Aren't you going to destroy the Cathedral, anyway?
Well, even if you are, screw him. No one tells you when and where and why you cannot summon hot demoness chicks and force them to fight for you. Destroy the Cathedral on your own terms.
Hmm. I tend to vote with my gut here, but now I'm... unsure.
Letting the Mesians finish their Cathedral to allow God into the world is a really bad idea because, as Thor has already shown us, God is a genocidal goose.
On the other hand, the charges Yama levels against you are total bullshit.
So... refuse Yama's offer if you then go destroy the Cathedral anyway.
Accept his offer if it's the only way to stop the Mesian's mad Cathedral-building.
Man, I always loathe both Chaos and Law in the SMT games
I tend towards the Chaos side as the lesser of the two evils in the SMT games.
Though when I actually played an SMT game where I had to make the Law/Neutral/Chaos choice, I went with Law.
Granted, it was Devil Survivor.
Devil Survivor Ending Spoilers!
The Law ending wasn't so bad in Devil Survivor, though it did have some sinister overtones. I think I preferred it to Naoya's True Demon lite and Atsuro's Glorious Nippon ending.
Teriferin on
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
There's an exception to the Messians-are-jerks rule in two SMT games: Imagine and Devil Survivor.
Well, they're still kind of jerks in Imagine, but their girls are fine(literally, by their own naming), so I overlook it.
She's titled the 'Fine Messian', and I couldn't agree more.
They aren't so bad in Devil Survivor, but their God is still a genocidal lunatic. You don't really see a Gaian faction, just a few Chaotic types.
Anyway, as for Yama's choice, as I understand it, either choice will slide us into a faction's direction, but I believe we can still fight our way back to Neutral. Saying No is definitely more Neutral-oriented, as saying Yes is a heavy boost towards Chaos.
Also, you get some boss fights with mucho XP as a result of giving Yama the finger.
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
Nah, we're going Neutral, so, screw them all. Update maybe tomorrow.
I needed a reprieve just because of how long it took me to do Shinagawa.
Three hours. Give or take.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
Part 13: A Perfect Gentleman
After the way he treated us? Screw that.
Then you shall rot in prison and regret your crimes!
Get this miscreant out of my sight!
Not again.
What should we do...
Don't just sit there, help me think of something!
Eh? Someone's here!
Sweet, this thing can order pizza!
Dammit, I asked for pineapple!
Look, I owe you one, so I'll let you out of here this time, but
whatever you do, don't go to Ueno! Listen to me this time!
And with that, he lets us out, and he's gone again.
Lots of new faces here.
The Gaians show no mercy.
Not even to their own.
That's the spirit.
OH COME ON. This guy is either the luckiest human being alive, or the most cursed.
The head of this place, Yama, is judging and imprisoning all sorts of people.
The judgement itself is indeed fair... but it is based on the ethical standards
of Chaos, so if you don't hold the same values, you could be in real trouble.
If you ever need help from me, feel free to come back and see me.
Thanks, I think.
Oh, that guy.
Daaaaaang that's a lot of XP.
Absolutely.
Unfortunately, we're not quite out yet.
A few new obstacles along the way.
And then it's back to the big daddy.
Such insolence will not be tolerated! I will destroy you myself!
Yeah, that's worked so well in the past, look up Thor in the afterlife.
Yama hits hard...
but can't take it.
Little late, aren't you?
So I guess this means Yama wasn't so tough after all...
Hmm, this looks worse for us than I expected!
I'd better get out there and make myself stronger if I'm going to survive.
See ya!
Really starting to hate that guy.
Makes me feel better knowing we're protected, but I sure wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley!
Well, with those idiots behind us, let's do some catching up.
The best way.
Unfortunately, turning Yama down has made us Law-aligned, which means a lot of our nifty Chaos demons can't be used now.
Just got to adjust with the times.
She'll invite you the hades.
Don't get used to her.
Gotta move to the next choir.
Much better.
One thing about the Gaian fellows: they stockpile some good stuff.
Evildoers and Mesians alike are all sentenced to death.
It's funny how often those roles coincide.
It's not as cool as it sounds, but close enough. Gear is getting REALLY expensive to keep up with.
We'll see about that.
I'll just take some of your friends along.
But no one's been up there to confirm it. They say there's an expert in demon fusion imprisoned there.
Sounds familiar, don't it?
If they don't want us there, that sounds like a good place to go.
Pretty unassuming for a temple.
Even more new friends.
That came in handy pretty quick.
Uh, wrong door.
In the name of Bishamonten, I shall fulfill my duty and fight you! En guarde!
Well, okay then.
