Just thought I would pop this on for a few minutes to see the visuals...90 minutes later it's way past my bed time.
One of the most unique gaming experiences I've ever had. Incredible, especially since it sounded like Jenova Chen was full of crap but hot damn did he and their team pull it off.
"I'd happily trade your life for knowledge of my powers."
-Louis C.K.
One thing I will say against the co-op element of the game is the fact that some in world events are triggered when a player steps over a certain point. Some people might want to be there setting the trigger off themselves rather than dicking around with some nook in the world that caught their eye. Though I suppose there is always the option of just disabling the online and playing it single player.
Great game all round though. Dat soundtrack. Dat everything.
And also, I came very close to playing through the game three straight times. I want to be your companion, everyone's companion.
i haven't been around the forums that much lately, especially not g&t, but i must vent this now or i will have the words swilling around inside me forever more, or at least, until breakfast tomorrow:
Let me preface this by saying that I hated hated hated Flow and Flower, and anyone who's seen me around the boards knows that I almost universally despise co-op and think that it almost always detracts from the gameplay experience, and never enhances:
I think Journey is pretty much perfect.
I was pretty much ready to hate on this game, and in the first few minutes, I was thinking that would be the case. It controlled like a dream and looked gorgeous, but your character just seemed to move so damn slow and having to traverse the environment to light up ribbons...the thought that crossed my mind was "ugh."
Then I found a companion! We were zipping around, recharging each others' jumps, building bridges and taking on the world together. There was no obnoxious floating Gamertag/PSN ID to let me know who they were. And there's something special about the puzzle design of this game, combined with the beautiful animation; compare it to any other co-op game I've played where there are puzzles involved, where you can see your co-op partner's in-game avatar "thinking" about the solution and going through different motions to try and solve the puzzles, which usually ends up with me or them or both of us being frustrated. It's hard to articulate but it feels very...mechanical. Here, there were a few moments where you could tell we were both thinking the same thing, sometimes correct and sometimes not, but it never felt unnatural or like we were struggling against the game.
Then came the part where
you go underwater
My companion just stood there at the beginning of that section. I stood around for a second, waited for him. He went into meditation. I sat down right next to him, because I felt attached to some co-op player I didn't know. I didn't want to continue forward without him. And then he disintegrated! And I was in a strange new place! I pushed forward and eventually, a little bit ahead in the distance, I saw a speck that turned out to be another companion. We finished the game together. And what a hell of an ending sequence this game has.
So kudos to thatgamecompany, in many respects. They made an artsy game without making it too abstract just for the sake of it. They made an actual game this time around. They made one of the best-looking titles on the system. They made the first game where I feel co-op (and I agree with everyone that not knowing who it is makes it better) is necessary to the experience, instead of just a bad excuse to not be saddled with some lame AI partner. They made a beautiful game that's a delight to control and play, and that actually has some emotional resonance while not uttering a single word. I am deeply impressed with this game.
One con, however, and it's as I said above - co-op is necessary to this in my eyes. I don't think it would be half the game taken as a single player experience. I feel bad for anyone that approaches it that way, honestly, but to each their own.
But both of my Journey guys definitely cooperated with me pretty well
At the same time I can't justify coming up with some new gaming term just for the mode of multiplayer that is in this game. Traditionally there are two kinds of multiplayer; competitive and co-op. This is co-op.
The example is fine. I'm sure there are people out there that think putting Uncharted 1-3 on an iPad with touch controls would add to their experience but it doesn't make them right.
Okay, now you're talking about porting it to other platforms. That would make sense if I was saying Journey should be on the Gameboy Advance.
No, you haven't said anything about the game other than to constantly complain about the lack of friend co-op.
Well, it's pretty much you against the world with your opinion on the "wasted opportunity". Sorry that you feel that way.
Ya know, it's really a minor gripe, all things considered. My biggest gripe is that you're not even allowed to discuss your gripes with this kind of game. We have threads on Zelda, Metal Gear, and Mass Effect, and people discuss the good and the bad of the games. No one dismisses your criticism with "Just accept Bioware's vision 100% as it is or piss off and die".
It's really my mistake for thinking that a thread about an artistic game made by a relatively small team would actually be a discussion rather than a circlejerk about how awesome and perfect it is. I actually kinda like the fucking game. It's a shame I'll never get to actually talk about it here.
