DoW1 still has a bunch of micro to do well, I think, from juggling your commander units, loads and loads of per-squad abilities, reinforcements, and all that other stuff. DoW2 is pretty stripped down and bare in a lot of regards. I think Starcraft beats them both in extreme micro-ing, if only because of the huge metagame that had spawned.
Really, the least micro-intensive game I can think of is probably the Supreme Commander games, where sending hundreds of units at a time into a meat grinder isn't necessarily a faulty tactic.
And in Supreme Commander you can use two screens which is, like... the future
I also like that you need to use combined air, land, and sea (if there is water) units to be effective. Oh, and the experimental units are awesome too.
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RoshinMy backlog can be seen from spaceSwedenRegistered Userregular
QTEs are only bad when they're shoehorned poorly into games in such a way that it is not obvious they are going to occur or what you're supposed to do beforehand, creating a forced artificial "difficulty" which only stems from not explaining the rules of the game to you beforehand.
If the experience is built around them, such as Shenmue or Heavy Rain, there is absolutely nothing wrong with them.
My biggest problem with them is the "ZOMG!! MASH THIS BUTTON AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!---- Oh, look.. you died because you couldn't mash the button fast enough". Fuck. Those. I'll take 100 hand cramping contortionist combinations over 1 button mashing sequence.
And sadly, JP has a lot those type mashing elements even in the first sequence, which concerns me about the rest of the game. I guess it's time to google artificial turbo buttons drivers.
DoW1 still has a bunch of micro to do well, I think, from juggling your commander units, loads and loads of per-squad abilities, reinforcements, and all that other stuff. DoW2 is pretty stripped down and bare in a lot of regards. I think Starcraft beats them both in extreme micro-ing, if only because of the huge metagame that had spawned.
Really, the least micro-intensive game I can think of is probably the Supreme Commander games, where sending hundreds of units at a time into a meat grinder isn't necessarily a faulty tactic.
And in Supreme Commander you can use two screens which is, like... the future
I also like that you need to use combined air, land, and sea (if there is water) units to be effective. Oh, and the experimental units are awesome too.
It's also still one of the only RTS series to really embrace the idea of allowing you to see the whole battlefield with "strategic zoom". You don't use a minimap because your entire screen can show you as much information as you need in the blink of an eye.
It's a shame, but I'm guessing these days that we're never really going to see a SupCom 3. SupCom 2 died out for various reasons, mostly because the franchise community rebelled against it over some valid, and a lot of just plain stupid reasons. Whatever the case, Gas Powered Games sold off the franchise rights to Square-Enix so it's pretty much their call if/when such a thing happens, and who develops it. Given the mediocre response to SupCom 2, I'm not seeing that as all that likely.
Getting back to DoW2: Yeah, technically it's a more "micro" oriented game than Starcraft 2 in the sense that the gameplay's all much more focused on and influenced by the in-the-field combat. Things like economy and base management take a back seat to the squad level tactics happening. In real terms though, despite being called micro focused, DoW2 has far less actual micromanagement than Starcraft 2 does. SC2 has a tonne of micromanagement tied to what they call the "macro" game, and personally I'd argue too much micromanagement, or at least too much pointless micromanagement instituted because that's what the fanbase of the game came to associate with "skill" in Starcraft ( the way queuing mechanics work are usually a good example of that).
High level players of Starcraft 2 you wouldn't be surprised to see having an APM of 200-300+. In game like Dow2, you'd be surprised if it hits over 90, it's just not that style of game where you're constantly have to split your focus between managing dozens of different things away from the combat, the combat is what you're focusing on and the game and interface is designed around that.
I cant even get out of the first room in Magicka. I got the green life spell, keep pushing the middle mouse button, it does a little cast thing of a green swirly around me, but the barrier wont go down and the game just tells me I need to cast the spell again.
I dont think this is for me.
Depending on which barrier you're talking about, I suspect you either:
a) Need to hit it with your sword (Shift+LMB) - this is a fairly low barrier
b) Hit it with the Earth element (which I think is mapped to Q?), hurling an earthy projectile at the barrier. You may need to do this 2-3 times.
