So the semi-explicit nature of it bothered you? Because I didn't think it was that bad and I thought it brought that part of the story line to a pretty satisfying (honestly no pun intended) close. They'd been so frustrated by their whole situation throughout the book, I thought that was a good way to end it.
I don't know. It just didn't click for me. Having characters get laid once in a while is completely different from going into relative detail about an encounter. Just felt unnecessary, and for me didn't add at all to their characters.
And yeah, romance sells (a shitload) but that doesn't mean I have to to like it.
Im going to be around a decade older at least by the time I see the end of this series. Its going to be a painful wait. Read book in 2 days, wait 1 year. Rinse repeat.
Oh man I know just how you feel but lemme tell you how much worse it could be: so much worse.
Fuck. Yes. I love Dresden Files. I have some questions I will spoil if anyone could answer them for me. I am re-reading the series right now to finish Changes and I am on Death Masks (in my opinion, one of the stronger books).
So, if one of these questions is answered in Changes, feel free to just say that and not spoil it for me.
1. Who is Cowl? My money is on DuMorne.
2. What is the significance of the dagger that Lea received from Bianca in book three, Grave Peril.
3. When is Murphy going to finally take up the third Sword of the Cross?
4. What is going on with Mab?
4a. Do we find out what was the significance of Lea being Frozen at Arctis Tor? This really bugged me, because I think Dresden would have tried to save Lea.
5. Do we find out what is the significance of the battle remains at Arctis Tor? It's suggested that it is something to do with Outlanders coming to Earth and fighting the Winter court or something?
I can answer some.
3. Changes. Kind of.
4a. Yes. also in Changes.
5. Yes. I forget when/which book, though. It should fairly obvious when it shows up.
The whole dagger being a relic or an 'anthaem' I think he called it is really interesting to me. It supposedly moved Lea up the power ladder to be a straight up competitor with Mab. This is even more curious, because Lea is more powerful than Maeve who should normally be the third most powerful person in Winter (behind the Queen Mother and the Queen). By Lea taking it up, Mab took over Harry's debt to balance things out, but apparently that wasn't even enough.
As far as the sexuality in the Dresden Files is concerned, other than the already mentioned BDSM episode with his ex-girlfriend-come-vampire, there really isn't much. There are quite a few times when he talks about getting a boner and then douses himself with cold water to deal with it and he notices hot ladies (regardless if they happen to also be monsters trying to bite his face off). If anything, I think it makes Harry a helluva lot more believable rather than moving into a similar trap of Richard in the Sword of Truth where he is so pious etc.
I really like the idea that Dresden, at the end of the day, isn't really that good of a guy. He's regularly gone out of his way to smash up a bad guy after they have been beaten or to flat out torture an enemy. He even explains to one spirit that the reason he chooses this life of protecting people is that he knows if he started to slip that it would be really bad for everyone.
Again, I haven't read Changes, but I also don't think the power creep is too bad from book to book. There is a moment with Bob where Dresden realizes that in the last three or four years he's fought several dark wizards, vampires, and that the fairy courts are out of balance and he begins to think that someone is orchestrating all of them. There is usually, what, about six months in between books. That's nearly six or so years from Storm Front through Changes that he has been refining his more dangerous abilities from just finding lost stuff and doing the random exorcism.
I really like the idea that Dresden, at the end of the day, isn't really that good of a guy. He's regularly gone out of his way to smash up a bad guy after they have been beaten or to flat out torture an enemy. He even explains to one spirit that the reason he chooses this life of protecting people is that he knows if he started to slip that it would be really bad for everyone.
Uh, even with all of his flaws, he's still a pretty great guy all things considered.
I mean, he's nowhere near perfect. But considering all that he has going against him, he's turned out pretty well. Most folks would have quit the business and deliberately disappeared long before things ever got as hectic as most of his stories get, yet he keeps bouncing back and refusing to step down because he hates to think of what would happen if he wasn't acting as magical meatshield for everyone else.
Call me crazy, but that seems like a pretty stand-out dude.
Sure, he has his dark side, but sometimes a guy's gotta vent if you don't want things to get the better of you. And when both the red council, white council, and major forces of the nevernever are breathing down a guy's neck, you gotta wonder how a guy can really get through it without completely falling off the deep end. Hell, I'm only partially through Summer Knight and it's pretty clear that recent events nearly destroyed him.
