That's kinda lame. Not a deal-breaker, but I was already leaning towards not getting it.
No, it's the point. It wouldn't be anywhere near as amazing experience if it worked like you want it to.
Yeah, it expands the mystery that you don't have a clue who the other could even be.
There was a couple times during the game I began to wonder if any of the companions might be AI scripts of some sort. Just, you know, how would I know if one wasn't player controlled?
That's kinda lame. Not a deal-breaker, but I was already leaning towards not getting it.
No, it's the point. It wouldn't be anywhere near as amazing experience if it worked like you want it to.
Eh, they should have just given me the option and let me decide if it adds to or detracts from the experience. So you don't want to talk to people you're playing online with? That's fine. You know you can already do that in any game you like.
I just have a feeling this is another one of those games where the "game" part took a back seat to everything else, and if I don't like it then I'm either "doing it wrong", "missing the point", or just plain close-minded.
It shows the names of all the other players you ran into. I didn't even realize it was like 6 different guys, could of sworn it was just one dude for the majority of it.
So this is worth $15? Kinda high for what I usually look to spend on these types of games, but I'm open to the idea that this is something special. I wish it was $10, but then I feel silly for caring that much about $5....
$$$?
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
That's kinda lame. Not a deal-breaker, but I was already leaning towards not getting it.
No, it's the point. It wouldn't be anywhere near as amazing experience if it worked like you want it to.
Eh, they should have just given me the option and let me decide if it adds to or detracts from the experience. So you don't want to talk to people you're playing online with? That's fine. You know you can already do that in any game you like.
I just have a feeling this is another one of those games where the "game" part took a back seat to everything else, and if I don't like it then I'm either "doing it wrong", "missing the point", or just plain close-minded.
Dude.
It's really not.
This has tangible world geometry and sculpted architectual puzzles. You go surfing on dunes at beakneck speeds in places. There's dungeony stuff.
This is not some clammy, weak-wristed hand-holding psuedo-pscyhological mouth-breathing theater of the mind indie weak shit here.
That's kinda lame. Not a deal-breaker, but I was already leaning towards not getting it.
No, it's the point. It wouldn't be anywhere near as amazing experience if it worked like you want it to.
Eh, they should have just given me the option and let me decide if it adds to or detracts from the experience. So you don't want to talk to people you're playing online with? That's fine. You know you can already do that in any game you like.
I just have a feeling this is another one of those games where the "game" part took a back seat to everything else, and if I don't like it then I'm either "doing it wrong", "missing the point", or just plain close-minded.
It's a carefully structured experience and the bolded/italicized bit is probably the issue. It might not just be for you. Not everything is and it doesn't make it a failed or flawed concept. Just one that doesn't jive with what you like.
I think it would be insulting to ask the makers to modify their vision just so you can shoot the shit with your buddy while exploring.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Well, he doesn't have to, of course.
But this is certainly a game where the things to like about it are right there on the screen. It stands on its own merits, and they are very quantifiable merits.
This isn't any sort of 'It's all a metaphor for Oppenheimer's work on the atomic bomb' shit.
I only bought a PS3 recently, and was having vague buyer's remorse until I bought this game. Holy Christ, the experience I had.
I don't like the use of the phrase "this might not be for you" or "you're missing the point" when discussing games. Both phrases always seem to underhandedly snipe at the intelligence of the person the comment is being directed at. What I will say is that I think I had more fun with this game because I went in wanting to like it; because I saw that it was a game that played with slightly unusual ideas that appeal to me. I saw the word 'journey', I saw that communication with other players was extremely limited by design and as part of the gameplay, and I said "this is for me".
I met six or seven people on my Journey. Two of them I did not like very much. One of them I found incessantly chirpy. Two of them, I felt, were looking for the same thing I was out of the game. One guy, I think, disconnected, because his guy knelt down and lay still - and I stayed with him for a little while because I didn't know what had happened and I wanted him to come back and walk with me. Even tried to revive him with shouts which seemed to energise his scarf a little bit. Hey, I solved a puzzle with that guy. That's a special bond.
