). I decided to pick it up on Greenhouse because it sounded as if it wasn't coming to Steam. Anyway... blah blah blah, forget about buying the other two chapters now. I highly doubt this was malicious or intentional, but it is just really disappointing. :x
I guess I will be more inclined to buy it a few years down the road when Steam gives away their games for the cheap.
(Please flame away. I know I didn't drop down and perform services for the PA/HH crew, so I am going to get it.) :P
Thanks for the responses too Robert.
I like to support PA, but I'm sure you understand how I feel cheated right now. Sure there are claims that these achievements will be added to the GH version of PAA, but these claims are vague and there is no time line set forth. For all I know we may not see these until the series is all done.
I do not own a 360 so buying the PC version was my only option, I was not upset before at the lack of achievements, but given that there is an enhanced version of the same product for the same price shortly after initial release, I can't really express my disappointment enough.
This post really sums up everything I don't understand about this negative reaction in one place.
I really don't understand how you feel cheated at all. Not at all. The game came out as announced in the methods announced and then they worked out a deal to distribute it in more ways, exactly like they said they were going to do. How many times did Vlad and Joel and Robert come in here and in interviews and said about different platforms that they want to get it to as many gamers as possible in as many ways possible. Just because you didn't have the patience to wait and see if it would be released on your preferred platform later on is not their fault.
And that's just starting off. How in the world do you consider achievements to be an "enhanced version". Do you not know that you've killed a ton of mimes? Do you really need the artificial encouragement of a little window popping up to tell you? I mean, if it was adding to a gamerscore, I could understand the competitiveness, but this is just a checkbox on a list.
But here's what really gets my goat about your complaint:
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=4699905#post4699905
On March 3rd, you said - "It really doesn't need to be available over Steam. They can just distribute it themselves and you can add it to Steam as a non-Steam game if you want the community overlay."
Then you continued throughout the thread to say why it wouldn't be a good idea for them to put it on Steam.
I had been looking forward to PAX again, but I doubt I'll bother. Being molested by the TSA was only worth it before the con hosts decided to get into the 'screw-you-over' business too.
I still think they didn't need to release it on Steam. Steam itself it not the issue. PC is my preferred platform, Steam is not my preferred digital distribution service. I'd rather give PA more profit. In return all I ask is to receive the same product on the platform I buy it on.
In fact I think releasing it so soon on Steam undermines the whole point of releasing it on Greenhouse Games. While GHG version lacks the extra features that Steam does, what incentive is there to buy future episodes from GHG when a more robust Steam version will either come out at the same time, or shortly after the GHG release.
I do feel achievements are an enhanced version. The Steam version has something my version does not, fun goals to track throughout gameplay. I rather enjoy achievements, it keeps me playing longer and adds more to my game.
Wow, you really need to calm down there man. I think the accusations of "deceptive marketing practices" might be just a tad overdramatic.
Cap, I wish I agreed with you, I really do. With any luck, tomorrow I will.
That said, from a calmer stance; Am I the only one who feels that the Steam release simultaneously undermines the GH project while punishing early-adopters by having more features available in the incompatible non-GH version that earns PA less money?
Anyone fool out there who want to buy my GH key for Ep 1? It would help me feel a lot less ripped-off picking up the Steam version.
It is exactly how I feel. I really don't understand why they even tried GH if they are now on Steam. That point was seemingly clear a month ago. Let's be honest... Most people who play and buy games through Steam are going to choose it over GH. I suspect sales through Steam will be much larger than GH for ep2.
I'd much rather get it from GH, but if they're not going to provide me the same features, what's the point?
I'd really like to see all this supposed "no Steam noise" from Penny-Arcade or HotHead.
Not too mention the fact that if you have been "shaking with anger" over a release on Steam, you have some serious fucking issues that should be dealt with before you start considering accruing legal fees.
As Vlad said, HH is in the business to make money on their game and give PA fans a good time.
GH, is in the business of getting other games that won't make it on steam a chance.
Seriously, screw those guys for trying to give you more options.
DAMN THEM STRAIGHT TO HELL.
But how can I prove to you I beat it using nothing but my penis?
I only died once when my wife needed me to open a jar for her.
I absolutely loved the game and played it twice. If I could keep track of achievements, I would probably play it again.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Alternatively, if you take this post as truth, once the Google bots hit it, it is stored for all perpetuity.
I can't pin down any official statement, but there was a question in a recent Wired interview about why Gabe and Tycho started Greenhouse when Steam and GameTap already existed:
http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/04/exclusive-inter.html
Rereading this though, it doesn't seem to imply that the game would only be available via Greenhouse for PC, and indeed, they later say they'd like to put it on other platforms eventually.
Still, it was this and other things the two had said (in interviews, on the front page I think) that made it seem that they were going with Greenhouse on the PC instead of Steam, not in addition to.
Well, here's the first things I see.
Also, let's quote that specifically, they say very clearly that it's nothing like Steam or Gametap in that it's not an application, it's just a store:
So in other words, no one ever said or suggested that it wasn't coming to steam.
So... For those of us who are Steam users, and would rather have a Steam game but already own the non-Steam version; Could we come up with a way to donate the non-steam keys to Childs-play? My aversion to buying-both-copies-when-I'm-only-going-to-use-one is greatly reduced if I feel my first $20 can still make someone happy (rather than the current feeling which would come closer to having lit a $20 bill aflame).
To the achievement haters: It's still a feature offered in one version, unavailable to users of another. Sure not everyone likes every feature, but to some of us, achievements provide a real value. Tracking them online lets us use them in a social context, seeing what our friends are up to and so forth. You don't have to feel it ads value to your experience to recognize that not everyone feels the same. (for the record, I didn't 'get' achievements either until I was playing Portal on Steam at the same time as friends were playing it on Xbox)
Let's say I reformat my machine. I don't want to go to 20 different places to redownload my games. Having one unified service to get all my games is vastly beneficial to me.
It's also beneficial to developers, because they wouldn't have to make one binary for Steam, one for Direct2Drive, one for GreenHouse, etc. Again, standards.
Also I really don't buy the argument that Steam is discriminatory to smaller developers, there's a lot of independent games on Steam, including some really obscure ones. It's totally a manner of money, but again how much money would be spent developing your own download service and paying for the bandwidth? I mean even beyond the technical side there's things like setting up your own payment processing, having your own support, etc. that's all costly.
You were threatening to sue over this a page ago, I think I'm going to need more time before I can take any of your posts seriously.