If memory serves, you may need to 'charge' the earth projectiles for more damage before throwing them - the game tooltip should be wittering on about that, I seem to recall.
It's quite a fun game when you get into it (though it was sufficiently hard solo that I gave up). That said, don't try and play it on a laptop with only a trackpad - took forever to work out how to remap middle-mouse-button to something else (note: to remap controls you need to go alllll the way back to the main menu, which I always thought was a bit shoddy).
I don't think anyone was comparing it to competitive starcraft
Competitive Starcraft is just an extreme example. Even in the most casual play it's really obvious which game requires much more micromanagement, despite all the fans I've had tell me otherwise. Last time I brought this up in the Starcraft thread I was basically called an idiot for suggesting that SC2 had more micromanagement than Dawn of War 2, and that's largely because of the way that their community has defined what "micro" and "macro" mean.
And "idiot" is politely paraphrasing. In fairness, I was also misunderstanding what they meant by "Macro" at the time, but then I still feel even now that if you're talking about the amount of micromanagement in a game of Starcraft, yeah, what they term Macro is definitively a huge part of that.
No base building, just a limited amount of dudes, and loot.
It could almost be called a Diablo style game, it as far from an RTS RTS game you can get in the campaign. Unique levels, heavy on weapons and armor drops, an upgrade path for your guys based on stat points... also has a cop-op modw
I cant even get out of the first room in Magicka. I got the green life spell, keep pushing the middle mouse button, it does a little cast thing of a green swirly around me, but the barrier wont go down and the game just tells me I need to cast the spell again.
I dont think this is for me.
Depending on which barrier you're talking about, I suspect you either:
a) Need to hit it with your sword (Shift+LMB) - this is a fairly low barrier
b) Hit it with the Earth element (which I think is mapped to Q?), hurling an earthy projectile at the barrier. You may need to do this 2-3 times.
If memory serves, you may need to 'charge' the earth projectiles for more damage before throwing them - the game tooltip should be wittering on about that, I seem to recall.
It's quite a fun game when you get into it (though it was sufficiently hard solo that I gave up). That said, don't try and play it on a laptop with only a trackpad - took forever to work out how to remap middle-mouse-button to something else (note: to remap controls you need to go alllll the way back to the main menu, which I always thought was a bit shoddy).
I was talking about the multiplayer, and they knew that. Whilst it's fair to say that the SP campaign doesn't hew to conventional RTS mechanics and is actually closer to an ARPG, that's not what I was referring to. I mean when I talk about SC2's gameplay and reference things like APM and timing pushes, I don't think it's ambiguous that I'm talking about the multiplayer either. And in either case that segregation is necessary because in all honestly, the singleplayer campaigns of either game do little to prepare you for competitive multiplayer. As with most games, those are completely different beasts, even when a lot of the mechanics remain the same.
I don't think anyone was comparing it to competitive starcraft
Competitive Starcraft is just an extreme example. Even in the most casual play it's really obvious which game requires much more micromanagement, despite all the fans I've had tell me otherwise. Last time I brought this up in the Starcraft thread I was basically called an idiot for suggesting that SC2 had more micromanagement than Dawn of War 2, and that's largely because of the way that their community has defined what "micro" and "macro" mean.
And "idiot" is politely paraphrasing. In fairness, I was also misunderstanding what they meant by "Macro" at the time, but then I still feel even now that if you're talking about the amount of micromanagement in a game of Starcraft, yeah, what they term Macro is definitively a huge part of that.
Weirdos. SC2 requires more "micro" to build an army than DoW II does to manage a fight. In DoW II you can have as few as 3 or 4 people in a fight, and one of those might not have anything special to do, which means you'll only need to be controlling two things at once, plus capturing points around the map and sometimes building something. Worst case scenario you end up in two fights simultaneously or something. In Starcraft you've got to be constantly building/producing, expanding, upgrading, scouting, and skirmishing, and the actual fights take much more micro than DoW II because in a lot of cases you need to tell each individual unit to use its skill (like, tell all of your Infestors to fungal growth various positions), whereas in DoW II your people are grouped into squads and thus only need to use a skill once.
