what is funny about the mormon church excommunicating their free-thinkers is that the religion is based on the concept of free thought, or it used to be.
if any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of god who giveth to all man equally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him
james 1:5 i believe if i am remembering correctly. these people lack wisdom, and they are going bout seeking it in their own way, but oh man the church hates that. (because it makes them look bad of course)
I would like to share with you a Gandhi quote that seems to fit the mind set of the thread at the moment: "I like your christ. But I do not like your christians"
Phonehand, when your religion imposed political beliefs via a "pay to pray" program like the Mormons, most people don't end up openly disagreeing until it reaches a boiling point and a powerful "loyal opposition" is formed.
When the LDS schisms I'll say "hey, I can't make blanket statements about Mormon politics!" but until such time.... I've gotta say that whatever silent opposition in their ranks is useless because they've denied their own responsibility.
Once again, I don't attend church and I haven't for many years. Generally speaking, members of a religious organization are sheep. There are quite a few publications by members discrediting aspects of the church's leadership but that type of thing goes mostly unnoticed and many times those members are excommunicated. Just like lots of religions!
And Wahhabi Muslims stone women for adultery, just like lots of religions. Since it's just like lots of religions, that makes it okay!
I just feel like you are singling out a religion for something all religions are guilty of. It's a basic flaw with organized groups such as. Plus you are a fuckwit. Sorry, bro, they have meds now.
what is funny about the mormon church excommunicating their free-thinkers is that the religion is based on the concept of free thought, or it used to be.
if any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of god who giveth to all man equally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him
james 1:5 i believe if i am remembering correctly. these people lack wisdom, and they are going bout seeking it in their own way, but oh man the church hates that. (because it makes them look bad of course)
it's just very interesting is all.
Yes, I think we have established corrupt leadership. You have still failed to explain your complete and utter ignorance about the actual religious beliefs you claim to know so much about though.
what is funny about the mormon church excommunicating their free-thinkers is that the religion is based on the concept of free thought, or it used to be.
if any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of god who giveth to all man equally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him
james 1:5 i believe if i am remembering correctly. these people lack wisdom, and they are going bout seeking it in their own way, but oh man the church hates that. (because it makes them look bad of course)
it's just very interesting is all.
Yes, I think we have established corrupt leadership. You have still failed to explain your complete and utter ignorance about the actual religious beliefs you claim to know so much about though.
you're an odd bird phonehand, you keep right on chuggin
Phonehand, when your religion imposed political beliefs via a "pay to pray" program like the Mormons, most people don't end up openly disagreeing until it reaches a boiling point and a powerful "loyal opposition" is formed.
When the LDS schisms I'll say "hey, I can't make blanket statements about Mormon politics!" but until such time.... I've gotta say that whatever silent opposition in their ranks is useless because they've denied their own responsibility.
Once again, I don't attend church and I haven't for many years. Generally speaking, members of a religious organization are sheep. There are quite a few publications by members discrediting aspects of the church's leadership but that type of thing goes mostly unnoticed and many times those members are excommunicated. Just like lots of religions!
Its one of the major reasons I don't go to Church anymore or consider myself Catholic. For me the dealbreaker was the clause that since gay people can't be married, and unmarried people can't have sex, gay people must swear themselves to a life of celibacy.
I just couldn't accept that, it was too much bullshit to swallow. There's a lot of great stuff out there in the Catechism about human value and stewardship of your fellow man and the Earth and all that jazz... but that gay-celibacy rule was just a poke in the eye of human rights to me, and the arguments that attempt to justify it to me make me frown.
I just feel like you are singling out a religion for something all religions are guilty of. It's a basic flaw with organized groups such as. Plus you are a fuckwit. Sorry, bro, they have meds now.
I am singling out a religion for their financial support and gruntwork done in the name of bigotry. Support that far exceeded that of any other group. I'm singling them out for prioritizing intolerance above all else in their religion, and doing their best to support it.
