I don't much care about the games - they look damned nice in 720p - but for HD movies, it'd really be nice to have 1080p, since I plan to get a 1080p television at some point in the future. And the built-in upscaling capability that current 360s refuse to do except through VGA sure would be nice.
The new 360 will almost certainly upscale over HDMI, since that's not prohibited by AACS. It's just component that's restricted.
HDMI is a trojan horse. You can continue to play HD content over VGA unmolested by HDCP.
The number of TVs with VGA inputs is tiny.
aren't there boxes that accept VGA inputs and output component?
Yes, but they're around $150. For that price, I may as well sell my 360 and buy the new one, especially since the converter will take a hit on video quality, and VGA is already inferior to HDMI.
And if anyone pipes up with, "But the difference is so small! Who cares?!" I will slap them with a tuna. I can tell the difference, and so I care, because I am a video snob.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I don't much care about the games - they look damned nice in 720p - but for HD movies, it'd really be nice to have 1080p, since I plan to get a 1080p television at some point in the future. And the built-in upscaling capability that current 360s refuse to do except through VGA sure would be nice.
The new 360 will almost certainly upscale over HDMI, since that's not prohibited by AACS. It's just component that's restricted.
Yes, I know. That was my point. It's a feature that would be nice to have in my current box.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
HDMI is a trojan horse. You can continue to play HD content over VGA unmolested by HDCP.
The number of TVs with VGA inputs is tiny.
aren't there boxes that accept VGA inputs and output component?
Yes, but they're around $150. For that price, I may as well sell my 360 and buy the new one, especially since the converter will take a hit on video quality, and VGA is already inferior to HDMI.
And if anyone pipes up with, "But the difference is so small! Who cares?!" I will slap them with a tuna. I can tell the difference, and so I care, because I am a video snob.
i thought there was negligible difference between VGA and HDMI? or am i think of VGA and component?
bongi on
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SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
I don't much care about the games - they look damned nice in 720p - but for HD movies, it'd really be nice to have 1080p, since I plan to get a 1080p television at some point in the future. And the built-in upscaling capability that current 360s refuse to do except through VGA sure would be nice.
The new 360 will almost certainly upscale over HDMI, since that's not prohibited by AACS. It's just component that's restricted.
Yes, I know. That was my point. It's a feature that would be nice to have in my current box.
Ah, I see what you were saying. Yeah, you're right.
Still, the difference between the 360 doing the scaling and your TV doing the scaling isn't much for most people. The 360's scaler isn't anything spectacular in that regard.
i thought there was negligible difference between VGA and HDMI? or am i think of VGA and component?
You're probably thinking of VGA vs Component. VGA is analog, and HDMI is digital, and the latter can result in a much crisper, more accurate picture. Depends on the source, of course, but on my satellite receiver, HDMI vs component is pretty striking. Even my wife noticed it.
The biggest draw of HDMI, though, is the 1080p out, that you can only get through VGA for a tiny minority of TVs. When I'm buying a new TV, I'd rather be able to focus more on picture quality, number of inputs, general fit and finish, and so on, rather than whether or not the TV has VGA.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Still, the difference between the 360 doing the scaling and your TV doing the scaling isn't much for most people. The 360's scaler isn't anything spectacular in that regard.
Really? My old Samsung had a damned good scaler in it, and the difference was pretty big.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Still, the difference between the 360 doing the scaling and your TV doing the scaling isn't much for most people. The 360's scaler isn't anything spectacular in that regard.
Really? My old Samsung had a damned good scaler in it, and the difference was pretty big.
Your the first person I've seen say so. How big was the Samsung?
As will all things, trust your own eyes, so if it's worth it to you then great, I'm just surprised you saw that much of a difference. I tried a VGA cable with the 360 jsut to compare it to the DCDi upscaling of the Oppo 971 and the Oppo just blew it away. The scaler in the display (mits HC3000) was about as good as the 360, and it's not considered a great one.
Wait... people think they need 1080p out for HD movies?
back up the truck folks... 1080p and 1080i for 24fps movie content looks identical.
If you want the most out of HD-DVD or Blu Ray... you've GOT it with 1080i component...
This is true in theory, except some TVs don't handle the 3:2 pulldown with 1080i correctly. Some of the Westinghouse 1080p TVs are apparently pretty egregious in this regard, and sending them a 1080p/30 signal over VGA makes a big difference vs 1080i/60 even when it shouldn't. This isn't something I've seen personally, though.
Edit: Also, sending 1080p/60 for games could make a difference, even this issue notwithstanding. But I really doubt it will, as almost everything is rendered at 720 internally anyway. VT3 is apparently 1080p native but I haven't heard of any visual quality difference on 1080p TVs.
Wait... people think they need 1080p out for HD movies?
back up the truck folks... 1080p and 1080i for 24fps movie content looks identical.
If you want the most out of HD-DVD or Blu Ray... you've GOT it with 1080i component...
So... an image at 1366x768 and an image at 1920x1080 look the same?