It was largely a misunderstanding stemming from how they define Macro v Micro. Because all the meta-game / base building stuff tends to get lumped in under "Macro", with the actual in-combat control of units being lumped under "micro". So when I said that Starcraft 2 was very micromanagement heavy, rage ensued with people telling me that almost all the other RTS's are far more "micro" heavy.
That and well, the guy who told me that DoW2 was an obvious example of a game with more Micro focus in the combat had never actually played it IIRC.
Whatever the case, the simplest way to put it is that Starcraft 2 requires you to be doing a LOT more clicking and button pressing at any one point than DoW2 does.
In case you classy gents haven't noticed you can pre-purchase Trine 2 and get some hats all up ins.
I'll be getting this for sure, probably two copies (one for me and one for the girlfriend, hopefully to get two sets of hats while I'm at it since she hates non-Portal FPSs), but am trying to remain strong these last few days until the sale presumably begins.
Since Trine 2 doesn't come out until Dec, hopefully that doesn't interfere with my hat acquisition.
Edit: Okay, I've tried Searching and I skimmed like 8 pages, but didn't notice immediately; wasn't there a post that had a "best of" list/package of Oblivion mods on hand?
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
My friends' gameplay stats: SR3 470hrs, Skyrim 92 hrs. That's all.
My friends' gameplay stats:
Saints Row 3, 404 hours.
Skyrim, 2272 hours. o_O
Whut? Has he been running Skyrim simultaneously on ten computers since it was released or something?
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
I have way less hours showing on the Skyrim side and about twice that on the SR3 side on my Steam, but it's still waaaaay on the side of Skyrim.
Somewhere I hope that I won't hate Skyrim as much as I hate Oblivion. I want a good fantasy game that delivers on that open world promise. But until then I'm happy to be getting down with my bad self over in Steelport.
My friends' gameplay stats: SR3 470hrs, Skyrim 92 hrs. That's all.
My friends' gameplay stats:
Saints Row 3, 404 hours.
Skyrim, 2272 hours. o_O
Whut? Has he been running Skyrim simultaneously on ten computers since it was released or something?
Friends. Plural. That is the Steam stats of the gameplay time for everybody in my friends list.
Just to satisfy the curiosity of someone who has paid no attention whatsoever to it...would someone mind explaining to me what Saints Row 3 is about?
Because I thought it was some kind of gangster game and now every time I hear about it, it's all hitting people with giant dildos and driving around blowing shit up in a tank and stuff like that. Is the appeal supposed to be just having a gangster game which is absurd and over the top as possible?
This is not a critcism, this is intended as an honest question, because all I know about the Saints Row franchise is that PA did a classic comic about the first one and that the second one was a mess until some enterprising member of this forum put together a great mod pack for it.
My friendlist is mostly made up of classy gents from this thread, so let's see....
Wait, how the hell do you check that stat?
Community Home main page, right hand column, down low.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
How to describe Saints Row... hmm.
Picture a GTA style sandbox game where you play your character from Evil Genius.
While there is "Gansta" stuff, it's buried. It's more like you are a mob boss at this point, reaching Bond Supervillain levels (with appropriate response!)
But more than anything, it is fun. It doesn't penalize you for doing insane stuff.
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Here. Kind of big slightly NSFW, and it's actually of a bug (I found things spawned this way, I swear!), but does this look like a gangsta game to you?
My friends' lifetime stats, just because this is interesting.
TF2: 23,827 hrs
Borderlands: 6341 hrs
L4D2: 4423 hrs
New Vegas: 3555 hrs
Bad Company 2: 3168 hrs
Mount & Blade - Warband: 2623 hrs
L4D: 2547 hrs
Mass Effect 2: 2497 hrs
Mass Effect: 2371 hrs
Civilization V: 2299 hrs
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Lord_SnotЖиву за выходныеAmerican ValhallaRegistered Userregular
Hey everyone, a guy called Brood just added me to his friends list. Not sure who he is, anyone have any idea? I see they're a friend of @iolo any ideas?
