I definitely have mixed feelings about the ending. Were I the one writing it, the final choice would have been made with Anderson and TIM, and you either destroy the reapers or become one and control them. I was on the edge of my seat for that entire sequence.
I haven't read anyone else talking about the ending but my first complaint is pretty widespread I'm guessing: it was dumb as balls for the Catalyst to be a ghost of that stupid little kid. I'm sure you can make the argument that that's just what it appeared to shepard as because of the impression the kid left on him but no, shut up that's dumb. In part it's awful because child actors generally aren't good. You should avoid using child actors when you can! The kid's delivery of those lines did not do much to improve my opinion of the ending.
I don't think the game's answer to what the Reapers are is satisfying. They're agents of the Catalyst, but we're not given any information at all on what that is. Is it supposed to be God? A machine even older and more advanced than the Reapers? I don't have the slightest clue what it is or why I should listen to it.
I don't like that you can't challenge its core premises: that the order it imposes must be maintained, or that synthetics will always rise up against organics. The latter is especially retarded if you made peace between the Quarians and the Geth, and I sure as shit hope that if you do that your Shepard points out how he/she has already proven the Catalyst wrong. I disagree completely that we "need a new solution." We don't need any solution. I just united all organic life in the galaxy in order to stop you and your stupid cuttlefish friends. Fuck you. After all that I really don't like that there's no option to demand the Catalyst allow the races of the galaxy to self-determinate, and if that ends in self-destruction, then so be it. I guess that's sort of what the Paragon ending is, but it's still being done on the Catalyst's terms. You're still destroying the mass relays and destroying any hope of a galactic community.
To me Mass Effect's never really been about synthetics vs. organics, at least not in the way that the ending presents it. The bad guys happen to be synthetic and happen to hate organics, but that's not really the core of the problem. The problem is that they want to kill all of us and we really don't want that to happen. It would be the exact same conflict if the Reapers were organic cuttlefish. The writing in the end scene seems to suggest that there's some inherent difference between synthetics and organics, like one has one kind of "essence" and the other has a completely different kind of "essence" and they have been until now incompatible essences, and you can pick one or the other or you can mix 'em together to create an entirely new "essence." It's incredibly silly and poorly explained, and while Mass Effect has never been hard sci-fi that went a step beyond the universe's standard of reality and dove straight into pure nonsense.
Did your War Assets do anything at all? If they did, it was so subtle as to be pointless. Unlike ME2 where all throughout the suicide mission you're hearing things like "thank goodness we got those upgrades" or seeing the consequences of not bothering to get certain squadmates loyal. After how much that element got played up it's absurdly disappointing to see that nothing comes out of it. Guess that alleviates any concerns about the Galactic Readiness thing!
If it had to have an ending with a sentient Catalyst that was determining the fate of the galaxy, then here's what I would have liked. The final room is shaped like a giant Conversation Wheel. Have the ending play out like it does now. But, if you've maxed out your war assets and reputation, make it so that if the player happens to turn around, there are two more options, symbolizing the Charm and Intimidate points on the wheel. Both options are different flavors of the same choice: The reapers, along with the Catalyst, are annihilated. No energy is released from the Citadel, no new solution is imposed. The galaxy is free from control and can continue to evolve organically, while still using the Mass Relays to continue the galactic community. Shepard either bleeds out, or if you really wanted a happy ending, he manages to find a shuttle and takes it back down to London and there is a massive celebration.
It's good to know there's a lot of people out there who have basically the exact same opinion I do
It prevents me from having to type up and reiterate my own every time someone asks
This game is one of my favorite games I've ever played, and easily has the best narrative I've ever seen. The series is incredible, even if I have my problems with the ending
Plus you wrote mordin, who is easily one of my favorite characters in any video game ever. And the way he was handled in this game had tears welling up in my eyes.
So, yeah. Don't let our Internet opinions about the ending or whatever fool you. What you guys have created is a monumental accomplishment to be proud of.
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ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
I definitely have mixed feelings about the ending. Were I the one writing it, the final choice would have been made with Anderson and TIM, and you either destroy the reapers or become one and control them. I was on the edge of my seat for that entire sequence.
