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[WoW] [Chat] There must always be a bitching

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    To be fair, those bosses you mention from Start/Scholo and such were meant to be endgame bosses. The equivalent of like a 10 man raid boss for the game as it is now.

    No, the mechanics of wrath bosses are perfectly tedious on their own. Especially the ones that go invincible and make you wait for large portions of the fight, such as Ichiron and Ionar. Those two are easily the worst bosses in the game. Tedium at its finest. Ymiron is similar, but you can break his stun maybe once or twice during the fight.

    The problem with those fights isn't the mechanics, it's that people outgear the fights. Hell, the real issue is that we outgeared them too quickly.

    Ionar, for instance, was an interesting fight at the start of WOTLK when those Lightning Things could kick the shit out of you if you didn't run like hell. Or when it was a race to kill those Banshee adds with Sylvana.

    shryke on
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    DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    No, the mechanics of wrath bosses are perfectly tedious on their own. Especially the ones that go invincible and make you wait for large portions of the fight, such as Ichiron and Ionar. Those two are easily the worst bosses in the game. Tedium at its finest. Ymiron is similar, but you can break his stun maybe once or twice during the fight.

    The problem with those fights isn't the mechanics, it's that people outgear the fights. Hell, the real issue is that we outgeared them too quickly.

    Ionar, for instance, was an interesting fight at the start of WOTLK when those Lightning Things could kick the shit out of you if you didn't run like hell. Or when it was a race to kill those Banshee adds with Sylvana.

    My thought is that if it gets tedious when you outgear it, its probably bad design to begin with. Its not really tedious when you outgear a boss enough that you just pound his face in and move on, but it is tedious when you sit on your ass waiting.

    DisruptorX2 on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    No, the mechanics of wrath bosses are perfectly tedious on their own. Especially the ones that go invincible and make you wait for large portions of the fight, such as Ichiron and Ionar. Those two are easily the worst bosses in the game. Tedium at its finest. Ymiron is similar, but you can break his stun maybe once or twice during the fight.

    The problem with those fights isn't the mechanics, it's that people outgear the fights. Hell, the real issue is that we outgeared them too quickly.

    Ionar, for instance, was an interesting fight at the start of WOTLK when those Lightning Things could kick the shit out of you if you didn't run like hell. Or when it was a race to kill those Banshee adds with Sylvana.

    My thought is that if it gets tedious when you outgear it, its probably bad design to begin with. Its not really tedious when you outgear a boss enough that you just pound his face in and move on, but it is tedious when you sit on your ass waiting.

    No, not really.

    The easiest/most boring thing to outgear are survival phases.

    So unless you wanna cut them completely, that's the way it works out.

    shryke on
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    INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Poketpixie wrote: »
    So...Ymiron stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a boat vs Smite who stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a chest.

    Smite's new weapons don't change the way the fight operates. (Most groups at this point DPS Ymiron fast enough that his new weapons don't, either, but that wasn't always the case.)

    I mean, if you honestly think the design that goes into Wrath fights are the same as vanilla fights, more power to you, I guess.

    INeedNoSalt on
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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    There were always large numbers people in Classic who were gear-appropriate for the endgame 5-mans and UBRS, because the limits of epics-for-nonraiders were limited to honor farmed PvP gear and a few assorted reputation items like Cenarion Circle or Argent Dawn.

    I remember back when I was soloing and striving to get this mace. Because in the old days, epics were still epic.

    SabreMau on
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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=2243 used to go for like 2000 gold. In classic. On bleeding hollow there was a warrior with one, oh the hilarity.

    Jars on
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    EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    That mace worked for more than just spells.

    Like say, capping a graveyard in AV. :twisted:

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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    ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=2243 used to go for like 2000 gold. In classic. On bleeding hollow there was a warrior with one, oh the hilarity.

    And that was before they changed the proc. It used to be "Chance on hit: Your next spell becomes instant cast".

    Arkan on
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    PoketpixiePoketpixie Siege Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Poketpixie wrote: »
    So...Ymiron stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a boat vs Smite who stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a chest.

    Smite's new weapons don't change the way the fight operates. (Most groups at this point DPS Ymiron fast enough that his new weapons don't, either, but that wasn't always the case.)

    I mean, if you honestly think the design that goes into Wrath fights are the same as vanilla fights, more power to you, I guess.

    I was trolling a bit. Seriously though, in all the times I've run Pinnacle from release of Wrath to now I've never been in a group that treated Ymiron any differently than "not stunned? dps". There was never a point where we backed off because of Bane. I don't think anyone really noticed. I've never seen any adds pop up either.

    Poketpixie on
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    OatsOats Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Jars wrote: »
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=2243 used to go for like 2000 gold. In classic. On bleeding hollow there was a warrior with one, oh the hilarity.

    The proc used to make any spell instant cast.

