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[Industry Thread] I shall call him...Mini Wii.

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  • skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    So it appears Kids R Us: Gamestop edition is a thing now. At least, if you live out in bumblef-
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    Next up, Gamestop: Senior Citizen edition.

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Grapevine is a big, wealthy, growing Dallas suburb. That mall is huge. Located across the street from a Bass Pro Shop, which hosts an enormous Fried Turkey contest in its parking lot every Thanksgiving morning. You need to see it to believe it.

  • ManetherenWolfManetherenWolf Registered User regular
    Its also where Gamestop's home offices are located I believe.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    So, what do we make of this
    Xbox World has used its penultimate issue to publish an 8-page feature containing "everything we know" about Microsoft's next-gen console plans.

    The mag has good form when it comes to next-gen Xbox leaks, having revealed in January Microsoft's plans for augmented reality, directional sound, and a four-player, finger-tracking Kinect, all of which were later confirmed in the now infamous leaked planning document in June.

    Editor in chief Dan Dawkins told CVG: "Xbox World has been at the cutting edge of Durango coverage for over 12 months. Unless something really dramatic changes, everything we reveal in our penultimate issue will be revealed long before E3 in June."

    According to the mag's final 'exposé', the next-gen Xbox - which it speculates is likely to be called simply "Xbox" - will introduce Kinect 2.0, use Blu-ray discs and feature directional audio, a TV output AND input, 'innovative controller' and - at a later stage of the console's life - AR glasses.

    Current codename 'Durango' dev kits boast a CPU with "four hardware cores, each divided into four logical cores" and an impressive 8GB of RAM, XBW reports.

    Xbox World has used the Microsoft leaks and industry sources to come up with a 3D mock-up of what it expects the next-gen Xbox to look like.

    "We built ours with the same glossy face and patented VapourMG magnesium alloy Microsoft uses for its Surface tablet, and modelled the silver band after its new 'Wedge' touch keyboard and flexible Arc Touch mouse," it writes. "The future will be black, sharp and curved."

    Source

    Sounds a little too great, to be honest.

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Didn't the Atari Jaguar have "four hardware cores", and look how that turned out?

    Or is that just roundabout talk for a quad-core processor?

  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Didn't the Atari Jaguar have "four hardware cores", and look how that turned out?

    Or is that just roundabout talk for a quad-core processor?

    it just means four core cpu. which is the same as what the ps4 should have, and what the WiiU has now. one more core then the 360 has.

    the 4 hardware cores, 4 logical cores, is just talking about 16 total threads on the cpu, same as WiiU.

    Back in the Jaguar era, programming for multiple threads was hard, and rarely done outside of super computer like applications.Now it's completely common.

    Foomy on
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  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    A quad-core CPU with four-way SMT (think HyperThreading), supposedly.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Sounds a little too great, to be honest.

    What, as in too good to be true?

    We already knew or suspected Kinect 2.0 and BluRay. AR sounds like something more possible down the road. Constant bitching about the CPU power and RAM size make those logical. And it's been MS' goal from the beginning to turn the thing into a set-top box.

    Frankly, after SONY and MS broke the $300 barrier, I can't imagine that this isn't what the next Xbox looks like. It'll cost $600, everybody will bitch, and it will indeed be intended for the next ten years.

    Sounds reasonable to me.

    Nightslyr
  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    I'm so, so tired of hearing about specs. Software is all that matters.

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    MS will probably offer it either exclusively with a monthly contract or at a ridiculous price without one.

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  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    I'm so, so tired of hearing about specs. Software is all that matters.

    I think around these parts we have a pretty level head when it comes to a balance between specs and software.

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    plufim wrote: »
    I'm so, so tired of hearing about specs. Software is all that matters.

    I think around these parts we have a pretty level head when it comes to a balance between specs and software.

    Except for those people who think that forcing devs to build on shoestrings results in better games. They're crazy

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    plufim wrote: »
    I'm so, so tired of hearing about specs. Software is all that matters.

    I think around these parts we have a pretty level head when it comes to a balance between specs and software.

