At least in the movie industry, it's so they can sell as many tickets as possible without people getting a warning out that it's a big turd.
There's also some crazy PR message control in there when it comes to games that may or may not have any effect on sales. Depends on the company and who's running things at the time. But yeah, still taking it as a potential red flag, considering how many big-name games get advanced reviews.
Jim Sterling just made some commentary on this one, and suffice to say he was as baffled as anyone else is on it. He's more confused however by the idea that publishers are getting conceited enough to be putting out special/collector editions of new IPs to begin with before a fanbase even exists for the game, and asserts(not without merit) that over-parceling game addons between versions to this extent is just going to end up driving more people into waiting for the inevitable "Game of the year edition" that has all of this stuff in one package anyway for an even cheaper price.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Man, if this game turns out to actually be good I'm going to have to eat so much crow.
I'm putting my money on formulaically average :P
I'm fully expecting an Ubisoft-style repeat of the launch of the first Assassin's Creed game, where it's pretty much a big, fancy tech demo that leaves everybody going "where's the rest of the game?" and it's the sequels that actually manage to build something worthwhile.
Well, not all the sequels. But I'm definitely looking forward to "Watch_Salty_Sea_Dogs" ten years and five sequels down the line, where you play as a digital pirate on an actual pirate ship, basically just pirating the shit out of everything you can copy or swipe, complete with DRM-freed sea shanties.
Jim Sterling just made some commentary on this one, and suffice to say he was as baffled as anyone else is on it. He's more confused however by the idea that publishers are getting conceited enough to be putting out special/collector editions of new IPs to begin with before a fanbase even exists for the game, and asserts(not without merit) that over-parceling game addons between versions to this extent is just going to end up driving more people into waiting for the inevitable "Game of the year edition" that has all of this stuff in one package anyway for an even cheaper price.
All the different editions just remind me of RDR which has like 50.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Yeah, a list of content like that immediately makes me go "wait for the GOTY version to show up on Steam for half price or less, because fuck the idea of not getting withheld game content because I didn't buy from the right 6 vendors".
That's like not buying Assassin's Creed IV because "oh no I didn't buy at GameStop so now I don't have the Kenway gold-plated swords! WAIT FOR HALF PRICE"
That's like not buying Assassin's Creed IV because "oh no I didn't buy at GameStop so now I don't have the Kenway gold-plated swords! WAIT FOR HALF PRICE"
Sure, but I'm not going to waste my time ploughing through the ten different package versions to find the "best" one, or even to find out if the content even matters. Yeah, no way would I care about something as rinky-dink as gold-plated whatever, but when figuring out if there is a "best" version of the game requires actual research because a ridiculous number of packages, then the marketing people have fucked up and I'm just not going to bother with it.
Granted, that's not the only kind of reason that will put me off buying the game at launch (the biggest one being a need for real reviews rather than flashes of bits and pieces), but there's already assloads of games out there I can get without any hassle about different versions, so why would I waste my time right now on something wrapped in shitty marketing ideas? If the game really is good, it'll be there when I get back to it in 3-6 months, so it's not like it's costing me anything to wait.
The thing is though, if this kind of marketing historically actually made people wait for goty editions and hurt sales, we wouldn't be seeing it with every new release. This stuff is made and marketed because it increases sales. And exclusive content always comes out for purchase eventually, if you want it that badly.
Prohass on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited May 2014
And historically, I've actually bought a handful of games based on that stuff, so yeah, I can totally see why they do it. It just doesn't make it any less shitty, or give me an incentive to buy any game at release these days.
I'm not arguing as to how effective it is as a market strategy, just saying that having that many retail versions of a brand-new IP is pretty annoying.
It is annoying, but I put it in the same category as being annoyed when a game has lots of pain in the ass and difficult achievements. It rubs my completionist bone the wrong way, but it's still kind of my fault for wanting all the coloured hats. Also this stuff is made for the dlc incentive and extra sales, like if we all refused to buy it it's not like they'd include it in the standard version, they'd just stop making them.
So...I'm kind of excited for this game? Does this make me a bad person?
Regarding the whole X number of different editions, don't they do that with a LOT of international products? Like each reigon gets specific bonuses etc? Like how many of those various collectors editions are ACTUALLY coming out in one given place?
If you look at the game isolated from hype and the shenanigans its a fine looking game. The aesthetic works, the powers are unique, and its an open world game that looks to take itself seriously (which is frankly refreshing after 30 hours of disengaging satire and sarcasm with GTAV), so Im hoping the story sweeps me up.
