EDIT: non speed Warp Prisms are the same speed as Medivacs.
I think I would be less snarky about it if it didn't feel like every time I check the thread, something new that Terran has is "completely OP," while people think neither of the other races has anything even remotely imbalanced.
Faster as in a terran drop can get in, drop, wipe out a bunch of shit, and get out much quicker than a toss/zerg drop can. Also a terran drop doesn't have to deploy/undeploy to work its magic, but I understand that that's a perk.
Easier because you're already going to have medivacs and marines as part of your standard army. You don't have to go out of your way to drop. No additional structures or research. Just do it whenever you want. You have the tools. Also your transport heals your stimmed units, adding to its efficacy.
More damaging? Well, I guess we'll agree to disagree. Frankly, I've seen warp prism warp in drops be extremely damaging only a handful of times.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Faster as in a terran drop can get in, drop, wipe out a bunch of shit, and get out much quicker than a toss/zerg drop can. Also a terran drop doesn't have to deploy/undeploy to work its magic, but I understand that that's a perk.
Gotcha. I can agree with this. Stimmed Marauders, anyone? SHOULD NOT DO SO MUCH DAMAGE TO BUILDINGS
Easier because you're already going to have medivacs and marines as part of your standard army. You don't have to go out of your way to drop. No additional structures or research. Just do it whenever you want. You have the tools. Also your transport heals your stimmed units, adding to its efficacy.
More damaging? Well, I guess we'll agree to disagree. Frankly, I've seen warp prism warp in drops be extremely damaging only a handful of times.
The sample size on warp prism drops is woefully small; recently WhiteRa has been using them to amazing effect, I think there's a lot of potential there that hasn't been fully tapped yet.
does anyone have any good builds or replays of a fast phoenix build? i love going phoenixes for harass but there's a huge window of opportunity when i'm vulnerable to just being straight up killed because phoenixes suck in a fight.
Is building a WP really going "out of your way", though? It won't prove anything at my terribad level of play, but now I'm interested to see how often I can sneak a WP/4 zealot drop into my play without feeling like I'm throwing away the midgame Big Battle(tm) for those 6 zealots' worth on the front line.
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
I think you'd have to do something with the WP drop, beyond the drop, to make it worth while.
Whether this is poking at the front if they move their army to take out your drop, or expanding, or buying time for higher tech etc..
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Gateway units just don't kill workers very well. You're not likely to kill 400 minerals worth of workers if you send 4 zealots into their mineral lines without Charge, and even then you might not manage it. And if you send stalkers the break-even point is even higher.
Gateway units just don't kill workers very well. You're not likely to kill 400 minerals worth of workers if you send 4 zealots into their mineral lines without Charge, and even then you might not manage it. And if you send stalkers the break-even point is even higher.
Is building a WP really going "out of your way", though? It won't prove anything at my terribad level of play, but now I'm interested to see how often I can sneak a WP/4 zealot drop into my play without feeling like I'm throwing away the midgame Big Battle(tm) for those 6 zealots' worth on the front line.
Say you're playing terran. You need to build two observers in case of Banshee. Then you'll probably want an immortal in case of marauder push. Then you will want to build colossus and never stop. mmm... colossus
Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
That's why I think the goal of a WP drop (pre storm) has to be different to a Medivac drop.
Terran: drops to snipe workers/structures
Protoss: drops to "???" (where ??? could be something I mentioned before)
Zerg: drops to take out armies (banelings), elevator entire armies (a la GSL where we saw a Zerg drop a ton of Hydras in a main) and probably more I don't know
Gateway units just don't kill workers very well. You're not likely to kill 400 minerals worth of workers if you send 4 zealots into their mineral lines without Charge, and even then you might not manage it. And if you send stalkers the break-even point is even higher.
Zealots tear mineral lines a new asshole, I'm not sure what games you've been watching.
Gateway units just don't kill workers very well. You're not likely to kill 400 minerals worth of workers if you send 4 zealots into their mineral lines without Charge, and even then you might not manage it. And if you send stalkers the break-even point is even higher.
Zealots tear mineral lines a new asshole, I'm not sure what games you've been watching.
They're pretty good when they can attack, but before charge workers are faster. So you can still kill some and interrupt mining time, but they still aren't anywhere near as good as stimmed marines.
toss drops are best used for either DTs or as a distraction. I haven't done this in a long time but i used to warp in 4 chargelots with a WP, watch the army stream out of the natural to take care of the minor threat, and swarm in while FFing the ramp. Take out the natural and immediately back out to avoid fighting at a choke.
It worked really well, but more skilled players probably wont overcompensate
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
I wonder, Guek, if when you see they only pull a few units to take out your drop.. you just warp in more.
If you can always keep the army in their main slightly larger than whatever you send, you're essentially carving up part of the army each time (and then if they "over" compensate, you can swarm in the front?)
Gateway units just don't kill workers very well. You're not likely to kill 400 minerals worth of workers if you send 4 zealots into their mineral lines without Charge, and even then you might not manage it. And if you send stalkers the break-even point is even higher.