    There was a paladin on my server who used to smack people until it proc'd at which point he'd instantly cap a Graveyard in AV.

    Oats on
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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I remember in team vs team avs we would disarm the paladins with it. You needed one with how hard it was to cap a gy.

    Jars on
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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Didn't you have entire raid guilds forming 40-mans and joining AV as a single group back in those days, too?

    SabreMau on
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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Yes. We did guild avs all summer long when av was first released.

    Jars on
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    SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Poketpixie wrote: »
    Poketpixie wrote: »
    So...Ymiron stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a boat vs Smite who stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a chest.

    Smite's new weapons don't change the way the fight operates. (Most groups at this point DPS Ymiron fast enough that his new weapons don't, either, but that wasn't always the case.)

    I mean, if you honestly think the design that goes into Wrath fights are the same as vanilla fights, more power to you, I guess.

    I was trolling a bit. Seriously though, in all the times I've run Pinnacle from release of Wrath to now I've never been in a group that treated Ymiron any differently than "not stunned? dps". There was never a point where we backed off because of Bane. I don't think anyone really noticed. I've never seen any adds pop up either.

    If you DPS hard enough the Bane never happens.

    Seg on
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    tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    The biggest thing that makes so many fights seem dull or easy now is seriously outgearing everything. Most of the encounters were balance around when you were running heroics in blues and a few ilvl200 epics. Back when people got excited about breaking 3000dps on Patchwerk. When clearing Culling of Stratholme in time to fight the extra boss was a real close call.

    Nowadays, it's hard to do a heroic without people covered in epics ilvl226 or higher. It's like the difference between PvPing in crafted gear versus full arena epics.

    tehmarken on
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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Not to rehash a couple pages ago, but I'm guessing with the massive changes to world in Cataclysm, both Deadmines and SFK are going to get face lifts that are more representative of the on-going story line.

    If I'm wrong, I'll delete* my character.

    *copy my character to the test server and :winky:

    ironzerg on
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    Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Regardless of silly disagreements, I think it's pretty obvious that Blizzard has a learned a lot and changed the way they build boss encounters (IMO, for the better) even on the "easy" instances. I look forward to seeing what they do with the old stuff being remade.

    Vincent Grayson on
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    HallowedFaithHallowedFaith Call me Cloud. Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    This new patch is fucking wild!

    HallowedFaith on
    I'm making video games. DesignBy.Cloud
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    CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    This new patch is fucking wild!

    No pally changes, no caring :(

    And no significant priest changes that I can remember off the top of my head :(
    <3 the Frost Lotus thing, though. Holy shit, that's nice.

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
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    NoisymunkNoisymunk Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Cokebotle wrote: »
    This new patch is fucking wild!

    No pally changes, no caring :(

    Yeah, I'm bummed you guys aren't getting nerfed, too. :winky:

    Noisymunk on
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    CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Noisymunk wrote: »
    Cokebotle wrote: »
    This new patch is fucking wild!

    No pally changes, no caring :(

    Yeah, I'm bummed you guys aren't getting nerfed, too. :winky:

    Hey, pally tanks got nerfed the other week. I could always deal with a ret buff. I'm still not breaking 8k dps with my 4 piece and a Bryntoll
    Although, it probably has more to do with my trinkets being DMC Greatness and the goddamn heroic badge crit one >.<

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
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    tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I'm sure next patch we'll lose another chunk of health.

    tehmarken on
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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited February 2010
    Arkan wrote: »
    NEWSFLASH

    Warcraft's storyline has never been that amazing. It's the same couple plot devices blizzard loves over and over - corruption of heroes, etc - it never is coherent, and half of the plot points require one or more of the characters involved to be functionally retarded for it to make any sense. Warcraft's plot is incredibly shallow and serves as little more to string along the gameplay from one point to another.

    And you know what? I'm fine with that because all the games are fun as hell. Blizzard can make games but they sure as hell can't write a story beyond "blargh I must protect people oh no now I'm evil gonna kill you all raarrgh"
    This is lazy reasoning. There's a large range of quality to plots and for different reasons. Warcraft has most definitely degraded in quality through poorly done retcons and a relegating of everything to adaptations.

    No Warcraft is not amazing for the story, but it was entertaining. I still enjoy the cinematics from Warcraft 3 and the characters were fun and do add to the experience. This experience is damaged whenever they randomly add new details, forget old ones (or not-so-old, Mr. Lehner) or stuff the interesting shit into books and comics. Remember how you said the story wasn't amazing? Well, I certainly don't want to plop 15 bucks on said story without the gameplay. So uh, can we have not shove the story of Varian's kidnapping/recovery into a godawful comic?

    I mean, what if retaking Gnomeregan/Echo Isles got similar treatment? We'd be missing out again. And part of making it a MMORPG is experiencing that shit first-hand. It defeats the purpose, from an immersion perspective.