I haven't read anyone else talking about the ending but my first complaint is pretty widespread I'm guessing: it was dumb as balls for the Catalyst to be a ghost of that stupid little kid. I'm sure you can make the argument that that's just what it appeared to shepard as because of the impression the kid left on him but no, shut up that's dumb. In part it's awful because child actors generally aren't good. You should avoid using child actors when you can! The kid's delivery of those lines did not do much to improve my opinion of the ending.
I don't think the game's answer to what the Reapers are is satisfying. They're agents of the Catalyst, but we're not given any information at all on what that is. Is it supposed to be God? A machine even older and more advanced than the Reapers? I don't have the slightest clue what it is or why I should listen to it.
I don't like that you can't challenge its core premises: that the order it imposes must be maintained, or that synthetics will always rise up against organics. The latter is especially retarded if you made peace between the Quarians and the Geth, and I sure as shit hope that if you do that your Shepard points out how he/she has already proven the Catalyst wrong. I disagree completely that we "need a new solution." We don't need any solution. I just united all organic life in the galaxy in order to stop you and your stupid cuttlefish friends. Fuck you. After all that I really don't like that there's no option to demand the Catalyst allow the races of the galaxy to self-determinate, and if that ends in self-destruction, then so be it. I guess that's sort of what the Paragon ending is, but it's still being done on the Catalyst's terms. You're still destroying the mass relays and destroying any hope of a galactic community.
To me Mass Effect's never really been about synthetics vs. organics, at least not in the way that the ending presents it. The bad guys happen to be synthetic and happen to hate organics, but that's not really the core of the problem. The problem is that they want to kill all of us and we really don't want that to happen. It would be the exact same conflict if the Reapers were organic cuttlefish. The writing in the end scene seems to suggest that there's some inherent difference between synthetics and organics, like one has one kind of "essence" and the other has a completely different kind of "essence" and they have been until now incompatible essences, and you can pick one or the other or you can mix 'em together to create an entirely new "essence." It's incredibly silly and poorly explained, and while Mass Effect has never been hard sci-fi that went a step beyond the universe's standard of reality and dove straight into pure nonsense.
Did your War Assets do anything at all? If they did, it was so subtle as to be pointless. Unlike ME2 where all throughout the suicide mission you're hearing things like "thank goodness we got those upgrades" or seeing the consequences of not bothering to get certain squadmates loyal. After how much that element got played up it's absurdly disappointing to see that nothing comes out of it. Guess that alleviates any concerns about the Galactic Readiness thing!
If it had to have an ending with a sentient Catalyst that was determining the fate of the galaxy, then here's what I would have liked. The final room is shaped like a giant Conversation Wheel. Have the ending play out like it does now. But, if you've maxed out your war assets and reputation, make it so that if the player happens to turn around, there are two more options, symbolizing the Charm and Intimidate points on the wheel. Both options are different flavors of the same choice: The reapers, along with the Catalyst, are annihilated. No energy is released from the Citadel, no new solution is imposed. The galaxy is free from control and can continue to evolve organically, while still using the Mass Relays to continue the galactic community. Shepard either bleeds out, or if you really wanted a happy ending, he manages to find a shuttle and takes it back down to London and there is a massive celebration.
It's good to know there's a lot of people out there who have basically the exact same opinion I do
It prevents me from having to type up and reiterate my own every time someone asks
Here's the problem with that
Releasing the energ is what makes the end of the game happen
So you're basically adding two options...that do what already happens except you added a shitty cliche YAY WE ALL MADE IT ending
Shep got fucking roasted by a Reaper laser thing, he ain't going home no matter what happens, he was bleeding the fuck out inside the citadel
Jesus Hell people
Oh this is to @Speed Racer I just missed the post the first time so I quoted this one and got lazy
This game is one of my favorite games I've ever played, and easily has the best narrative I've ever seen. The series is incredible, even if I have my problems with the ending
Plus you wrote mordin, who is easily one of my favorite characters in any video game ever. And the way he was handled in this game had tears welling up in my eyes.
So, yeah. Don't let our Internet opinions about the ending or whatever fool you. What you guys have created is a monumental accomplishment to be proud of.