Beat him on auto in a handful of seconds. And that was the result. Talk about undue rewards.
Guess we'll be seeing more of these guys.
Anyway, we're just passing through.
This is the real real Gaian HQ.
It's got some nasty beasties, I wasn't able to recruit any yet.
No, but it sounds fun!
FFFFFFFFFFFF
Enough luck to change the course of your fate, even.
The only problem is that a demon has recently taken up
residence at the bridge, and has clearly lost its mind.
I WONDER WHY.
Some angel came to the Tokyo Tower
and has been broadcasting footage nonstop,
trying to brainwash more puppets into following their god,
and it was starting to piss me off.
You and me? We're cool.
But there's no way in hell I'd try to get past that dog-monster guarding the entrance!
Sounds like they can keep it.
More of these idiots.
This one wasn't even trying.
Well, a little; the Legions were tricky. Mudoists.
You're lucky we're in Law Mode. (He gave us a Memory Board, which I assume Steven will want at some point.)
This building has an eerie feeling.
Well, that explains it.
But please, call me Louis. All my friends do.
I actually have someone here who's been dying to see you.
She says you know her quite well, actually.
Hey, you wanted to see Toaster? He's right over here...
Even worse.
This didn't turn out right... I was supposed to be the one to be your partner.
But you choose that woman, Paula, instead! Or perhaps, more appropriately,
you were chosen by her... I tried to take you away from her, but I failed... If I can't have you, no one will!
Ah, no... I can't do it. I can't hurt you.
...why did it have to be snakes.
My apologies. Try not to think too badly of her.
And off goes Mr. Cypher.
Yeah, right.
Those Gaians are something else, living right on top of a monster like that without breaking a sweat!
It'll come back to bite them, no doubt.
Another new recruit.
Rumor has it the Gaians are planning an assault to try and take it over.
They'd better get a move on.
Shave your head, for one.
Too many undesirables about, there are traps set all around that will damage anyone who isn't aligned with Chaos.
They have more in common with the Messians than they'd dare admit.
Good luck with that.
Before long, we reach their base of operations, or conversion, one of the two.
So you're Toaster, eh? You've become quite famous, you know.
I've heard plenty of rumors about you. You're creating quite a stir.
Toaster, welcome...
Until you truly believe in our philosophy, I will have to ask you to leave.
Well, screw you too!
So instead of going up, we go down.
Into more darkness.
And another big bad.
Much harder than Bishamonten, not nearly the same rewards.
But we got some Golden Apple thing, so now it's on to Destinyland.
At this point all I can think about is how is sure is nice of all these people who keep capturing Steven to wheel him around in his wheelchair rather than be dicks and just toss him in there on the ground. You know, so he like can't escape or something.
1. There is a certain minigame in Tokyo Destiny Land you can use to influence your alignment towards chaos/law, although it apparently stops working without any indication after a certain amount of uses.
2. The big ending decision is coming up soon. To get neutral you will have to defeat the two major bosses in Shinagawa and Tokyo Destiny Land. If you're too far into chaos/law, you wont be allowed to go against that particular faction, but if you're only a bit into chaos or law, you'll still get the option, so it's not tragic if you can't get all the way back to neutral with the aforementioned minigame. Once both are beaten, your alignement will be set to neutral automatically, and you'll be stuck with it. Just be sure to keep multiple saves in this area of the game, as it is rather easy to screw up.
Actually, the heavenly guardians are everything but law, and it does make a lot of sense, since they are the guardians of Tokyo, and as Thor effectively demonstrated, the law guys don't care much about the well-being of the city.
Anyways, you will actually have to confront them all eventually, although you can already do it now. It might have a negative effect on your alignment, so I guess you should rather avoid fighting the other ones until later where your alignment gets frozen into neutral.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
So if fighting them will bring me towards Chaos, it might bring me back to Neutral? I already took out one of them, I think(Bishamonten).
Neutrality is the canon ending, so we are kind of obligated by fate.
Dude, this is Shin Megami Tensei.
Fuck fate.
Also, cozy duck said the Guardians are anything but Law, which means they're either Neutral or Chaos. If Neutral, your alignment won't shift. If Chaos, it'll get even further into Law.
Also, cozy duck said the Guardians are anything but Law, which means they're either Neutral or Chaos. If Neutral, your alignment won't shift. If Chaos, it'll get even further into Law.
If I understand the system correctly.
Well, I don't know if their fights count towards your alignment, but they are chaos aligned, so as I suggested you're better of waiting a bit.
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
And since this is veering into serious religious drama territory, my personal interpretation is that this is strictly reflective of God in the SMT universe, so to any zealots who are reading this for some reason or other, try not to take offense.