This is amazing to me. The only communication we had was chiming at each other. No words (although I suspect that two quick chirps is recognisable as "hello" to pretty much anyone). Yet we developed relationships, or didn't, depending on action. I went in hoping for this, and it delivered beyond what I'd expected. And yes, perhaps nearly all of that is just me projecting emotion onto a blank slate of a character, but that's just as valid an outcome. Art does that too.
There are certainly no points that require teamwork or communication. The game can be completed single-player. So, although I hate to say it, bemoaning the lack of communication does sort of seem like missing the point. Or rather, it seems like in bemoaning the 'lack' of the feature, you're missing a great opportunity to discover for yourself what kind of experience you can have without it. And I think that's part of what Journey really wants to convey. And if it's an idea you're not interested in exploring, Journey makes it pretty clear that it's therefore not talking to you.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
I don't like the use of the phrase "this might not be for you" or "you're missing the point" when discussing games. Both phrases always seem to underhandedly snipe at the intelligence of the person the comment is being directed at.
Not at all. I don't like racing games, thus "this might not be for you (me)". Also, it's very easy to miss the point of something. It's not sniping at anyone, it's the fact that they're not seeing what the developer intended us to. Sure, we create our own experiences, but if you want to alter a fundamental game mechanic, then yes, you can "miss the point".
I don't have the game yet, but reading the comments I'm picturing:
Press a shoulder button to chirp. The longer you hold the button, the longer the chime, and the harder you press down, the higher the pitch.
I hope it's something similar, because you could develop a whole language around that! (And no, I'm not thinking about morse code, but rather affermative chirps, appreciative chirps, negative, etc. etc... you should already be getting "images" of how it might work just by reading this... I'm picturing sounds at least.)
eobet on
Heard the proposition that RIAA and MPAA should join forces and form "Music And Film Industry Association"?
I think it would be insulting to ask the makers to modify their vision just so you can shoot the shit with your buddy while exploring.
I don't really think that it's unreasonable to enjoy someone else's work on your own terms. By your logic, we shouldn't enjoy things like RiffTrax because it compromises the intentions of the filmmakers. If I wanna play Gears of War with a techno soundtrack, that's my own choice.
I understand their desire to leave out direct communication, I really do. But they should have just disabled voice chat but still let me experience the game with a friend. And if I wanted to have him on my cell phone headset, then it's my fault the atmosphere is ruined.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
I think it would be insulting to ask the makers to modify their vision just so you can shoot the shit with your buddy while exploring.
I don't really think that it's unreasonable to enjoy someone else's work on your own terms. By your logic, we shouldn't enjoy things like RiffTrax because it compromises the intentions of the filmmakers. If I wanna play Gears of War with a techno soundtrack, that's my own choice.
I understand their desire to leave out direct communication, I really do. But they should have just disabled voice chat but still let me experience the game with a friend. And if I wanted to have him on my cell phone headset, then it's my fault the atmosphere is ruined.
Sorry, but not the same at all. Changing the soundtrack isn't that big of a deal and something like Rifftrax is a complete transformation of the product, not just a slight alteration. It becomes a completely different work at that point. The act of exploring the work with a stranger is one of the core elements of the game.
Maybe you should try playing the game as it is before making all these leaps of judgement? It's only $15. That's lunch somewhere and this will give you hours of enjoyment rather than 30 minutes.
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ArtreusI'm a wizardAnd that looks fucked upRegistered Userregular
I really like the fact that there is limited communication between players because it removes a lot of motivation to be a random asshole to people. You can't yell at them or say bad things, so you just be nice to each other and do your own thing.
Also I had some bugs that made me stop playing last night.
I was going along with some guy for a while, it was great. Then we got to the area where you ride the kites. I got stuck on the kites. I could not move or jump off of them so my guy almost moved on. It took forever but I finally got off of it. Then later on, they all stopped moving due to.. internet connection stuff?
Maybe you should try playing the game as it is before making all these leaps of judgement? It's only $15. That's lunch somewhere and this will give you hours of enjoyment rather than 30 minutes.