Im also hoping that you can incapacitate people non-lethally. Because im getting sick of having to murder hundreds of cops in these games, it tends to push super hard against my suspension of disbelief and ability to care for these open world characters.
I can understand refusing to give it any leeway and being dissapointed that its not going to be the experience that was promised. But if the stories good itll be worth it for me. IF. A big if.
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
I'm not expecting this game to revolutionize gaming. I mean it'd be a nice surprise don't get me wrong
But Watch_Dogs has been getting shit on recently for a lot of bullshit reasons and it pisses me off.
Jim Sterling just made some commentary on this one, and suffice to say he was as baffled as anyone else is on it. He's more confused however by the idea that publishers are getting conceited enough to be putting out special/collector editions of new IPs to begin with before a fanbase even exists for the game, and asserts(not without merit) that over-parceling game addons between versions to this extent is just going to end up driving more people into waiting for the inevitable "Game of the year edition" that has all of this stuff in one package anyway for an even cheaper price.
And if anyone is an expert at being conceited, it's jim sterling.
He's actually one of the first people to correct himself and apologize if he makes a mistake, and in his other content he's actually quite humble. Judging him based on his Escapist persona is like judging James Rolfe based on his AVGN persona when everyone who has met the guy will tell you he's actually one of the most pleasant people to be around.
Not that ad homs are a good way to counter-argument regardless of his personality, of course.
It just seems like a silly argument. Like he might feel it would drive people away from buying it, but if that were actually true then publishers would stop doing it. If anything it gets more people buying it on impulse, it gets better deals with retailers, etc. I mean if he thinks its a bad move then fair enough, but what is his evidence for it aside from personal dislike? Its not conceited or out of arrogance, its marketing, plain and simple.
I see goddamn figurines of Watch Dogs in gaming stores, which i find weirder. It hasnt even come out yet and im supposed to want a figurine of the character? But then again its kind of like confidence building in the brand. Companies in other industries do this stuff all the time.
And again if nobody bought these DLC and special editions, they would stop making them. So we have only ourselves to "blame". Really though, its choice. If you want the standard version get the standard version. If you want the one with the blue hat get the one with the blue hat. If you absolutely must have all of them, and are willing to postpone BUYING AND PLAYING THE GAME for some abstract future "better" experience, then more power to you, you crazy crazy theoretical person.
Again this isnt content we're missing out on, its content that wouldnt have been budgeted for during development, or allocated resources, if we didnt buy it or it didnt incentivise retailers and distributers in some way. A game isnt created 100% and then divided up into DLC. The DLC is made purposely AS DLC, the budget, time and resources that go into those extra missions or blue hats are only allocated because they will charge extra for them. If they made a stand and said "we will not have DLC for this game at launch", its not like we'd get the extra content in the game itself, there would just be no extra content.
Prohass on
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jeffinvaKooglercoming this summerRegistered Userregular
I only got back into the non-Nintendo console world back in 2008, and not even heavily (paying attention to news and buying more than one game every three months) in 2011. So this game has been like a spectacle to me. If it's true that no news is bad news, then this game should do well.
I think I'll wait for a price drop unless the gamer chatter is bananas. I've learned that after Titanfall the "enthusiast press" can't really be trusted.
It just seems like a silly argument. Like he might feel it would drive people away from buying it, but if that were actually true then publishers would stop doing it. If anything it gets more people buying it on impulse, it gets better deals with retailers, etc. I mean if he thinks its a bad move then fair enough, but what is his evidence for it aside from personal dislike? Its not conceited or out of arrogance, its marketing, plain and simple.
I see goddamn figurines of Watch Dogs in gaming stores, which i find weirder. It hasnt even come out yet and im supposed to want a figurine of the character? But then again its kind of like confidence building in the brand. Companies in other industries do this stuff all the time.
And again if nobody bought these DLC and special editions, they would stop making them. So we have only ourselves to "blame". Really though, its choice. If you want the standard version get the standard version. If you want the one with the blue hat get the one with the blue hat. If you absolutely must have all of them, and are willing to postpone BUYING AND PLAYING THE GAME for some abstract future "better" experience, then more power to you, you crazy crazy theoretical person.
Again this isnt content we're missing out on, its content that wouldnt have been budgeted for during development, or allocated resources, if we didnt buy it or it didnt incentivise retailers and distributers in some way. A game isnt created 100% and then divided up into DLC. The DLC is made purposely AS DLC, the budget, time and resources that go into those extra missions or blue hats are only allocated because they will charge extra for them. If they made a stand and said "we will not have DLC for this game at launch", its not like we'd get the extra content in the game itself, there would just be no extra content.