    Sterica on
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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I am curious about how you buy the PVP mounts now? some of my tokens keep disappering and they claim to be looking into it


    As for the rumours I hope they are not of the comic because they flushed that whole story and started over

    Brainleech on
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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    O boy the wintergrasp changes are not so great

    How hard is it to create npcs that help the side that needs help?

    Brainleech on
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    shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    The wintergrasp changes are meaningless because the biggest problem with WG and unbalanced teams is that the group with more than double the players absolutely melts the vehicles which means it's impossible for the attacking team to win. I thought the best suggestion I heard around here was let the broken walls stay down after a certain number of losses. That would mean you'd eventually win after 4 or 5 losses.

    shadowane on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    No see the point is we want to keep the horde down. We like being able to do voa any time we want.

    UncleSporky on
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    jackaljackal Fuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse. Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    No see the point is we want to keep the horde down. We like being able to do voa any time we want.

    Every time I come in Wintergrasp, you in wintergrasp. In the goddamn VoA. Eating up all the stonekeeper shards... all the honor points... all the PvP gear... all the commendations. I want some shards... I like PvP gear.

    jackal on
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    wusoldjrwusoldjr Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    jackal wrote: »
    No see the point is we want to keep the horde down. We like being able to do voa any time we want.

    Every time I come in Wintergrasp, you in wintergrasp. In the goddamn VoA. Eating up all the stonekeeper shards... all the honor points... all the PvP gear... all the commendations. I want some shards... I like PvP gear.

    :lol:<3

    wusoldjr on
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    The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Could they possibly have made that WG change more confusing?

    The Muffin Man on
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    GonmunGonmun He keeps kickin' me in the dickRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Someone was saying they had buffed the battered hilt drop rates but I haven't been able to check the recent changes yet. Any truth behind that claim?

    Gonmun on
    desc wrote: »
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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    The thing is what they posted about wg changes is already for the most part, already in.

    The only change is that it takes one more loss before the faction really in the hole starts losing their advantages.

    In other words, it does absolutely jack to resolve population imbalance issues.

    Nobody on
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    EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Gonmun wrote: »
    Someone was saying they had buffed the battered hilt drop rates but I haven't been able to check the recent changes yet. Any truth behind that claim?

    On PTR?

    They already increased it via hotfix on live servers, but that was...like a month and a half ago.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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    GonmunGonmun He keeps kickin' me in the dickRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    End wrote: »
    Gonmun wrote: »
    Someone was saying they had buffed the battered hilt drop rates but I haven't been able to check the recent changes yet. Any truth behind that claim?

    On PTR?

    They already increased it via hotfix on live servers, but that was...like a month and a half ago.

    I had thought it was back then but one of my guildies was adament that they had done it again with the latest hotfix which was why I was asking. Damn silly goose won a battered hilt roll against me and the guild leader and was right smug about it after. That and ordering the group around which just pissed everyone off since he was doing the worst of anyone in our FoS run.

    Gonmun on
    desc wrote: »
    ~ * swole patrol flying roundhouse kick top performer recognition: April 2014 * ~
    If you have a sec, check out my podcast: War and Beast Twitter Facebook
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    EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    There hasn't been any recent announcement that I know of.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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    The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I thought they NERFED it a month and a half ago?

    The Muffin Man on
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    ImperiusVImperiusV Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Can RankWatch ever be wrong? I cast Greater Blessing of Might yesterday, and I got a tell that I was using rank 3 out of a max of 5. I moused over the spell just to be sure, and it was 5, the max. Might it trigger off giving a buff to a low-level who can't get buffs that good?

    ImperiusV on
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    They increased the drop rate, but removed it from the loot table of non-elites like the skeleton minions in PoS.

    Tofystedeth on
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    TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    ImperiusV wrote: »
    Can RankWatch ever be wrong? I cast Greater Blessing of Might yesterday, and I got a tell that I was using rank 3 out of a max of 5. I moused over the spell just to be sure, and it was 5, the max. Might it trigger off giving a buff to a low-level who can't get buffs that good?

    Most likely!

    TheCrumblyCracker on
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Holy fuck, the bads have really hit the LFD tool.

    I went from 1 person on my ignore list to over 10 this weekend.

    Everything from:

    "Pull as much shit as you can and train it back to the group and drop"
    to
    "Stealing nodes of shit right after the person asks if there's anyone else who needs it too"
    to
    "Tanking while not being a tank" or "Not wanting to wait 2 seconds because the tank had to equip an item and start pulling shit."
    to
    "Just being complete unable to function as a human being, this includes not pooping yourself while breathing."

    The person who stole the node was asked not to do it, and then said, "Sure, if I remember." So I vote kicked him before the last boss. There are plenty more huntards in the see, thanks.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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