I've seen Casino Royal at 1080i. It's gorgeous.
I've seen it at 1080p - with the wider colour gamut provided by HDMI 1.3. It's sharper, the colours are richer and it's a better viewing experience.
Wait... people think they need 1080p out for HD movies?
back up the truck folks... 1080p and 1080i for 24fps movie content looks identical.
If you want the most out of HD-DVD or Blu Ray... you've GOT it with 1080i component...
This is true in theory, except some TVs don't handle the 3:2 pulldown with 1080i correctly. Some of the Westinghouse 1080p TVs are apparently pretty egregious in this regard, and sending them a 1080p/30 signal over VGA makes a big difference vs 1080i/60 even when it shouldn't. This isn't something I've seen personally, though.
Edit: Also, sending 1080p/60 for games could make a difference, even this issue notwithstanding. But I really doubt it will, as almost everything is rendered at 720 internally anyway. VT3 is apparently 1080p native but I haven't heard of any visual quality difference on 1080p TVs.
I'd be returning a TV that did that.... the code for correctly deinterlacing that content is ancient.
Isn't Blu-Ray slaughtering HD-DVD right now, both in terms of sales and available releases?
Pretty much, yeah. I would, however, buy a HD-DVD unit if it gets some content to justify it to me. I'm not cheering on any particular team here.
Well, other than Serenity, I'm having a hard time coming up with killer HD-DVD exclusives. Does anyone know of a list?
Anything by Universal. They're HD-DVD's only big exclusive provider that I can think of. Off the top of my head, that means that when Back to the Future goes HD it'll be on HD-DVD.
Wait... people think they need 1080p out for HD movies?
back up the truck folks... 1080p and 1080i for 24fps movie content looks identical.
If you want the most out of HD-DVD or Blu Ray... you've GOT it with 1080i component...
So... an image at 1366x768 and an image at 1920x1080 look the same?
I've seen Casino Royal at 1080i. It's gorgeous.
I've seen it at 1080p - with the wider colour gamut provided by HDMI 1.3. It's sharper, the colours are richer and it's a better viewing experience.
I don't want to be rude, but you're wrong.
you and I both know that is the wrong way to look at the issue
if you can see a color difference then you'd be an exception to the rule and should maybe talk to Amir over at AVSForum for a job since you have golden eyes
Don't really like the colour, PS3 glossy looks nicer (probably only saying that because it would match my HD Sammy).
Nice to have the choice I guess, not anything I'm going to be buying though, perfectly happy with my 20Gig unit. If I were buying a 360 in the future rather than launch, I might pluck for the Elite, but the cost is pretty damned high... I'd probably go for Premium. I think the white looks better on the whole. HDMI is nice, can't say I really give a crap, since owning a 1080p TV is a long way away (the 1080p cost is insane in Europe, and all first generation products).
And since Microsoft appear happy to deny Europe all that tasty HD movie / TV download stuff, can't say I really need the extra HD space.
The price of the unit does paint the PS3 in a much better light though, especially as you get Blue Ray + Wireless in the PS3.
Still I prefer the multiple choice of the 360 setup to the forced high pricepoint of the PS3 (no 20 Gig PS3 here in England).
So, thanks for the option Microsoft, but I'm happy with my Premium.
fragglefart on
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SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
Wait... people think they need 1080p out for HD movies?
back up the truck folks... 1080p and 1080i for 24fps movie content looks identical.
If you want the most out of HD-DVD or Blu Ray... you've GOT it with 1080i component...
This is true in theory, except some TVs don't handle the 3:2 pulldown with 1080i correctly. Some of the Westinghouse 1080p TVs are apparently pretty egregious in this regard, and sending them a 1080p/30 signal over VGA makes a big difference vs 1080i/60 even when it shouldn't. This isn't something I've seen personally, though.
Edit: Also, sending 1080p/60 for games could make a difference, even this issue notwithstanding. But I really doubt it will, as almost everything is rendered at 720 internally anyway. VT3 is apparently 1080p native but I haven't heard of any visual quality difference on 1080p TVs.
I'd be returning a TV that did that.... the code for correctly deinterlacing that content is ancient.
I agree, it's a bit ridiculous, and I was pretty skeptical as well. But apparently it's a real effect on some TVs, and since I haven't checked for myself I figured it was worth mentioning.
Wait... people think they need 1080p out for HD movies?
back up the truck folks... 1080p and 1080i for 24fps movie content looks identical.
If you want the most out of HD-DVD or Blu Ray... you've GOT it with 1080i component...
So... an image at 1366x768 and an image at 1920x1080 look the same?
I've seen Casino Royal at 1080i. It's gorgeous.
I've seen it at 1080p - with the wider colour gamut provided by HDMI 1.3. It's sharper, the colours are richer and it's a better viewing experience.
I don't want to be rude, but you're wrong.
Yea, there's a difference between 1080i and 1080p. Also, is the HDMI in the Elite 1.3 or not? Just curious.