I played through almost all of the game with the same person, and that lent all of the various trials and tribulations added poignancy that I think would otherwise have not been there. Also having now played through it all with a person, I feel like playing through it alone would be a bit of a soul crushing experience.
They have managed to create what feels to me like an interactive feature film.
From my playthrough:
In the frozen section, where you're moving from hiding place to hiding place, we got to the very last one, and my compatriot ventured out. I quickly looked at the approaching behemoth and started frantically singing at them to get back under cover, which they did narrowly. My heart was in my throat, a really visceral response that in hindsight I was surprised to have experienced.
An hour and a half game managed to make me feel a connection with someone who I knew nothing about save for their actions expressed through an avatar. That's pretty special.
Edit: Also there's some soundtrack excerpts here, like 7 tracks worth.
The example is fine. I'm sure there are people out there that think putting Uncharted 1-3 on an iPad with touch controls would add to their experience but it doesn't make them right.
Okay, now you're talking about porting it to other platforms. That would make sense if I was saying Journey should be on the Gameboy Advance.
No, you haven't said anything about the game other than to constantly complain about the lack of friend co-op.
Well, it's pretty much you against the world with your opinion on the "wasted opportunity". Sorry that you feel that way.
Ya know, it's really a minor gripe, all things considered. My biggest gripe is that you're not even allowed to discuss your gripes with this kind of game. We have threads on Zelda, Metal Gear, and Mass Effect, and people discuss the good and the bad of the games. No one dismisses your criticism with "Just accept Bioware's vision 100% as it is or piss off and die".
It's really my mistake for thinking that a thread about an artistic game made by a relatively small team would actually be a discussion rather than a circlejerk about how awesome and perfect it is. I actually kinda like the fucking game. It's a shame I'll never get to actually talk about it here.
What you aren't getting is that we would welcome discussion with someone who had played the damn game. You'd at least be able to make a legit complaint then if you still felt it was lacking.
Instead you are just whining about a perceived lack. And we are telling you, as people who have played the game, that we think it's fine the way it is.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
The example is fine. I'm sure there are people out there that think putting Uncharted 1-3 on an iPad with touch controls would add to their experience but it doesn't make them right.
Okay, now you're talking about porting it to other platforms. That would make sense if I was saying Journey should be on the Gameboy Advance.
No, you haven't said anything about the game other than to constantly complain about the lack of friend co-op.
Well, it's pretty much you against the world with your opinion on the "wasted opportunity". Sorry that you feel that way.
Ya know, it's really a minor gripe, all things considered. My biggest gripe is that you're not even allowed to discuss your gripes with this kind of game. We have threads on Zelda, Metal Gear, and Mass Effect, and people discuss the good and the bad of the games. No one dismisses your criticism with "Just accept Bioware's vision 100% as it is or piss off and die".
It's really my mistake for thinking that a thread about an artistic game made by a relatively small team would actually be a discussion rather than a circlejerk about how awesome and perfect it is. I actually kinda like the fucking game. It's a shame I'll never get to actually talk about it here.
What you aren't getting is that we would welcome discussion with someone who had played the damn game. You'd at least be able to make a legit complaint then if you still felt it was lacking.
Instead you are just whining about a perceived lack. And we are telling you, as people who have played the game, that we think it's fine the way it is.
Ignore him. If you look over the past discussions, Dirty ignores any attempts to have a valid discussion and prefers to express a world where we only disprove of him. I'm ready to indulge him that now, but will no longer actively do so.
dirty: journey's core pursuit is about how relationships are formed and bound by shared experience. bringing existing friends into the equation would be a massive compromise to that. you may want to play this like whatever other fartarse arcade time waster you prefer, but understand that this game isn't built on a bullet-point list of features that satisfies every comer in every way
What you aren't getting is that we would welcome discussion with someone who had played the damn game. You'd at least be able to make a legit complaint then if you still felt it was lacking.
Instead you are just whining about a perceived lack. And we are telling you, as people who have played the game, that we think it's fine the way it is.
What you aren't getting is that I did play the damn game. And even after I played it, there was that dismissive attitude ("Well I guess the game isn't for you." "Your opinion is in the minority, so it is wrong").
