Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.
I was only combative on that last one, I've been completely on the up and up with every other post.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I am against Chivalry because of its inherent misogyny as well as the classism in it. However I was still raised that you do things that some might feel fall under the umbrella of chivalry, like that you should always give up your seat on a bus to a woman. Now don't get me wrong, I'd give up my seat to an older person, a father with his child, or someone who seemed injured or just really tired as well, and I think that a woman should give up her seat to those categories as well if she is not in one of them. The fact remains that I would still give up my seat to a woman of my own age who is in just as good as shape as them and if I didn't and my mother heard about it I would definitely be in trouble. I am not sure if this makes me a hypocrite but if it does I am fairly OK with that.
As far as the whole Titanic thing I would like to think that if I was in that situation I would operate pretty much by the same standard as my bus seat rule up there. That is I believe that a woman should allow for instance, a father and his child to get on the boat over herself but I still would expect myself to give my seat up to her. I will not try to justify this by and pragmatic arguments or anything like that because they would be lies. It is simply what I feel is appropriate to do in the situation and if I am going to die I would like to at least die polite.
Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.
That was hardly combative for Sentry. You should see his PMs. Mortal Kombat.
lmao.. coming from you, that's freaking hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, chivalry by itself is offensive... being respectful to everyone regardless of gender is not, and it accomplishes the same damn thing.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.
That was hardly combative for Sentry. You should see his PMs. Mortal Kombat.
lmao.. coming from you, that's freaking hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, chivalry by itself is offensive... being respectful to everyone regardless of gender is not, and it accomplishes the same damn thing.
But if a man happens to treat a woman a bit better than some other dude in a situation then no one should lose sleep over it either.
Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.
That was hardly combative for Sentry. You should see his PMs. Mortal Kombat.
lmao.. coming from you, that's freaking hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, chivalry by itself is offensive... being respectful to everyone regardless of gender is not, and it accomplishes the same damn thing.
But if a man happens to treat a woman a bit better than some other dude in a situation then no one should lose sleep over it either.
No... that again would be misogynistic. Because there is no reason why a man would need to treat a woman better in any given situation with some small exceptions.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.
That was hardly combative for Sentry. You should see his PMs. Mortal Kombat.
lmao.. coming from you, that's freaking hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, chivalry by itself is offensive... being respectful to everyone regardless of gender is not, and it accomplishes the same damn thing.
But if a man happens to treat a woman a bit better than some other dude in a situation then no one should lose sleep over it either.
No... that again would be misogynistic. Because there is no reason why a man would need to treat a woman better in any given situation with some small exceptions.
Untrue. I am allowed to have preferences in who I give a shit about, and if I choose to preferentially help women rather than men simply because thats what I'd rather do then it is not misogynistic at all.
Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.
That was hardly combative for Sentry. You should see his PMs. Mortal Kombat.
lmao.. coming from you, that's freaking hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, chivalry by itself is offensive... being respectful to everyone regardless of gender is not, and it accomplishes the same damn thing.
But if a man happens to treat a woman a bit better than some other dude in a situation then no one should lose sleep over it either.
No... that again would be misogynistic. Because there is no reason why a man would need to treat a woman better in any given situation with some small exceptions.
I know a pretty good reason: Because he fucking feels like it.
Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.
That was hardly combative for Sentry. You should see his PMs. Mortal Kombat.
lmao.. coming from you, that's freaking hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, chivalry by itself is offensive... being respectful to everyone regardless of gender is not, and it accomplishes the same damn thing.
But if a man happens to treat a woman a bit better than some other dude in a situation then no one should lose sleep over it either.
No... that again would be misogynistic. Because there is no reason why a man would need to treat a woman better in any given situation with some small exceptions.
Untrue. I am allowed to have preferences in who I give a shit about, and if I choose to preferentially help women rather than men simply because thats what I'd rather do then it is not misogynistic at all.
I guess it would depend on why. You are right though, as guess on the surface that just makes you a dick. But without any kind of explanation, I would have no trouble labeling you a misogynist and going about my merry way.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.