    Except for those people who think that forcing devs to build on shoestrings results in better games. They're crazy

    Getting publishers frothing at the mouth over how many polygons something can push is hardly beneficial either. I'd definitely lean more towards what the devs want for hardware, but there has to be some reason or you end up with silliness like $600 consoles.

  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    But think of our water in video games! We need the best looking possible in our games. There aren't enough demos anymore where developers go nuts talking about the water.

    It needs to feel as if your actually seeing real water that you can taste it.

    People are such drips some times.

  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    Real talk: the water in Assassin's Creed III looks amazing and I consider it a net benefit

  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    For the record, I still think crysis has the best water, half a decade later. Even compared to its sequels

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  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    It's always slightly frustrating when you're arguing for stronger system hardware and the only benefit people can seem to think of is graphical.

    TommattBlendtecNightslyrCommodore75
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    It's always slightly frustrating when you're arguing for stronger system hardware and the only benefit people can seem to think of is graphical.

    Well, is framerate and draw distance still graphical? Because that's what I think about. See also: player count.

  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Really, RAM matters. Level design, AI, player count, and yes: textures, draw distance and other graphical stuff too

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  • TommattTommatt Registered User regular
    How much ram is the wiiu going to have again? 8GB seems like a lot for a console. Unless they're going back to the original Xbox design where it was basically a PC.

  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    The best water is still waverace because it actually had an impact on the game.

    WiiU has 2GB, one for games and one for OS.

    plufim on
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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Its also where Gamestop's home offices are located I believe.

    It is.
    Are they opening more stores or are they finally finding a logical use for all the Babbages they bought?

    Huh? Babbage's and Software Etc. rebranded to Gamestop, and they bought Funcoland and EB later.

    Shadowfire on
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  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    I'm so, so tired of hearing about specs. Software is all that matters.

    Better specs = More potential for fully realised virtual worlds. Nuthin' wrong with getting excited over the specs, and we've got no next gen software info to pore over, so have at it, I say.

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  • BlendtecBlendtec Registered User regular
    It's just better in general for the consoles to be similar spec wise so it's easier for devs to port things one way or anything. Unless for instance you prefer the Wii CoDs over the versions everyone else got. Better hardware tends to mean better software now.

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    But it's more than that.

    The PS3 had some absolutely insane specs at launch. 7 Cell processors, RAM, Blu-Ray... all sorts of other bells and whistles. And then word got out that the architecture was so alien that it was very difficult to program for or port to. People did it anyways because, hey, it was the PS3... but then came the second shoe of the price, being 100-200 more than the 1 year old competitor and a TON more than the launch month competitor. It took years before the PS3's momentum recovered from that, a hit Sony is still reeling from.

    I keep hearing two narratives on the future platforms: One is that they'll be comparable to modern PCs right now, as opposed to being the equivalent of PCs in 4-5 years. The second are rumors of uber-machines, capable of making my grandmother thirteen different varieties of tea. The truth likely lies somewhere in between, but the fact is that the next machines are going to be expensive... and not only is the global economy still recovering, but people are balking at the Wii U being $300.

    And yes, I do recognize that the people balking at the Wii U's price is because they consider it the equivalent of 7 year old tech, but in reality it's $200 + a $100 tablet, so it's actually much more in line with the current gen than it looks.

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  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    The standard multicore CPU has 2-16 cores that all have the same spec, with automatically managed cache and RAM. Programmers in general suck at multithreaded programming on these.

    The Cell processor has 1 main processor that acts as a controller (the PPE) and 6 other processors that do the heavy lifting (the SPEs). The SPEs have shit for cache, and their main memory has to be managed by the controller. The programmers have to optimize memory by manually devising schemes to load the memory for an operation just in time to the SPE. This is much, much harder than programming for a standard multicore CPU.

    Hopefully Microsoft doesn't try to make a CPU that programmers suck more at than regular PC CPUs.

    Jephery on
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  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    Given that they will want to continue to leverage their existing tools, I doubt they will come up with anything too radically different.