What you aren't getting is that we would welcome discussion with someone who had played the damn game. You'd at least be able to make a legit complaint then if you still felt it was lacking.
Instead you are just whining about a perceived lack. And we are telling you, as people who have played the game, that we think it's fine the way it is.
What you aren't getting is that I did play the damn game. And even after I played it, there was that dismissive attitude ("Well I guess the game isn't for you." "Your opinion is in the minority, so it is wrong").
Not all games are for all people? I don't like adventure games, I don't blame the developers for that. It's not a lack of something in those games, it's just my preferences.
I think people are saying you are wrong because there isn't a missing feature. Buddy co-op and voice chat were never advertised as part of the product. Now, you think the game lacks, but that's your opinion. It's not something actually wrong with the game, like a bug or something. That's all you. And if people don't seem to be taking you seriously it was because you were climbing up onto that same cross before even trying the game. People tend not to take silly geese seriously.
The example is fine. I'm sure there are people out there that think putting Uncharted 1-3 on an iPad with touch controls would add to their experience but it doesn't make them right.
Okay, now you're talking about porting it to other platforms. That would make sense if I was saying Journey should be on the Gameboy Advance.
What? No, the fact that it's a different platform is completely irrelevant. The point was that changing those parts of Uncharted 1-3 would make them different games, just like adding matchmaking would make Journey a different game.
No, you haven't said anything about the game other than to constantly complain about the lack of friend co-op.
Well, it's pretty much you against the world with your opinion on the "wasted opportunity". Sorry that you feel that way.
Ya know, it's really a minor gripe, all things considered. My biggest gripe is that you're not even allowed to discuss your gripes with this kind of game. We have threads on Zelda, Metal Gear, and Mass Effect, and people discuss the good and the bad of the games. No one dismisses your criticism with "Just accept Bioware's vision 100% as it is or piss off and die".
It's really my mistake for thinking that a thread about an artistic game made by a relatively small team would actually be a discussion rather than a circlejerk about how awesome and perfect it is. I actually kinda like the fucking game. It's a shame I'll never get to actually talk about it here.
Discussion? What have you discussed? All you've done is whine about one of the games best features (before you'd even bought or played it) and then whine about the responses. Why you thought you'd get a positive response once you started talking about "artsy game fans not tolerating criticism", I have no idea. Newsflash, trying to group people that don't agree with you is not suddenly going to make them change their mind, it's probably going to annoy them instead. Newsflash number 2, people don't like it when you shit on features they think are great for any game, especially when you haven't even played it and your criticism is essentially "I don't wanna play by their rules!". Go into any one of those other threads and do the same thing, I'm sure you'd be a hit.
Not all games are for all people? I don't like adventure games, I don't blame the developers for that. It's not a lack of something in those games, it's just my preferences.
Like I've already said a few times, I actually like the game. The game IS for me. I just don't think the game is perfect, which is apparently, an invalid opinion.
Discussion? What have you discussed? All you've done is whine about one of the games best features (before you'd even bought or played it) and then whine about the responses.
The co-op thing is really a minor gripe. There are a lot of aspects of the game I would like to discuss, but I don't see the point in bringing them up because any discussion other than "this game is breathtaking" is met with derision. That I failed to live up to the standards of the game, when it's supposed to be the other way around.
What pisses me off the most is that I like the game. If I played it, and it simply sucked, I wouldn't want to talk about it at all.
Okay, instead of arguing (for pages and pages) that you aren't allowed to argue if you don't agree with everyone else (which is a self fulfilling prophesy if you approach the thread with that in mind before giving it a chance, by the way), I wish to gush about the game.
I love this game. This, like Limbo before it (which I feel is very similar, short but an experience like none I've had before), is going to be very high on my GotY list come December. VERY high.
Played through and beat it last night and the multiplayer experience was stunning and unlike anything I have ever played before. It claims I played with 7 people, but I was sure it was 4. I think the other three were probably ones I passed without noticing.
The most amazing thing is the communication. I had one player I went through the majority of the middle of the game with and by the time he had to leave, we had, without any help, developed a fully understandable language to communicate with just the different tones of singing. Heck, when he had to log off, he stopped me with a call and we had a conversation.