My griping sort of went on a tangent that has less to do with the quality of this particular game and more to do with this mindset people seem to have when it comes to "artistic games". There can't really be any kind of conversation about an art game's shortcomings, because who are you to question the sacred vision on the developer?
I probably will play this sooner or later, but I probably won't bother logging in when I start it up.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Maybe you should try playing the game as it is before making all these leaps of judgement? It's only $15. That's lunch somewhere and this will give you hours of enjoyment rather than 30 minutes.
My griping sort of went on a tangent that has less to do with the quality of this particular game and more to do with this mindset people seem to have when it comes to "artistic games". There can't really be any kind of conversation about an art game's shortcomings, because who are you to question the sacred vision on the developer?
I probably will play this sooner or later, but I probably won't bother logging in when I start it up.
Why would you not bother logging in? I'm completely lost as to that decision on your part. Are you doing it just to be obstinate?
I'm not saying to not question things, but to deride the lack of a feature before you've even played it is pretty goosey. Give something a chance before you start attacking it. We can't have a conversation about it until you've bothered to take the time to play it and play it with other people like the developers intended. Until then, you're just shouting at the clouds.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. If this wasn't an artsy, pseudo-indie game, we wouldn't care what they intended. We would be freely, openly bitching about what we felt the game got wrong.
Even if I had already beaten the game, you would simply dismiss my opinion on the other grounds I mentioned ("this game just isn't for you" "you failed to understand/missed the point").
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
This is exactly what I'm talking about. If this wasn't an artsy, pseudo-indie game, we wouldn't care what they intended. We would be freely, openly bitching about what we felt the game got wrong.
Even if I had already beaten the game, you would simply dismiss my opinion on the other grounds I mentioned ("this game just isn't for you" "you failed to understand/missed the point").
Well, obviously at that point you would have figured out exactly that. That it isn't for you. But until you've actually played it we won't figure that one out.
You can't complain about what it got wrong when you haven't played it. So your first point is completely moot. Please, just go download it and give it a chance before you continue to go on and on about the features (or lack thereof) of a game you haven't played.
EDIT: I'll continue the discussion when you've played the game. Not before.
I think it would be insulting to ask the makers to modify their vision just so you can shoot the shit with your buddy while exploring.
I don't really think that it's unreasonable to enjoy someone else's work on your own terms. By your logic, we shouldn't enjoy things like RiffTrax because it compromises the intentions of the filmmakers. If I wanna play Gears of War with a techno soundtrack, that's my own choice.
I understand their desire to leave out direct communication, I really do. But they should have just disabled voice chat but still let me experience the game with a friend. And if I wanted to have him on my cell phone headset, then it's my fault the atmosphere is ruined.
And by your logic we shouldn't enjoy things like Uncharted because it forces you to use a controller and TV, as the developers intended. If you've no intention of playing by their rules, then don't play it and piss off. Simple.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. If this wasn't an artsy, pseudo-indie game, we wouldn't care what they intended.
But it IS 'artsy'. Or, if you want to use a less dismissive phrase, it is presented as actual art. It's designed to be different, and designed to be approached differently, played differently, and considered differently. Are you really arguing that the developer's intent shouldn't factor into how you approach a game?
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
Wow. So good. I actually got really sad when I lost my buddy during the "water" portion. Kept looking around then found him and I was hugely releaved.
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I don't know if this is a useful digression.
I think it should be a valid choice for a developer to make minimalist decisions when it comes to the design of their game, provided the decision is intentional and handled well.
There have certainly been many games made that lacked certain features due to:
1) Lack of budget/development time
2) Lack of imagination
3) Lack of quality control/concern for a positive experience on the buyer end.
It's another thing entire if a developer can intentionally cut out a lot of things and still make an enjoyable title by specifically arranging the key strengths of the idea to be improved or somehow enhanced by the lack of other, often standard features.
Now, reasons 1-3 are, at the end of the day, still opinion-based. How much development time is 'enough'? How much imagination? How much quality control is 'enough'? How positive must a user's experience be to be considered acceptable, or even exceptional?
I never played flow or flOwer or whatever, because I couldn't view them as game experiences.