Also, my friends stats, again mainly made up of PA chaps and chapettes:
Skyrim: 771 Hours
SR3: 212 Hours
Killing Floor: 101 Hours
Dungeon Defenders: 52 Hours
Picture a GTA style sandbox game where you play your character from Evil Genius.
While there is "Gansta" stuff, it's buried. It's more like you are a mob boss at this point, reaching Bond Supervillain levels (with appropriate response!)
But more than anything, it is fun. It doesn't penalize you for doing insane stuff.
Yeah, Saints Row 3 builds on the story of Saints Row 2, where you play a psychopathic gang leader who rises to dominate a city and turn his syndicate into a corporate and media empire.
So Saints Row 3 is about the rise of a Super Villain to the global stage.
Things you can do in SR3. Get a sex change. Kill people with a giant sex toy. Kick everyone in the b alls (This is a word that was spontaneously coined in conversation with envoy. It's like balls but it's ALL the balls.). Play psychopath Barbie dress up (Not on the same level as SR2 with GotR but it's still good). Swoop down in your VTOL fighter jet straight out of Macross and annihilate entire gang operations in seconds.
I must say the ball kicking is incredibly satisfying. Every weapon has its very own ball kicking animation. I find myself changing up guns in combat just so I can change up the ball kicking. Because lots of people get kicked in fucking balls. All day. All night. Right in the fucking b alls.
Yay. Fixed the mouse issues I was having in a couple games by disabling enhance pointer precision. Now I can enjoy Gemini Rue!
In more disappointing news, I was unaware that Cities XL and Simcity 4 do not come with campaign modes. Now I don't know when I will really get around to playing them since there is no real "goal"
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Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
edited November 2011
Well, yeah. That's been the crux idea for the Sim- games since forever. There's a reason why, way back in the day, Maxis liked referring them to "software toys" versus "games."
No base building, just a limited amount of dudes, and loot.
It could almost be called a Diablo style game, it as far from an RTS RTS game you can get in the campaign. Unique levels, heavy on weapons and armor drops, an upgrade path for your guys based on stat points... also has a co-op mode
It's a strategy game and it's real time. Sounds like an RTS to me!
Top 5 lifetime hours:
TF2 4940
Civ 5 2027 (one friend accounts for over 1088 of these hours, and probably has 1500 hours at least in Civ4/Colonization)
Borderlands 1418
Warband 1202
BFBC2 1191
Witcher 2 is the most wanted game at 18 people, followed by Space Marine and Rage at 13 each.
488 hours of Skyrim and 102 hours of SR3 these past 2 weeks.
No base building, just a limited amount of dudes, and loot.
It could almost be called a Diablo style game, it as far from an RTS RTS game you can get in the campaign. Unique levels, heavy on weapons and armor drops, an upgrade path for your guys based on stat points... also has a co-op mode
It's a strategy game and it's real time. Sounds like an RTS to me!
It's more like Neverwinter Nights/Dragon Age. Just less talking and more killing.
Posts
I also like that you need to use combined air, land, and sea (if there is water) units to be effective. Oh, and the experimental units are awesome too.
Well, I did. Activation request and then an error message. I do regret buying it now.
That kind of bullshittery is classic Ubisoft. They're the worst.
And Stardock was always borderline bush league, but the Sins thing is really needlessly dumb.
My biggest problem with them is the "ZOMG!! MASH THIS BUTTON AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!---- Oh, look.. you died because you couldn't mash the button fast enough". Fuck. Those. I'll take 100 hand cramping contortionist combinations over 1 button mashing sequence.
And sadly, JP has a lot those type mashing elements even in the first sequence, which concerns me about the rest of the game. I guess it's time to google artificial turbo buttons drivers.
It's also still one of the only RTS series to really embrace the idea of allowing you to see the whole battlefield with "strategic zoom". You don't use a minimap because your entire screen can show you as much information as you need in the blink of an eye.
