I just wanted to post an update with some of the stuff that has happened over on my end with regards to all this Ocean Marketing stuff.
Around midnight last night Paul sent me a mail saying that I could expect to hear from their attorneys. As of right now that still has not happened and honestly I don’t expect it will. Our attorneys (who are real people with an office and everything) are ready should it get to that point though.
At 7:12am this morning I got another mail from Paul. It was one line and simply said:
“You have the power Mike Please make it stop”
The reality is that once I had posted the emails I didn’t have the power anymore. The Internet had it now and nothing I said or did was going to change that.
An hour later I got a more complete apology:
Hey Mike,
I just wanted to apologize for the way our emails progressed I didn’t know how big your site was and I really didn’t believe you ran Pax , So for what’s its worth I am very sorry. Your post has obviously made my life very difficult and I have not slept yet dealing with all the spam and personal information intrusion as well as my family being smeared on the internet.
If you can please accept my apology and anything you can do to help if not me my son and wife please do. I have apologized to Dave and apologized to you what else can I do please tell me so I can make things good. I obviously care or I would not be emailing you.
I think there is a big difference between being sorry and being sorry you got caught. I have a real problem with bullies. I spent my childhood moving from school to school and I got made fun of everyplace I landed. I feel like Paul is a bully and maybe that’s why I have no sympathy here. Someday every bully meets and even bigger bully and maybe that’s me in this case. It’s the same thing that happened with Jack Thompson. It might not always make the most business sense and it is a policy that has caused us some legal problems, but I really don’t give a shit about that. When these assholes threaten me or Penny Arcade I just laugh. I will personally burn everything I’ve made to the fucking ground if I think I can catch them in the flames.
Hm. Hopefully this isn't a sign of the impending encrappening of Joystiq.
...yes, "encrappening" is a word, dammit!
Now and then I've noticed Joystiq has been sounding a tad more like Kotaku at times in the last several months, wasn't sure if it was just me imagining things or what.
As long as they don't go all destructoid on their reviews
I'd be more concerned if they ended up hiring some dude from Japan who posts asinine stuff that isn't even video game related or posting cosplay pictures as news.
Those who have suffered the worse tend to be dark when they see certain people treating others as they themselves were treated without any ability to fight back.
You can put your past behind you, but it's always a part of you.
Okay, digging up the guys dirty personal laundry is going a step too far I think. He's been professionally humiliated and dropped by the owner of the company: that's more than enough.
It is going the way, yeah. I saw a retweet earlier that asked why the internet can't do this sort of thing to corrupt people in charge (politicians).
Those who have suffered the worse tend to be dark when they see certain people treating others as they themselves were treated without any ability to fight back.
You can put your past behind you, but it's always a part of you.
Behind every person who's been bullied and lived with it, is a dark thing waiting to be awakened.
Man, this is all so surreal. Mike basically ruined this guy's life. Maybe it's because Christmas just ended, but I kinda feel for the guy, however much he had done wrong.
I don't feel sorry for him. He is horrible at his job and tried to threaten someone who happens to have a tall soap box. Then he made it worse by doing multiple things to cover it up.
He should lose his business because he is bad at it. The personal life stuff should all blow over. But these are the dangers of having Facebook and Myspace. The Internet isn't quite as annonymous anymore.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
It might not always make the most business sense and it is a policy that has caused us some legal problems, but I really don’t give a shit about that. When these assholes threaten me or Penny Arcade I just laugh. I will personally burn everything I’ve made to the fucking ground if I think I can catch them in the flames.
Y'know, when it comes down to it, I feel the same way. I've even done it too. Not literally. Fire bad.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
edited December 2011
Yeah, not sure where sympathy comes from here. Dude is terrible at his job. Then he compounded this by being terrible to what amounts to a public figure on the Internet. When was the last time you saw anyone walk up to a celebrity in the street, threaten to fuck up their reputation in front of witnesses without provocation (and without even the means to do so), and get away with it?
I can't help but wonder what Jerry is doing during all this. Is he just staring at his monitor, agape?
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Probably teaching his kid some new Words to unleash on his Friends. For all that they're best buds, they don't live in each others' pockets (any more) or necessarily have to give a public damn about what the other does.
Probably brainstorming what mind boggling thing this whole ordeal will turn into.
I mean, Childs Play came out of Jack Thompson dickery. PAX came out of E3 dickery. We have Extra Credits due to Escapist dickery, who knows what other PATV shows are a result of some sort of feud.
Lets all talk about what big thing this will turn into.
...so you think he doesn't at all care about this?
That's not even close to what I said; I just questioned your unwarranted assumptions that Tycho's reaction to this needed to be either immediate or public.
...so you think he doesn't at all care about this?
That's not even close to what I said; I just questioned your unwarranted assumptions that Tycho's reaction to this needed to be either immediate or public.