But let's be honest: this isn't anything new for the Mormon church. Hell, black people couldn't even get married in the church until 1978. If they're a bunch of racist assholes, why not be a bunch of homophobic, racist assholes, eh?
what is funny about the mormon church excommunicating their free-thinkers is that the religion is based on the concept of free thought, or it used to be.
if any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of god who giveth to all man equally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him
james 1:5 i believe if i am remembering correctly. these people lack wisdom, and they are going bout seeking it in their own way, but oh man the church hates that. (because it makes them look bad of course)
it's just very interesting is all.
Yes, I think we have established corrupt leadership. You have still failed to explain your complete and utter ignorance about the actual religious beliefs you claim to know so much about though.
you're an odd bird phonehand, you keep right on chuggin
I find the corruption of the Mormon high command so galling because it was a religion formed in America during the heyday of transcendentalism and deism, and seemed to follow those ideas, but as the years have gone by they've seemingly disregarded those principles and narrowed themselves onto a few focal doctrines, which draws a disturbing parallel to the Catholic Church prior to the Protestant Reformation, which is why I used the word "schism" quite on purpose a bit earlier.
one of my favorite things i have read regarding the church was a quote from Boyd K Packer, he is president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, not that i believe that means much to many of you
It is so easy to be turned about without realizing that it has happened to us. There are three areas where members of the Church, influenced by social and political unrest, are being caught up and led away. I chose these three because they have made major invasions into the membership of the Church. In each, the temptation is for us to turn about and face the wrong way, and it is hard to resist, for doing it seems so reasonable and right.
The dangers I speak of come from the gay-lesbian movement, the feminist movement (both of which are relatively new), and the ever-present challenge from the so-called scholars or intellectuals. Our local leaders must deal with all three of them with ever-increasing frequency.
what is funny about the mormon church excommunicating their free-thinkers is that the religion is based on the concept of free thought, or it used to be.
if any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of god who giveth to all man equally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him
james 1:5 i believe if i am remembering correctly. these people lack wisdom, and they are going bout seeking it in their own way, but oh man the church hates that. (because it makes them look bad of course)
it's just very interesting is all.
Yes, I think we have established corrupt leadership. You have still failed to explain your complete and utter ignorance about the actual religious beliefs you claim to know so much about though.
you're an odd bird phonehand, you keep right on chuggin
It bothers me that people around here take their cues about the mormon religion from the bullshit you drop.
I absolutely agree with all of you that Mormons should be forced to think the way you do
no toob, they don't have to, but i get to talk about how their beliefs affect my life, and complain when it hurts people i love, that is part of democracy.
go...i dunno, bow to a queen or something i suppose
what is funny about the mormon church excommunicating their free-thinkers is that the religion is based on the concept of free thought, or it used to be.
if any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of god who giveth to all man equally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him
james 1:5 i believe if i am remembering correctly. these people lack wisdom, and they are going bout seeking it in their own way, but oh man the church hates that. (because it makes them look bad of course)
it's just very interesting is all.
Yes, I think we have established corrupt leadership. You have still failed to explain your complete and utter ignorance about the actual religious beliefs you claim to know so much about though.
you're an odd bird phonehand, you keep right on chuggin
It bothers me that people around here take their cues about the mormon religion from the bullshit you drop.
then go ahead and drop your own bullshit, see if they wanna roll in yours, it means much less to me than it does to you apparently
I just feel like you are singling out a religion for something all religions are guilty of. It's a basic flaw with organized groups such as. Plus you are a fuckwit. Sorry, bro, they have meds now.
I am singling out a religion for their financial support and gruntwork done in the name of bigotry. Support that far exceeded that of any other group. I'm singling them out for prioritizing intolerance above all else in their religion, and doing their best to support it.
But let's be honest: this isn't anything new for the Mormon church. Hell, black people couldn't even get married in the church until 1978. If they're a bunch of racist assholes, why not be a bunch of homophobic, racist assholes, eh?
Good lord, it's like growing up all over again. I think my balls just dropped.
what is funny about the mormon church excommunicating their free-thinkers is that the religion is based on the concept of free thought, or it used to be.
if any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of god who giveth to all man equally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him
james 1:5 i believe if i am remembering correctly. these people lack wisdom, and they are going bout seeking it in their own way, but oh man the church hates that. (because it makes them look bad of course)
it's just very interesting is all.