It's a shame, but I'm guessing these days that we're never really going to see a SupCom 3. SupCom 2 died out for various reasons, mostly because the franchise community rebelled against it over some valid, and a lot of just plain stupid reasons. Whatever the case, Gas Powered Games sold off the franchise rights to Square-Enix so it's pretty much their call if/when such a thing happens, and who develops it. Given the mediocre response to SupCom 2, I'm not seeing that as all that likely.
Getting back to DoW2: Yeah, technically it's a more "micro" oriented game than Starcraft 2 in the sense that the gameplay's all much more focused on and influenced by the in-the-field combat. Things like economy and base management take a back seat to the squad level tactics happening. In real terms though, despite being called micro focused, DoW2 has far less actual micromanagement than Starcraft 2 does. SC2 has a tonne of micromanagement tied to what they call the "macro" game, and personally I'd argue too much micromanagement, or at least too much pointless micromanagement instituted because that's what the fanbase of the game came to associate with "skill" in Starcraft ( the way queuing mechanics work are usually a good example of that).
High level players of Starcraft 2 you wouldn't be surprised to see having an APM of 200-300+. In game like Dow2, you'd be surprised if it hits over 90, it's just not that style of game where you're constantly have to split your focus between managing dozens of different things away from the combat, the combat is what you're focusing on and the game and interface is designed around that.
Depending on which barrier you're talking about, I suspect you either:
a) Need to hit it with your sword (Shift+LMB) - this is a fairly low barrier
b) Hit it with the Earth element (which I think is mapped to Q?), hurling an earthy projectile at the barrier. You may need to do this 2-3 times.
If memory serves, you may need to 'charge' the earth projectiles for more damage before throwing them - the game tooltip should be wittering on about that, I seem to recall.
It's quite a fun game when you get into it (though it was sufficiently hard solo that I gave up). That said, don't try and play it on a laptop with only a trackpad - took forever to work out how to remap middle-mouse-button to something else (note: to remap controls you need to go alllll the way back to the main menu, which I always thought was a bit shoddy).
Goodreads
SF&F Reviews blog
Competitive Starcraft is just an extreme example. Even in the most casual play it's really obvious which game requires much more micromanagement, despite all the fans I've had tell me otherwise. Last time I brought this up in the Starcraft thread I was basically called an idiot for suggesting that SC2 had more micromanagement than Dawn of War 2, and that's largely because of the way that their community has defined what "micro" and "macro" mean.
And "idiot" is politely paraphrasing. In fairness, I was also misunderstanding what they meant by "Macro" at the time, but then I still feel even now that if you're talking about the amount of micromanagement in a game of Starcraft, yeah, what they term Macro is definitively a huge part of that.
No base building, just a limited amount of dudes, and loot.
It could almost be called a Diablo style game, it as far from an RTS RTS game you can get in the campaign. Unique levels, heavy on weapons and armor drops, an upgrade path for your guys based on stat points... also has a cop-op modw
PvP multiplayer is a totally different game.
shift+lmb
Who knew!
Wow.
I KISS YOU!
That and well, the guy who told me that DoW2 was an obvious example of a game with more Micro focus in the combat had never actually played it IIRC.
Whatever the case, the simplest way to put it is that Starcraft 2 requires you to be doing a LOT more clicking and button pressing at any one point than DoW2 does.
I'll be getting this for sure, probably two copies (one for me and one for the girlfriend, hopefully to get two sets of hats while I'm at it since she hates non-Portal FPSs), but am trying to remain strong these last few days until the sale presumably begins.
Since Trine 2 doesn't come out until Dec, hopefully that doesn't interfere with my hat acquisition.
Edit: Okay, I've tried Searching and I skimmed like 8 pages, but didn't notice immediately; wasn't there a post that had a "best of" list/package of Oblivion mods on hand?
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
My Backloggery
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
It was added a bit over two months ago.
My friends' gameplay stats:
Saints Row 3, 404 hours.
Skyrim, 2272 hours. o_O
Whut? Has he been running Skyrim simultaneously on ten computers since it was released or something?
Somewhere I hope that I won't hate Skyrim as much as I hate Oblivion. I want a good fantasy game that delivers on that open world promise. But until then I'm happy to be getting down with my bad self over in Steelport.