I was also irritated by the name 'Jenova Chen' but, anway.
Others' enjoyment of games that I myself did not choose to try does not somehow make me enjoy the game I didn't try any less. But Journey showcased, to me, a fully realized environment, specifically chosen. These are developers who can do what they want, really. They have success stories under their belt, a good reputation for the audience they've sought, and the blessings of Sony to take the time needed to make whatever it is they want to do next.
So I see a game with a consistent, stylistic choice that looks pretty original. To me, Journey looks like a decision by the developers to see how simple they could go and still make a game that would look beautiful and not be possible last generation. It holds up to that scrutiny pretty well. There's no clutter. Everything is placed with intent, and much of the gameworld looks sculpted, as though every bit of ruin and scattered stone might be unique and carefully placed. I know it isn't quite that way, but the illusion holds.
And, there we are.
I am left feeling, do I think this game requires a menu system with more options? Do I think live chat would compliment the solitude and vastness of the world being shown to me? Would I want quicksave continue icons, or a map, or unlockable costumes?
Well, unlockable costumes might actually be fun. But I have to say that for the specific goals that the developers seemed to have set out for themselves, Journey is not any poorer for lacking these features.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
I guess I played this game at a bad time, because my internet connection was flaky tonight. Regardless, I sat down and played through it in one sitting. Ended up playing with two people. I probably lost the first person due to the bad internet connection. We joined up in the second area and probably lost each other in the third. The second guy was with me through most of the rest of the game. There was a somewhat hilarious moment near the end.
Near the summit when you run from one hiding place to the next to stay away from the flying creatures, we were doing quite well until we got to the last one. I got a bit cocky and assumed we had enough time to keep running through the last hiding spot and make it to the end of that section. My partner followed me, and then I noticed the creature's seeklight heading right for us. We tried to dive back into the hiding spot, but it was too late and spotted us. It crashed into the hiding spot and sent us tumbling away. The partner did a mid-range note and I chuckled, then we just moved on.
Well, I guess you had to be there. Maybe I laughed because it was one of those tense moments that ended with me screwing it up.
I was sad that he disappeared somewhere in the very last level. I waited at the top to see if he'd come up, but never did. Again, probably due to my connection crapping out a few times tonight.
I really, really want a high res desktop image that's just the "Start New Journey" screen. If anyone finds one, or hell, any image from this gorgeous game high res enough to be used as a widescreen desktop, I would love you forever if you shared.
Played this tonight after a family dinner. My mother, father, brother and his girlfriend were all here for a birthday and I just started playing it in the living room. Needless to say they all just sat there and watched, enthusiastically exclaiming when anything awesome or tense happened, or yelling at me to find my companion whenever we lost track of them.
It's a rare game that can capture the attention of anyone regardless of their background in gaming, from start to finish. My father couldn't believe when we got to the end that I had played with four different people through the course of the thing. We were all convinced it was one person, I suspected it was maybe two. But four? I must've had the same experience with all of them, where one of us found a collectible and kept yelling until the other would come over and pick it up for themselves.
At one point near the end I got hit by the stone dragon thing and lost like half of my scarf. The person I was with seemed to try and stay closer to me to keep my now shorter scarf from going out completely. What's crazy about that is I'm not even sure any of that matters. My entire family yelled at me anytime I got any distance away from my partner because they were convinced that if our scarf ran out we'd die. I'm fairly certain this isn't the case, I'm not sure there's ever a fail-state in the game at all. But even the people watching who had never really played games just felt that we needed to stay close to our companion to avoid the scarf freezing all the way. The game didn't need to express this anymore than the visual of it just happening, and everyone in the room got it.
I mean, they all yelled "YAY" and clapped at the moment when you turn golden and just shoot off into the heavens and start flying above the mountains. Games don't typically invoke this kind of response from people.
TL;DR this game is amazing and everyone should play it.
I am left feeling, do I think this game requires a menu system with more options? Do I think live chat would compliment the solitude and vastness of the world being shown to me? Would I want quicksave continue icons, or a map, or unlockable costumes?