That's the weird thing about that reasoning - if getting the DLC is just incidental to you pre-ordering it, where is this determination coming from that there's a demand? How do you differentiate pre-orders for a particular retailer favored for DLC relative to people who just bought it where they normally bought it from anyway and happened to get DLC along with it? How do you differentiate pre-orders from people who are pre-ordering because of the DLC versus people who are pre-ordering because it's an anticipated title in general?
Additionally, if they're just flavor items, why and how are they simultaneously so important that it will hypothetically drive and/or sway game sales between vendors, but so unimportant that you'd be an idiot to wait until a GOTY edition and get all of them if you wanted to?
Just speaking for myself here, I can sure as hell tell you that I'm incredibly unlikely to change my order to a retailer that's not Amazon or Steam because Amazon Prime and the convenience of Steam in general outweigh any basic DLC offering that some other retailer can offer. The only thing that will change my buying habits would be exclusivity of the game itself. (freaking GameStop)
In a bloated Snorlax of an industry that depends on sales in the millions of copies just to break even, I can't really see any significant way to calculate that impact even with market data(factoring standard sales number variances of course) without getting into some really tangentially fuzzy RIAA/Ubisoft sales logic that stems into the same type of thought processes that say things like "we're making a little more money than we did last time, it must be because we fought so hard against piracy!"
Particularly considering some platforms will have ludicrous pre-sale deals that push some retailer sales more than others, like GreenManGaming having things like 25% off discount codes for the pre-order if you buy from them, but essentially you're just buying the Steam version and getting the Steam pre-order DLC as a result, it gets even harder to attribute any sales to any sort of demand for that DLC when a surge in pre-orders for the Steam version happens, versus sales because there was a way to pre-order it cheaper.
See(and prepare for some tin foil hatting!), in my opinion it's less because there's any calculable demand for the extra DLC stuff(and when you connect this part with the fact that the DLC doesn't cost anything extra it becomes rather enlightening) so much as it is another way to try to get their hooks in people like fence-buyers who would have the money to buy it on release but may otherwise wait for reviews to come in before making a final decision. In an industry where the concept of return policy is as alien as the black monolith from 2001, they know that once they get their hooks into you for that pre-order(especially digitally like Steam/Uplay where when you pay for it ahead of time you can't back out) you're basically fucking invested whether you like it or not, and you may as well strap in and hope the game doesn't end up being Colonial Marines. And because the average AAA consumer tends to be sheep that will buy the titles despite also turning around and naming EA worst company above even Monsanto, they're not all that concerned about the public image of it because they know those people are going to buy their next title anyway because I'm sure this next title coming will make up for all of it!
Donnicton on
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Saint JusticeMercenaryMah-vel Baybee!!!Registered Userregular
I have a code for the Digital Download of Watch Dogs for PC. I won't be using it as I'm going to be buying the XB1 version instead. If anyone's interested in the code, please send me a PM and we can work out the details. It appears to be the "standard" edition of the game as there's no mention of extras or anything.
Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul. ~ Tycho
My only fear about the current pre-order DLC, is that since there's so much unique stuff for different versions of the game you pre-order, the actual quality/length of these extras might be seriously lacking.
As for all these different special editions, I do believe in my opinion that they exist now because of complaints in the past from retailers and consumers about expensive pre-order only limited editions always being snapped up by ebay scalpers. Offer many versions and that complaint diminishes.
Anyway, Im one of these that can wait an extra week or so get a feel for which version is worth it.
I'm reeeeeeeaaaallly hoping that the kneecapping you see in the recent previews is actually a gameplay mechanic and not just something done for trailers. I'm sick of being all "hmmm I have to find out what happened to my family, also I'm going to disembowel a large percentage of the police force for no reason other than expediency".
Like give me the option to kill cops, but also to just knock their asses out or "he'll live" them
Loved sleeping dogs cos you could beat up the cops that arrive at the scene, drive off, and then bam, you've got a nice getaway that maintains the fact that you're an undercover cop.
Role playing horray
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
'Cmere Hong Kong, you and I have to have a talk about driving on the wrong side of the road.
It's one of the many really smart design decisions.
Another one that stood out to me? Health regenerates to half outside combat, so you don't go around totally helpless if you run into a new fight, (unless you buy food, which is another set of smart decisions I don't have time to get into.)