That was hardly combative for Sentry. You should see his PMs. Mortal Kombat.
lmao.. coming from you, that's freaking hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, chivalry by itself is offensive... being respectful to everyone regardless of gender is not, and it accomplishes the same damn thing.
But if a man happens to treat a woman a bit better than some other dude in a situation then no one should lose sleep over it either.
No... that again would be misogynistic. Because there is no reason why a man would need to treat a woman better in any given situation with some small exceptions.
Untrue. I am allowed to have preferences in who I give a shit about, and if I choose to preferentially help women rather than men simply because thats what I'd rather do then it is not misogynistic at all.
Depends. It could be misandry instead. It could also definitely still be misogyny.
Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.
That was hardly combative for Sentry. You should see his PMs. Mortal Kombat.
lmao.. coming from you, that's freaking hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, chivalry by itself is offensive... being respectful to everyone regardless of gender is not, and it accomplishes the same damn thing.
But if a man happens to treat a woman a bit better than some other dude in a situation then no one should lose sleep over it either.
No... that again would be misogynistic. Because there is no reason why a man would need to treat a woman better in any given situation with some small exceptions.
I know a pretty good reason: Because he fucking feels like it.
Then chances are, he's not the type of person that cares about being labeled a misogynist... and if he is, he can fucking live with it.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.
That was hardly combative for Sentry. You should see his PMs. Mortal Kombat.
lmao.. coming from you, that's freaking hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, chivalry by itself is offensive... being respectful to everyone regardless of gender is not, and it accomplishes the same damn thing.
But if a man happens to treat a woman a bit better than some other dude in a situation then no one should lose sleep over it either.
No... that again would be misogynistic. Because there is no reason why a man would need to treat a woman better in any given situation with some small exceptions.
I know a pretty good reason: Because he fucking feels like it.
Then chances are, he's not the type of person that cares about being labeled a misogynist... and if he is, he can fucking live with it.
Of course he can live with it, you honestly think people are killing themselves because people fucking label them as something they're not? Honestly man, no one gives a shit. It's just a part of life.
honestly... how I get drawn into a debate with Obs is completely fucking beyond me. It's like Lucy with the football, only it's a Lucy who has been in a severe car accident and lost most of her mental faculties. All she can do is drool and pull away a football.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Women and children first is most certainly not a product of the misognistic beliefs of the time, it is a remnant belief from all primitive tribes and hunter gatherers. In a crisis, decisions must be made quickly, and a communal understanding of who was most important was key. In a disaster in a primitive society you save people in this order.
Young women between 16 and 25
Girls between 10 and 16
Men/Boys between 10 and 18
Older women
Older men
Young children between 0 and 10
The elderly
Its quite simply based on utility and survival. Young women are the most useful, since they can breed a lot and gather food. Girls will soon be young women and so on.
Very young children are actually least important to save, since they don't do anything useful nor do they represent a significant loss of resources. The only reason its 'Women and Children' first is to make the most important people (young women) leave quickly with their children.
Nowadays the same expression would logically go "Educated and fertile married couples first!"
edit - I suppose they don't have to be married! Perhaps "Educated and fertile people who don't mind having sex with each other to produce children first!"
where did you get this list from? Women and children are only the most valuable in certain situations. Like I said before, several eastern nations are having imbalance of gender populations since so many girls are abandoned as babies since males are more valuable to have children.
Surely more so in those nations than anywhere, women are more crucial to the survival of the society than men?
Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.
That was hardly combative for Sentry. You should see his PMs. Mortal Kombat.
lmao.. coming from you, that's freaking hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, chivalry by itself is offensive... being respectful to everyone regardless of gender is not, and it accomplishes the same damn thing.
But if a man happens to treat a woman a bit better than some other dude in a situation then no one should lose sleep over it either.
No... that again would be misogynistic. Because there is no reason why a man would need to treat a woman better in any given situation with some small exceptions.
Untrue. I am allowed to have preferences in who I give a shit about, and if I choose to preferentially help women rather than men simply because thats what I'd rather do then it is not misogynistic at all.