"Wait. I have to go."
"Oh, okay. Thanks for the great times."
"Yeah, good game and good luck."
"Good luck to you as well."
"Bye."
"Bye."
It was completely understandable and unmistakable, all through tones and inflections. It was an amazing feeling, as was our Journey (don't read unless you've experienced it, as that feeling of discovery is the best part):
We went through the entire underground underwater sections together. Every time we'd come to a jaw-dropping vista we'd both stop, share a high-mid-range tone "Wow" before moving on. When we first ran into the enemy "dragons", we each sounded a mid-low tone "Shit!" as we made a mad dash to cover. I was caught first, sent flying before my partner ran to my side, making sure I was okay. We ended up getting split up after that, ducking through the pillars on each side, singing out warnings as we saw the spotlight coming for the other one. When we finally made it through that section, the amazing slide/chase feeling tight and intense before making it to safety, dancing around with each other and singing for joy after we did.
The climb after went well, each of us calling out to the other as we spotted glyphs and helping each other figure out how to get any tricky ones. When we reach ed the top and had the aforementioned conversation, which led to my trusted partner jumping off the platform and falling out of view, my heart sank, looking out at the frozen wastes I now had to drudge through. Alone.
I was alone until I reached the wide open field with the swooping dragons. I met my partner for the rest of the way there when I saw a dragon dive in the distance and my new companion came flying through the air, rolling through the snow until they came to a stop at my feet. We didn't communicate much, our scarves nearly gone already, our voices weak from the wind and cold, but we made it in the end.
we had, without any help, developed a fully understandable language to communicate with just the different tones of singing. Heck, when he had to log off, he stopped me with a call and we had a conversation.
But dude, not being able to communicate is one of the game's core features. You circumvented the creator's holy intentions and played the game wrong and you should be ashamed.
For the guy shouting "I can't have any meaningful discussion about this game!", you seem to be the only guy desperately trying not to have any meaningful discussion about this game.
EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
I think the best bet is to just stop responding to Dirty and ignore him if he's just gonna keep going on about how he can't have a discussion and then not actually attempt to have a discussion.
Circle button. Holding it down for different lengths change the tone and volume. Stringing together taps or presses "sings" different patterns. It's very intuitive once you try a few bars/note combos.
Hello, for instance, seems to be universally two quick "chirps" (so *taptap* on circle when you're close by).
I think Dirty does have a point about games like this, because this is exactly how I felt when I didn't slobber all over the cocks of Flower, Braid and Limbo.
And he's attempting to have a discussion by saying what he thinks would make the game better in his eyes and, as he predicted, people are telling him "No, you're wrong."
Do I love the anonymous co-op? Absolutely. It would be cool if they have you co-op with friends, say, after you beat it however.
I think Dirty does have a point about games like this, because this is exactly how I felt when I didn't slobber all over the cocks of Flower, Braid and Limbo.
And he's attempting to have a discussion by saying what he thinks would make the game better in his eyes and, as he predicted, people are telling him "No, you're wrong."
Do I love the anonymous co-op? Absolutely. It would be cool if they have you co-op with friends, say, after you beat it however.
No, he's not having a discussion, he's going "This game would be better if it had it!!!" and not explaining why. Everyone is saying, "No, trust us, it's better sans." and actually explaining why. He went into the game deadset on not enjoying the lack of voice chat and forced random co-op, so of course he's going to continue with his mindset on the way out.
I think Dirty does have a point about games like this, because this is exactly how I felt when I didn't slobber all over the cocks of Flower, Braid and Limbo.
And he's attempting to have a discussion by saying what he thinks would make the game better in his eyes and, as he predicted, people are telling him "No, you're wrong."
Do I love the anonymous co-op? Absolutely. It would be cool if they have you co-op with friends, say, after you beat it however.
Yeah, like Esh said, it's less his argument that's the problem and more the way he's going about arguing it.
I thought Flower was "okay", HATED Braid with an unholy passion, though absolutely loved Limbo, but this isn't about "You can't disparage 'artistic' games". It's that if you want to attack something you have to do so in a manner that is deeper than "I didn't like this feature!" without a compelling argument other than "I wanted something else" when faced with opposition.