Well, unlockable costumes might actually be fun. But I have to say that for the specific goals that the developers seemed to have set out for themselves, Journey is not any poorer for lacking these features.
Of course it isn't. Saying that Journey "lacks these features" is like saying a fish lacks a beak, elbows and hooves. I mean, technically that's true, but they're not 'lacking', they're simply not relevant to the game/fish being presented. A couple of people are talking about the lack of voice chat as if it's somehow a "missing" feature that should have been included, which is an odd position to hold, since there being no voice chat is a core design feature meant to shape the emotional experience of Journey's multiplayer.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I am left feeling, do I think this game requires a menu system with more options? Do I think live chat would compliment the solitude and vastness of the world being shown to me? Would I want quicksave continue icons, or a map, or unlockable costumes?
Well, unlockable costumes might actually be fun. But I have to say that for the specific goals that the developers seemed to have set out for themselves, Journey is not any poorer for lacking these features.
Of course it isn't. Saying that Journey "lacks these features" is like saying a fish lacks a beak, elbows and hooves. I mean, technically that's true, but they're not 'lacking', they're simply not relevant to the game/fish being presented. A couple of people are talking about the lack of voice chat as if it's somehow a "missing" feature that should have been included, which is an odd position to hold, since there being no voice chat is a core design feature meant to shape the emotional experience of Journey's multiplayer.
Well, I appreciate your agreeing with me, but the core of what I was trying to do here was to give a quantitative statement on why Journey succeeds without other involving other elements and without resorting to metaphors or floaty emotional response values that some people might take as blithe non-statements rather than engaging the meat of the game itself.
And by your logic we shouldn't enjoy things like Uncharted because it forces you to use a controller and TV, as the developers intended. If you've no intention of playing by their rules, then don't play it and piss off. Simple.
That example is pretty retarded. I'm talking about adding something to the game that I feel would add to my experience. Not stripping away everything that makes it what it is.
Frankly, my anonymous co-op partners might as well be AI controlled for all the interaction there is.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
And by your logic we shouldn't enjoy things like Uncharted because it forces you to use a controller and TV, as the developers intended. If you've no intention of playing by their rules, then don't play it and piss off. Simple.
That example is pretty retarded. I'm talking about adding something to the game that I feel would add to my experience. Not stripping away everything that makes it what it is.
Frankly, my anonymous co-op partners might as well be AI controlled for all the interaction there is.
How would you know when you still haven't played the game???
Adding something can take away from an experience. Who cares if you think it would add something? It's not your game. Lack of voice chat and friend partnering is a specific part of what the developers envisioned. Maybe when you actually decide to try this thing that you keep going on and on and on about with no experience of it you'll start to figure that out.
It might help you to actually listen to the people in the thread who have played the game instead of just being goose-headed about the whole thing. Are you not reading the stories people are telling about how the game made them feel when they thought their partners were lost? You're not going to get that experience when you add the things you want.
Did I say the game was bad? First you tell me my opinion doesn't matter, then you try to decide my opinion for me. I thought the game was decent enough. I still think the online was a wasted opportunity.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Did I say the game was bad? First you tell me my opinion doesn't matter, then you try to decide my opinion for me. I thought the game was decent enough. I still think the online was a wasted opportunity.
No, you haven't said anything about the game other than to constantly complain about the lack of friend co-op.
Well, it's pretty much you against the world with your opinion on the "wasted opportunity". Sorry that you feel that way.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Dirty, I think the game you really want to play is actually in this thread.
I for one am glad I'll be incapable of knowing if it's you online.
And by your logic we shouldn't enjoy things like Uncharted because it forces you to use a controller and TV, as the developers intended. If you've no intention of playing by their rules, then don't play it and piss off. Simple.
That example is pretty retarded. I'm talking about adding something to the game that I feel would add to my experience. Not stripping away everything that makes it what it is.
Frankly, my anonymous co-op partners might as well be AI controlled for all the interaction there is.