Yes, I think we have established corrupt leadership. You have still failed to explain your complete and utter ignorance about the actual religious beliefs you claim to know so much about though.
you're an odd bird phonehand, you keep right on chuggin
It bothers me that people around here take their cues about the mormon religion from the bullshit you drop.
then go ahead and drop your own bullshit, see if they wanna roll in yours, it means much less to me than it does to you apparently
Knowing what I'm talking about might give that impression, yes
Listen, Phonehand, I grew up in a town with a very strong Mormon presence. A lot of my friends in middle school and high school were Mormons. Yet, to a person, the ones who ended up progressive people, believing in the fundamental equality of human beings, that homosexuals are entitled to equal rights, etc., have left the church. The ones who haven't come to those conclusions are the ones that are still members. And I'm not saying that they're terrible people or anything; no, if anything, they're really nice people (almost all of the Mormons I've met have been incredibly nice). I'm just saying that their support of the church and the policies it represents makes them intolerant douchebags. Very nice intolerant douchebags, but intolerant douchebags nonetheless.
Listen, Phonehand, I grew up in a town with a very strong Mormon presence. A lot of my friends in middle school and high school were Mormons. Yet, to a person, the ones who ended up progressive people, believing in the fundamental equality of human beings, that homosexuals are entitled to equal rights, etc., have left the church. The ones who haven't come to those conclusions are the ones that are still members. And I'm not saying that they're terrible people or anything; no, if anything, they're really nice people (almost all of the Mormons I've met have been incredibly nice). I'm just saying that their support of the church and the policies it represents makes them intolerant douchebags. Very nice intolerant douchebags, but intolerant douchebags nonetheless.
Good, you knew some guys. I know lots of guys. Some left the church, some remain. I live in Utah so I definitely know how that is. I'm not going to try and use personal experience to back up such an unquantifiable claim though.
just out of curiosity, you are upset that i said 'limbo' instead of 'waiting to enter the kingdom of heaven' still right?
I use the word limbo all the time.
You were incorrect about baptism being a way out of limbo.
Still, hours later, it is false.
Amazing, I know.
he way i was using it was less emphasizing 'out of limbo' and more stressing the 'they get into heaven now if they want' part
really though, why does this bother you so much, if anything it is a rather small discrepancy that anyone who cares enough to know more would do a quick wikipedia read on. and even if it was a mistake, why still stress on it as your only point to harp on me about hours later? we obviously corrected that false assumption that you felt was had
you can calm down now lil guy, i don' even think i have seen you here before, i wonder where you dredged up so much care regarding me. it's kinda sweet
Listen, Phonehand, I grew up in a town with a very strong Mormon presence. A lot of my friends in middle school and high school were Mormons. Yet, to a person, the ones who ended up progressive people, believing in the fundamental equality of human beings, that homosexuals are entitled to equal rights, etc., have left the church. The ones who haven't come to those conclusions are the ones that are still members. And I'm not saying that they're terrible people or anything; no, if anything, they're really nice people (almost all of the Mormons I've met have been incredibly nice). I'm just saying that their support of the church and the policies it represents makes them intolerant douchebags. Very nice intolerant douchebags, but intolerant douchebags nonetheless.
Good, you knew some guys. I know lots of guys. Some left the church, some remain. I live in Utah so I definitely know how that is. I'm not going to try and use personal experience to back up such an unquantifiable claim though.
Such an unquantifiable claim as what? I'd say I've laid out some pretty fantastically fucking compelling facts for the claims I've made. Let me know which of the following you disagree with:
1. The Mormon church told its membership to support the "Yes on 8" campaign.
2. Members of the Mormon church provided a majority of the financial support for the "Yes on 8" campaign.
3. Members of the Mormon church provided a huge amount of the legwork on the "Yes on 8" campaign.
4. The "Yes on 8" campaign was incredibly misleading, to the point where one could undoubtedly define it as "dishonest."
5. This was a campaign waged specifically to prevent gay people from being able to get legally married, and pass a law which would have had zero effect on any religious institution.