Starting the argument before playing the game is also a mark against, as it shows you have pre-formed biases and are not approaching it with an open mind. Playing the "I'm the victim! I can't state my opinion because it is contrary to everyone else's! I'm being repressed!" when no one is doing anything of the sort is also a fast way, in my eyes, to have your argument/opinion ignored.
I think Dirty does have a point about games like this, because this is exactly how I felt when I didn't slobber all over the cocks of Flower, Braid and Limbo.
And he's attempting to have a discussion by saying what he thinks would make the game better in his eyes and, as he predicted, people are telling him "No, you're wrong."
Exactly. I remember the discussion on Limbo was pretty much limited to personal interpretations of the story, and trying to discuss the gameplay mechanics was missing the point.
No, he's not having a discussion, he's going "This game would be better if it had it!!!" and not explaining why. Everyone is saying, "No, trust us, it's better sans." and actually explaining why.
I didn't necessarily said the game would be better. I said I would be more inclined to enjoy it. Not explaining why? I did explain why. You just didn't like my reason. I don't really see how "We think it's fine without" is somehow more of an explanation than "I'd like to try it with".
They could have easily buried the invite option where most people wouldn't have noticed it (like the friend options in the XMB), and disabled voice for random encounters. Then I'd get to explore the world with my friends, and you get your "superior" experience. One doesn't have to detract from the other. I don't understand the argument for the end user having fewer options. I think gamers should have more options. More ways to interact with the games they enjoy.
He went into the game deadset on not enjoying the lack of voice chat and forced random co-op, so of course he's going to continue with his mindset on the way out.
This is really unfair. I have a pretty open mind, and my opinions have been changed before (I played the Mass Effect 2 demo expecting very little, as I didn't really get into ME1, but the demo changed my mind). You didn't ask me what I thought of the co-op after you found out I actually played the game, but that didn't stop you from assuming I still had a negative opinion on it.
Dirty on
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I think if a game is supposed to be viewed as artistic, it's even more incumbent on the developer to make something with quantifiable features and design.
Mainly, though, I do see a rising hostility to the concept of artistry in general, as though the people who are legitimately trying for it aren't selling games, per se, but somehow instead selling Fuck You Tickets to gamers. According to their detractors.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
I think Dirty does have a point about games like this, because this is exactly how I felt when I didn't slobber all over the cocks of Flower, Braid and Limbo.
And he's attempting to have a discussion by saying what he thinks would make the game better in his eyes and, as he predicted, people are telling him "No, you're wrong."
Exactly. I remember the discussion on Limbo was pretty much limited to personal interpretations of the story, and trying to discuss the gameplay mechanics was missing the point.
No, he's not having a discussion, he's going "This game would be better if it had it!!!" and not explaining why. Everyone is saying, "No, trust us, it's better sans." and actually explaining why.
I didn't necessarily said the game would be better. I said I would be more inclined to enjoy it. Not explaining why? I did explain why. You just didn't like my reason. I don't really see how "We think it's fine without" is somehow more of an explanation than "I'd like to try it with".
They could have easily buried the invite option where most people wouldn't have noticed it (like the friend options in the XMB), and disabled voice for random encounters. Then I'd get to explore the world with my friends, and you get your "superior" experience. One doesn't have to detract from the other. I don't understand the argument for the end user having fewer options. I think gamers should have more options. More ways to interact with the games they enjoy.
He went into the game deadset on not enjoying the lack of voice chat and forced random co-op, so of course he's going to continue with his mindset on the way out.
This is really unfair. I have a pretty open mind, and my opinions have been changed before (I played the Mass Effect 2 demo expecting very little, as I didn't really get into ME1, but the demo changed my mind). You didn't ask me what I thought of the co-op after you found out I actually played the game, but that didn't stop you from assuming I still had a negative opinion on it.
They could have, sure, but they didn't. Why not? Because it's not what they wanted and people would have gone in playing it that way first, thus depriving them of the experience that the developer meant for it to be. The game is meant to be experienced with strangers. We keep trying to explain that to you but you won't listen. This is a personal project which they hope that other people will enjoy, it's not Modern Warfare. It's their vision. Their vision does not include you getting to choose who you explore with. If you think that somehow detracts from the game, that's your issue and we get that you don't like it. Your point is made. We understand. We just don't agree and enjoy as it is. You don't need to keep harping about it.