Wait, how the hell do you check that stat?
Friends. Plural. That is the Steam stats of the gameplay time for everybody in my friends list.
Just to satisfy the curiosity of someone who has paid no attention whatsoever to it...would someone mind explaining to me what Saints Row 3 is about?
Because I thought it was some kind of gangster game and now every time I hear about it, it's all hitting people with giant dildos and driving around blowing shit up in a tank and stuff like that. Is the appeal supposed to be just having a gangster game which is absurd and over the top as possible?
This is not a critcism, this is intended as an honest question, because all I know about the Saints Row franchise is that PA did a classic comic about the first one and that the second one was a mess until some enterprising member of this forum put together a great mod pack for it.
Community Home main page, right hand column, down low.
Picture a GTA style sandbox game where you play your character from Evil Genius.
While there is "Gansta" stuff, it's buried. It's more like you are a mob boss at this point, reaching Bond Supervillain levels (with appropriate response!)
But more than anything, it is fun. It doesn't penalize you for doing insane stuff.
Friend average is 25 hours played over the last 2 weeks.
1751 hrs of Skyrim
408 hours of SR3
(236 hours of Dungeon Defenders)
... Somewhat telling that Modern Warfare 3 is 33rd at 6 hours played.
Wow! Lifetime stats are surprising:
TF2: 19,543 hrs
L4D2: 6006 hrs
Borderlands: 4265 hrs
Bad Company 2: 3528 hrs
New Vegas: 2625 hrs
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/612717265854008452/9F532DC6BF7B4AB720A34563761E20014D5401FF/
TF2: 23,827 hrs
Borderlands: 6341 hrs
L4D2: 4423 hrs
New Vegas: 3555 hrs
Bad Company 2: 3168 hrs
Mount & Blade - Warband: 2623 hrs
L4D: 2547 hrs
Mass Effect 2: 2497 hrs
Mass Effect: 2371 hrs
Civilization V: 2299 hrs
Also, my friends stats, again mainly made up of PA chaps and chapettes:
Skyrim: 771 Hours
SR3: 212 Hours
Killing Floor: 101 Hours
Dungeon Defenders: 52 Hours
Blog
Twitter
Yeah, Saints Row 3 builds on the story of Saints Row 2, where you play a psychopathic gang leader who rises to dominate a city and turn his syndicate into a corporate and media empire.
So Saints Row 3 is about the rise of a Super Villain to the global stage.
Things you can do in SR3. Get a sex change. Kill people with a giant sex toy. Kick everyone in the b alls (This is a word that was spontaneously coined in conversation with envoy. It's like balls but it's ALL the balls.). Play psychopath Barbie dress up (Not on the same level as SR2 with GotR but it's still good). Swoop down in your VTOL fighter jet straight out of Macross and annihilate entire gang operations in seconds.
I must say the ball kicking is incredibly satisfying. Every weapon has its very own ball kicking animation. I find myself changing up guns in combat just so I can change up the ball kicking. Because lots of people get kicked in fucking balls. All day. All night. Right in the fucking b alls.
In more disappointing news, I was unaware that Cities XL and Simcity 4 do not come with campaign modes. Now I don't know when I will really get around to playing them since there is no real "goal"
It's a strategy game and it's real time. Sounds like an RTS to me!
TF2 4940
Civ 5 2027 (one friend accounts for over 1088 of these hours, and probably has 1500 hours at least in Civ4/Colonization)
Borderlands 1418
Warband 1202
BFBC2 1191
Witcher 2 is the most wanted game at 18 people, followed by Space Marine and Rage at 13 each.
488 hours of Skyrim and 102 hours of SR3 these past 2 weeks.
1859.5 hrs
View friends' activity
Saints Row: The Third
326.9 hrs
View friends' activity
DC Universe Online
154.6 hrs
View friends' activity
Team Fortress 2
135.3 hrs
View friends' activity
Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition
108.9 hrs
View friends' activity
Dota 2
78 hrs
View friends' activity
Serious, DCO!?
It's more like Neverwinter Nights/Dragon Age. Just less talking and more killing.