The example is fine. I'm sure there are people out there that think putting Uncharted 1-3 on an iPad with touch controls would add to their experience but it doesn't make them right. Or to use a more similar example to Journey, I'm sure there are people that think Demon's Souls would be better if it was much easier and had voice chat and friend inviting but again, that doesn't mean they're right. The difficulty and lack of those two online features are a large part of what makes Demon's Souls such a great game. Tone it down and the game wouldn't nearly be as good as it is.
Anyway, I just played through it again and had just as much fun as the first time. I managed to find the remaining glyths and symbols I hadn't last time, unlocking both trophies and more importantly, an awesome white cloak. I have to wonder if
The three remaining steps in the little area where you swap into the white cloak indicates some future DLC. I sure hope so.
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No, it's the point. It wouldn't be anywhere near as amazing experience if it worked like you want it to.
Yeah, it expands the mystery that you don't have a clue who the other could even be.
There was a couple times during the game I began to wonder if any of the companions might be AI scripts of some sort. Just, you know, how would I know if one wasn't player controlled?
Eh, they should have just given me the option and let me decide if it adds to or detracts from the experience. So you don't want to talk to people you're playing online with? That's fine. You know you can already do that in any game you like.
I just have a feeling this is another one of those games where the "game" part took a back seat to everything else, and if I don't like it then I'm either "doing it wrong", "missing the point", or just plain close-minded.
$$$?
Dude.
It's really not.
This has tangible world geometry and sculpted architectual puzzles. You go surfing on dunes at beakneck speeds in places. There's dungeony stuff.
This is not some clammy, weak-wristed hand-holding psuedo-pscyhological mouth-breathing theater of the mind indie weak shit here.
It's actually got some real chops.
It's a carefully structured experience and the bolded/italicized bit is probably the issue. It might not just be for you. Not everything is and it doesn't make it a failed or flawed concept. Just one that doesn't jive with what you like.
I think it would be insulting to ask the makers to modify their vision just so you can shoot the shit with your buddy while exploring.
But this is certainly a game where the things to like about it are right there on the screen. It stands on its own merits, and they are very quantifiable merits.
This isn't any sort of 'It's all a metaphor for Oppenheimer's work on the atomic bomb' shit.
I don't like the use of the phrase "this might not be for you" or "you're missing the point" when discussing games. Both phrases always seem to underhandedly snipe at the intelligence of the person the comment is being directed at. What I will say is that I think I had more fun with this game because I went in wanting to like it; because I saw that it was a game that played with slightly unusual ideas that appeal to me. I saw the word 'journey', I saw that communication with other players was extremely limited by design and as part of the gameplay, and I said "this is for me".
I met six or seven people on my Journey. Two of them I did not like very much. One of them I found incessantly chirpy. Two of them, I felt, were looking for the same thing I was out of the game. One guy, I think, disconnected, because his guy knelt down and lay still - and I stayed with him for a little while because I didn't know what had happened and I wanted him to come back and walk with me. Even tried to revive him with shouts which seemed to energise his scarf a little bit. Hey, I solved a puzzle with that guy. That's a special bond.
This is amazing to me. The only communication we had was chiming at each other. No words (although I suspect that two quick chirps is recognisable as "hello" to pretty much anyone). Yet we developed relationships, or didn't, depending on action. I went in hoping for this, and it delivered beyond what I'd expected. And yes, perhaps nearly all of that is just me projecting emotion onto a blank slate of a character, but that's just as valid an outcome. Art does that too.
There are certainly no points that require teamwork or communication. The game can be completed single-player. So, although I hate to say it, bemoaning the lack of communication does sort of seem like missing the point. Or rather, it seems like in bemoaning the 'lack' of the feature, you're missing a great opportunity to discover for yourself what kind of experience you can have without it. And I think that's part of what Journey really wants to convey. And if it's an idea you're not interested in exploring, Journey makes it pretty clear that it's therefore not talking to you.
Not at all. I don't like racing games, thus "this might not be for you (me)". Also, it's very easy to miss the point of something. It's not sniping at anyone, it's the fact that they're not seeing what the developer intended us to. Sure, we create our own experiences, but if you want to alter a fundamental game mechanic, then yes, you can "miss the point".
It's about child birth.
Hey, I have a blog! (Actually being updated again!)