An ending is literally the most important part of any narrative. It would be a monumental accomplishment if they done that to the same standard as everything else. The post-mortem should be highly interesting because it is so confusing how such demonstrably talented writers can make such an error in judgement and delivery. Taky is one of only two writers to have made it from ME1 so maybe the rotating writer's room is to blame.
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ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
This game is one of my favorite games I've ever played, and easily has the best narrative I've ever seen. The series is incredible, even if I have my problems with the ending
Plus you wrote mordin, who is easily one of my favorite characters in any video game ever. And the way he was handled in this game had tears welling up in my eyes.
So, yeah. Don't let our Internet opinions about the ending or whatever fool you. What you guys have created is a monumental accomplishment to be proud of.
An ending is literally the most important part of any narrative. It would be a monumental accomplishment if they done that to the same standard as everything else. The post-mortem should be highly interesting because it is so confusing how such demonstrably talented writers can make such an error in judgement and delivery. Taky is one of only two writers to have made it from ME1 so maybe the rotating writer's room is to blame.
Taky said the ending was written by two guys without input from the rest of the team, which wasn't true of the rest of the game
This game is one of my favorite games I've ever played, and easily has the best narrative I've ever seen. The series is incredible, even if I have my problems with the ending
Plus you wrote mordin, who is easily one of my favorite characters in any video game ever. And the way he was handled in this game had tears welling up in my eyes.
So, yeah. Don't let our Internet opinions about the ending or whatever fool you. What you guys have created is a monumental accomplishment to be proud of.
An ending is literally the most important part of any narrative. It would be a monumental accomplishment if they done that to the same standard as everything else. The post-mortem should be highly interesting because it is so confusing how such demonstrably talented writers can make such an error in judgement and delivery. Taky is one of only two writers to have made it from ME1 so maybe the rotating writer's room is to blame.
Taky said the ending was written by two guys without input from the rest of the team, which wasn't true of the rest of the game
So I'm betting on that being a big part of it
It's a damn shame then. Cause the parts Taky wrote were the best. Seriously, the entire Mordin storyline from ME2 through to ME3 is the most robust and well conceived narrative thread in the game. I also hear he pushed to get that extra scene added to Priority: Earth so we owe him a lot if that's the case.
Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
Also, one of my favorite things, if you can call it that, is that this really doesn't shy away from how fucking horrific a galaxy-shattering war against unstoppable inhuman invaders is. Like, there's a focus on it. Its bleak, you're seeing utterly heartrending things happen.
I hate when that kinda stuff gets pretty much glossed over. Like in, say, Halo.
Edit: and SA's been screaming about Bioware ruining everything since like 2009.
gonna try to reconstruct where all my squaddies ended up
spoilers for the whole trilogy, especially ME3
garrus: best buddy forever, lived, likely starves to death on verdant jungle planet
wrex: killed by bailey because of me
ashley: never visited her in the hospital, she went to work with hackett
kaiden: exploded
tali: romanced, likely starves to death on verdant jungle planet
liara: acknowledged as little as possible, unfortunately lives
jacob: never seen in ME3, probably lived
miranda: killed by kai leng
thane: died in hospital with friend and son, prayer was for you, oh god I'm crying
grunt: lived, probably killed a lot of dudes
mordin: killed by me
samara: never saw her in ME3, hopefully didn't live
legion: killed by me
zaeed: left to die by me in his ME2 loyalty mission
kasumi: never saw her in ME3, don't wish her any specific harm
jack: captured by cerberus, brainwashed into phantom, killed by me
EDI: killed by kill all synthetics option, no big loss
vega: is on earth at the end, probably okay?
This game is one of my favorite games I've ever played, and easily has the best narrative I've ever seen. The series is incredible, even if I have my problems with the ending
Plus you wrote mordin, who is easily one of my favorite characters in any video game ever. And the way he was handled in this game had tears welling up in my eyes.
So, yeah. Don't let our Internet opinions about the ending or whatever fool you. What you guys have created is a monumental accomplishment to be proud of.
