It should capsulize people working together towards a singular goal. bringing a nation to power, rediscovering lost artifacts, defending a nation from those artifacts.
The problem is they are all now world of warcraft, which has kinda shitty psedu turn based combat and a set narrative structure. it's not very interesting. TOR seems to be trying to play with part of it, Guild wars 2 seems to have taken a step towards it, but is doing enough different things to be kind of interesting, but it feels a lot more like an mmo then i remember this first one.
Basically, someone needs to make an mmo with a lot of the mmo trappings, but get rid of the fucking combat and play being shit to make up for thousands of people being in it at once. i can understand why it happens, but when instancing is a thing for quests, make it so instance combat plays like a multiplayer game. i can shoot dudes in real time in halo 2, why can't i do it years later in this?
MMOs are fine if you're with a group of people you like and enjoy playing with. But they're intentionally designed to have everything take much longer than it would in single players so you keep paying that 15 dollars a month. Nothing is short in an MMO.
The entire Madness of Deathwing encounter.
Yeah, pretty much. Raid bosses in WoW at least don't take very long once you've got them down (even Madness doesn't, 12 minutes on the final boss isn't so long in a single player game) but they're set up in such a way that you have to take multiple attempts to get to that point. So a 12 minute boss is actually, depending on difficulty, a 12+ hour boss over the course of a few weeks.
I've tried a few times but they've always just totally bored me
Which is a shame because on paper they sound like they're right up my alley
same
i'm even starting to get bored of spiral knights
I think the biggest thing that hinders MMO design is the fact that they expect you to play them for as long as the servers are up.
Which means their pacing becomes horrendously bloated, because what team could create enough content to last for upwards of a year and not burn through an absurd amount of development time and cash? Even doing everything there is to do in Skyrim probably wouldn't take you a year. So they create a typical RPG's-worth of content, but make getting to that content as slow as they dare.
And for several million people, that pacing is fine. But for a whole lot of others (myself included), I'd rather just play a 40-hour RPG to get a better story, better pacing and the same amount of content. I think the only reason I stuck with Guild Wars 1 as long as I did (over two years) is because it felt less like an MMO and more like an RPG I could play with friends.
MMOs are fine if you're with a group of people you like and enjoy playing with. But they're intentionally designed to have everything take much longer than it would in single players so you keep paying that 15 dollars a month. Nothing is short in an MMO.
The entire Madness of Deathwing encounter.
Yeah, pretty much. Raid bosses in WoW at least don't take very long once you've got them down (even Madness doesn't, 12 minutes on the final boss isn't so long in a single player game) but they're set up in such a way that you have to take multiple attempts to get to that point. So a 12 minute boss is actually, depending on difficulty, a 12+ hour boss over the course of a few weeks.
12 minutes is too damn long.
When you're trying to learn it and the hardest part of the fight to master is in the last 2 minutes, yeah. But I don't think it's too long on principle. So long as we one shot it, it's not even too long now. Although, I wasn't present during progression for him, so it probably doesn't count.
All of these things being said, i'm glad a lot of games are going to a free to play set up. It lets them take risks they might not be able to other wise. yeah it means more compromises, but a lot of them if you're paying for stuff you get about the same level of game from a paid mmo, and it's often a bit more interesting then just now my horse is purple.
Also means you tend to have to make an excellent opening, because most f2p players i know, if the game doesn't grab them quickly they're gone forever. paid mmos you got them for a bit because "well i paid 60 bucks for this"
I'm also interested in seeing where this neverwinter game will end up. now that it's full free to play and now kind of an action game?
I'm interested to see what cryptic can do when spending more then 18 months on an mmo.
The more I think about "my" kind of MMO, the more I realise that what I'm describing wouldn't really be an MMO, it'd just be some generic mulitplayer game with some level of faction consistency/rankings and territory
The more I think about "my" kind of MMO, the more I realise that what I'm describing wouldn't really be an MMO, it'd just be some generic mulitplayer game with some level of faction consistency/rankings and territory
Hmmph
you should check our hybrid. it's a team based cover shooter with a conquest meta game.
The more I think about "my" kind of MMO, the more I realise that what I'm describing wouldn't really be an MMO, it'd just be some generic mulitplayer game with some level of faction consistency/rankings and territory
Hmmph
you should check our hybrid. it's a team based cover shooter with a conquest meta game.