And I didn't need to ask you what you thought because you came right out of the gate with "These other players might as well be crappy AI" and then said nothing else. I think that pretty much sums it up right there. Like other people have stated already, you pretty much fubar'd yourself when you started dissing the game before even playing it.
Oh, and if a company catered to the needs of every person who wanted to enjoy a game, nothing would get done.
EDIT: Something is messing these quote trees up...
I fixed the quote tree issue. Had an unnecessary quote tag hanging.
I keep seeing references to the creator's vision and the creator's intent. The companies that work on big budget games have vision and intent as well, but we criticize their decisions all the time. But when it's a small team, that vision magically becomes infallible.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
I fixed the quote tree issue. Had an unnecessary quote tag hanging.
I keep seeing references to the creator's vision and the creator's intent. The companies that work on big budget games have vision and intent as well, but we criticize their decisions all the time. But when it's a small team, that vision magically becomes infallible.
There's a huge difference between a game like Call Of Duty and what the developers need to do for that to appease their rabid fanbase, and a project like Journey. HUGE. One is like making commercial art, the other is a painting you want to hang in a gallery.
The thing is, you're not criticizing and you're not making a valid point as to why it would be better to have these features. It's just "I want this and they didn't put it in so I'm going to complain, complain, and complain some more about it."
That analogy would work if Journey was something on display in a museum where I could experience it freely. However, it's a commercial product., therefore I'm going to compare it to other commercial products.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
That analogy would work if Journey was something on display in a museum where I could experience it freely. However, it's a commercial product., therefore I'm going to compare it to other commercial products.
The analogy works fine. Both are purchasable products.
So anyways. I think this game was a step in the right direction for TGC. Flower could barely be qualified as interactive, and Journey came much closer to making me feel like I was actually doing something. It still felt like I was just on a really scenic ride for the most part, but I at least felt like I had some control.
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One of the most unique gaming experiences I've ever had. Incredible, especially since it sounded like Jenova Chen was full of crap but hot damn did he and their team pull it off.
-Louis C.K.
Great game all round though. Dat soundtrack. Dat everything.
And also, I came very close to playing through the game three straight times. I want to be your companion, everyone's companion.
FF14: ARR
journey is stunning
The only option I have is New Journey.
I think Journey is pretty much perfect.
I was pretty much ready to hate on this game, and in the first few minutes, I was thinking that would be the case. It controlled like a dream and looked gorgeous, but your character just seemed to move so damn slow and having to traverse the environment to light up ribbons...the thought that crossed my mind was "ugh."
Then I found a companion! We were zipping around, recharging each others' jumps, building bridges and taking on the world together. There was no obnoxious floating Gamertag/PSN ID to let me know who they were. And there's something special about the puzzle design of this game, combined with the beautiful animation; compare it to any other co-op game I've played where there are puzzles involved, where you can see your co-op partner's in-game avatar "thinking" about the solution and going through different motions to try and solve the puzzles, which usually ends up with me or them or both of us being frustrated. It's hard to articulate but it feels very...mechanical. Here, there were a few moments where you could tell we were both thinking the same thing, sometimes correct and sometimes not, but it never felt unnatural or like we were struggling against the game.
Then came the part where
My companion just stood there at the beginning of that section. I stood around for a second, waited for him. He went into meditation. I sat down right next to him, because I felt attached to some co-op player I didn't know. I didn't want to continue forward without him. And then he disintegrated! And I was in a strange new place! I pushed forward and eventually, a little bit ahead in the distance, I saw a speck that turned out to be another companion. We finished the game together. And what a hell of an ending sequence this game has.
So kudos to thatgamecompany, in many respects. They made an artsy game without making it too abstract just for the sake of it. They made an actual game this time around. They made one of the best-looking titles on the system. They made the first game where I feel co-op (and I agree with everyone that not knowing who it is makes it better) is necessary to the experience, instead of just a bad excuse to not be saddled with some lame AI partner. They made a beautiful game that's a delight to control and play, and that actually has some emotional resonance while not uttering a single word. I am deeply impressed with this game.