An ending is literally the most important part of any narrative. It would be a monumental accomplishment if they done that to the same standard as everything else. The post-mortem should be highly interesting because it is so confusing how such demonstrably talented writers can make such an error in judgement and delivery. Taky is one of only two writers to have made it from ME1 so maybe the rotating writer's room is to blame.
Taky said the ending was written by two guys without input from the rest of the team, which wasn't true of the rest of the game
So I'm betting on that being a big part of it
It's a damn shame then. Cause the parts Taky wrote were the best. Seriously, the entire Mordin storyline from ME2 through to ME3 is the most robust and well conceived narrative thread in the game. I also hear he pushed to get that extra scene added to Priority: Earth so we owe him a lot if that's the case.
It's good to know there's a lot of people out there who have basically the exact same opinion I do
It prevents me from having to type up and reiterate my own every time someone asks
Here's the problem with that
Releasing the energ is what makes the end of the game happen
So you're basically adding two options...that do what already happens except you added a shitty cliche YAY WE ALL MADE IT ending
Shep got fucking roasted by a Reaper laser thing, he ain't going home no matter what happens, he was bleeding the fuck out inside the citadel
Jesus Hell people
Oh this is to @Speed Racer I just missed the post the first time so I quoted this one and got lazy
ending spoilers
I don't care that Shepard dies, whatever, that's fine. I completely disagree that it's necessary for a well-done ending, but it also doesn't ruin the ending. The game end could've been great regardless of what happens to him.
I care that no matter what you, the galaxy is still in the clutches of an amoral god-computer. It just lets you decide the method by which it continues to rule everything.
The Catalyst makes a lot of very silly completely unfounded claims during the ending, and it's dumb that you can't call him on any of those. If I had made peace between the Geth and the Quarians I would have been furious if I couldn't say some variation on "fuck you you self-aggrandizing prick, we can absolutely live in harmony." Even my playthrough where I destroyed the geth ruins the Catalyst's argument that its saving organic life from itself.
The Catalyst says "There is a problem that the Reapers are a solution to. You've proven that that solution is unsatisfactory, so pick one of these three ones instead." There needs to be an option both to say "The Reapers are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist," or "I reject all three of these solutions. Go fuck yourself, we'll figure it out ourselves."
There's no reason the ending couldn't have been set up such that there was a way to kill Catalyst, which in turn deactivates all of the reapers, without releasing the energy of the Citadel.
This game is one of my favorite games I've ever played, and easily has the best narrative I've ever seen. The series is incredible, even if I have my problems with the ending
Plus you wrote mordin, who is easily one of my favorite characters in any video game ever. And the way he was handled in this game had tears welling up in my eyes.
So, yeah. Don't let our Internet opinions about the ending or whatever fool you. What you guys have created is a monumental accomplishment to be proud of.
An ending is literally the most important part of any narrative. It would be a monumental accomplishment if they done that to the same standard as everything else. The post-mortem should be highly interesting because it is so confusing how such demonstrably talented writers can make such an error in judgement and delivery. Taky is one of only two writers to have made it from ME1 so maybe the rotating writer's room is to blame.
Evidently
The lead writer wrote the ending by himself and didn't let any of the other writers see it or help revise it.
gonna try to reconstruct where all my squaddies ended up
spoilers for the whole trilogy, especially ME3
garrus: best buddy forever, lived, likely starves to death on verdant jungle planet
wrex: killed by bailey because of me
ashley: never visited her in the hospital, she went to work with hackett
kaiden: exploded
tali: romanced, likely starves to death on verdant jungle planet
liara: acknowledged as little as possible, unfortunately lives
jacob: never seen in ME3, probably lived
miranda: killed by kai leng
thane: died in hospital with friend and son, prayer was for you, oh god I'm crying
grunt: lived, probably killed a lot of dudes
mordin: killed by me
samara: never saw her in ME3, hopefully didn't live
legion: killed by me
zaeed: left to die by me in his ME2 loyalty mission
kasumi: never saw her in ME3, don't wish her any specific harm
jack: captured by cerberus, brainwashed into phantom, killed by me
EDI: killed by kill all synthetics option, no big loss
vega: is on earth at the end, probably okay?