When did "cover shooter" become a widely used term anyway
FPSs have always seemed to have cover of a sort but then one day someone had the wonderful idea of letting you snap to cover and regenerate health
The more I think about "my" kind of MMO, the more I realise that what I'm describing wouldn't really be an MMO, it'd just be some generic mulitplayer game with some level of faction consistency/rankings and territory
Hmmph
This is what Mechwarrior Online is gonna do. It's basically giant robots slugging it out foremost, capturing planets and the like comes second. I'm really hoping that kind of game model will work because oh God this game can't fail on me.
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Quoththe RavenMiami, FL FOR REALRegistered Userregular
The more I think about "my" kind of MMO, the more I realise that what I'm describing wouldn't really be an MMO, it'd just be some generic mulitplayer game with some level of faction consistency/rankings and territory
Hmmph
you should check our hybrid. it's a team based cover shooter with a conquest meta game.
When did "cover shooter" become a widely used term anyway
FPSs have always seemed to have cover of a sort but then one day someone had the wonderful idea of letting you snap to cover and regenerate health
i blame Tom Clancy and gears of war.
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FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
have they yet made an MMO that rejects all of the standard MMO design decisions and instead chooses to be a fun video game first and a large-scale multiplayer experience second
have they yet made an MMO that rejects all of the standard MMO design decisions and instead chooses to be a fun video game first and a large-scale multiplayer experience second
nope.
wait, does gta 4 multiplayer count?
Melding on
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ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
what does "getting fucked in the ass by some dude who thinks it's hysterical to run through a lower zone with his max level character and prevent anyone from doing anything for like an hour straight" fall
what does "getting fucked in the ass by some dude who thinks it's hysterical to run through a lower zone with his max level character and prevent anyone from doing anything for like an hour straight" fall
trading, and conquering.
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Quoththe RavenMiami, FL FOR REALRegistered Userregular
I think that falls under dueling but we can add griefing if you want
have they yet made an MMO that rejects all of the standard MMO design decisions and instead chooses to be a fun video game first and a large-scale multiplayer experience second
I would wager that none of them have ever been built the other way around either.
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ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
that was literally the day i quit wow
like
nah i like playing with friends but it ain't worth it if this happens
what does "getting fucked in the ass by some dude who thinks it's hysterical to run through a lower zone with his max level character and prevent anyone from doing anything for like an hour straight" fall
That dumb competition for enemy spawns is why I loved the heavy instancing in Guild Wars 1.
what does "getting fucked in the ass by some dude who thinks it's hysterical to run through a lower zone with his max level character and prevent anyone from doing anything for like an hour straight" fall
That dumb competition for enemy spawns is why I loved the heavy instancing in Guild Wars 1.
So of course they got rid of it in GW2...
i was talking more camping in a central area and killing any low level characters that happen to be nearby
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ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
the only game where i'm remotely ok with griefing is EVE because it's usually based around the economy and EVE has that insane ass economy that allows for and encourages that shit
what does "getting fucked in the ass by some dude who thinks it's hysterical to run through a lower zone with his max level character and prevent anyone from doing anything for like an hour straight" fall
That dumb competition for enemy spawns is why I loved the heavy instancing in Guild Wars 1.
So of course they got rid of it in GW2...
i was talking more camping in a central area and killing any low level characters that happen to be nearby
Oh!
Okay, yeah, that sucks WAY more. And thankfully it isn't possible in GW2. PvE and PvP are kept separate from each other.
And how one group is apparently trying to reset the economy by killing everyone around the central economic hub and force them to go to a different hub or some such. Heard about it on the bombcast, it sounds pretty amazing.
i love that the devs love this kind of shit. they are so fucking proud they made a game where this can happen. No other game could do this. And that's amazing.
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PaperLuigi44My amazement is at maximum capacity.Registered Userregular
The more I think about "my" kind of MMO, the more I realise that what I'm describing wouldn't really be an MMO, it'd just be some generic mulitplayer game with some level of faction consistency/rankings and territory
Hmmph
you should check our hybrid. it's a team based cover shooter with a conquest meta game.
When did "cover shooter" become a widely used term anyway
FPSs have always seemed to have cover of a sort but then one day someone had the wonderful idea of letting you snap to cover and regenerate health
Gears of War was pretty big in popularizing that stuff.
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ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
i love that the devs love this kind of shit. they are so fucking proud they made a game where this can happen. No other game could do this. And that's amazing.
pretty sure people were actually studying eve's economy for a bit
i love that the devs love this kind of shit. they are so fucking proud they made a game where this can happen. No other game could do this. And that's amazing.
pretty sure people were actually studying eve's economy for a bit
yeah, there is like, a real working economy in there, and that's fascinating. I'm looking forward to what the world of darkness game is like. cause apparently they want to do a similar thing.