Now, if we're talking short-sightedness, I wouldn't argue. Harry's got a temper, and a big mouth. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
I really like the idea that Dresden, at the end of the day, isn't really that good of a guy. He's regularly gone out of his way to smash up a bad guy after they have been beaten or to flat out torture an enemy. He even explains to one spirit that the reason he chooses this life of protecting people is that he knows if he started to slip that it would be really bad for everyone.
Uh, even with all of his flaws, he's still a pretty great guy all things considered.
I mean, he's nowhere near perfect. But considering all that he has going against him, he's turned out pretty well. Most folks would have quit the business and deliberately disappeared long before things ever got as hectic as most of his stories get, yet he keeps bouncing back and refusing to step down because he hates to think of what would happen if he wasn't acting as magical meatshield for everyone else.
Call me crazy, but that seems like a pretty stand-out dude.
Sure, he has his dark side, but sometimes a guy's gotta vent if you don't want things to get the better of you. And when both the red council, white council, and major forces of the nevernever are breathing down a guy's neck, you gotta wonder how a guy can really get through it without completely falling off the deep end. Hell, I'm only partially through Summer Knight and it's pretty clear that recent events nearly destroyed him.
Now, if we're talking short-sightedness, I wouldn't argue. Harry's got a temper, and a big mouth. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
I'm not sure how deep you are in the series, but I can think of three instances when Harry completely goes off of the reservation.
Book 3, Grave Peril. Harry burns down an entire building with the knowledge that there are innocent people being held captive within by the Red Court. The description of Harry just giving in to his rage is pretty graphic.
Book 5, Death Masks. Harry beats a defenseless Denarian near death with a baseball bat. After shattering all of the guys' bones he then tosses the guy a quarter and tells him to use the pay phone to call someone who cares. Of course, knowing all this time, that the pay phone requires more than a quarter.
Book 8, Proven Guilty. Harry unleashes fire at one of the fear-eating monsters in a crowded movie feather and slams the monster all around while enjoying every second of it. Again, the description of how much Harry enjoys it is what is so disturbing. He does this without any regard to try and protect the innocent crowd.
Harry is certainly a strong and determined individual, but is he really a good guy? I don't think so, he's in a gray area at best and he sure as hell isn't all that selfless most of the time.
EDIT: One of the things I am noticing as I move through the series for the third time in preparation of reading Changes is how talented Butcher is at foreshadowing. Even the most minor stuff fit so much better after some later revelations; in particular the conversations and relationship with Thomas and Ebeneezar. Also, the shadowy figures at Bianca's ascension party, etc. There are a ton of little things that come up to be huge later.
I really like the idea that Dresden, at the end of the day, isn't really that good of a guy. He's regularly gone out of his way to smash up a bad guy after they have been beaten or to flat out torture an enemy. He even explains to one spirit that the reason he chooses this life of protecting people is that he knows if he started to slip that it would be really bad for everyone.
Uh, even with all of his flaws, he's still a pretty great guy all things considered.
I mean, he's nowhere near perfect. But considering all that he has going against him, he's turned out pretty well. Most folks would have quit the business and deliberately disappeared long before things ever got as hectic as most of his stories get, yet he keeps bouncing back and refusing to step down because he hates to think of what would happen if he wasn't acting as magical meatshield for everyone else.
Call me crazy, but that seems like a pretty stand-out dude.
Sure, he has his dark side, but sometimes a guy's gotta vent if you don't want things to get the better of you. And when both the red council, white council, and major forces of the nevernever are breathing down a guy's neck, you gotta wonder how a guy can really get through it without completely falling off the deep end. Hell, I'm only partially through Summer Knight and it's pretty clear that recent events nearly destroyed him.
Now, if we're talking short-sightedness, I wouldn't argue. Harry's got a temper, and a big mouth. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
I'm not sure how deep you are in the series, but I can think of three instances when Harry completely goes off of the reservation.
Book 3, Grave Peril. Harry burns down an entire building with the knowledge that there are innocent people being held captive within by the Red Court. The description of Harry just giving in to his rage is pretty graphic.
Book 5, Death Masks. Harry beats a defenseless Denarian near death with a baseball bat. After shattering all of the guys' bones he then tosses the guy a quarter and tells him to use the pay phone to call someone who cares. Of course, knowing all this time, that the pay phone requires more than a quarter.
Book 8, Proven Guilty. Harry unleashes fire at one of the fear-eating monsters in a crowded movie feather and slams the monster all around while enjoying every second of it. Again, the description of how much Harry enjoys it is what is so disturbing. He does this without any regard to try and protect the innocent crowd.
Harry is certainly a strong and determined individual, but is he really a good guy? I don't think so, he's in a gray area at best and he sure as hell isn't all that selfless most of the time.