I guess it would depend on why. You are right though, as guess on the surface that just makes you a dick. But without any kind of explanation, I would have no trouble labeling you a misogynist and going about my merry way.
Wow, you are just a seething cauldron of hate aren't you? If you hold a preference which hurts noone, and choose to act upon it its perfectly natural. Hell, I also preferentially help older people and young children. If I'm in a car park, and two people are struggling with something heavy and need help if the situation is equal then I apply my own preferences.
Heck, I prefer going out with Blondes too? And dating people over 25, who have been to college. Do these preferences make me a dick? They have far more impact on those around me than my enjoyment of being nice to women.
treating women well through chivalry and treating them poorly through misogony are two sides of the same coin. they both arose from the same notions of female inferiority. even now the notions of chivalry are still inherently sexist - that women can't pay for themselves for dinner, that they need doors opened, and chairs held out. Even if you are doing it to be polite or nice or whatever, that's what the origins of the actions are from.
If women were able to get the same pay as men, if they were viewed the same as men physically, then in an ideal world they wouldn't need such 'chivalry.'
If women were able to get the same pay as men, if they were viewed the same as men physically, then in an ideal world they wouldn't need such 'chivalry.'
And the world would be a very boring place indeed.
Women and children first is most certainly not a product of the misognistic beliefs of the time, it is a remnant belief from all primitive tribes and hunter gatherers. In a crisis, decisions must be made quickly, and a communal understanding of who was most important was key. In a disaster in a primitive society you save people in this order.
Young women between 16 and 25
Girls between 10 and 16
Men/Boys between 10 and 18
Older women
Older men
Young children between 0 and 10
The elderly
Its quite simply based on utility and survival. Young women are the most useful, since they can breed a lot and gather food. Girls will soon be young women and so on.
Very young children are actually least important to save, since they don't do anything useful nor do they represent a significant loss of resources. The only reason its 'Women and Children' first is to make the most important people (young women) leave quickly with their children.
Nowadays the same expression would logically go "Educated and fertile married couples first!"
edit - I suppose they don't have to be married! Perhaps "Educated and fertile people who don't mind having sex with each other to produce children first!"
where did you get this list from? Women and children are only the most valuable in certain situations. Like I said before, several eastern nations are having imbalance of gender populations since so many girls are abandoned as babies since males are more valuable to have children.
Surely more so in those nations than anywhere, women are more crucial to the survival of the society than men?
I don't know about more crucial, but it's a serious problem. The imbalance is beginning to rear it's ugly head, and in the next gneration there isn't going to be enough women to go around so to speak. There's no such thing as a biological need for a gender or group of people - males are socially (and thus arbitrarily) valuable in these countries so they are valued over female babies.
Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.
That was hardly combative for Sentry. You should see his PMs. Mortal Kombat.
lmao.. coming from you, that's freaking hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, chivalry by itself is offensive... being respectful to everyone regardless of gender is not, and it accomplishes the same damn thing.
But if a man happens to treat a woman a bit better than some other dude in a situation then no one should lose sleep over it either.
No... that again would be misogynistic. Because there is no reason why a man would need to treat a woman better in any given situation with some small exceptions.
Untrue. I am allowed to have preferences in who I give a shit about, and if I choose to preferentially help women rather than men simply because thats what I'd rather do then it is not misogynistic at all.
I guess it would depend on why. You are right though, as guess on the surface that just makes you a dick. But without any kind of explanation, I would have no trouble labeling you a misogynist and going about my merry way.
Wow, you are just a seething cauldron of hate aren't you? If you hold a preference which hurts noone, and choose to act upon it its perfectly natural. Hell, I also preferentially help older people and young children. If I'm in a car park, and two people are struggling with something heavy and need help if the situation is equal then I apply my own preferences.
Heck, I prefer going out with Blondes too? And dating people over 25, who have been to college. Do these preferences make me a dick? They have far more impact on those around me than my enjoyment of being nice to women.