Zealots tear mineral lines a new asshole, I'm not sure what games you've been watching.
Against people who don't notice a drop even when its already tearing up their mineral lines, sure, but how many players do you really play against like that?
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
zealots don't have to kill 8 workers to make the drop worth it (and the idea that they probably won't is, I think, wrong DEPENDING on level of course) if they stop mining and kill a few workers they have been worth it.
I think a logical reason for the toss to drop is to increase the lead they already should reasonable have in worker count. zealots take like 3 hits to kill a gatherer, absolute worst case they aren't gathering for a period and have to deal with the drop. best case you get a couple of kills AND delay mining.
seems worth it to me. won't win you the game but it can increase your macro lead and ideally you kill some T mules. 4 zealots can probably handle a queen. this is all IF you can't get drones/scvs. and again worst case those drones aren't mining. or worst case the mules are wasting time running.
Gateway units just don't kill workers very well. You're not likely to kill 400 minerals worth of workers if you send 4 zealots into their mineral lines without Charge, and even then you might not manage it. And if you send stalkers the break-even point is even higher.
Zealots tear mineral lines a new asshole, I'm not sure what games you've been watching.
They're pretty good when they can attack, but before charge workers are faster. So you can still kill some and interrupt mining time, but they still aren't anywhere near as good as stimmed marines.
I wonder, Guek, if when you see they only pull a few units to take out your drop.. you just warp in more.
If you can always keep the army in their main slightly larger than whatever you send, you're essentially carving up part of the army each time (and then if they "over" compensate, you can swarm in the front?)
well it depends on how far into the game you are. for some reason people seem to believe that warpgates mean infinite troops instantly wherever you've got power but unless you're already way into late game, you'll likely only have 6-8 gates you can use to warp.
another method might be to bring the zealots along instead of warping them in so you've got more leverage to warp in if need be. at the same time, if you see that they're overcompensating, you could warp in at the front instead of the back.
zealots don't have to kill 8 workers to make the drop worth it (and the idea that they probably won't is, I think, wrong DEPENDING on level of course) if they stop mining and kill a few workers they have been worth it.
I think a logical reason for the toss to drop is to increase the lead they already should reasonable have in worker count. zealots take like 3 hits to kill a gatherer, absolute worst case they aren't gathering for a period and have to deal with the drop. best case you get a couple of kills AND delay mining.
seems worth it to me. won't win you the game but it can increase your macro lead and ideally you kill some T mules. 4 zealots can probably handle a queen. this is all IF you can't get drones/scvs. and again worst case those drones aren't mining. or worst case the mules are wasting time running.
i dunno, i think drops would be the most effective in pvp than pvz or pvt. if you drop zealots on a zerg player, they'll have a queen to reinforce so you likely wont get too many drones, though killing a queen is definitely nice. with terran, it feels like killing scvs doesn't even make a difference because of mules, though maybe thats a false perception.
i think if you get a couple kills with a WP drop, that's more of a bonus. more likely than not, it's not going to be worth it resource-wise. it can however provide intel, cause a distraction, or screw up the meta-game of your opponent. designing your opening or your overall play on the effectiveness of WP drops is probably pretty foolish, though i'd like to be proven wrong.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Killing SCVs matters. It's not like MULEs make SCVs obsolete or something.
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
"What are your plans going into this finals match-up?"
"Well it's Terran versus Zerg, so I plan to be abusive, just way super abusive... Cliff drops, thor drops, double banshee rush, 2-rax scv all-ins maybe."
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I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
Gateway units just don't kill workers very well. You're not likely to kill 400 minerals worth of workers if you send 4 zealots into their mineral lines without Charge, and even then you might not manage it. And if you send stalkers the break-even point is even higher.
Zealots tear mineral lines a new asshole, I'm not sure what games you've been watching.
Against people who don't notice a drop even when its already tearing up their mineral lines, sure, but how many players do you really play against like that?
isnt there something about the "Warning, your base is under attack" not coming up if it was just repeated? As in, if your army is already engaged and your base gets dropped, you may not hear a message and by the time you look at your base, you've lost all your workers
3clipse wasn't online, Dover hasn't done it in ages, and we were as close to page 100 as we've been in months.
I think it was my time to shine. :P
Now look here you bastards.
I'm gonna take my thread back, but I've been really busy with my Maya modeling class. I've been spending the last two weeks working on this: (spoilered for huge!)
Sadly, it's still not done. I gotta rework and tweak some of the textures, add lighting, and some kind of normal or bump mapping. Not bad for my first go with the software though. Any constructive criticism or feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Look Dover, if you want it, you take it. I only did because we were almost at 100 :P
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Gateway units just don't kill workers very well. You're not likely to kill 400 minerals worth of workers if you send 4 zealots into their mineral lines without Charge, and even then you might not manage it. And if you send stalkers the break-even point is even higher.
Zealots tear mineral lines a new asshole, I'm not sure what games you've been watching.