I usually hear it as cover-based shooter, which is different than cover shooter. Plenty of shooters have had cover before, but only since Gears have you really gotten ones where the whole idea was you had to be tactical with using cover all the time, as opposed to your call of duty 2 and 4 types where cover is just a place to temporarily stop running and gunning for a few seconds.
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It should capsulize people working together towards a singular goal. bringing a nation to power, rediscovering lost artifacts, defending a nation from those artifacts.
The problem is they are all now world of warcraft, which has kinda shitty psedu turn based combat and a set narrative structure. it's not very interesting. TOR seems to be trying to play with part of it, Guild wars 2 seems to have taken a step towards it, but is doing enough different things to be kind of interesting, but it feels a lot more like an mmo then i remember this first one.
Basically, someone needs to make an mmo with a lot of the mmo trappings, but get rid of the fucking combat and play being shit to make up for thousands of people being in it at once. i can understand why it happens, but when instancing is a thing for quests, make it so instance combat plays like a multiplayer game. i can shoot dudes in real time in halo 2, why can't i do it years later in this?
12 minutes is too damn long.
I think the biggest thing that hinders MMO design is the fact that they expect you to play them for as long as the servers are up.
Which means their pacing becomes horrendously bloated, because what team could create enough content to last for upwards of a year and not burn through an absurd amount of development time and cash? Even doing everything there is to do in Skyrim probably wouldn't take you a year. So they create a typical RPG's-worth of content, but make getting to that content as slow as they dare.
And for several million people, that pacing is fine. But for a whole lot of others (myself included), I'd rather just play a 40-hour RPG to get a better story, better pacing and the same amount of content. I think the only reason I stuck with Guild Wars 1 as long as I did (over two years) is because it felt less like an MMO and more like an RPG I could play with friends.
When you're trying to learn it and the hardest part of the fight to master is in the last 2 minutes, yeah. But I don't think it's too long on principle. So long as we one shot it, it's not even too long now. Although, I wasn't present during progression for him, so it probably doesn't count.
Like, what kind of relatively iterative tasks would people want to repeat that aren't grinding, what kinds of interactions are most fulfilling
Also means you tend to have to make an excellent opening, because most f2p players i know, if the game doesn't grab them quickly they're gone forever. paid mmos you got them for a bit because "well i paid 60 bucks for this"
I'm also interested in seeing where this neverwinter game will end up. now that it's full free to play and now kind of an action game?
I'm interested to see what cryptic can do when spending more then 18 months on an mmo.
Hmmph
you should check our hybrid. it's a team based cover shooter with a conquest meta game.
When did "cover shooter" become a widely used term anyway
FPSs have always seemed to have cover of a sort but then one day someone had the wonderful idea of letting you snap to cover and regenerate health
This is what Mechwarrior Online is gonna do. It's basically giant robots slugging it out foremost, capturing planets and the like comes second. I'm really hoping that kind of game model will work because oh God this game can't fail on me.
Grinding
Collecting
Delivering
Exploring
Crafting
Auctioning/trading/selling
Colonizing
Dueling
Raiding
Conquering/occupying
What else?
calling @pipthefair
i blame Tom Clancy and gears of war.
nope.
wait, does gta 4 multiplayer count?
what does "getting fucked in the ass by some dude who thinks it's hysterical to run through a lower zone with his max level character and prevent anyone from doing anything for like an hour straight" fall
trading, and conquering.
I would wager that none of them have ever been built the other way around either.
like
nah i like playing with friends but it ain't worth it if this happens
That dumb competition for enemy spawns is why I loved the heavy instancing in Guild Wars 1.
So of course they got rid of it in GW2...
As in I can't really wrap my head around why such a thing is even possible, I can easily understand the manchild mindset that finds it hilarious
i was talking more camping in a central area and killing any low level characters that happen to be nearby
Oh!
Okay, yeah, that sucks WAY more. And thankfully it isn't possible in GW2. PvE and PvP are kept separate from each other.
pretty much yeah
the entire 0.0 space war is insane, especially given that the original tactics that the goons used can be considered griefing
and that some of the things that have caused major victories on that side were exploits or tricks or what have you
and then the player-driven economy gets into and whoa
Gears of War was pretty big in popularizing that stuff.
pretty sure people were actually studying eve's economy for a bit
yeah, there is like, a real working economy in there, and that's fascinating. I'm looking forward to what the world of darkness game is like. cause apparently they want to do a similar thing.
I will admit this is not a universal style.