    Nightslyr
  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    Not even Sony is going for something crazy for the next gen, there rumored plan from leaked dev kit specs is an AMD A10 variant, so thats just good ol x86 which every game dev knows how to program for.
    And Microsoft is suposed to be using some sort of IBM PowerPC, so just an uprgade from whats in the 360 now.

    So it should be easier for the next gen as far as programming goes.

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  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    A lot of power in a console is good as it opens up avenues for devs to do new amazing things with games. Obviously having more RAM/computing power is better. But there is a cost associated with that, and not just price.

    Too much power poured into the expensive hardware and R&D costs can be really bad for the industry. First parties take too many losses, prices are too high to achieve a large enough installed base, and devs/publishers struggle to make money on a lagging installed base.

    Too often I see people talk about how great their powerful piece of hardware is. Powerful hardware is nice but I'd prefer not to have to pay an exorbitant amount for it and hope that enough other people do for it to end up with sufficient support. I'd rather see a reasonably-priced console achieve a high installed base so that it keeps the first party in good business (and in competition with its few competitors) and so that it keeps developers making and publishing games for it, and succeeding.

    But hey "it's great hardware!" does not make up for the damage that overly expensive "powerful" hardware can potentially cause.

    Best strategy is to have the most powerful hardware you can get at a reasonable cost and sell it for as low a price as possible to get it into as many hands as possible, and make the architecture easy to develop for. That's what I consider common sense.

    NightslyrJaysonFour
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    Yeah. Wasn't MS mantra at the start of this gen making things easier for the developers.

    Not sure if they were just saying that because of the PS3 but I don't know why they would stray from that when it showed itself to be pretty successful.

  • V FactionV Faction Registered User regular
    I don't doubt that things will be easier in some cases. So MS wasn't/isn't lying (especially if you look at how they were able to bring in a wealth of PC-centric developers on to the console space). But I see it the same as loosening a notch on your belt. Sooner or later, the developers are going to grow to fill up that allotted space. Those who can workout and make their bellies fit snuggly inside the belt are the ones that survive.

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  • Descendant XDescendant X Skyrim is my god now. Outpost 31Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Sony and Microsoft could put out 16-core systems with 24 gigs of RAM and 1 terabyte hard drives, but none of it is worth a tinker's cuss if they don't ensure that the system is manufactured in such a way as to avoid the clusterfuck that was the RROD and YLOD. The PS3 was supposed to be the safe bet for console quality this gen, and I still got burned twice, which is nothing compared to some of the people who sent their 360 back in four or five times. Hopefully they will learn from that and ensure that the quality control is tip-top before unleashing their machines onto the public.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Are you kidding? I have an inside source at MS that says they're using hair gel instead of thermal paste.


    Corners must be cut, son.

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  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    slash000 wrote: »
    A lot of power in a console is good as it opens up avenues for devs to do new amazing things with games. Obviously having more RAM/computing power is better. But there is a cost associated with that, and not just price.

    Too much power poured into the expensive hardware and R&D costs can be really bad for the industry. First parties take too many losses, prices are too high to achieve a large enough installed base, and devs/publishers struggle to make money on a lagging installed base.

    Too often I see people talk about how great their powerful piece of hardware is. Powerful hardware is nice but I'd prefer not to have to pay an exorbitant amount for it and hope that enough other people do for it to end up with sufficient support. I'd rather see a reasonably-priced console achieve a high installed base so that it keeps the first party in good business (and in competition with its few competitors) and so that it keeps developers making and publishing games for it, and succeeding.

    But hey "it's great hardware!" does not make up for the damage that overly expensive "powerful" hardware can potentially cause.

    Best strategy is to have the most powerful hardware you can get at a reasonable cost and sell it for as low a price as possible to get it into as many hands as possible, and make the architecture easy to develop for. That's what I consider common sense.

    Doesn't this lead to two questions:

    1. How much of the cost Microsoft and Sony will eat per unit?
    2. How much of a head start one will have over the other, if any?

    I mean, in this economy, wouldn't a $600+ machine essentially be DOA? I could see $400 being doable.

    Sony's situation is more perplexing given Japan's recession, especially in the tech sector. They can't really afford another hardware flop.