Against people who don't notice a drop even when its already tearing up their mineral lines, sure, but how many players do you really play against like that?
isnt there something about the "Warning, your base is under attack" not coming up if it was just repeated? As in, if your army is already engaged and your base gets dropped, you may not hear a message and by the time you look at your base, you've lost all your workers
there is a unique warning given for probes being under attack
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
so stalife is basically doing whatever he wants and winning
Posts
really really attractive
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=135697&page=96
Start with iowa's first post on the page.
Read next 4 pages.
Easier because you're already going to have medivacs and marines as part of your standard army. You don't have to go out of your way to drop. No additional structures or research. Just do it whenever you want. You have the tools. Also your transport heals your stimmed units, adding to its efficacy.
More damaging? Well, I guess we'll agree to disagree. Frankly, I've seen warp prism warp in drops be extremely damaging only a handful of times.
Gotcha. I can agree with this. Stimmed Marauders, anyone? SHOULD NOT DO SO MUCH DAMAGE TO BUILDINGS
Gotcha.
The sample size on warp prism drops is woefully small; recently WhiteRa has been using them to amazing effect, I think there's a lot of potential there that hasn't been fully tapped yet.
Maybe the music. Or his commentary. Something.
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Trump
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Whether this is poking at the front if they move their army to take out your drop, or expanding, or buying time for higher tech etc..
lol
Say you're playing terran. You need to build two observers in case of Banshee. Then you'll probably want an immortal in case of marauder push. Then you will want to build colossus and never stop. mmm... colossus
https://medium.com/@alascii
Terran: drops to snipe workers/structures
Protoss: drops to "???" (where ??? could be something I mentioned before)
Zerg: drops to take out armies (banelings), elevator entire armies (a la GSL where we saw a Zerg drop a ton of Hydras in a main) and probably more I don't know
also do you know how long it takes to build a reactor, forever
Zealots tear mineral lines a new asshole, I'm not sure what games you've been watching.
They're pretty good when they can attack, but before charge workers are faster. So you can still kill some and interrupt mining time, but they still aren't anywhere near as good as stimmed marines.
It worked really well, but more skilled players probably wont overcompensate
If you can always keep the army in their main slightly larger than whatever you send, you're essentially carving up part of the army each time (and then if they "over" compensate, you can swarm in the front?)
https://medium.com/@alascii
Against people who don't notice a drop even when its already tearing up their mineral lines, sure, but how many players do you really play against like that?
I think a logical reason for the toss to drop is to increase the lead they already should reasonable have in worker count. zealots take like 3 hits to kill a gatherer, absolute worst case they aren't gathering for a period and have to deal with the drop. best case you get a couple of kills AND delay mining.
seems worth it to me. won't win you the game but it can increase your macro lead and ideally you kill some T mules. 4 zealots can probably handle a queen. this is all IF you can't get drones/scvs. and again worst case those drones aren't mining. or worst case the mules are wasting time running.
few things are
well it depends on how far into the game you are. for some reason people seem to believe that warpgates mean infinite troops instantly wherever you've got power but unless you're already way into late game, you'll likely only have 6-8 gates you can use to warp.
another method might be to bring the zealots along instead of warping them in so you've got more leverage to warp in if need be. at the same time, if you see that they're overcompensating, you could warp in at the front instead of the back.
i dunno, i think drops would be the most effective in pvp than pvz or pvt. if you drop zealots on a zerg player, they'll have a queen to reinforce so you likely wont get too many drones, though killing a queen is definitely nice. with terran, it feels like killing scvs doesn't even make a difference because of mules, though maybe thats a false perception.
i think if you get a couple kills with a WP drop, that's more of a bonus. more likely than not, it's not going to be worth it resource-wise. it can however provide intel, cause a distraction, or screw up the meta-game of your opponent. designing your opening or your overall play on the effectiveness of WP drops is probably pretty foolish, though i'd like to be proven wrong.
yeah yeah i'm sure it does. i've just played games where i'll take out a bunch of SCVs and still get outmacro'd because of mules.
not that my poor macro skills helped any :P
"What are your plans going into this finals match-up?"
"Well it's Terran versus Zerg, so I plan to be abusive, just way super abusive... Cliff drops, thor drops, double banshee rush, 2-rax scv all-ins maybe."
They just started the finals match of their tournament, Stalife vs mkengyn, a relatively unknown Canadian zerg.
Quote came from the pre-game interview.
isnt there something about the "Warning, your base is under attack" not coming up if it was just repeated? As in, if your army is already engaged and your base gets dropped, you may not hear a message and by the time you look at your base, you've lost all your workers
then I engage and realize that somehow my 5 medvacs are still sitting back at the base, booya.
game over wasted 15 mins, talk bout owned
Now look here you bastards.
I'm gonna take my thread back, but I've been really busy with my Maya modeling class. I've been spending the last two weeks working on this: (spoilered for huge!)
Sadly, it's still not done. I gotta rework and tweak some of the textures, add lighting, and some kind of normal or bump mapping. Not bad for my first go with the software though. Any constructive criticism or feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
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there is a unique warning given for probes being under attack
who are these jokers?
PSN: Robo_Wizard1