another problem they have is every character now is a caricature. Remember back in the early seasons when the civvies in the MOTW episodes actually had believable personalities, and were relatable and interesting? Remember Sarah Blake from Provenance, the episode with the haunted painting, who was terrified but still faced the ghost with Sam and Dean because she wanted to help? Layla, from Faith, who was dying of a brain tumor and spoke with Dean about what it meant to have faith (someone actually honestly religious and not presented as malicious, stupid, or misinformed)? Or Nancy, from Jus In Bello, the secretary at the jail who helped them fend off the demon siege? Or hell, even Ava from hunted and later All Hell Breaks Loose - we got to see her transformation from "oh god what the fuck is going on" to yellow-eyes influenced evil. I mean, jesus, even Tiny from Folsom Prison Blues got more honest character development than most new civvies before he died.
But now everyone is an idiot, or a joke. "Haha this guy is dumb, listen to how dumb he is" "haha this person is fat, listen to them talk about food" "haha, this dude is religious, listen to them act like a stupid fundie". Like, the people aren't people anymore. The writers don't spend any effort on them because they're only going to be in one episode and I guess it's hard enough trying to keep Sam and Dean in character 'cause they can't even do that. Sam and Dean used to really care about actually helping people, and they got to know people over the course of a case. And now it's like the only thing they think about is killing the thing, and the civvies get in the way more often than not... and that's just not Sam and Dean.
We got to know a little a bit about Henry Winchester...a little bit. But they killed him off.
Adding to the list of wasted characters: the Dorian Grey-ish member of the Men of Letters. Could have been interesting, but nah he has to be a one-offer.
Charlie is a weird case because she... well. She just takes over every episode she's in. She also feels more like a character out of Buffy than Supernatural.
Man every villain pretty much since Yellow Eyes was great, just completely wasted.
Seriously, this show is the master of setting up great pieces before shitting all over them. Eve? Naomi/Bartholomew? Dick Roman? Lucifer? Abbadon? Raphael? I could go on...
As great as the actor was, Metatron still kinda sucked. Abbadon on the other hand might have been a less terrible villain if they had a better actress playing her...and if they had actually made her a big villain rather than devoting like half of three episodes to that plotline, or at least mentioned it a few times in between.
This past season was weird because it was never clear why they had these two half baked plots floating around; metatron and Abbadon were completely disconnected from each other and neither had a really compelling story arc, which is a testament to the writers failure when you consider that they were about a guy tring to be god and someone else fighting to be the devil.
And it's not the actors' fault; nobody could have made this shit compelling.
Abaddons problem was all writing and not really the actress.
I hate the fact that they introduced the men of letters because its been nothing but a disappointment, they could have done 50 different amazing things with the plot threads and they literally did nothing and just shit on it.
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
I was about to mention a recent, well fleshed out, interesting character.
And then I remembered that I was thinking of an episode of Sleepy Hollow.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
I hate the fact that they introduced the men of letters because its been nothing but a disappointment, they could have done 50 different amazing things with the plot threads and they literally did nothing and just shit on it.
I'm not a huge fan of the lack of exploration in regards to hunter culture and stuff. Sure we got a bit of it with Jo+co and the crazy guy who turned into a vampire. But in this type of setting, I think it would be almost natural to explore all the various hunter types . But the showrunners seem to only feel safe relegating them to Garth status or Garth-like characters. Not sure if it's a budget issue or a "it makes Sam and Dean seem less badass if we introduce other badasses" , I suspect it's a bit of both.
If they were really concerned about Sam and Dean not looking like badasses, they wouldn't have both of them get taken out from behind by some jerkoff with a taser.
Sam and Dean haven't looked badass for a while now.
If they were really concerned about Sam and Dean not looking like badasses, they wouldn't have both of them get taken out from behind by some jerkoff with a taser.
Sam and Dean haven't looked badass for a while now.
Yeah, whatever happened to the guys that beat up and stole a couple of SWAT guys uniforms and then snuck out of a surrounded bank after they accidentally escalated a hostage situation while chasing a shifter?