6. Mormons, in general, tithe.
7. The Mormon church itself provided financial support for the "Yes on 8" campaign, to the tune of about $200,000.
just out of curiosity, you are upset that i said 'limbo' instead of 'waiting to enter the kingdom of heaven' still right?
I use the word limbo all the time.
You were incorrect about baptism being a way out of limbo.
Still, hours later, it is false.
Amazing, I know.
he way i was using it was less emphasizing 'out of limbo' and more stressing the 'they get into heaven now if they want' part
really though, why does this bother you so much, if anything it is a rather small discrepancy that anyone who cares enough to know more would do a quick wikipedia read on. and even if it was a mistake, why still stress on it as your only point to harp on me about hours later? we obviously corrected that false assumption that you felt was had
you can calm down now lil guy, i don' even think i have seen you here before, i wonder where you dredged up so much care regarding me. it's kinda sweet
Quite an ego you have. You claim to fully understand the church, yet it is clear that you have many biased and skewed misconceptions. It was quite relevant to the discussion about baptism for the dead at hand, is all. Like I said, just calling your bs. Caring about the internet is overrated.
Listen, Phonehand, I grew up in a town with a very strong Mormon presence. A lot of my friends in middle school and high school were Mormons. Yet, to a person, the ones who ended up progressive people, believing in the fundamental equality of human beings, that homosexuals are entitled to equal rights, etc., have left the church. The ones who haven't come to those conclusions are the ones that are still members. And I'm not saying that they're terrible people or anything; no, if anything, they're really nice people (almost all of the Mormons I've met have been incredibly nice). I'm just saying that their support of the church and the policies it represents makes them intolerant douchebags. Very nice intolerant douchebags, but intolerant douchebags nonetheless.
Good, you knew some guys. I know lots of guys. Some left the church, some remain. I live in Utah so I definitely know how that is. I'm not going to try and use personal experience to back up such an unquantifiable claim though.
Such an unquantifiable claim as what? I'd say I've laid out some pretty fantastically fucking compelling facts for the claims I've made. Let me know which of the following you disagree with:
1. The Mormon church told its membership to support the "Yes on 8" campaign.
2. Members of the Mormon church provided a majority of the financial support for the "Yes on 8" campaign.
3. Members of the Mormon church provided a huge amount of the legwork on the "Yes on 8" campaign.
4. The "Yes on 8" campaign was incredibly misleading, to the point where one could undoubtedly define it as "dishonest."
5. This was a campaign waged specifically to prevent gay people from being able to get legally married, and pass a law which would have had zero effect on any religious institution.
6. Mormons, in general, tithe.
7. The Mormon church itself provided financial support for the "Yes on 8" campaign, to the tune of about $200,000.
just out of curiosity, you are upset that i said 'limbo' instead of 'waiting to enter the kingdom of heaven' still right?
I use the word limbo all the time.
You were incorrect about baptism being a way out of limbo.
Still, hours later, it is false.
Amazing, I know.
he way i was using it was less emphasizing 'out of limbo' and more stressing the 'they get into heaven now if they want' part
really though, why does this bother you so much, if anything it is a rather small discrepancy that anyone who cares enough to know more would do a quick wikipedia read on. and even if it was a mistake, why still stress on it as your only point to harp on me about hours later? we obviously corrected that false assumption that you felt was had
you can calm down now lil guy, i don' even think i have seen you here before, i wonder where you dredged up so much care regarding me. it's kinda sweet
Quite an ego you have. You claim to fully understand the church, yet it is clear that you have many biased and skewed misconceptions. It was quite relevant to the discussion about baptism for the dead at hand, is all. Like I said, just calling your bs. Caring about the internet is overrated.
ah yes, that is why you have been making such a stink over what is (in your eyes) one mistake, and to someone you're never even spoken to before at that.
and i really fail to see where my ego comes into play here, i was just wondering why you seem to want to be on my nuts so badly
just out of curiosity, you are upset that i said 'limbo' instead of 'waiting to enter the kingdom of heaven' still right?
I use the word limbo all the time.
You were incorrect about baptism being a way out of limbo.
Still, hours later, it is false.