Holy crap, guy. I said I "wondered" not "I demand to know." I thought the imagery was humorous.
Man, this is all so surreal. Mike basically ruined this guy's life. Maybe it's because Christmas just ended, but I kinda feel for the guy, however much he had done wrong.
I don't feel sorry for him. He is horrible at his job and tried to threaten someone who happens to have a tall soap box. Then he made it worse by doing multiple things to cover it up.
He should lose his business because he is bad at it. The personal life stuff should all blow over. But these are the dangers of having Facebook and Myspace. The Internet isn't quite as annonymous anymore.
Seriously. That apology is a non apology: "I just wanted to apologize for the way our emails progressed I didn’t know how big your site was and I really didn’t believe you ran Pax"
Basically, 'I didn't know you were important so I thought I could get away with treating you like shit."
Hes not saying hes remorseful he acted that way, he is, as Mike said, sorry he got caught.
Hes not saying hes remorseful he acted that way, he is, as Mike said, sorry he got caught.
He's also saying "My wife and kids are getting caught in the cross fire, please stop."
And Gabe's post reply, basically, "lol"
Which means Gabe is a dick.
How exactly are they getting caught in the crossfire? (YOU'LL GET CAUGHT IN THE)
Is it that he was discovered to have them? Because I haven't seen any action taken directly against them, or about them. Again, comments about worrying about the child's upbringing, but that's it.
Well, Mike has a point in that there really isn't anything he can do. Some people will stop if he says to stop, and others will start because they enjoy being antagonistic. Admittedly, the last part of that post sounds something like the Joker, but this Paul guy probably isn't sincere in his apology.
And Jerry has, historically, always been more reserved of the two. If he says anything about this, it'll be after things have calmed down.
Hes not saying hes remorseful he acted that way, he is, as Mike said, sorry he got caught.
He's also saying "My wife and kids are getting caught in the cross fire, please stop."
And Gabe's post reply, basically, "lol"
Which means Gabe is a dick.
Uh no, Christoforos' wife and kids were not part of the equation until HE USED THEM AS HUMAN SHIELDS and essentially namedropped them to garner sympathy points. Kinda like how he namedropped all those industry names to garner rep points.
Hm. Hopefully this isn't a sign of the impending encrappening of Joystiq.
...yes, "encrappening" is a word, dammit!
Now and then I've noticed Joystiq has been sounding a tad more like Kotaku at times in the last several months, wasn't sure if it was just me imagining things or what.
As long as they don't go all destructoid on their reviews
I'd be more concerned if they ended up hiring some dude from Japan who posts asinine stuff that isn't even video game related or posting cosplay pictures as news.
So you're saying they should hire the Kiki Trick marketing firm.
Yeah, I haven't seen anything to confirm he even has a wife and kid, though if he does I pity them - having a possibly-roid-raging asshole like this for a husband/father can't be any fun.
As for what Jerry thinks about all this, well, it's hardly the first time Mike has become (in Jerry's words) "a base and vile aggressor." Reading Jerry's news posts from previous incidents gives me the impression that he's become rather accustomed to this, though he still retains some capacity for amazement at Mike's talent for making people come completely unglued.
Hes not saying hes remorseful he acted that way, he is, as Mike said, sorry he got caught.
He's also saying "My wife and kids are getting caught in the cross fire, please stop."
And Gabe's post reply, basically, "lol"
Which means Gabe is a dick.
A man lost his job because of his own behaviour, and his family will suffer for it. I feel really bad for his family, and his kids. Sucks to be them. I'd have hoped the internet would be more forgiving after the man lost his job.
Just to throw some kindling on the fire on this one...
being someone who is a haver of a wife and a kid and another kid on the way...
I don't get to play that card and somehow be exempt from retribution if I go around kicking people in the nuts constantly and one of them (or all of them in this case) decide to retaliate. Yes, if I'm the breadwinner (I'm not, I'm a stay at home dad), my family will be "hurt" by the fact that I got my legs broken for being a douchenozzle and can't work, but it's not like there should be some "well, they have a family so no matter how they act they get a pass" rule.
If, on the other hand, people actually started going after the wife and kid, then that's shit and that is wrong. That wouldn't be even remotely ok. But the guy doesn't get a get out of jail free card just by having found some unlucky woman to marry him. Who knows, maybe this whole thing will show her who this dude really is and they'll be better off for it.
Yeah, not sure where sympathy comes from here. Dude is terrible at his job. Then he compounded this by being terrible to what amounts to a public figure on the Internet. When was the last time you saw anyone walk up to a celebrity in the street, threaten to fuck up their reputation in front of witnesses without provocation (and without even the means to do so), and get away with it?