Man every villain pretty much since Yellow Eyes was great, just completely wasted.
Seriously, this show is the master of setting up great pieces before shitting all over them. Eve? Naomi/Bartholomew? Dick Roman? Lucifer? Abbadon? Raphael? I could go on...
As great as the actor was, Metatron still kinda sucked. Abbadon on the other hand might have been a less terrible villain if they had a better actress playing her...and if they had actually made her a big villain rather than devoting like half of three episodes to that plotline, or at least mentioned it a few times in between.
And it's not the actors' fault; nobody could have made this shit compelling.
She just always seemed to be overacting to a "mustache twirling" level. I don't know, maybe it was the writing or the fact that her scenes were always across from Crowley (Mark Sheppard has mastered the more subtle evil of that character). I haven't really seen her in anything else to compare.
Regardless it's something I would have liked seen explored more.
re: other hunters and the larger hunter community (which I think would exist)
There was a larger hunter community, at least in seasons 1 and 2. I mean their dad had pissed off just about every hunter he ever worked with (including Bobbi) and Jo ran a bar that specialized in serving hunters until it died the death of no homes.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I'm not a huge fan of the lack of exploration in regards to hunter culture and stuff. Sure we got a bit of it with Jo+co and the crazy guy who turned into a vampire. But in this type of setting, I think it would be almost natural to explore all the various hunter types - seems almost natural.
Regardless it's something I would have liked seen explored more.
re: other hunters and the larger hunter community (which I think would exist)
There was a larger hunter community, at least in seasons 1 and 2. I mean their dad had pissed off just about every hunter he ever worked with (including Bobbi) and Jo ran a bar that specialized in serving hunters until it died the death of no homes.
by larger hunter community, I meant outside of that circle that quickly got wiped out.
e:and I noticed I said almost natural twice in my quote.
we got a bit of that with the Men of Letters. But we all know what happened to the two remaining members...
The show has desperately needed to just push into a wider occultist/secret society/conspiracy subculture. The Men of Letters were a good start, but they let it fizzle.
So I caught the tale end of a season 5 episode yesterday morning. Paris Hilton was playing some pagan deity, and in the 5 minute monologue she had, she was a more compelling villain than we've seen the last few seasons. The writing of that monologue was fantastic.
It wasn't as terrible as a feared it would be when I first saw it in the trailers, though at least least the hilton made a little since because of House of Wax. That one was just random.
One of the other great things about Supernatural that got lost somewhere was that it more often than not avoided urban society. It was "rural fantasy", if that makes any sense. You had this kind of backwater, classic rock vibe where these hunters drove around the country dealing with the unknown elements that preyed on people who were far away from big lights. Towns would have a sheriff or deputy and that was it. Characters were off the grid eccentrics who got their meals from truck stops and slept in motels. Monsters were scary because they dwelt in natural spaces, far away from human authorities. Everything was intentionally old fashioned, but in an authentic, down to earth way (unlike, say, the men of letter bunker). I miss that. The music they'd use felt appropriate. Now, whenever they turn on "Carry on the Wayward Son" it feels really, really out of place.
That was the problem when they raised the stakes, because the shows budget could never keep up with the amount of insanity they were unleashing, and as it went on the show just got the worse for it.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
That was the problem when they raised the stakes, because the shows budget could never keep up with the amount of insanity they were unleashing, and as it went on the show just got the worse for it.
That was my exact problem with the apocalypse in season 5.
You have the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse. And you have War calling out his influence in places like Darfur by name. But then you look at it, and he's hanging in some podunk nowhere town of 700 people. If he's War, why the fuck isn't he making Manhattan go insane and kill each other? Same with Famine. The only one who actually had a plan of any scale was Pestilence.
...And then they try to raise or at least keep the stakes high after that and... yeah. That shit don't work.
Fuckin writer's strike, man. I'd kill to see Kripke's original plan on screen instead of what we got.
Its the issue with a lot of serialized shows. They get champagne dreams on beer budgets, without realizing their audience doesn't want champagne! I want beer, I want a road show that takes myths and makes them real with a sense of humor and pop cultural refences.