  • V FactionV Faction Registered User regular
    They can't afford it, but they will live and die by it. Because we, the consumers, demand it (not necessarily you or I, although perhaps I'm speaking too broadly). More for less. Figure out the hard stuff on your own while giving us the goods.

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  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    slash000 wrote: »
    A lot of power in a console is good as it opens up avenues for devs to do new amazing things with games. Obviously having more RAM/computing power is better. But there is a cost associated with that, and not just price.

    Too much power poured into the expensive hardware and R&D costs can be really bad for the industry. First parties take too many losses, prices are too high to achieve a large enough installed base, and devs/publishers struggle to make money on a lagging installed base.

    Too often I see people talk about how great their powerful piece of hardware is. Powerful hardware is nice but I'd prefer not to have to pay an exorbitant amount for it and hope that enough other people do for it to end up with sufficient support. I'd rather see a reasonably-priced console achieve a high installed base so that it keeps the first party in good business (and in competition with its few competitors) and so that it keeps developers making and publishing games for it, and succeeding.

    But hey "it's great hardware!" does not make up for the damage that overly expensive "powerful" hardware can potentially cause.

    Best strategy is to have the most powerful hardware you can get at a reasonable cost and sell it for as low a price as possible to get it into as many hands as possible, and make the architecture easy to develop for. That's what I consider common sense.

    Well, it comes down to one of the paradoxical laws of gaming platforms.

    The more powerful the console the more expensive it is to develop games for that console. The more expensive the game the more copies of that game must be sold. The more copies that must be sold the bigger the install base has to be. The bigger the install base has to be the cheaper the the console has to sell for.

    Thus the more powerful the console the cheaper you must sell it for. (All other things being equal).

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  • vegeta_666vegeta_666 CanadaRegistered User regular
    Tattoo Artist Sues THQ Over Unlicensed Use Of Tattoo
    Tattoo artist Chris Escobedo is suing THQ over the unlicensed use of a tattoo that appears on fighter Carlos Condit in the UFC Undisputed 3. Escobedo is the owner of Elite Tattoo in Arizona, and he created the tattoo that appears on Condit's side.

    Polygon reports that the tattoo in question is an original creation by Escobedo, and THQ did not request permission for the tattoo's appearance in the game. Escobedo says he would not have offered permission had THQ reached out to him. According to Escobedo's lawyer, tattoo artists have full creative rights in regard to their work.

    So this is a thing.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    Tattoo Artist Sues THQ Over Unlicensed Use Of Tattoo
    Tattoo artist Chris Escobedo is suing THQ over the unlicensed use of a tattoo that appears on fighter Carlos Condit in the UFC Undisputed 3. Escobedo is the owner of Elite Tattoo in Arizona, and he created the tattoo that appears on Condit's side.

    Polygon reports that the tattoo in question is an original creation by Escobedo, and THQ did not request permission for the tattoo's appearance in the game. Escobedo says he would not have offered permission had THQ reached out to him. According to Escobedo's lawyer, tattoo artists have full creative rights in regard to their work.

    So this is a thing.

    Look, you only license the use of the tattoo. Getting it put on your skin is not proof of ownership.

    Commodore75Dhalphir
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    I'll be honest, I've never even given thought to how copyright would work in terms of tattoos. My guess is that it is somewhere along the lines of likeness rights. But seriously, he wouldn't have given the right to use the tattoo image? IE free publicity?

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  • skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    Tattoo Artist Sues THQ Over Unlicensed Use Of Tattoo
    Tattoo artist Chris Escobedo is suing THQ over the unlicensed use of a tattoo that appears on fighter Carlos Condit in the UFC Undisputed 3. Escobedo is the owner of Elite Tattoo in Arizona, and he created the tattoo that appears on Condit's side.

    Polygon reports that the tattoo in question is an original creation by Escobedo, and THQ did not request permission for the tattoo's appearance in the game. Escobedo says he would not have offered permission had THQ reached out to him. According to Escobedo's lawyer, tattoo artists have full creative rights in regard to their work.

    So this is a thing.

    It's like the Hangover tattoo lawsuit all over again.

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