EDIT: One of the things I am noticing as I move through the series for the third time in preparation of reading Changes is how talented Butcher is at foreshadowing. Even the most minor stuff fit so much better after some later revelations; in particular the conversations and relationship with Thomas and Ebeneezar. Also, the shadowy figures at Bianca's ascension party, etc. There are a ton of little things that come up to be huge later.
The big thing about Harry's goodside/badside is if you are his friend. If you are his friend he will do nearly anything to protect or save you.
Also, Harry was a lot more violent with his powers while still under the influence of Lash and the Hellfire.
There is a difference between a good guy and a saint.
And yeah, he has gone too far at times. What happened in Grave Peril kinda has to be taken with a grain of salt. Bianca couldn't have been pushing more of his buttons, let's be honest here.
I mean, he was under insane levels of pressure, and at that point he was sure the fight was lost. He'd been half eaten by a demon, was certain that his friends and himself were about to die, and the love of his life (Whom he was still afraid to completely open up to, after his first love betrayed him in the worst way) was last seen being eaten alive.
The only reason he didn't die then and there was because seeing Susan murdered made him mad enough to draw the power to turn the tide.
What's more, he had no way to save those people, given the situation. Susan's appearance pretty much fucked up his entire plan, and he couldn't even save her. That in itself is enough to break a man, sometimes.
Good guy, nothing. He had no way of getting through that alive without doing what he did. At least, not after Susan showed up.
The scene where he beats Sanduriel to a pulp with the bat is so over the top. What bugs me more is Sanya and Michael just laughing about it on the way home, that seemed like a fine line considering just a few pages before Michael is going on and on about how the Knights are there to save the Denarians and the Knights cannot bloody their hands as Sanduriel gave up his coin freely. Just a little hypocritical - which sucks cause I love me some Michael.
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I am in the business of saving lives.
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Caulk Bite 6One of the multitude of Dans infesting this placeRegistered Userregular
The scene where he beats Sanduriel to a pulp with the bat is so over the top. What bugs me more is Sanya and Michael just laughing about it on the way home, that seemed like a fine line considering just a few pages before Michael is going on and on about how the Knights are there to save the Denarians and the Knights cannot bloody their hands as Sanduriel gave up his coin freely. Just a little hypocritical - which sucks cause I love me some Michael.
yeah, but you gotta remember: they ain't Lawful stupid. They are human and in a good position to know that the guy deserved what he got. they could not administer the beating themselves, but they also weren't going to stand by if they thought Harry was going to outright kill the guy.
Guys let's spoiler that, c'mon. That was my number 1 most "holy shit" moment in the entire series, and I had no knowledge of it previously. I know it's not entirely a "omg the entire cast dies from rabies" type spoiler, but let's have some respect for the dudes who'll get a serious treat from going in totally blind.
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MorgensternICH BIN DER PESTVOGELDU KAMPFAFFE!Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
I still can't get over the OP picture of Butcher.
Morgenstern on
“Every time we walk along a beach some ancient urge disturbs us so that we find ourselves shedding shoes and garments or scavenging among seaweed and whitened timbers like the homesick refugees of a long war.” - Loren Eiseley
so i stumbled across this thread and decided to see whether or not wiz detective is best job. it is def cool, i skipped storm front based off of one of ur opinions of it and am almost done with fool moon
so sup
eatmosushi on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Spun uncontrollably skyward... Driven brutally into the ground
Storm Front is best when you read it after reading a few of the other books first, but it shouldn't be avoided entirely.
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Caulk Bite 6One of the multitude of Dans infesting this placeRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
I only skipped directly to Dead Beat as my first, because that was what I had available to me at the time. Storm Front is easily the worst of the lot, but it's still quite good; it also sets the ground work for a few plot points in later books.
well the only thing referenced in fool moon that i dont immediately know about is the white council, but it intrigues me that i'm piecing together for myself what the white council is.... adding some mystery to my mystery book so i can have mystery while i have mystery.
(cuz i heard i liked mystery)
edit: oh sorry i guess i didnt include in the first post that i also very much have enjoyed what i've been reading. he does a great job setting the scene and describing the characters while still leaving room to the imagination
(thats why i hate when art depicts characters on book covers)
eatmosushi on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Spun uncontrollably skyward... Driven brutally into the ground
well the only thing referenced in fool moon that i dont immediately know about is the white council, but it intrigues me that i'm piecing together for myself what the white council is.... adding some mystery to my mystery book so i can have mystery while i have mystery.