I don't mind the dean going to hell arc, or getting out of hell arc, but they should have kept it small. Dean should have been released to try and weaken the divide between hell and earth, let more monsters, scarier monsters through, but only on the margins. Angels should have never been in the show, heaven should have been some motiveless ideal, not some kind of crappy Prophecy crib.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
That was the problem when they raised the stakes, because the shows budget could never keep up with the amount of insanity they were unleashing, and as it went on the show just got the worse for it.
That was my exact problem with the apocalypse in season 5.
You have the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse. And you have War calling out his influence in places like Darfur by name. But then you look at it, and he's hanging in some podunk nowhere town of 700 people. If he's War, why the fuck isn't he making Manhattan go insane and kill each other? Same with Famine. The only one who actually had a plan of any scale was Pestilence.
...And then they try to raise or at least keep the stakes high after that and... yeah. That shit don't work.
Fuckin writer's strike, man. I'd kill to see Kripke's original plan on screen instead of what we got.
It almost felt like they were trying to go for a Good Omens type plot line with the 4 Horsemen (ex: War in Good Omens stops in a bar, gets bored, and uses her powers to start a bar fight that leads into a civil war), but they just didn't have the chops to pull it off.
That was definitely part of the problem. They also had no fucking idea what to do with the character. His moral conundrums were clumsy at best.
I feel like it was a classic case of "Oh crap, this guy's popular! Throw him in more shit because really, we've been at this for five years and we gotta stay afloat!"
It was definitely that. Sadly I think it helped Castiel was a man, as every female character that was entertaining died horribly aside from the fan wank Charlie.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
It was definitely that. Sadly I think it helped Castiel was a man, as every female character that was entertaining died horribly aside from the fan wank Charlie.
Sheriff Mills is still alive, if that counts...
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Cas was only supposed to be in 3 or 4 eps, yeah. And Anna was basically supposed to be the main angel companion.
But Anna was a woman. So.
Cas should have died and stayed dead at the end of season 5. Past that they've had no idea what to do with him. And even as somebody that doesn't like the character, I still say all they've done is butcher him.
The only reason Jody Mills is still alive is because she's a 'mom' type character, so the fans aren't going to call for her death because she doesn't threaten their stupid 'ships'.
I am forever amazed that the writers actively respect that idiotic aspect of their fans wishes. If anything it shows the weakness of their writing. They aren't willing to upset their hardcore.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The writers don't realize that 99% of the people who watch Supernatural are non-shippers who don't give a fuck and think the fandom is fucking weird. They could literally piss off the entire online fandom (by which I mean the hardcore fanfic writing tumblrinas) and maybe lose 100,000 viewers total. But the regular viewers don't vote on stupid polls or inundate the writers with stupid letters or create stupid petitions etc etc. So all of the feedback they get is from the crazies.
It still makes the writers fucking spineless, though.
They should have taken the Vince Gilligan approach and just not fucking listened to fans ever.
I don't think so, Becky was never portrayed as a realistic love interest. If anything she was a gift to the shippers, someone the writers clearly thought of a segment of their fans as, but the fans in a maury sort of way could say "Well at least I'm not as awful as becky."
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
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But now everyone is an idiot, or a joke. "Haha this guy is dumb, listen to how dumb he is" "haha this person is fat, listen to them talk about food" "haha, this dude is religious, listen to them act like a stupid fundie". Like, the people aren't people anymore. The writers don't spend any effort on them because they're only going to be in one episode and I guess it's hard enough trying to keep Sam and Dean in character 'cause they can't even do that. Sam and Dean used to really care about actually helping people, and they got to know people over the course of a case. And now it's like the only thing they think about is killing the thing, and the civvies get in the way more often than not... and that's just not Sam and Dean.
All it does is make the world seem like a joke.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
In an episode written by Ben Edlund, so that would explain it.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Adding to the list of wasted characters: the Dorian Grey-ish member of the Men of Letters. Could have been interesting, but nah he has to be a one-offer.