The dude's lost his job. That seems like sufficient retribution. The way things are going, it's looking like he's being crucified in the span of less than a day. I don't want to be that guy, and this doesn't excuse all the terrible things he's done, but if manufacturing shipments are indeed slow and he's the only one hired by the company in question to be responsible for the customer service during the holiday period, I can understand the whole thing being stressful. He's apparently an anabolic steroid user too, which is documented to cause aggression, violence and mania. I don't want to think what's in his mind right now, which may just cause repercussions for his wife and child.
Chen on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Yeah, not sure where sympathy comes from here. Dude is terrible at his job. Then he compounded this by being terrible to what amounts to a public figure on the Internet. When was the last time you saw anyone walk up to a celebrity in the street, threaten to fuck up their reputation in front of witnesses without provocation (and without even the means to do so), and get away with it?
The dude's lost his job. That seems like sufficient retribution. The way things are going, it's looking like he's being crucified in the span of less than a day. I don't want to be that guy, and this doesn't excuse all the terrible things he's done, but if manufacturing shipments are indeed slow and he's the only one hired by the company in question to be responsible for the customer service during the holiday period, I can understand the whole thing being stressful. He's apparently an anabolic steroid user too, which is documented to cause aggression, violence and mania. I don't want to think what's in his mind right now, which may just cause repercussions for his wife and child.
Pretty sure he can choose to stop roiding up.
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
Uh no, Christoforos' wife and kids were not part of the equation until HE USED THEM AS HUMAN SHIELDS and essentially namedropped them to garner sympathy points. Kinda like how he namedropped all those industry names to garner rep points.
And Gabe pretty much called him out on it.
When The Internet gets all irate, when they're directed toward people whose addresses and phone numbers and etc are available, you can be fairly certain that this guy's home life is being hit by this.
And then Gabe is bringing that out into the light. Is the guy being a little pitiable, begging Gabe to let up, to chill out? Maybe. Is Gabe being pretty petty, putting this guy's pleading out there for everyone to see and mock? Absolutely.
Gabe mentions having had to deal with bullies as a kid. I'm definitely of the mind that someone who has suffered a particular indignity should be all the more careful not to become the thing that they hate. In the post quoted at the top of this page, Gabe is definitely playing the bully.
Man, this is all so surreal. Mike basically ruined this guy's life. Maybe it's because Christmas just ended, but I kinda feel for the guy, however much he had done wrong.
Let's put it this way, the e-mails went out to some of the largest gamine websites in addition to PA. Mike only posted those e-mails recently while almost a half-dozen different articles have gone up on blogs, Reddit, and gaming websites. At the least, Mike fanned the flames created by Reddit users and Kotaku pulling up everything about this guy's internet history. At the most, Mike's brought the incident to the attention of those who otherwise avoid the gaming rags (like me). However, Mike simply brought the whole thing up, and until the last post didn't add a whole lot of personal fervor to it.
I think his last post is a bit... dramatic, but as I said above, I can see his side of it from afar. I think Mike was fully aware of what was about to happen though. He even commented that once everything was posted, it was out of his hands. He knows he doesn't have to say "Faster Pussycat Kill kill!" when the internet has lolcats and anonymous users ready to jump on any faceless aggressor.
Honestly though, Mike and Jerry are probably the best people to handle this situation. Not only do they have the power to inform the internet's ravening dogs, but have the best infrastructure in place to not only promote the product, but to bring the whole thing to the attention of Childs Play, as Dave said in the e-mails to Mike.
Posts
Gabes post is very dark.
I'd be more concerned if they ended up hiring some dude from Japan who posts asinine stuff that isn't even video game related or posting cosplay pictures as news.
Those who have suffered the worse tend to be dark when they see certain people treating others as they themselves were treated without any ability to fight back.
You can put your past behind you, but it's always a part of you.
I TOLD YOU I DEAL WITH THE CUSTOMERS SO THE ENGINEERS DON'T HAVE TO. I HAVE PEOPLE SKILLS DAMMIT! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!
Have they not seen Anonymous or Wikileaks?
Behind every person who's been bullied and lived with it, is a dark thing waiting to be awakened.
That is just too perfect.
I don't feel sorry for him. He is horrible at his job and tried to threaten someone who happens to have a tall soap box. Then he made it worse by doing multiple things to cover it up.
He should lose his business because he is bad at it. The personal life stuff should all blow over. But these are the dangers of having Facebook and Myspace. The Internet isn't quite as annonymous anymore.
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Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
I mean, Childs Play came out of Jack Thompson dickery. PAX came out of E3 dickery. We have Extra Credits due to Escapist dickery, who knows what other PATV shows are a result of some sort of feud.
Lets all talk about what big thing this will turn into.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Holy crap, guy. I said I "wondered" not "I demand to know." I thought the imagery was humorous.
You got to love some of the stuff to come out of this.