(cuz i heard i liked mystery)
edit: oh sorry i guess i didnt include in the first post that i also very much have enjoyed what i've been reading. he does a great job setting the scene and describing the characters while still leaving room to the imagination
(thats why i hate when art depicts characters on book covers)
This isn't a Spoiler.
The White Council is the organization that Harry belongs too. It is more or less the Leauge of Official Wizadry in the Dresden-verse. The White Council's members are the most powerful wizards of the world, and some possibly outside the world (as we know it).
However, they (as a whole) are kind of dickish, conservative, old and don't like doing anything that requires effort outside of the majority of there members secluding themselves to their own devices.
The head of the White High Council is The Merlin, who is also kind of a dick. Even Michael Carpenter would think so.
The Merlin is also the bossest fucking wizard. He didn't get there by collecting bottle caps. I like having the Senior Council around if only to remind Harry that he ain't shit but hoes and tricks. It's also kind of funny to me that Harry seems to be falling more in line with the Council's view of things.
The Merlin is also the bossest fucking wizard. He didn't get there by collecting bottle caps. I like having the Senior Council around if only to remind Harry that he ain't shit but hoes and tricks. It's also kind of funny to me that Harry seems to be falling more in line with the Council's view of things.
It's because he's getting old and has a lot more experience dealing with major league problems. It was easy for him to sit aside, the young punk, figuring the Council are a bunch of dimwits for doing the things they do. Now, he realizes that maybe the reason they've done things in such a way for centuries is because it's the best / safest / most effective way of doing so.
The scene where he beats Sanduriel to a pulp with the bat is so over the top. What bugs me more is Sanya and Michael just laughing about it on the way home, that seemed like a fine line considering just a few pages before Michael is going on and on about how the Knights are there to save the Denarians and the Knights cannot bloody their hands as Sanduriel gave up his coin freely. Just a little hypocritical - which sucks cause I love me some Michael.
Well, Michael is under some heavy restrictions. He is basically a paladin, bound by certain limitations and moral guidelines that require he hold back under certain stipulations, even if a known villain is only following certain stipulations out of technicality.
These restrictions do not require that he stop other people from crossing some of those boundaries, however, which is why I think he didn't stop Harry from being the living shit out of the guy.
Besides, the dude Harry beat down was literally a monster. They all knew that, the first chance he got, he'd more than likely be working at Nicodemus' side again, and would kill any of them without a moment's hesitation. So, even for Michael, there was no genuine sympathy.
I think that was a case where Harry did what a lot of people wish they had the nerve to do, but probably wouldn't ever willingly do if they really had the chance.
Posts
And yeah, romance sells (a shitload) but that doesn't mean I have to to like it.
Oh man I know just how you feel but lemme tell you how much worse it could be: so much worse.
As far as the sexuality in the Dresden Files is concerned, other than the already mentioned BDSM episode with his ex-girlfriend-come-vampire, there really isn't much. There are quite a few times when he talks about getting a boner and then douses himself with cold water to deal with it and he notices hot ladies (regardless if they happen to also be monsters trying to bite his face off). If anything, I think it makes Harry a helluva lot more believable rather than moving into a similar trap of Richard in the Sword of Truth where he is so pious etc.
I really like the idea that Dresden, at the end of the day, isn't really that good of a guy. He's regularly gone out of his way to smash up a bad guy after they have been beaten or to flat out torture an enemy. He even explains to one spirit that the reason he chooses this life of protecting people is that he knows if he started to slip that it would be really bad for everyone.
Again, I haven't read Changes, but I also don't think the power creep is too bad from book to book. There is a moment with Bob where Dresden realizes that in the last three or four years he's fought several dark wizards, vampires, and that the fairy courts are out of balance and he begins to think that someone is orchestrating all of them. There is usually, what, about six months in between books. That's nearly six or so years from Storm Front through Changes that he has been refining his more dangerous abilities from just finding lost stuff and doing the random exorcism.
I fucking love me some Dresden Files.
Uh, even with all of his flaws, he's still a pretty great guy all things considered.
I mean, he's nowhere near perfect. But considering all that he has going against him, he's turned out pretty well. Most folks would have quit the business and deliberately disappeared long before things ever got as hectic as most of his stories get, yet he keeps bouncing back and refusing to step down because he hates to think of what would happen if he wasn't acting as magical meatshield for everyone else.
Call me crazy, but that seems like a pretty stand-out dude.