3DS: 0860-3240-2604
I will say that
Press a shoulder button to chirp. The longer you hold the button, the longer the chime, and the harder you press down, the higher the pitch.
I hope it's something similar, because you could develop a whole language around that! (And no, I'm not thinking about morse code, but rather affermative chirps, appreciative chirps, negative, etc. etc... you should already be getting "images" of how it might work just by reading this... I'm picturing sounds at least.)
I don't really think that it's unreasonable to enjoy someone else's work on your own terms. By your logic, we shouldn't enjoy things like RiffTrax because it compromises the intentions of the filmmakers. If I wanna play Gears of War with a techno soundtrack, that's my own choice.
I understand their desire to leave out direct communication, I really do. But they should have just disabled voice chat but still let me experience the game with a friend. And if I wanted to have him on my cell phone headset, then it's my fault the atmosphere is ruined.
Sorry, but not the same at all. Changing the soundtrack isn't that big of a deal and something like Rifftrax is a complete transformation of the product, not just a slight alteration. It becomes a completely different work at that point. The act of exploring the work with a stranger is one of the core elements of the game.
Maybe you should try playing the game as it is before making all these leaps of judgement? It's only $15. That's lunch somewhere and this will give you hours of enjoyment rather than 30 minutes.
Also I had some bugs that made me stop playing last night.
My griping sort of went on a tangent that has less to do with the quality of this particular game and more to do with this mindset people seem to have when it comes to "artistic games". There can't really be any kind of conversation about an art game's shortcomings, because who are you to question the sacred vision on the developer?
I probably will play this sooner or later, but I probably won't bother logging in when I start it up.
Why would you not bother logging in? I'm completely lost as to that decision on your part. Are you doing it just to be obstinate?
I'm not saying to not question things, but to deride the lack of a feature before you've even played it is pretty goosey. Give something a chance before you start attacking it. We can't have a conversation about it until you've bothered to take the time to play it and play it with other people like the developers intended. Until then, you're just shouting at the clouds.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. If this wasn't an artsy, pseudo-indie game, we wouldn't care what they intended. We would be freely, openly bitching about what we felt the game got wrong.
Even if I had already beaten the game, you would simply dismiss my opinion on the other grounds I mentioned ("this game just isn't for you" "you failed to understand/missed the point").
Well, obviously at that point you would have figured out exactly that. That it isn't for you. But until you've actually played it we won't figure that one out.
You can't complain about what it got wrong when you haven't played it. So your first point is completely moot. Please, just go download it and give it a chance before you continue to go on and on about the features (or lack thereof) of a game you haven't played.
EDIT: I'll continue the discussion when you've played the game. Not before.
And by your logic we shouldn't enjoy things like Uncharted because it forces you to use a controller and TV, as the developers intended. If you've no intention of playing by their rules, then don't play it and piss off. Simple.
But it IS 'artsy'. Or, if you want to use a less dismissive phrase, it is presented as actual art. It's designed to be different, and designed to be approached differently, played differently, and considered differently. Are you really arguing that the developer's intent shouldn't factor into how you approach a game?
I think it should be a valid choice for a developer to make minimalist decisions when it comes to the design of their game, provided the decision is intentional and handled well.
There have certainly been many games made that lacked certain features due to:
1) Lack of budget/development time
2) Lack of imagination
3) Lack of quality control/concern for a positive experience on the buyer end.
It's another thing entire if a developer can intentionally cut out a lot of things and still make an enjoyable title by specifically arranging the key strengths of the idea to be improved or somehow enhanced by the lack of other, often standard features.
Now, reasons 1-3 are, at the end of the day, still opinion-based. How much development time is 'enough'? How much imagination? How much quality control is 'enough'? How positive must a user's experience be to be considered acceptable, or even exceptional?
I never played flow or flOwer or whatever, because I couldn't view them as game experiences.
So I see a game with a consistent, stylistic choice that looks pretty original. To me, Journey looks like a decision by the developers to see how simple they could go and still make a game that would look beautiful and not be possible last generation. It holds up to that scrutiny pretty well. There's no clutter. Everything is placed with intent, and much of the gameworld looks sculpted, as though every bit of ruin and scattered stone might be unique and carefully placed. I know it isn't quite that way, but the illusion holds.