I want to do this (this is different from yours dich so you may not want to look at it) (end stuff obviously)
garrus: manages not to be an asshole for once, stranded on earth
wrex: leader of the newly restored krogan people, stranded on earth
ashley: treated her like shit, broke up with her, sent to hackett
kaiden: exploded
tali: romanced, IS TOTALLY FINE ON TECHNOEDEN
liara: is a friend after the events of shadow broker, was touched by her time capsue, stranded on earth
jacob: still boring, hooked up with boring lady
miranda: totally fine, no idea where she ended up though
thane: died in hospital with friend and son, prayer was for you, oh god I'm crying (yeah this)
grunt: died valiantly in the collector base
mordin: died like a bitch in the collector base
samara: saved one of her daughters, stopped her from blowing her head off
legion: died valiantly in the collector base, replaced by fake legion who turns out to be an asshole, killed him, ruined all geth forever
zaeed: helped me save the volus ambassador, hung out in a shipping container for the rest of the game
kasumi: helped me stop the big stupid jellyfish, is cool
jack: teaching at Grissom, probably stranded on earth now
EDI: is new queen of Technoeden
vega: may or may not be dead? hope you made it to Technoeden, bro
This game is one of my favorite games I've ever played, and easily has the best narrative I've ever seen. The series is incredible, even if I have my problems with the ending
Plus you wrote mordin, who is easily one of my favorite characters in any video game ever. And the way he was handled in this game had tears welling up in my eyes.
So, yeah. Don't let our Internet opinions about the ending or whatever fool you. What you guys have created is a monumental accomplishment to be proud of.
An ending is literally the most important part of any narrative. It would be a monumental accomplishment if they done that to the same standard as everything else. The post-mortem should be highly interesting because it is so confusing how such demonstrably talented writers can make such an error in judgement and delivery. Taky is one of only two writers to have made it from ME1 so maybe the rotating writer's room is to blame.
Evidently
The lead writer wrote the ending by himself and didn't let any of the other writers see it or help revise it.
Posts
It's good to know there's a lot of people out there who have basically the exact same opinion I do
It prevents me from having to type up and reiterate my own every time someone asks
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Ending:
heh
This game is one of my favorite games I've ever played, and easily has the best narrative I've ever seen. The series is incredible, even if I have my problems with the ending
Plus you wrote mordin, who is easily one of my favorite characters in any video game ever. And the way he was handled in this game had tears welling up in my eyes.
So, yeah. Don't let our Internet opinions about the ending or whatever fool you. What you guys have created is a monumental accomplishment to be proud of.
Here's the problem with that
So you're basically adding two options...that do what already happens except you added a shitty cliche YAY WE ALL MADE IT ending
Shep got fucking roasted by a Reaper laser thing, he ain't going home no matter what happens, he was bleeding the fuck out inside the citadel
Jesus Hell people
Oh this is to @Speed Racer I just missed the post the first time so I quoted this one and got lazy
even if I hated the ending, I don't think it would diminish the rest of what is easily my favorite series of games of this console generation
It was an incredible ride, and I hope we get to visit the universe again soon.
bring on Dragon Age 3 or Jade Empire 2 or something completely fuckall different
as long as it has my sweet sweet dialog trees
I don't think anyone is being a dick about it here. There seems to be a lot more reasoned discussion going on than in most topics.
I like you, guy with the Powerpuff Girls avatar/sig combination
You're alright
Oh my god a jillion times this
SA has already started rolling out the BIOWARE RAPED MY FUN/SERIES WITH A TRAAAAAAAAAAAIN bullshit
This place owns y'all own
Bunch of level-headed fuckers all of you
no, not here
just... don't go to the bioware forums
or gamefaqs
or any place on the internet you wouldn't normally go, really
An ending is literally the most important part of any narrative. It would be a monumental accomplishment if they done that to the same standard as everything else. The post-mortem should be highly interesting because it is so confusing how such demonstrably talented writers can make such an error in judgement and delivery. Taky is one of only two writers to have made it from ME1 so maybe the rotating writer's room is to blame.