(I also think it's a serious critique of the bad things followers do in God's name, but that's another story.)
Remember, even God has a sense of humor. Just look at the platypus.
Posts
Also, Yama appears in Devil Survivor working for a Lawful type, which is even weirder.
But it might set you so far into chaos that you won't be able to come back.
Anyways, I voted neutral from the start, so that's a NO from me.
If only because I really want to see
Well, even if you are, screw him. No one tells you when and where and why you cannot summon hot demoness chicks and force them to fight for you. Destroy the Cathedral on your own terms.
I vote "No."
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Letting the Mesians finish their Cathedral to allow God into the world is a really bad idea because, as Thor has already shown us, God is a genocidal goose.
On the other hand, the charges Yama levels against you are total bullshit.
So... refuse Yama's offer if you then go destroy the Cathedral anyway.
Accept his offer if it's the only way to stop the Mesian's mad Cathedral-building.
Though when I actually played an SMT game where I had to make the Law/Neutral/Chaos choice, I went with Law.
Granted, it was Devil Survivor.
Devil Survivor Ending Spoilers!
Well, they're still kind of jerks in Imagine, but their girls are fine(literally, by their own naming), so I overlook it.
She's titled the 'Fine Messian', and I couldn't agree more.
They aren't so bad in Devil Survivor, but their God is still a genocidal lunatic. You don't really see a Gaian faction, just a few Chaotic types.
Anyway, as for Yama's choice, as I understand it, either choice will slide us into a faction's direction, but I believe we can still fight our way back to Neutral. Saying No is definitely more Neutral-oriented, as saying Yes is a heavy boost towards Chaos.
Why not?
I needed a reprieve just because of how long it took me to do Shinagawa.
Three hours. Give or take.
After the way he treated us? Screw that.
Then you shall rot in prison and regret your crimes!
Get this miscreant out of my sight!
Not again.
What should we do...
Don't just sit there, help me think of something!
Eh? Someone's here!
Sweet, this thing can order pizza!
Dammit, I asked for pineapple!
Look, I owe you one, so I'll let you out of here this time, but
whatever you do, don't go to Ueno! Listen to me this time!
And with that, he lets us out, and he's gone again.
Lots of new faces here.
The Gaians show no mercy.
Not even to their own.
That's the spirit.
OH COME ON. This guy is either the luckiest human being alive, or the most cursed.
The head of this place, Yama, is judging and imprisoning all sorts of people.
The judgement itself is indeed fair... but it is based on the ethical standards
of Chaos, so if you don't hold the same values, you could be in real trouble.
If you ever need help from me, feel free to come back and see me.
Thanks, I think.
Oh, that guy.
Daaaaaang that's a lot of XP.
Absolutely.
Unfortunately, we're not quite out yet.
A few new obstacles along the way.
And then it's back to the big daddy.
Such insolence will not be tolerated! I will destroy you myself!
Yeah, that's worked so well in the past, look up Thor in the afterlife.
Yama hits hard...
but can't take it.
Little late, aren't you?
So I guess this means Yama wasn't so tough after all...
Hmm, this looks worse for us than I expected!
I'd better get out there and make myself stronger if I'm going to survive.
See ya!
Really starting to hate that guy.
Makes me feel better knowing we're protected, but I sure wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley!
Well, with those idiots behind us, let's do some catching up.
The best way.
Unfortunately, turning Yama down has made us Law-aligned, which means a lot of our nifty Chaos demons can't be used now.
Just got to adjust with the times.
She'll invite you the hades.
Don't get used to her.
Gotta move to the next choir.
Much better.
One thing about the Gaian fellows: they stockpile some good stuff.
Evildoers and Mesians alike are all sentenced to death.
It's funny how often those roles coincide.
It's not as cool as it sounds, but close enough. Gear is getting REALLY expensive to keep up with.
We'll see about that.
I'll just take some of your friends along.
But no one's been up there to confirm it. They say there's an expert in demon fusion imprisoned there.
Sounds familiar, don't it?
If they don't want us there, that sounds like a good place to go.
Pretty unassuming for a temple.
Even more new friends.
That came in handy pretty quick.
Uh, wrong door.
In the name of Bishamonten, I shall fulfill my duty and fight you! En guarde!
Well, okay then.
Beat him on auto in a handful of seconds. And that was the result. Talk about undue rewards.
Guess we'll be seeing more of these guys.
Anyway, we're just passing through.
This is the real real Gaian HQ.
It's got some nasty beasties, I wasn't able to recruit any yet.
No, but it sounds fun!
FFFFFFFFFFFF
Enough luck to change the course of your fate, even.