One con, however, and it's as I said above - co-op is necessary to this in my eyes. I don't think it would be half the game taken as a single player experience. I feel bad for anyone that approaches it that way, honestly, but to each their own.
mind you, that term is profoundly innapropriate for this game
You cooperate with them
But both of my Journey guys definitely cooperated with me pretty well
At the same time I can't justify coming up with some new gaming term just for the mode of multiplayer that is in this game. Traditionally there are two kinds of multiplayer; competitive and co-op. This is co-op.
Okay, now you're talking about porting it to other platforms. That would make sense if I was saying Journey should be on the Gameboy Advance.
Ya know, it's really a minor gripe, all things considered. My biggest gripe is that you're not even allowed to discuss your gripes with this kind of game. We have threads on Zelda, Metal Gear, and Mass Effect, and people discuss the good and the bad of the games. No one dismisses your criticism with "Just accept Bioware's vision 100% as it is or piss off and die".
It's really my mistake for thinking that a thread about an artistic game made by a relatively small team would actually be a discussion rather than a circlejerk about how awesome and perfect it is. I actually kinda like the fucking game. It's a shame I'll never get to actually talk about it here.
They have managed to create what feels to me like an interactive feature film.
From my playthrough:
An hour and a half game managed to make me feel a connection with someone who I knew nothing about save for their actions expressed through an avatar. That's pretty special.
Edit: Also there's some soundtrack excerpts here, like 7 tracks worth.
What you aren't getting is that we would welcome discussion with someone who had played the damn game. You'd at least be able to make a legit complaint then if you still felt it was lacking.
Instead you are just whining about a perceived lack. And we are telling you, as people who have played the game, that we think it's fine the way it is.
Ignore him. If you look over the past discussions, Dirty ignores any attempts to have a valid discussion and prefers to express a world where we only disprove of him. I'm ready to indulge him that now, but will no longer actively do so.
What you aren't getting is that I did play the damn game. And even after I played it, there was that dismissive attitude ("Well I guess the game isn't for you." "Your opinion is in the minority, so it is wrong").
Not all games are for all people? I don't like adventure games, I don't blame the developers for that. It's not a lack of something in those games, it's just my preferences.
I think people are saying you are wrong because there isn't a missing feature. Buddy co-op and voice chat were never advertised as part of the product. Now, you think the game lacks, but that's your opinion. It's not something actually wrong with the game, like a bug or something. That's all you. And if people don't seem to be taking you seriously it was because you were climbing up onto that same cross before even trying the game. People tend not to take silly geese seriously.
Discussion? What have you discussed? All you've done is whine about one of the games best features (before you'd even bought or played it) and then whine about the responses. Why you thought you'd get a positive response once you started talking about "artsy game fans not tolerating criticism", I have no idea. Newsflash, trying to group people that don't agree with you is not suddenly going to make them change their mind, it's probably going to annoy them instead. Newsflash number 2, people don't like it when you shit on features they think are great for any game, especially when you haven't even played it and your criticism is essentially "I don't wanna play by their rules!". Go into any one of those other threads and do the same thing, I'm sure you'd be a hit.
Like I've already said a few times, I actually like the game. The game IS for me. I just don't think the game is perfect, which is apparently, an invalid opinion.
you're wrong because you've utterly misread its purpose
The co-op thing is really a minor gripe. There are a lot of aspects of the game I would like to discuss, but I don't see the point in bringing them up because any discussion other than "this game is breathtaking" is met with derision. That I failed to live up to the standards of the game, when it's supposed to be the other way around.
What pisses me off the most is that I like the game. If I played it, and it simply sucked, I wouldn't want to talk about it at all.
I love this game. This, like Limbo before it (which I feel is very similar, short but an experience like none I've had before), is going to be very high on my GotY list come December. VERY high.
Played through and beat it last night and the multiplayer experience was stunning and unlike anything I have ever played before. It claims I played with 7 people, but I was sure it was 4. I think the other three were probably ones I passed without noticing.
The most amazing thing is the communication. I had one player I went through the majority of the middle of the game with and by the time he had to leave, we had, without any help, developed a fully understandable language to communicate with just the different tones of singing. Heck, when he had to log off, he stopped me with a call and we had a conversation.
"Wait. I have to go."
"Oh, okay. Thanks for the great times."
"Yeah, good game and good luck."
"Good luck to you as well."
"Bye."