Dorothy and Charlie.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
This past season was weird because it was never clear why they had these two half baked plots floating around; metatron and Abbadon were completely disconnected from each other and neither had a really compelling story arc, which is a testament to the writers failure when you consider that they were about a guy tring to be god and someone else fighting to be the devil.
And it's not the actors' fault; nobody could have made this shit compelling.
I hate the fact that they introduced the men of letters because its been nothing but a disappointment, they could have done 50 different amazing things with the plot threads and they literally did nothing and just shit on it.
And then I remembered that I was thinking of an episode of Sleepy Hollow.
I'm not a huge fan of the lack of exploration in regards to hunter culture and stuff. Sure we got a bit of it with Jo+co and the crazy guy who turned into a vampire. But in this type of setting, I think it would be almost natural to explore all the various hunter types . But the showrunners seem to only feel safe relegating them to Garth status or Garth-like characters. Not sure if it's a budget issue or a "it makes Sam and Dean seem less badass if we introduce other badasses" , I suspect it's a bit of both.
Sam and Dean haven't looked badass for a while now.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Yeah, whatever happened to the guys that beat up and stole a couple of SWAT guys uniforms and then snuck out of a surrounded bank after they accidentally escalated a hostage situation while chasing a shifter?
She just always seemed to be overacting to a "mustache twirling" level. I don't know, maybe it was the writing or the fact that her scenes were always across from Crowley (Mark Sheppard has mastered the more subtle evil of that character). I haven't really seen her in anything else to compare.
re: other hunters and the larger hunter community (which I think would exist)
There was a larger hunter community, at least in seasons 1 and 2. I mean their dad had pissed off just about every hunter he ever worked with (including Bobbi) and Jo ran a bar that specialized in serving hunters until it died the death of no homes.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Someone get the bib.
by larger hunter community, I meant outside of that circle that quickly got wiped out.
e:and I noticed I said almost natural twice in my quote.
we got a bit of that with the Men of Letters. But we all know what happened to the two remaining members...
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
pleasepaypreacher.net
That was my exact problem with the apocalypse in season 5.
You have the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse. And you have War calling out his influence in places like Darfur by name. But then you look at it, and he's hanging in some podunk nowhere town of 700 people. If he's War, why the fuck isn't he making Manhattan go insane and kill each other? Same with Famine. The only one who actually had a plan of any scale was Pestilence.
...And then they try to raise or at least keep the stakes high after that and... yeah. That shit don't work.
Fuckin writer's strike, man. I'd kill to see Kripke's original plan on screen instead of what we got.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
I don't mind the dean going to hell arc, or getting out of hell arc, but they should have kept it small. Dean should have been released to try and weaken the divide between hell and earth, let more monsters, scarier monsters through, but only on the margins. Angels should have never been in the show, heaven should have been some motiveless ideal, not some kind of crappy Prophecy crib.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
It almost felt like they were trying to go for a Good Omens type plot line with the 4 Horsemen (ex: War in Good Omens stops in a bar, gets bored, and uses her powers to start a bar fight that leads into a civil war), but they just didn't have the chops to pull it off.
It was the problem, once you put one all powerful fuck you being on your show, you need to have more.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I feel like it was a classic case of "Oh crap, this guy's popular! Throw him in more shit because really, we've been at this for five years and we gotta stay afloat!"
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
pleasepaypreacher.net
Sheriff Mills is still alive, if that counts...
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
pleasepaypreacher.net
But Anna was a woman. So.
Cas should have died and stayed dead at the end of season 5. Past that they've had no idea what to do with him. And even as somebody that doesn't like the character, I still say all they've done is butcher him.
The only reason Jody Mills is still alive is because she's a 'mom' type character, so the fans aren't going to call for her death because she doesn't threaten their stupid 'ships'.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
pleasepaypreacher.net
It still makes the writers fucking spineless, though.
They should have taken the Vince Gilligan approach and just not fucking listened to fans ever.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
pleasepaypreacher.net
As far as I remember she's still alive though.
pleasepaypreacher.net