The only problem is that a demon has recently taken up
residence at the bridge, and has clearly lost its mind.
I WONDER WHY.
Some angel came to the Tokyo Tower
and has been broadcasting footage nonstop,
trying to brainwash more puppets into following their god,
and it was starting to piss me off.
You and me? We're cool.
But there's no way in hell I'd try to get past that dog-monster guarding the entrance!
Sounds like they can keep it.
More of these idiots.
This one wasn't even trying.
Well, a little; the Legions were tricky. Mudoists.
You're lucky we're in Law Mode. (He gave us a Memory Board, which I assume Steven will want at some point.)
This building has an eerie feeling.
Well, that explains it.
But please, call me Louis. All my friends do.
I actually have someone here who's been dying to see you.
She says you know her quite well, actually.
Hey, you wanted to see Toaster? He's right over here...
Even worse.
This didn't turn out right... I was supposed to be the one to be your partner.
But you choose that woman, Paula, instead! Or perhaps, more appropriately,
you were chosen by her... I tried to take you away from her, but I failed...
If I can't have you, no one will!
Ah, no... I can't do it. I can't hurt you.
...why did it have to be snakes.
My apologies. Try not to think too badly of her.
And off goes Mr. Cypher.
Yeah, right.
Those Gaians are something else, living right on top of a monster like that without breaking a sweat!
It'll come back to bite them, no doubt.
Another new recruit.
Rumor has it the Gaians are planning an assault to try and take it over.
They'd better get a move on.
Shave your head, for one.
Too many undesirables about, there are traps set all around that will damage anyone who isn't aligned with Chaos.
They have more in common with the Messians than they'd dare admit.
Good luck with that.
Before long, we reach their base of operations, or conversion, one of the two.
So you're Toaster, eh? You've become quite famous, you know.
I've heard plenty of rumors about you. You're creating quite a stir.
Toaster, welcome...
Until you truly believe in our philosophy, I will have to ask you to leave.
Well, screw you too!
So instead of going up, we go down.
Into more darkness.
And another big bad.
Much harder than Bishamonten, not nearly the same rewards.
But we got some Golden Apple thing, so now it's on to Destinyland.
Whatever that is.
Next time: Family Reunion
Oh, free up a demon slot before you go to DestinyLand
1. There is a certain minigame in Tokyo Destiny Land you can use to influence your alignment towards chaos/law, although it apparently stops working without any indication after a certain amount of uses.
2. The big ending decision is coming up soon. To get neutral you will have to defeat the two major bosses in Shinagawa and Tokyo Destiny Land. If you're too far into chaos/law, you wont be allowed to go against that particular faction, but if you're only a bit into chaos or law, you'll still get the option, so it's not tragic if you can't get all the way back to neutral with the aforementioned minigame. Once both are beaten, your alignement will be set to neutral automatically, and you'll be stuck with it. Just be sure to keep multiple saves in this area of the game, as it is rather easy to screw up.
I doubt there are many Law demons around there to shift the allignment.
Right?
And I guess I'll try the mini-game thing to work towards Neutral, and see if I can kill these bosses afterwards.
Are the Four Heavenly Guardians optional? I've been running into them along the way, and figuring I may as well kill them.
Which, with the name like the Four Heavenly Guardians they probably are, but then again, we had a Chaos judge and Thor the Viking was Lawful, so...
Anyways, you will actually have to confront them all eventually, although you can already do it now. It might have a negative effect on your alignment, so I guess you should rather avoid fighting the other ones until later where your alignment gets frozen into neutral.
Fuck fate.
Also, cozy duck said the Guardians are anything but Law, which means they're either Neutral or Chaos. If Neutral, your alignment won't shift. If Chaos, it'll get even further into Law.
If I understand the system correctly.
Well, I don't know if their fights count towards your alignment, but they are chaos aligned, so as I suggested you're better of waiting a bit.
Does that mean like: Rebirth of the knife princess?
She's a Princess of the Goddess type(Hime - 'Princess', Megami - 'Goddess'). Not sure what Kikuri translates to. Maybe life?
Anyway, working on the update. I'm at Tokyo Destiny Land.
If someone wants to explain to me how the alignment change minigame works, I'd appreciate it.
Bruno is not happy with us and our Law alignment, but screw him.
Okay, I figured it out. Neutrality ho!
Would the thread like context for the decision(it's a doozy), or are we strictly sticking to the guns of Neutrality?
God in SMT1 is a complete and utter jerk.
(I also think it's a serious critique of the bad things followers do in God's name, but that's another story.)
Remember, even God has a sense of humor. Just look at the platypus.