Amazing, I know.
he way i was using it was less emphasizing 'out of limbo' and more stressing the 'they get into heaven now if they want' part
really though, why does this bother you so much, if anything it is a rather small discrepancy that anyone who cares enough to know more would do a quick wikipedia read on. and even if it was a mistake, why still stress on it as your only point to harp on me about hours later? we obviously corrected that false assumption that you felt was had
you can calm down now lil guy, i don' even think i have seen you here before, i wonder where you dredged up so much care regarding me. it's kinda sweet
Quite an ego you have. You claim to fully understand the church, yet it is clear that you have many biased and skewed misconceptions. It was quite relevant to the discussion about baptism for the dead at hand, is all. Like I said, just calling your bs. Caring about the internet is overrated.
ah yes, that is why you have been making such a stink over what is (in your eyes) one mistake, and to someone you're never even spoken to before at that.
and i really fail to see where my ego comes into play here, i was just wondering why you seem to want to be on my nuts so badly
Let's not be silly. You have made more than one post in this thread. I can understand people who know nothing about the religion making outrageous claims, but when you claim to have expert knowledge of the situation I expect more out of you than contemptuous adolescent slobber. I have many friends and family members in the church who are quite progressive and intellectual people, were disgusted by Prop 8, even protested(!), and I feel that I owe it to those people to not let them be dragged through the mud.
are you completely ignoring how i said the members who protested and spoke out are to be commended? nowhere did i say the church and all its members are horrible, just the majority
are you completely ignoring how i said the members who protested and spoke out are to be commended? nowhere did i say the church and all its members are horrible, just the majority
Nope! But that wasn't really what I was talking about. When you make extreme claims about people's beliefs, I think I have a responsibility to point out the error of your statements. There is a reason that many people remain ignorant about the church and it's because of that kind of thing!
Hey V remember when we played CS:S Zombies? That was good times and I really had tons of fun. But I guess you kids are all hooked on that Left 4 Dead these days.
Hey V remember when we played CS:S Zombies? That was good times and I really had tons of fun. But I guess you kids are all hooked on that Left 4 Dead these days.
Those were awesome times. I can't even remember half the tweaks I employed to play CS:Zombies properly, but I do remember at one point making the rule that you could only buy 1 shotgun and no ammo for it, and then one pistol and ammo for that, so you had 8 guaranteed kills with the pump shotgun before being relegated to pistols. Nowadays CS gives you a full load of ammo when you buy a gun, so kinda ruined that "survival horror" aspect I was gunning for.
Hey V remember when we played CS:S Zombies? That was good times and I really had tons of fun. But I guess you kids are all hooked on that Left 4 Dead these days.
Those were awesome times. I can't even remember half the tweaks I employed to play CS:Zombies properly, but I do remember at one point making the rule that you could only buy 1 shotgun and no ammo for it, and then one pistol and ammo for that, so you had 8 guaranteed kills with the pump shotgun before being relegated to pistols. Nowadays CS gives you a full load of ammo when you buy a gun, so kinda ruined that "survival horror" aspect I was gunning for.
Well, it's like I always tried to play it with other people later and it was always gay and wonky. So props on that front.
Posts
if any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of god who giveth to all man equally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him
james 1:5 i believe if i am remembering correctly. these people lack wisdom, and they are going bout seeking it in their own way, but oh man the church hates that. (because it makes them look bad of course)
it's just very interesting is all.
Yes, I think we have established corrupt leadership. You have still failed to explain your complete and utter ignorance about the actual religious beliefs you claim to know so much about though.
you're an odd bird phonehand, you keep right on chuggin
Its one of the major reasons I don't go to Church anymore or consider myself Catholic. For me the dealbreaker was the clause that since gay people can't be married, and unmarried people can't have sex, gay people must swear themselves to a life of celibacy.
I just couldn't accept that, it was too much bullshit to swallow. There's a lot of great stuff out there in the Catechism about human value and stewardship of your fellow man and the Earth and all that jazz... but that gay-celibacy rule was just a poke in the eye of human rights to me, and the arguments that attempt to justify it to me make me frown.