And, there we are.
I am left feeling, do I think this game requires a menu system with more options? Do I think live chat would compliment the solitude and vastness of the world being shown to me? Would I want quicksave continue icons, or a map, or unlockable costumes?
Well, unlockable costumes might actually be fun. But I have to say that for the specific goals that the developers seemed to have set out for themselves, Journey is not any poorer for lacking these features.
Well, I guess you had to be there. Maybe I laughed because it was one of those tense moments that ended with me screwing it up.
I was sad that he disappeared somewhere in the very last level. I waited at the top to see if he'd come up, but never did. Again, probably due to my connection crapping out a few times tonight.
My Backloggery
Played this tonight after a family dinner. My mother, father, brother and his girlfriend were all here for a birthday and I just started playing it in the living room. Needless to say they all just sat there and watched, enthusiastically exclaiming when anything awesome or tense happened, or yelling at me to find my companion whenever we lost track of them.
It's a rare game that can capture the attention of anyone regardless of their background in gaming, from start to finish. My father couldn't believe when we got to the end that I had played with four different people through the course of the thing. We were all convinced it was one person, I suspected it was maybe two. But four? I must've had the same experience with all of them, where one of us found a collectible and kept yelling until the other would come over and pick it up for themselves.
I mean, they all yelled "YAY" and clapped at the moment when you turn golden and just shoot off into the heavens and start flying above the mountains. Games don't typically invoke this kind of response from people.
TL;DR this game is amazing and everyone should play it.
Of course it isn't. Saying that Journey "lacks these features" is like saying a fish lacks a beak, elbows and hooves. I mean, technically that's true, but they're not 'lacking', they're simply not relevant to the game/fish being presented. A couple of people are talking about the lack of voice chat as if it's somehow a "missing" feature that should have been included, which is an odd position to hold, since there being no voice chat is a core design feature meant to shape the emotional experience of Journey's multiplayer.
Well, I appreciate your agreeing with me, but the core of what I was trying to do here was to give a quantitative statement on why Journey succeeds without other involving other elements and without resorting to metaphors or floaty emotional response values that some people might take as blithe non-statements rather than engaging the meat of the game itself.
That example is pretty retarded. I'm talking about adding something to the game that I feel would add to my experience. Not stripping away everything that makes it what it is.
Frankly, my anonymous co-op partners might as well be AI controlled for all the interaction there is.
How would you know when you still haven't played the game???
Adding something can take away from an experience. Who cares if you think it would add something? It's not your game. Lack of voice chat and friend partnering is a specific part of what the developers envisioned. Maybe when you actually decide to try this thing that you keep going on and on and on about with no experience of it you'll start to figure that out.
It might help you to actually listen to the people in the thread who have played the game instead of just being goose-headed about the whole thing. Are you not reading the stories people are telling about how the game made them feel when they thought their partners were lost? You're not going to get that experience when you add the things you want.
See that big gap between my posts? Take a wild guess what I was doing.
Well then, I think you've figured out that this game isn't for you. Sorry to see you wasted your $15.
No, you haven't said anything about the game other than to constantly complain about the lack of friend co-op.
Well, it's pretty much you against the world with your opinion on the "wasted opportunity". Sorry that you feel that way.
I for one am glad I'll be incapable of knowing if it's you online.
The example is fine. I'm sure there are people out there that think putting Uncharted 1-3 on an iPad with touch controls would add to their experience but it doesn't make them right. Or to use a more similar example to Journey, I'm sure there are people that think Demon's Souls would be better if it was much easier and had voice chat and friend inviting but again, that doesn't mean they're right. The difficulty and lack of those two online features are a large part of what makes Demon's Souls such a great game. Tone it down and the game wouldn't nearly be as good as it is.
Anyway, I just played through it again and had just as much fun as the first time. I managed to find the remaining glyths and symbols I hadn't last time, unlocking both trophies and more importantly, an awesome white cloak. I have to wonder if