Taky said the ending was written by two guys without input from the rest of the team, which wasn't true of the rest of the game
So I'm betting on that being a big part of it
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
that sounds like the same old SA
I thought you said something awful was better than it used to be???
got to the end of a mission
bugboy wins multi forever
It's a damn shame then. Cause the parts Taky wrote were the best. Seriously, the entire Mordin storyline from ME2 through to ME3 is the most robust and well conceived narrative thread in the game. I also hear he pushed to get that extra scene added to Priority: Earth so we owe him a lot if that's the case.
Buy a copy of Jade Empire on Steam, Dragon Age II, and find a copy of KOTOR II again, and I'll have, I think, everything but Shattered Steel
BADDEST MOTHERFUCKER OF ALL TIME
I hate when that kinda stuff gets pretty much glossed over. Like in, say, Halo.
Edit: and SA's been screaming about Bioware ruining everything since like 2009.
spoilers for the whole trilogy, especially ME3
wrex: killed by bailey because of me
ashley: never visited her in the hospital, she went to work with hackett
kaiden: exploded
tali: romanced, likely starves to death on verdant jungle planet
liara: acknowledged as little as possible, unfortunately lives
jacob: never seen in ME3, probably lived
miranda: killed by kai leng
thane: died in hospital with friend and son, prayer was for you, oh god I'm crying
grunt: lived, probably killed a lot of dudes
mordin: killed by me
samara: never saw her in ME3, hopefully didn't live
legion: killed by me
zaeed: left to die by me in his ME2 loyalty mission
kasumi: never saw her in ME3, don't wish her any specific harm
jack: captured by cerberus, brainwashed into phantom, killed by me
EDI: killed by kill all synthetics option, no big loss
vega: is on earth at the end, probably okay?
yeah, but
I still need a copy
Tell the two guys I liked
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Nerds posting in game forums are nerds posting in game forums, here, SA, or GameFAQs
Only difference is the age
I am loving the interactions between characters in this
ending spoilers
I care that no matter what you, the galaxy is still in the clutches of an amoral god-computer. It just lets you decide the method by which it continues to rule everything.
The Catalyst makes a lot of very silly completely unfounded claims during the ending, and it's dumb that you can't call him on any of those. If I had made peace between the Geth and the Quarians I would have been furious if I couldn't say some variation on "fuck you you self-aggrandizing prick, we can absolutely live in harmony." Even my playthrough where I destroyed the geth ruins the Catalyst's argument that its saving organic life from itself.
The Catalyst says "There is a problem that the Reapers are a solution to. You've proven that that solution is unsatisfactory, so pick one of these three ones instead." There needs to be an option both to say "The Reapers are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist," or "I reject all three of these solutions. Go fuck yourself, we'll figure it out ourselves."
There's no reason the ending couldn't have been set up such that there was a way to kill Catalyst, which in turn deactivates all of the reapers, without releasing the energy of the Citadel.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Evidently
http://www.audioentropy.com/
I want to do this (this is different from yours dich so you may not want to look at it) (end stuff obviously)
wrex: leader of the newly restored krogan people, stranded on earth
ashley: treated her like shit, broke up with her, sent to hackett
kaiden: exploded
tali: romanced, IS TOTALLY FINE ON TECHNOEDEN
liara: is a friend after the events of shadow broker, was touched by her time capsue, stranded on earth
jacob: still boring, hooked up with boring lady
miranda: totally fine, no idea where she ended up though
thane: died in hospital with friend and son, prayer was for you, oh god I'm crying (yeah this)
grunt: died valiantly in the collector base
mordin: died like a bitch in the collector base
samara: saved one of her daughters, stopped her from blowing her head off
legion: died valiantly in the collector base, replaced by fake legion who turns out to be an asshole, killed him, ruined all geth forever
zaeed: helped me save the volus ambassador, hung out in a shipping container for the rest of the game
kasumi: helped me stop the big stupid jellyfish, is cool
jack: teaching at Grissom, probably stranded on earth now
EDI: is new queen of Technoeden
vega: may or may not be dead? hope you made it to Technoeden, bro
BIG LAUGH
ROLL ON SNARE DRUM
Ah.
That would explain things.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com