Sure, he has his dark side, but sometimes a guy's gotta vent if you don't want things to get the better of you. And when both the red council, white council, and major forces of the nevernever are breathing down a guy's neck, you gotta wonder how a guy can really get through it without completely falling off the deep end. Hell, I'm only partially through Summer Knight and it's pretty clear that recent events nearly destroyed him.
Now, if we're talking short-sightedness, I wouldn't argue. Harry's got a temper, and a big mouth. And the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
you should really keep reading the books
Harry is hardly a saint, as well meaning as he is
Steam
I'm not sure how deep you are in the series, but I can think of three instances when Harry completely goes off of the reservation.
Book 5, Death Masks. Harry beats a defenseless Denarian near death with a baseball bat. After shattering all of the guys' bones he then tosses the guy a quarter and tells him to use the pay phone to call someone who cares. Of course, knowing all this time, that the pay phone requires more than a quarter.
Book 8, Proven Guilty. Harry unleashes fire at one of the fear-eating monsters in a crowded movie feather and slams the monster all around while enjoying every second of it. Again, the description of how much Harry enjoys it is what is so disturbing. He does this without any regard to try and protect the innocent crowd.
Harry is certainly a strong and determined individual, but is he really a good guy? I don't think so, he's in a gray area at best and he sure as hell isn't all that selfless most of the time.
EDIT: One of the things I am noticing as I move through the series for the third time in preparation of reading Changes is how talented Butcher is at foreshadowing. Even the most minor stuff fit so much better after some later revelations; in particular the conversations and relationship with Thomas and Ebeneezar. Also, the shadowy figures at Bianca's ascension party, etc. There are a ton of little things that come up to be huge later.
The big thing about Harry's goodside/badside is if you are his friend. If you are his friend he will do nearly anything to protect or save you.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
I mean, he was under insane levels of pressure, and at that point he was sure the fight was lost. He'd been half eaten by a demon, was certain that his friends and himself were about to die, and the love of his life (Whom he was still afraid to completely open up to, after his first love betrayed him in the worst way) was last seen being eaten alive.
The only reason he didn't die then and there was because seeing Susan murdered made him mad enough to draw the power to turn the tide.
What's more, he had no way to save those people, given the situation. Susan's appearance pretty much fucked up his entire plan, and he couldn't even save her. That in itself is enough to break a man, sometimes.
Good guy, nothing. He had no way of getting through that alive without doing what he did. At least, not after Susan showed up.
Also if you are a damsel in distress.
You'll be out of that dress when you meet Jim West:whistle:
but man
if we're only halfway through his arc
Well I don't expect us to get there, but I can see it from here.
The aforementioned scene bothered me a lot too, along with the sex scene. I dislike associating Jim Butcher with anything remotely sexual.
Damn that was good.
UNDEAD DINOSAUR
this was actually the first book in the series that I read. that kind of hooked me.
edit: whoopsie daisy.
Polka. Never. DIES!
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
so sup
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
(cuz i heard i liked mystery)
edit: oh sorry i guess i didnt include in the first post that i also very much have enjoyed what i've been reading. he does a great job setting the scene and describing the characters while still leaving room to the imagination
(thats why i hate when art depicts characters on book covers)
Harry, you dumb fuck. Proven Guilty -
I'm still hoping for a Ramirez/Dresden buddy-cop book.
Hee hee. Hah hah hah.
That would be awesome.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
This isn't a Spoiler.
The White Council is the organization that Harry belongs too. It is more or less the Leauge of Official Wizadry in the Dresden-verse. The White Council's members are the most powerful wizards of the world, and some possibly outside the world (as we know it).
However, they (as a whole) are kind of dickish, conservative, old and don't like doing anything that requires effort outside of the majority of there members secluding themselves to their own devices.
The head of the White High Council is The Merlin, who is also kind of a dick. Even Michael Carpenter would think so.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
It's because he's getting old and has a lot more experience dealing with major league problems. It was easy for him to sit aside, the young punk, figuring the Council are a bunch of dimwits for doing the things they do. Now, he realizes that maybe the reason they've done things in such a way for centuries is because it's the best / safest / most effective way of doing so.
A) A stuffy politicking jackass
These restrictions do not require that he stop other people from crossing some of those boundaries, however, which is why I think he didn't stop Harry from being the living shit out of the guy.
Besides, the dude Harry beat down was literally a monster. They all knew that, the first chance he got, he'd more than likely be working at Nicodemus' side again, and would kill any of them without a moment's hesitation. So, even for Michael, there was no genuine sympathy.
I think that was a case where Harry did what a lot of people wish they had the nerve to do, but probably wouldn't ever willingly do if they really had the chance.