But in combat? You don't regen.
UNLESS you have full face, which makes health regen to full and gives other bonuses as you level up.
You get face by pulling off attacks, with flashier moves getting more face. To sum up, the combat system constantly rewards you for getting right up in enemy faces and kicking ass, while penalizing you for running off and cowering in a corner. The game's just full of touches like that, really good ideas that reinforce each other.
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Heh. I Frankenstein.
Since you are also a browns fan I'm just saying you might want to temper your lust Edward...
I too am excited for this game, if only because being able to blow up chicago seems a mercy for cubs fans.
"They lost again? Fuck me I wish I got exploded by a hacker."
"DONE!"
Just like Infamous Second Son let you put down Mariner fans.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Yeaaaah. I just started reading back through the thread a bit. Seems like they pulled a bit of a Dead Island since the initial footage.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/9213-Watch-Dogs-Five-Collectors-Editions-For-One-Game-What-F-ing-WHAT
Jim Sterling just made some commentary on this one, and suffice to say he was as baffled as anyone else is on it. He's more confused however by the idea that publishers are getting conceited enough to be putting out special/collector editions of new IPs to begin with before a fanbase even exists for the game, and asserts(not without merit) that over-parceling game addons between versions to this extent is just going to end up driving more people into waiting for the inevitable "Game of the year edition" that has all of this stuff in one package anyway for an even cheaper price.
Well, not all the sequels. But I'm definitely looking forward to "Watch_Salty_Sea_Dogs" ten years and five sequels down the line, where you play as a digital pirate on an actual pirate ship, basically just pirating the shit out of everything you can copy or swipe, complete with DRM-freed sea shanties.
That Watch Dogs 101 video they put out shows me that a large variety of side things to do will not be a problem with this game
All the different editions just remind me of RDR which has like 50.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Most of it is likely junk DLC, as is always the case with special edition DLC
pleasepaypreacher.net
Sure, but I'm not going to waste my time ploughing through the ten different package versions to find the "best" one, or even to find out if the content even matters. Yeah, no way would I care about something as rinky-dink as gold-plated whatever, but when figuring out if there is a "best" version of the game requires actual research because a ridiculous number of packages, then the marketing people have fucked up and I'm just not going to bother with it.
Granted, that's not the only kind of reason that will put me off buying the game at launch (the biggest one being a need for real reviews rather than flashes of bits and pieces), but there's already assloads of games out there I can get without any hassle about different versions, so why would I waste my time right now on something wrapped in shitty marketing ideas? If the game really is good, it'll be there when I get back to it in 3-6 months, so it's not like it's costing me anything to wait.
I'm not arguing as to how effective it is as a market strategy, just saying that having that many retail versions of a brand-new IP is pretty annoying.
It's the horse armour paradox.
Regarding the whole X number of different editions, don't they do that with a LOT of international products? Like each reigon gets specific bonuses etc? Like how many of those various collectors editions are ACTUALLY coming out in one given place?
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You will get something extra with it which will be, at the height of its potential, "neat"
Likely it'll just be a dumb forgettable thing
Im also hoping that you can incapacitate people non-lethally. Because im getting sick of having to murder hundreds of cops in these games, it tends to push super hard against my suspension of disbelief and ability to care for these open world characters.
I can understand refusing to give it any leeway and being dissapointed that its not going to be the experience that was promised. But if the stories good itll be worth it for me. IF. A big if.
But Watch_Dogs has been getting shit on recently for a lot of bullshit reasons and it pisses me off.
And if anyone is an expert at being conceited, it's jim sterling.
Thank god for Jim.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Not that ad homs are a good way to counter-argument regardless of his personality, of course.
I see goddamn figurines of Watch Dogs in gaming stores, which i find weirder. It hasnt even come out yet and im supposed to want a figurine of the character? But then again its kind of like confidence building in the brand. Companies in other industries do this stuff all the time.
And again if nobody bought these DLC and special editions, they would stop making them. So we have only ourselves to "blame". Really though, its choice. If you want the standard version get the standard version. If you want the one with the blue hat get the one with the blue hat. If you absolutely must have all of them, and are willing to postpone BUYING AND PLAYING THE GAME for some abstract future "better" experience, then more power to you, you crazy crazy theoretical person.
Again this isnt content we're missing out on, its content that wouldnt have been budgeted for during development, or allocated resources, if we didnt buy it or it didnt incentivise retailers and distributers in some way. A game isnt created 100% and then divided up into DLC. The DLC is made purposely AS DLC, the budget, time and resources that go into those extra missions or blue hats are only allocated because they will charge extra for them. If they made a stand and said "we will not have DLC for this game at launch", its not like we'd get the extra content in the game itself, there would just be no extra content.
