If the wrestling argument had been two people involved in a BDSM breath control game I bet the lineup of where people fell on which side would have been different.
Wait, let me back up a bit there. Hypoxia causing damage is relevant. In cases where serious damage has occured, it is worth examining the guilt of the person applying the technique.
Frankly, I found your comment about "potential harm" a little weird. Does only physical harm matter? In any win/loss sport, there's a very high likelihood of harm. Is gambling immoral because, by winning money from someone, they may not be able to eat or pay their rent or whatever else? Where does personal initiative and responsibility come in and where does it end? If I walk into a casino, can I really blame them if I shove my entire paycheck through a slot machine and come home empty handed?
I feel that casinos have a moral responsibility to minimize the effects of compulsive gambling. If it's impossible for a casino to effectively do so and stay in business (I don't know if it is or not), then it may be impossible for casinos to operate in an ethical manner.
And are you arguing that both parties are acting unethically for engaging in an activity that might cause the other person harm, or are they acting unethically in engaging in something that might cause themselves harm? Or are both of these separate ethical concerns?
Primarily the bolded part. I do think that there is a very minor moral responsibility to take care of oneself; I don't think that self-harm is morally neutral just because you're doing it to yourself.
But mostly it's that I don't want to be instrumental in causing long-term harm to somebody, even if they consent. This is why, for instance, I won't engage in erotic asphyxiation. I've choked partners before and I regret it; there was no loss of consciousness nor any reason to suspect that any long-term harm was done, but upon looking at it in retrospect after the act I realized that the level of risk was outside of something that I'm comfortable with.
In short, I don't think that consent completely abrogates a person's responsibility to control risk and minimize irreversible harm. It's certainly a factor to consider, but it's not a free pass.
If the wrestling argument had been two people involved in a BDSM breath control game I bet the lineup of where people fell on which side would have been different.
And I found your response very interesting, Feral, specifically the anecdote.
I was just complaining the other day how infuriatingly car-centric this city is.
Having said that I live ten minutes walk from the cross city rail line and have a variety of bus stops within five minutes walk.
It was quite all right, indeed.
Just, impossible to navigate through the damned town due to lack of a MAP or a USEFUL WEBSITE. But quite all right besides that.
Yes the buses are useful if you know exactly where you are, where you're going, and what service connects the two, but they are less handy on the spur of the moment.
japan on
0
Options
ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Gambling is immoral. Not the gamblers themselves because their responsibility is partly relieved by the incredibly addictive nature of such a thing, but the casinos and locations offering gambling yet always maintaining "house edge" are frightfully immoral.
So what about four people that play poker for real moniez in each other's homes? No casino, no house...
I see this as different from casinos for a couple of reasons.
First off, presumably friends who get together are going to take care of each other in a way that a casino isn't going to take care of their customers. For instance, let's say that I got together with four friends for poker night, and one guy - let's call him Bob - loses all his chips. But instead of going home, or just hanging out, he leaves, goes to the ATM, and comes back with $500 and wants to rejoin the game. I and the other people in the game should say, "Bob, no. Just have a beer, hang out. We're not going to take your money."
Second, in poker, all players are on even footing. A casino on the other hand involves games where one player (the house) has a statistical advantage. The longer you play in a casino, the more likely you will leave in the red.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I was just complaining the other day how infuriatingly car-centric this city is.
Having said that I live ten minutes walk from the cross city rail line and have a variety of bus stops within five minutes walk.
It was quite all right, indeed.
Just, impossible to navigate through the damned town due to lack of a MAP or a USEFUL WEBSITE. But quite all right besides that.
Yes the buses are useful if you know exactly where you are, where you're going, and what service connects the two, but they are less handy on the spur of the moment.
Certainly, but it's so confusing. The Netherlands has www.9292ov.nl which allows you to punch in one address or station, stadium, hospital, theatre, school or a number of other things and another and it'll show you all shortest possible routes with public transport between those two location, plus prices, plus maps showing how you have to walk between the place you get off and your final destination.