Seriously. That apology is a non apology: "I just wanted to apologize for the way our emails progressed I didn’t know how big your site was and I really didn’t believe you ran Pax"
Basically, 'I didn't know you were important so I thought I could get away with treating you like shit."
Hes not saying hes remorseful he acted that way, he is, as Mike said, sorry he got caught.
He's also saying "My wife and kids are getting caught in the cross fire, please stop."
And Gabe's post reply, basically, "lol"
Which means Gabe is a dick.
Still the lesser of two evils.
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And how is Gabe going to stop anything? By accepting his non-apology?
How exactly are they getting caught in the crossfire? (YOU'LL GET CAUGHT IN THE)
Is it that he was discovered to have them? Because I haven't seen any action taken directly against them, or about them. Again, comments about worrying about the child's upbringing, but that's it.
God was this terrible.
It had practically nothing to do with Civ.
Dickwolves, dickerdoodles, I think Gabe is just fine with penis.
And Jerry has, historically, always been more reserved of the two. If he says anything about this, it'll be after things have calmed down.
He's getting some revenge by swinging the force of his influence. Human he is.
And Gabe pretty much called him out on it.
So you're saying they should hire the Kiki Trick marketing firm.
As for what Jerry thinks about all this, well, it's hardly the first time Mike has become (in Jerry's words) "a base and vile aggressor." Reading Jerry's news posts from previous incidents gives me the impression that he's become rather accustomed to this, though he still retains some capacity for amazement at Mike's talent for making people come completely unglued.
Probably writing a comic to make light of the whole situation. Please be writing a comic on this topic.
A man lost his job because of his own behaviour, and his family will suffer for it. I feel really bad for his family, and his kids. Sucks to be them. I'd have hoped the internet would be more forgiving after the man lost his job.
being someone who is a haver of a wife and a kid and another kid on the way...
I don't get to play that card and somehow be exempt from retribution if I go around kicking people in the nuts constantly and one of them (or all of them in this case) decide to retaliate. Yes, if I'm the breadwinner (I'm not, I'm a stay at home dad), my family will be "hurt" by the fact that I got my legs broken for being a douchenozzle and can't work, but it's not like there should be some "well, they have a family so no matter how they act they get a pass" rule.
If, on the other hand, people actually started going after the wife and kid, then that's shit and that is wrong. That wouldn't be even remotely ok. But the guy doesn't get a get out of jail free card just by having found some unlucky woman to marry him. Who knows, maybe this whole thing will show her who this dude really is and they'll be better off for it.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
That's not going to happen. That would leverage bully-type of weight on the situation.
The dude's lost his job. That seems like sufficient retribution. The way things are going, it's looking like he's being crucified in the span of less than a day. I don't want to be that guy, and this doesn't excuse all the terrible things he's done, but if manufacturing shipments are indeed slow and he's the only one hired by the company in question to be responsible for the customer service during the holiday period, I can understand the whole thing being stressful. He's apparently an anabolic steroid user too, which is documented to cause aggression, violence and mania. I don't want to think what's in his mind right now, which may just cause repercussions for his wife and child.
Pretty sure he can choose to stop roiding up.
When The Internet gets all irate, when they're directed toward people whose addresses and phone numbers and etc are available, you can be fairly certain that this guy's home life is being hit by this.
And then Gabe is bringing that out into the light. Is the guy being a little pitiable, begging Gabe to let up, to chill out? Maybe. Is Gabe being pretty petty, putting this guy's pleading out there for everyone to see and mock? Absolutely.
Gabe mentions having had to deal with bullies as a kid. I'm definitely of the mind that someone who has suffered a particular indignity should be all the more careful not to become the thing that they hate. In the post quoted at the top of this page, Gabe is definitely playing the bully.
I laughed way too fucking hard at this.
That is, indeed, pretty harsh.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Let's put it this way, the e-mails went out to some of the largest gamine websites in addition to PA. Mike only posted those e-mails recently while almost a half-dozen different articles have gone up on blogs, Reddit, and gaming websites. At the least, Mike fanned the flames created by Reddit users and Kotaku pulling up everything about this guy's internet history. At the most, Mike's brought the incident to the attention of those who otherwise avoid the gaming rags (like me). However, Mike simply brought the whole thing up, and until the last post didn't add a whole lot of personal fervor to it.
I think his last post is a bit... dramatic, but as I said above, I can see his side of it from afar. I think Mike was fully aware of what was about to happen though. He even commented that once everything was posted, it was out of his hands. He knows he doesn't have to say "Faster Pussycat Kill kill!" when the internet has lolcats and anonymous users ready to jump on any faceless aggressor.
Honestly though, Mike and Jerry are probably the best people to handle this situation. Not only do they have the power to inform the internet's ravening dogs, but have the best infrastructure in place to not only promote the product, but to bring the whole thing to the attention of Childs Play, as Dave said in the e-mails to Mike.