But let's be honest: this isn't anything new for the Mormon church. Hell, black people couldn't even get married in the church until 1978. If they're a bunch of racist assholes, why not be a bunch of homophobic, racist assholes, eh?
I find the corruption of the Mormon high command so galling because it was a religion formed in America during the heyday of transcendentalism and deism, and seemed to follow those ideas, but as the years have gone by they've seemingly disregarded those principles and narrowed themselves onto a few focal doctrines, which draws a disturbing parallel to the Catholic Church prior to the Protestant Reformation, which is why I used the word "schism" quite on purpose a bit earlier.
I don't think that they should be forced to think the way I do.
I think that it would be nice if they at least acknowledged that they way they think is wrong and that I am right.
it just made me giggle a whole lot
It bothers me that people around here take their cues about the mormon religion from the bullshit you drop.
no toob, they don't have to, but i get to talk about how their beliefs affect my life, and complain when it hurts people i love, that is part of democracy.
go...i dunno, bow to a queen or something i suppose
Good lord, it's like growing up all over again. I think my balls just dropped.
I use the word limbo all the time.
You were incorrect about baptism being a way out of limbo.
Still, hours later, it is false.
Amazing, I know.
Good, you knew some guys. I know lots of guys. Some left the church, some remain. I live in Utah so I definitely know how that is. I'm not going to try and use personal experience to back up such an unquantifiable claim though.
he way i was using it was less emphasizing 'out of limbo' and more stressing the 'they get into heaven now if they want' part
really though, why does this bother you so much, if anything it is a rather small discrepancy that anyone who cares enough to know more would do a quick wikipedia read on. and even if it was a mistake, why still stress on it as your only point to harp on me about hours later? we obviously corrected that false assumption that you felt was had
you can calm down now lil guy, i don' even think i have seen you here before, i wonder where you dredged up so much care regarding me. it's kinda sweet
The Book of Mormon is very boring.
Having many wives is a huge hassle.
Avenging Angels are really frightening.
1. The Mormon church told its membership to support the "Yes on 8" campaign.
2. Members of the Mormon church provided a majority of the financial support for the "Yes on 8" campaign.
3. Members of the Mormon church provided a huge amount of the legwork on the "Yes on 8" campaign.
4. The "Yes on 8" campaign was incredibly misleading, to the point where one could undoubtedly define it as "dishonest."
5. This was a campaign waged specifically to prevent gay people from being able to get legally married, and pass a law which would have had zero effect on any religious institution.
6. Mormons, in general, tithe.
7. The Mormon church itself provided financial support for the "Yes on 8" campaign, to the tune of about $200,000.
8. The Mormon church lied about said support.
Quite an ego you have. You claim to fully understand the church, yet it is clear that you have many biased and skewed misconceptions. It was quite relevant to the discussion about baptism for the dead at hand, is all. Like I said, just calling your bs. Caring about the internet is overrated.
ah yes, that is why you have been making such a stink over what is (in your eyes) one mistake, and to someone you're never even spoken to before at that.
and i really fail to see where my ego comes into play here, i was just wondering why you seem to want to be on my nuts so badly
i've just never noticed you i suppose, i meant no offense touchytouchy.
wait, did you used to have an asian girl on a blue background in your sig?
Bahahahaa
Consider me un-disappointed. this made my day.
PS 2007 join date? Puh-leeeease.
Phonehand is the guy who has Rose Byrne often in either sig or avatar. Bonehand has been around for quite some time.
Nope! But that wasn't really what I was talking about. When you make extreme claims about people's beliefs, I think I have a responsibility to point out the error of your statements. There is a reason that many people remain ignorant about the church and it's because of that kind of thing!
Those were awesome times. I can't even remember half the tweaks I employed to play CS:Zombies properly, but I do remember at one point making the rule that you could only buy 1 shotgun and no ammo for it, and then one pistol and ammo for that, so you had 8 guaranteed kills with the pump shotgun before being relegated to pistols. Nowadays CS gives you a full load of ammo when you buy a gun, so kinda ruined that "survival horror" aspect I was gunning for.
Well, it's like I always tried to play it with other people later and it was always gay and wonky. So props on that front.