It is the shit.
*e: There is so much Dunglish in this post, I feel ashamed.
And I found your response very interesting, Feral, specifically the anecdote.
Yeah. I find erotic asphyxiation even more objectionable. At least in sports, loss of consciousness is a common but usually undesired consequence. In erotic asphyxiation, it's an explicit (no pun intended) goal. If anything, the risk is higher.
When I had a partner who liked to be choked, loss of consciousness wasn't the intended goal. She just liked the feeling of hands around her neck. Still, I wish I hadn't done that, and I won't do it again.
Edit: anyway, I guess I'll give [chat] a reprieve from this conversation if you guys want it. I'm going to go grocery shopping.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Gambling is immoral. Not the gamblers themselves because their responsibility is partly relieved by the incredibly addictive nature of such a thing, but the casinos and locations offering gambling yet always maintaining "house edge" are frightfully immoral.
Of course casinos hold statistical edge, how else would they turn a profit?
I don't think phalla happens in D&D any more. Also, many of them have turned into abominations no longer recognisable as mafia. I think some of them involved dice.
If the wrestling argument had been two people involved in a BDSM breath control game I bet the lineup of where people fell on which side would have been different.
SSC, yo.
In so far as norms and a sense of rightness go in S&M, if you're knocking your partner out you're doing it wrong.
It certainly doesn't analogize to autoerotic asphyxiation.
I don't think phalla happens in D&D any more. Also, many of them have turned into abominations no longer recognisable as mafia. I think some of them involved dice.
My brother apologized to my mom after I left. So that's better. He basically can't make a decision without checking with his wife.
But there is a 100% chance that the origins of the guilt-ridden email involve a conversation of some sort with his wife who brought up the fact that her parents are more involved (due to proximity).
Most casino gambling is something I'll probably never understand the appeal of.
I can see betting on sports, or playing poker with money at stake, etc. but gambling on pure chance outcomes (especially where the odds are in the house's favour) seems to be literally giving money away.
Most casino gambling is something I'll probably never understand the appeal of.
I can see betting on sports, or playing poker with money at stake, etc. but gambling on pure chance outcomes (especially where the odds are in the house's favour) seems to be literally giving money away.
Are you sure you are British? If so, you need to get your bingo on asap.
If the wrestling argument had been two people involved in a BDSM breath control game I bet the lineup of where people fell on which side would have been different.
SSC, yo.
In so far as norms and a sense of rightness go in S&M, if you're knocking your partner out you're doing it wrong.
It certainly doesn't analogize to autoerotic asphyxiation.
But if you knock your partner out in wrestling you're doing it wrong too. It's definitely not supposed to get to that point.
there have been duels where both parties where run through, several times
none of them survived, of course, when medical science was based on leeches, bleeding, and rubbing dirt on it
Any links to this? Because I'm wearing my skeptical hat right now.
I read it far too long ago
but anyway, there's no way to die instantly by being run through
almost every instance of "he died instantly" is a white lie because "He then bled out quickly and in a lot of pain and expired after five minutes" sounds horrible
Most casino gambling is something I'll probably never understand the appeal of.
I can see betting on sports, or playing poker with money at stake, etc. but gambling on pure chance outcomes (especially where the odds are in the house's favour) seems to be literally giving money away.
How do you feel about the lottery?
I mean, I think gambling in a casino could be fun if you go into it thinking "I COULD get rich, and that's neat, but I know I probably won't and I'm not gonna spend more than 200$" and stick with it.
That is probably not how a lot of people approach it though.
Posts
Yes but you're a frightful cynic.
And I found your response very interesting, Feral, specifically the anecdote.
there are no fun stereotypes about Oslo. They're all heroinists and delinquents and their accent is horrible.
Yes the buses are useful if you know exactly where you are, where you're going, and what service connects the two, but they are less handy on the spur of the moment.
I am in California. Show me to the cock.