I think I'll wait for a price drop unless the gamer chatter is bananas. I've learned that after Titanfall the "enthusiast press" can't really be trusted.
That's the weird thing about that reasoning - if getting the DLC is just incidental to you pre-ordering it, where is this determination coming from that there's a demand? How do you differentiate pre-orders for a particular retailer favored for DLC relative to people who just bought it where they normally bought it from anyway and happened to get DLC along with it? How do you differentiate pre-orders from people who are pre-ordering because of the DLC versus people who are pre-ordering because it's an anticipated title in general?
Additionally, if they're just flavor items, why and how are they simultaneously so important that it will hypothetically drive and/or sway game sales between vendors, but so unimportant that you'd be an idiot to wait until a GOTY edition and get all of them if you wanted to?
Just speaking for myself here, I can sure as hell tell you that I'm incredibly unlikely to change my order to a retailer that's not Amazon or Steam because Amazon Prime and the convenience of Steam in general outweigh any basic DLC offering that some other retailer can offer. The only thing that will change my buying habits would be exclusivity of the game itself. (freaking GameStop)
In a bloated Snorlax of an industry that depends on sales in the millions of copies just to break even, I can't really see any significant way to calculate that impact even with market data(factoring standard sales number variances of course) without getting into some really tangentially fuzzy RIAA/Ubisoft sales logic that stems into the same type of thought processes that say things like "we're making a little more money than we did last time, it must be because we fought so hard against piracy!"
Particularly considering some platforms will have ludicrous pre-sale deals that push some retailer sales more than others, like GreenManGaming having things like 25% off discount codes for the pre-order if you buy from them, but essentially you're just buying the Steam version and getting the Steam pre-order DLC as a result, it gets even harder to attribute any sales to any sort of demand for that DLC when a surge in pre-orders for the Steam version happens, versus sales because there was a way to pre-order it cheaper.
See(and prepare for some tin foil hatting!), in my opinion it's less because there's any calculable demand for the extra DLC stuff(and when you connect this part with the fact that the DLC doesn't cost anything extra it becomes rather enlightening) so much as it is another way to try to get their hooks in people like fence-buyers who would have the money to buy it on release but may otherwise wait for reviews to come in before making a final decision. In an industry where the concept of return policy is as alien as the black monolith from 2001, they know that once they get their hooks into you for that pre-order(especially digitally like Steam/Uplay where when you pay for it ahead of time you can't back out) you're basically fucking invested whether you like it or not, and you may as well strap in and hope the game doesn't end up being Colonial Marines. And because the average AAA consumer tends to be sheep that will buy the titles despite also turning around and naming EA worst company above even Monsanto, they're not all that concerned about the public image of it because they know those people are going to buy their next title anyway because I'm sure this next title coming will make up for all of it!
As for all these different special editions, I do believe in my opinion that they exist now because of complaints in the past from retailers and consumers about expensive pre-order only limited editions always being snapped up by ebay scalpers. Offer many versions and that complaint diminishes.
Anyway, Im one of these that can wait an extra week or so get a feel for which version is worth it.
And by hacking, do you mean, like cutting off one limb so 2 more take it's place?
KER-BLAM.
"Please I have kids I-"
KER-BLAM.
Problem solved. Time to get a pizza and make love to some hooker in the back of a stolen 4x4 before dumping her corpse off a pier.
This is elementary.
Like give me the option to kill cops, but also to just knock their asses out or "he'll live" them
Sleeping Dogs, as always, has you covered.
One of the ways to get rid of the police is just taking down every officer after you.
Why I fear the ocean.
SOLD.
'Cmere Hong Kong, you and I have to have a talk about driving on the wrong side of the road.
Role playing horray
It's one of the many really smart design decisions.
Another one that stood out to me? Health regenerates to half outside combat, so you don't go around totally helpless if you run into a new fight, (unless you buy food, which is another set of smart decisions I don't have time to get into.)
But in combat? You don't regen.
UNLESS you have full face, which makes health regen to full and gives other bonuses as you level up.
You get face by pulling off attacks, with flashier moves getting more face. To sum up, the combat system constantly rewards you for getting right up in enemy faces and kicking ass, while penalizing you for running off and cowering in a corner. The game's just full of touches like that, really good ideas that reinforce each other.
Why I fear the ocean.