I'm not hating, really. What I meant was, if you don't care if someone labels you for how you act, then act any way you please. But only being polite to women is easy to see how that could be viewed as misogynistic. And that's complete different from your dating preferences, so you can keep your false dichotomy.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
If women were able to get the same pay as men, if they were viewed the same as men physically, then in an ideal world they wouldn't need such 'chivalry.'
And the world would be a very boring place indeed.
i too dread the horrible specter of gender equality
If women were able to get the same pay as men, if they were viewed the same as men physically, then in an ideal world they wouldn't need such 'chivalry.'
And the world would be a very boring place indeed.
i too dread the horrible specter of gender equality
are you trying to be difficult obs?
No, I'm just pointing out that in the real world, Women aren't men, and men aren't women. That's what's good about the world.
Our goal shouldn't be to make a world where the genders are so equal that they lose the aspects that attract them together in the first place. Women and Men are complements to each other, every woman should need a man and every man should need a woman. Neither gender is superior to the other, but together they can become far greater.
If women were able to get the same pay as men, if they were viewed the same as men physically, then in an ideal world they wouldn't need such 'chivalry.'
And the world would be a very boring place indeed.
If women were able to get the same pay as men, if they were viewed the same as men physically, then in an ideal world they wouldn't need such 'chivalry.'
And the world would be a very boring place indeed.
i too dread the horrible specter of gender equality
are you trying to be difficult obs?
No, I'm just pointing out that in the real world, Women aren't men, and men aren't women. That's what's good about the world.
Our goal shouldn't be to make a world where the genders are so equal that they lose the aspects that attract them together in the first place. Women and Men are complements to each other, every woman should need a man and every man should need a woman. Neither gender is superior to the other, but together they can become far greater.
I don't think pay scale and the physical ability to pull open doors and whatnot are essential parts of our gender identity.
If women were able to get the same pay as men, if they were viewed the same as men physically, then in an ideal world they wouldn't need such 'chivalry.'
And the world would be a very boring place indeed.
i too dread the horrible specter of gender equality
are you trying to be difficult obs?
No, I'm just pointing out that in the real world, Women aren't men, and men aren't women. That's what's good about the world.
Our goal shouldn't be to make a world where the genders are so equal that they lose the aspects that attract them together in the first place. Women and Men are complements to each other, every woman should need a man and every man should need a woman. Neither gender is superior to the other, but together they can become far greater.
What part of being a woman requires men to be more polite to them?
Edit: Also, cause you feel like it is a terrible answer. There's a lot of dick things that can be explained by you feel like it.
Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?
Which part, the inherent misogyny? Or the.... inherent misogyny? Yes. Yes we do.
So if the lady I'm with is cold and I offer her my jacket...it's because I hate women?
If you have some kind of relationship with this person, then I would say its just doing something nice for someone you care about. If the woman is a stranger, then that strikes me as a little creepy and you may be a bit of a misogynist.
If women were able to get the same pay as men, if they were viewed the same as men physically, then in an ideal world they wouldn't need such 'chivalry.'
And the world would be a very boring place indeed.
i too dread the horrible specter of gender equality
are you trying to be difficult obs?
No, I'm just pointing out that in the real world, Women aren't men, and men aren't women. That's what's good about the world.
Our goal shouldn't be to make a world where the genders are so equal that they lose the aspects that attract them together in the first place. Women and Men are complements to each other, every woman should need a man and every man should need a woman. Neither gender is superior to the other, but together they can become far greater.
What part of being a woman requires men to be more polite to them?
Edit: Also, cause you feel like it is a terrible answer. There's a lot of dick things that can be explained by you feel like it.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I'm really sad... now I have to change my signature.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Posts
I was only combative on that last one, I've been completely on the up and up with every other post.
As far as the whole Titanic thing I would like to think that if I was in that situation I would operate pretty much by the same standard as my bus seat rule up there. That is I believe that a woman should allow for instance, a father and his child to get on the boat over herself but I still would expect myself to give my seat up to her. I will not try to justify this by and pragmatic arguments or anything like that because they would be lies. It is simply what I feel is appropriate to do in the situation and if I am going to die I would like to at least die polite.