"Bye."
It was completely understandable and unmistakable, all through tones and inflections. It was an amazing feeling, as was our Journey (don't read unless you've experienced it, as that feeling of discovery is the best part):
The climb after went well, each of us calling out to the other as we spotted glyphs and helping each other figure out how to get any tricky ones. When we reach ed the top and had the aforementioned conversation, which led to my trusted partner jumping off the platform and falling out of view, my heart sank, looking out at the frozen wastes I now had to drudge through. Alone.
I was alone until I reached the wide open field with the swooping dragons. I met my partner for the rest of the way there when I saw a dragon dive in the distance and my new companion came flying through the air, rolling through the snow until they came to a stop at my feet. We didn't communicate much, our scarves nearly gone already, our voices weak from the wind and cold, but we made it in the end.
I can't wait to play it again.
But dude, not being able to communicate is one of the game's core features. You circumvented the creator's holy intentions and played the game wrong and you should be ashamed.
We get it.
Circle button. Holding it down for different lengths change the tone and volume. Stringing together taps or presses "sings" different patterns. It's very intuitive once you try a few bars/note combos.
Hello, for instance, seems to be universally two quick "chirps" (so *taptap* on circle when you're close by).
And he's attempting to have a discussion by saying what he thinks would make the game better in his eyes and, as he predicted, people are telling him "No, you're wrong."
Do I love the anonymous co-op? Absolutely. It would be cool if they have you co-op with friends, say, after you beat it however.
Determined people seemed to find a way round it there although I'm not sure if that was ever to the betterment of the game.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
No, he's not having a discussion, he's going "This game would be better if it had it!!!" and not explaining why. Everyone is saying, "No, trust us, it's better sans." and actually explaining why. He went into the game deadset on not enjoying the lack of voice chat and forced random co-op, so of course he's going to continue with his mindset on the way out.
Yeah, like Esh said, it's less his argument that's the problem and more the way he's going about arguing it.
I thought Flower was "okay", HATED Braid with an unholy passion, though absolutely loved Limbo, but this isn't about "You can't disparage 'artistic' games". It's that if you want to attack something you have to do so in a manner that is deeper than "I didn't like this feature!" without a compelling argument other than "I wanted something else" when faced with opposition.
Starting the argument before playing the game is also a mark against, as it shows you have pre-formed biases and are not approaching it with an open mind. Playing the "I'm the victim! I can't state my opinion because it is contrary to everyone else's! I'm being repressed!" when no one is doing anything of the sort is also a fast way, in my eyes, to have your argument/opinion ignored.
I didn't necessarily said the game would be better. I said I would be more inclined to enjoy it. Not explaining why? I did explain why. You just didn't like my reason. I don't really see how "We think it's fine without" is somehow more of an explanation than "I'd like to try it with".
They could have easily buried the invite option where most people wouldn't have noticed it (like the friend options in the XMB), and disabled voice for random encounters. Then I'd get to explore the world with my friends, and you get your "superior" experience. One doesn't have to detract from the other. I don't understand the argument for the end user having fewer options. I think gamers should have more options. More ways to interact with the games they enjoy.
This is really unfair. I have a pretty open mind, and my opinions have been changed before (I played the Mass Effect 2 demo expecting very little, as I didn't really get into ME1, but the demo changed my mind). You didn't ask me what I thought of the co-op after you found out I actually played the game, but that didn't stop you from assuming I still had a negative opinion on it.
Mainly, though, I do see a rising hostility to the concept of artistry in general, as though the people who are legitimately trying for it aren't selling games, per se, but somehow instead selling Fuck You Tickets to gamers. According to their detractors.
I keep seeing references to the creator's vision and the creator's intent. The companies that work on big budget games have vision and intent as well, but we criticize their decisions all the time. But when it's a small team, that vision magically becomes infallible.
There's a huge difference between a game like Call Of Duty and what the developers need to do for that to appease their rabid fanbase, and a project like Journey. HUGE. One is like making commercial art, the other is a painting you want to hang in a gallery.
The thing is, you're not criticizing and you're not making a valid point as to why it would be better to have these features. It's just "I want this and they didn't put it in so I'm going to complain, complain, and complain some more about it."
The analogy works fine. Both are purchasable products.