Well, what they teach in the reserves is probably a poor representation of what we taught in active duty line units.
punch, shivahn, you have to punch the cock
Excellent, she'll fit right in here in Sacndinavia's Sodom then.
I guess you're not from Tigerstaden, then?
I am trained in all manners of cockpunchery.
Usually I am punching people with the cock though.
I see this as different from casinos for a couple of reasons.
First off, presumably friends who get together are going to take care of each other in a way that a casino isn't going to take care of their customers. For instance, let's say that I got together with four friends for poker night, and one guy - let's call him Bob - loses all his chips. But instead of going home, or just hanging out, he leaves, goes to the ATM, and comes back with $500 and wants to rejoin the game. I and the other people in the game should say, "Bob, no. Just have a beer, hang out. We're not going to take your money."
Second, in poker, all players are on even footing. A casino on the other hand involves games where one player (the house) has a statistical advantage. The longer you play in a casino, the more likely you will leave in the red.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
God no
I'm a siddis
Stavanger yeah!
Certainly, but it's so confusing. The Netherlands has www.9292ov.nl which allows you to punch in one address or station, stadium, hospital, theatre, school or a number of other things and another and it'll show you all shortest possible routes with public transport between those two location, plus prices, plus maps showing how you have to walk between the place you get off and your final destination.
It is the shit.
*e: There is so much Dunglish in this post, I feel ashamed.
Yeah. I find erotic asphyxiation even more objectionable. At least in sports, loss of consciousness is a common but usually undesired consequence. In erotic asphyxiation, it's an explicit (no pun intended) goal. If anything, the risk is higher.
When I had a partner who liked to be choked, loss of consciousness wasn't the intended goal. She just liked the feeling of hands around her neck. Still, I wish I hadn't done that, and I won't do it again.
Edit: anyway, I guess I'll give [chat] a reprieve from this conversation if you guys want it. I'm going to go grocery shopping.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Of course casinos hold statistical edge, how else would they turn a profit?
NEAT
Over at CF it does
3DS: 2852-6809-9411
SSC, yo.
In so far as norms and a sense of rightness go in S&M, if you're knocking your partner out you're doing it wrong.
It certainly doesn't analogize to autoerotic asphyxiation.
It can be insane now yes, maps, levels, stats
3DS: 2852-6809-9411
But there is a 100% chance that the origins of the guilt-ridden email involve a conversation of some sort with his wife who brought up the fact that her parents are more involved (due to proximity).
I can see betting on sports, or playing poker with money at stake, etc. but gambling on pure chance outcomes (especially where the odds are in the house's favour) seems to be literally giving money away.
oh my god, so happy
On the black screen
Any links to this? Because I'm wearing my skeptical hat right now.
I almost threw up a little
Are you sure you are British? If so, you need to get your bingo on asap.
Failed.
But if you knock your partner out in wrestling you're doing it wrong too. It's definitely not supposed to get to that point.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html?choices=d7xl45yh
Done.
I kept going until there was a 400 billion surplus so you guys could pay down the national debt, too.
Ahahhahahahahaa
I read it far too long ago
but anyway, there's no way to die instantly by being run through
almost every instance of "he died instantly" is a white lie because "He then bled out quickly and in a lot of pain and expired after five minutes" sounds horrible
People have died in kendo.
Imagine having your throat run through by a bamboo stick and then you gurgling to death.
This is how it has happened.
How do you feel about the lottery?
I mean, I think gambling in a casino could be fun if you go into it thinking "I COULD get rich, and that's neat, but I know I probably won't and I'm not gonna spend more than 200$" and stick with it.
That is probably not how a lot of people approach it though.
But I can fill bars like a pro
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html?choices=d7xj66qh
I'm more doubting peoples ability to keep fighting after being run through, you might not die instantly but you are basically out of the fight.
And also dying from being run through isn't really an issue of bad medical science. A punctured organ is a punctured organ and is bad news.
Yes, but I'm too tired tonight. I can send a reply tomorrow.