That was hardly combative for Sentry. You should see his PMs. Mortal Kombat.
lmao.. coming from you, that's freaking hilarious.
Anyway, the point is, chivalry by itself is offensive... being respectful to everyone regardless of gender is not, and it accomplishes the same damn thing.
But if a man happens to treat a woman a bit better than some other dude in a situation then no one should lose sleep over it either.
No... that again would be misogynistic. Because there is no reason why a man would need to treat a woman better in any given situation with some small exceptions.
Only if he rides that mare.
Untrue. I am allowed to have preferences in who I give a shit about, and if I choose to preferentially help women rather than men simply because thats what I'd rather do then it is not misogynistic at all.
I know a pretty good reason: Because he fucking feels like it.
I guess it would depend on why. You are right though, as guess on the surface that just makes you a dick. But without any kind of explanation, I would have no trouble labeling you a misogynist and going about my merry way.
Depends. It could be misandry instead. It could also definitely still be misogyny.
Then chances are, he's not the type of person that cares about being labeled a misogynist... and if he is, he can fucking live with it.
So if I "fucking feel like" only promoting men in my company, I'm not a misogynist.
Of course he can live with it, you honestly think people are killing themselves because people fucking label them as something they're not? Honestly man, no one gives a shit. It's just a part of life.
Surely more so in those nations than anywhere, women are more crucial to the survival of the society than men?
Wow, you are just a seething cauldron of hate aren't you? If you hold a preference which hurts noone, and choose to act upon it its perfectly natural. Hell, I also preferentially help older people and young children. If I'm in a car park, and two people are struggling with something heavy and need help if the situation is equal then I apply my own preferences.
Heck, I prefer going out with Blondes too? And dating people over 25, who have been to college. Do these preferences make me a dick? They have far more impact on those around me than my enjoyment of being nice to women.
treating women well through chivalry and treating them poorly through misogony are two sides of the same coin. they both arose from the same notions of female inferiority. even now the notions of chivalry are still inherently sexist - that women can't pay for themselves for dinner, that they need doors opened, and chairs held out. Even if you are doing it to be polite or nice or whatever, that's what the origins of the actions are from.
If women were able to get the same pay as men, if they were viewed the same as men physically, then in an ideal world they wouldn't need such 'chivalry.'
And the world would be a very boring place indeed.
I don't know about more crucial, but it's a serious problem. The imbalance is beginning to rear it's ugly head, and in the next gneration there isn't going to be enough women to go around so to speak. There's no such thing as a biological need for a gender or group of people - males are socially (and thus arbitrarily) valuable in these countries so they are valued over female babies.
I'm not hating, really. What I meant was, if you don't care if someone labels you for how you act, then act any way you please. But only being polite to women is easy to see how that could be viewed as misogynistic. And that's complete different from your dating preferences, so you can keep your false dichotomy.
i too dread the horrible specter of gender equality
are you trying to be difficult obs?
So if the lady I'm with is cold and I offer her my jacket...it's because I hate women?
No, I'm just pointing out that in the real world, Women aren't men, and men aren't women. That's what's good about the world.
Our goal shouldn't be to make a world where the genders are so equal that they lose the aspects that attract them together in the first place. Women and Men are complements to each other, every woman should need a man and every man should need a woman. Neither gender is superior to the other, but together they can become far greater.
What if the lady in this scenario were a man?
I don't think pay scale and the physical ability to pull open doors and whatnot are essential parts of our gender identity.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Edit: Also, cause you feel like it is a terrible answer. There's a lot of dick things that can be explained by you feel like it.
If you have some kind of relationship with this person, then I would say its just doing something nice for someone you care about. If the woman is a stranger, then that strikes me as a little creepy and you may be a bit of a misogynist.
Women attract attention, men give attention.
This.....this is the......
stalkers.......rapists.....
*sigh*
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche