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Provisional [chat] (READ THE OP)

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Posts

  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    +1 to what Senjutsu says.

    I'm really interested in Ruby on Rails stuff, and Ruby in general because I really like the language. I hope I can work with Ruby stuff eventually.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • WashWash Sweet Christmas Registered User regular
    Harry Potter doesn't feel like fantasy. It's a story about a guy hanging out with his friends. They investigate shit, and there's a larger conflict, but the bulk of the series is just Harry spending time with his bffs.

    gi5h0gjqwti1.jpg
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Drez wrote:
    And I would call Rowling a "good writer" anyway. Is she the most academic writer? No. Does she overrely on adverbs? Holy fuck. But she created a world that engaged and continues to engage a majority of the people that come into contact with her books. At the end of the day, I think a writer's job is to (a) communicate and (b) engage and if you succeeded at both, then you are a good writer.

    the world is p interesting and some characters you like but I've never really liked her writing. She's not very good at it.

    ftOqU21.png
  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote:
    Gooey wrote:
    I am amused by the underlying assumption by the purveyors of bitcoin people that the currency is better because it exists outside the influence of the governmental sphere

    one day some currency trader is going to make a fucking mint on the stuff (no pun intended) by manipulating the bitcoin market specifically because there is no governmental regulation.

    I would be surprised if there isn't already someone out there at an I-bank dreaming up a scheme right now

    DDoS two mid-size exchanges. Start spreading a rumor they've been hacked. Watch price drop like the last time it happened. Buy low. Wait two weeks. Set up a fake Amazon PR announcement that they will be accepting bitcoin due the the sales tax issue. Sell high.

    I was thinking this same sort of thing, haha. Even better if you can get an options market going.

    919UOwT.png
  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    Gooey wrote:

    Hahahaha someone needs to tell us that we are never going to pay us back.

    1568lg9.jpg
    steam ID: stevemarks44
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Eddy wrote:
    As an author of a NYT #1 bestseller

    /learnedhand

    huh?

  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Senjutsu wrote:
    Organichu wrote:
    @Senjutsu

    Thanks!

    And while I can't say definitively that I can 'solve problems using recursion', I can definitely accomplish the other simple litmus tests on that blog (in C++, at least).

    I appreciate all the advice.

    Recursion tends to be one of the last fundamentals that falls into place as you struggle over the learning hump. I can vividly remember when it clicked for me, and I'd been programming for around a year and a half at that point.

    @Senjutsu Do you know of a decently friendly coding forum? I'd like to strike up a dialog with an employed coder who didn't go the BSc route.

    Organichu on
  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    As a single black female working in retail

    “Even as a gengar she was lovely.” ― Ovid, Metamorphoses
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Drez: Fair enough. To be fair, I also only read the first three books, and it's my understanding that she grows as a writer over the course of the series as well.

    Anyway, my dinner is reading so, omnomnomnom time.

    What I like about Rowling, personally, is that I think she is quite gifted at tonal shifting...which a lot of writers have difficulty with.

    You should pick up the fourth and fifth books to see what I mean.

  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Abdhyius wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    And I would call Rowling a "good writer" anyway. Is she the most academic writer? No. Does she overrely on adverbs? Holy fuck. But she created a world that engaged and continues to engage a majority of the people that come into contact with her books. At the end of the day, I think a writer's job is to (a) communicate and (b) engage and if you succeeded at both, then you are a good writer.

    the world is p interesting and some characters you like but I've never really liked her writing. She's not very good at it.

    I think there is definitely a difference between a good storyteller and a good writer, though those things are mutually exclusive.

    I have only picked up a bit of Harry Potter, but from what I've read there's no doubt that Rowling can tell a good story. But I don't think she's all that proficient a writer.

    stevemarks44 on
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    steam ID: stevemarks44
  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    Eddy wrote:
    As a single black female working in retail

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    what is fantasy anyway as a genre?

    If both LOTR and harry potter fit in it then I'd say it's just a descriptor for the setting

    ftOqU21.png
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Senjutsu wrote:
    Recursion tends to be one of the last fundamentals that falls into place as you struggle over the learning hump. I can vividly remember when it clicked for me, and I'd been programming for around a year and a half at that point.

    It clicked for me when I wrote a PHP doodad that was a simple link database with nested categories, and wanted to delete an entire category and all its subcategories (way before I knew about cascade and stuff).

    It was a total whoa moment when I realized how it worked.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    And I would call Rowling a "good writer" anyway. Is she the most academic writer? No. Does she overrely on adverbs? Holy fuck. But she created a world that engaged and continues to engage a majority of the people that come into contact with her books. At the end of the day, I think a writer's job is to (a) communicate and (b) engage and if you succeeded at both, then you are a good writer.

    the world is p interesting and some characters you like but I've never really liked her writing. She's not very good at it.

    I think there is definitely a difference between a good storyteller and a good writer, though those things are mutually exclusive.

    I have only picked up a bit of Harry Potter, but from what I've read there's no doubt that Rowling can tell a good story. But I don't think she's all that proficient a writer.

    Okay, fair enough. I can buy that. I would definitely say that about Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman (Dragonlance series). The stories and characters are pretty good, but the writing itself is some of the worst shit ever.

  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Organichu wrote:
    Eddy wrote:
    As a single black female working in retail

    bullshit



    the girl in this video is absurdly hot

    and look at dem titties

    Eddy on
    “Even as a gengar she was lovely.” ― Ovid, Metamorphoses
  • jakobaggerjakobagger LO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTORED Registered User regular
    And now, torpor. I shall rise again when the stars are right.

    bgg / steam / goodreads / Bnet: Bygasto#2537
  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    Trade schools have a lot of traps that make me wary of recommending them. I know it’s the ‘in’ thing recently to suggest them, but they tend to have very little room for moving up unless you want to start your own business, offer very little in regards to transferable skills, and you’d better hope you enjoy what you do (which is rarely super exciting) – because that’s all you’re going to be doing if you take that career route. At least as long as you want to maintain the lifestyle you’ve become accustomed to without starting from the bottom rung somewhere else.

    And if the poles take over the skill you've chosen and do better work for half the price, your wage is going to drop.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Echo wrote:
    Senjutsu wrote:
    Recursion tends to be one of the last fundamentals that falls into place as you struggle over the learning hump. I can vividly remember when it clicked for me, and I'd been programming for around a year and a half at that point.

    It clicked for me when I wrote a PHP doodad that was a simple link database with nested categories, and wanted to delete an entire category and all its subcategories (way before I knew about cascade and stuff).

    It was a total whoa moment when I realized how it worked.

    I don't understand why recursion is so difficult for so many people. I feel like the entirety of my existence is recursive.

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Drez wrote:
    Abdhyius wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    And I would call Rowling a "good writer" anyway. Is she the most academic writer? No. Does she overrely on adverbs? Holy fuck. But she created a world that engaged and continues to engage a majority of the people that come into contact with her books. At the end of the day, I think a writer's job is to (a) communicate and (b) engage and if you succeeded at both, then you are a good writer.

    the world is p interesting and some characters you like but I've never really liked her writing. She's not very good at it.

    I think there is definitely a difference between a good storyteller and a good writer, though those things are mutually exclusive.

    I have only picked up a bit of Harry Potter, but from what I've read there's no doubt that Rowling can tell a good story. But I don't think she's all that proficient a writer.

    Okay, fair enough. I can buy that. I would definitely say that about Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman (Dragonlance series). The stories and characters are pretty good, but the writing itself is some of the worst shit ever.

    I like that distinction.

    because a good story and good writing does not need the other at all.

    ftOqU21.png
  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    It's like ASOIAF

    aka GRRM's personal food blog

    “Even as a gengar she was lovely.” ― Ovid, Metamorphoses
  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    By the way, I won't edit because its already been quoted, but I meant to say "aren't mutually exclusive". there are plenty of good writers and storytellers (early Stephen King springs to mind).

    I think that is what fantasy as a bookstore genre suffers from the most. You have a bunch of really interesting stories told by incompetent writers.

    1568lg9.jpg
    steam ID: stevemarks44
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    Abdhyius wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    And I would call Rowling a "good writer" anyway. Is she the most academic writer? No. Does she overrely on adverbs? Holy fuck. But she created a world that engaged and continues to engage a majority of the people that come into contact with her books. At the end of the day, I think a writer's job is to (a) communicate and (b) engage and if you succeeded at both, then you are a good writer.

    the world is p interesting and some characters you like but I've never really liked her writing. She's not very good at it.

    I think there is definitely a difference between a good storyteller and a good writer, though those things are mutually exclusive.

    I have only picked up a bit of Harry Potter, but from what I've read there's no doubt that Rowling can tell a good story. But I don't think she's all that proficient a writer.

    Okay, fair enough. I can buy that. I would definitely say that about Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman (Dragonlance series). The stories and characters are pretty good, but the writing itself is some of the worst shit ever.

    I like that distinction.

    because a good story and good writing does not need the other at all.

    For instance:
    John Stalvern waited. The lights above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There were demons in the base. He didn't see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Cernel Joson were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.
    John was a space marine for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the spaceships and he said to dad "I want to be on the ships daddy."
    Dad said "No! You will BE KILL BY DEMONS"
    There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the space station base of the UAC he knew there were demons.
    "This is Joson" the radio crackered. "You must fight the demons!"
    So John gotted his palsma rifle and blew up the wall.
    "HE GOING TO KILL US" said the demons
    "I will shoot at him" said the cyberdemon and he fired the rocket missiles. John plasmaed at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill.
    "No! I must kill the demons" he shouted
    The radio said "No, John. You are the demons"
    And then John was a zombie.

    Great story and characters. But terrible writing.

    :rotate:

  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote:
    what is fantasy anyway as a genre?

    If both LOTR and harry potter fit in it then I'd say it's just a descriptor for the setting

    best description I can think of is:

    a type of fiction that includes aspects that directly break the laws of reality or is far removed from human experience and history.

    hello chat.

  • SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote:
    Senjutsu wrote:
    Organichu wrote:
    @Senjutsu

    Thanks!

    And while I can't say definitively that I can 'solve problems using recursion', I can definitely accomplish the other simple litmus tests on that blog (in C++, at least).

    I appreciate all the advice.

    Recursion tends to be one of the last fundamentals that falls into place as you struggle over the learning hump. I can vividly remember when it clicked for me, and I'd been programming for around a year and a half at that point.

    @Senjutsu Do you know of a decently friendly coding forum? I'd like to strike up a dialog with an employed coder who didn't go the BSc route.

    Hacker news, linked in my other post, has a large contingent of people who either skipped college or now believe that financially speaking it is no longer worth it (see, for example: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1683765). You could also try /r/programming or /r/askreddit on Reddit.

    I don't know of many good programming forums that are actually forums. The bulk of the community seems to prefer blogs and news aggregators like HN and Reddit.

    The thing about not going is that, if you find that the practical route isn't working out, it's easy to change course and get that BSc, and having actually brushed your programming skills up before hand, you'll be ahead of classmates.

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    I'd say Martin is a more proficient writer than Rowling, but I'd say he has a terrible sense of self-editing. And the more popular he gets, the less exterior editing he is going to be subjected to.

    Like, ADwD was good, but holy shit that book was bloated.

    1568lg9.jpg
    steam ID: stevemarks44
  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck (♡°◡°) Registered User regular
    Leitner wrote:
    Trade schools have a lot of traps that make me wary of recommending them. I know it’s the ‘in’ thing recently to suggest them, but they tend to have very little room for moving up unless you want to start your own business, offer very little in regards to transferable skills, and you’d better hope you enjoy what you do (which is rarely super exciting) – because that’s all you’re going to be doing if you take that career route. At least as long as you want to maintain the lifestyle you’ve become accustomed to without starting from the bottom rung somewhere else.

    I feel like this is mostly true of 4-year degrees too

    if I want to start over in another field... welcome to the bottom of the totem pole!

  • WashWash Sweet Christmas Registered User regular
    If given the choice between good story and good writing, good story wins.

    gi5h0gjqwti1.jpg
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Dunadan019 wrote:
    Abdhyius wrote:
    what is fantasy anyway as a genre?

    If both LOTR and harry potter fit in it then I'd say it's just a descriptor for the setting

    best description I can think of is:

    a type of fiction that includes aspects that directly break the laws of reality or is far removed from human experience and history.

    hello chat.

    Pretty good descriptor

    but it makes the genre too wide to be useful

    ftOqU21.png
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    is "good story" in this sense plot

    because plot isn't terribly important

    Elendil on
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Wash wrote:
    If given the choice between good story and good writing, good story wins.

    I will however dig the shit out of some good writing where the story is basically irrelevant or nonexistant

    ftOqU21.png
  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    Senjutsu wrote:
    Organichu wrote:
    Senjutsu wrote:
    Organichu wrote:
    @Senjutsu

    Thanks!

    And while I can't say definitively that I can 'solve problems using recursion', I can definitely accomplish the other simple litmus tests on that blog (in C++, at least).

    I appreciate all the advice.

    Recursion tends to be one of the last fundamentals that falls into place as you struggle over the learning hump. I can vividly remember when it clicked for me, and I'd been programming for around a year and a half at that point.

    @Senjutsu Do you know of a decently friendly coding forum? I'd like to strike up a dialog with an employed coder who didn't go the BSc route.

    Hacker news, linked in my other post, has a large contingent of people who either skipped college or now believe that financially speaking it is no longer worth it (see, for example: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1683765). You could also try /r/programming or /r/askreddit on Reddit.

    I don't know of many good programming forums that are actually forums. The bulk of the community seems to prefer blogs and news aggregators like HN and Reddit.

    The thing about not going is that, if you find that the practical route isn't working out, it's easy to change course and get that BSc, and having actually brushed your programming skills up before hand, you'll be ahead of classmates.

    Thanks a bunch!

  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    Since writers have become more skilled and in addition have a much more intelligent audience to please, genre distinctions are almost moot now.

    Every story worth reading is comprised of no less than two-genres these days.

    1568lg9.jpg
    steam ID: stevemarks44
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Elendil wrote:
    is "good story" in this sense plot

    because plot isn't terribly important

    sort of, yeah

    EDIT: We're also throwing characters in there, I think?

    Abdhyius on
    ftOqU21.png
  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote:
    Dunadan019 wrote:
    Abdhyius wrote:
    what is fantasy anyway as a genre?

    If both LOTR and harry potter fit in it then I'd say it's just a descriptor for the setting

    best description I can think of is:

    a type of fiction that includes aspects that directly break the laws of reality or is far removed from human experience and history.

    hello chat.

    Pretty good descriptor

    but it makes the genre too wide to be useful

    It probably is.

    god I'm tired. traveling just saps you.

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Since writers have become more skilled and in addition have a much more intelligent audience to please, genre distinctions are almost moot now.

    Every story worth reading is comprised of no less than two-genres these days.

    what?

    ftOqU21.png
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    wait, writers are more skilled?

    more skilled than what, exactly?

    fuck gendered marketing
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    And now, bed + book.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    Elendil wrote:
    is "good story" in this sense plot

    because plot isn't terribly important

    No. Good story is the implication that what is happening, what has happened, or what is being examined is engaging, interesting or thought provoking.

    It's so terribly cliched now but Hemingway's "shortest story" is a great example of this:

    "For sale: baby shoes, never worn."

    That is pretty standard writing but a great story.

    1568lg9.jpg
    steam ID: stevemarks44
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote:
    wait, writers are more skilled?

    more skilled than what, exactly?

    before, I guess?

    also, we more intelligent now?

    ftOqU21.png
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Elldren wrote:
    wait, writers are more skilled?

    more skilled than what, exactly?

    They didn't invent punctuation until the late 50s.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
This discussion has been closed.