Also, for those of you who want a hearty laugh on both sides:
This is fairly retarded in all forms, but funny to laugh at.
Also, sending 1080p/60 for games could make a difference, even this issue notwithstanding. But I really doubt it will, as almost everything is rendered at 720 internally anyway. VT3 is apparently 1080p native but I haven't heard of any visual quality difference on 1080p TVs.
Ninja Gaiden Sigma says Hi. 1080p/60.
Ownage Jones on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Currently playing: Infamous, Resident Evil 5
Need to play: Shadow Complex, Uncharted 2, Ratchet and Clank: ACIT, MW2, Alpha Protocol
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SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
Wait... people think they need 1080p out for HD movies?
back up the truck folks... 1080p and 1080i for 24fps movie content looks identical.
If you want the most out of HD-DVD or Blu Ray... you've GOT it with 1080i component...
So... an image at 1366x768 and an image at 1920x1080 look the same?
I've seen Casino Royal at 1080i. It's gorgeous.
I've seen it at 1080p - with the wider colour gamut provided by HDMI 1.3. It's sharper, the colours are richer and it's a better viewing experience.
I don't want to be rude, but you're wrong.
Yea, there's a difference between 1080i and 1080p.
When the source is 1080p... there isn't
However the shoddy image processors in TVs are more widespread than I imagined:
if you can see a color difference then you'd be an exception to the rule and should maybe talk to Amir over at AVSForum for a job since you have golden eyes
Actually, we're familiar with each other. And the eyes are blue, for the record
“We don’t feel like the Wii customer and the Xbox customer are the same thing,” he said. “We think that as soon as the Wii customer turns 14 they want something else.”
John Rodman, Product Manager, Xbox - in an interview with the New York Times.
It looks like stupid execs aren't Playstation exclusive any longer either.
“We don’t feel like the Wii customer and the Xbox customer are the same thing,†he said. “We think that as soon as the Wii customer turns 14 they want something else.â€
John Rodman, Product Manager, Xbox - in an interview with the New York Times.
It looks like stupid execs aren't Playstation exclusive any longer either.
Oh great, that cocky attitude was what started Sony's demise. olol Kidtendo... -_-
Posts
aren't there boxes that accept VGA inputs and output component?
The new 360 will almost certainly upscale over HDMI, since that's not prohibited by AACS. It's just component that's restricted.
Yes, but they're around $150. For that price, I may as well sell my 360 and buy the new one, especially since the converter will take a hit on video quality, and VGA is already inferior to HDMI.
And if anyone pipes up with, "But the difference is so small! Who cares?!" I will slap them with a tuna. I can tell the difference, and so I care, because I am a video snob.
Yes, I know. That was my point. It's a feature that would be nice to have in my current box.
Is this comment directed at the idea of blu ray taking over the market or Downloadable High Def content taking over the market.
Because I don't see either happening inside a year.
i thought there was negligible difference between VGA and HDMI? or am i think of VGA and component?
Ah, I see what you were saying. Yeah, you're right.
Still, the difference between the 360 doing the scaling and your TV doing the scaling isn't much for most people. The 360's scaler isn't anything spectacular in that regard.
sidenote: M$!!!11 ROFLCOPTER
http://DocumentingLaziness.blogspot.com/
You're probably thinking of VGA vs Component. VGA is analog, and HDMI is digital, and the latter can result in a much crisper, more accurate picture. Depends on the source, of course, but on my satellite receiver, HDMI vs component is pretty striking. Even my wife noticed it.
The biggest draw of HDMI, though, is the 1080p out, that you can only get through VGA for a tiny minority of TVs. When I'm buying a new TV, I'd rather be able to focus more on picture quality, number of inputs, general fit and finish, and so on, rather than whether or not the TV has VGA.
It's more a comment on content available for HD-DVD really.
Really? My old Samsung had a damned good scaler in it, and the difference was pretty big.
Isn't Blu-Ray slaughtering HD-DVD right now, both in terms of sales and available releases?
Steam / Bus Blog / Goozex Referral
Your the first person I've seen say so. How big was the Samsung?
As will all things, trust your own eyes, so if it's worth it to you then great, I'm just surprised you saw that much of a difference. I tried a VGA cable with the 360 jsut to compare it to the DCDi upscaling of the Oppo 971 and the Oppo just blew it away. The scaler in the display (mits HC3000) was about as good as the 360, and it's not considered a great one.
Pretty much, yeah. I would, however, buy a HD-DVD unit if it gets some content to justify it to me. I'm not cheering on any particular team here.
back up the truck folks... 1080p and 1080i for 24fps movie content looks identical.
If you want the most out of HD-DVD or Blu Ray... you've GOT it with 1080i component...
This is true in theory, except some TVs don't handle the 3:2 pulldown with 1080i correctly. Some of the Westinghouse 1080p TVs are apparently pretty egregious in this regard, and sending them a 1080p/30 signal over VGA makes a big difference vs 1080i/60 even when it shouldn't. This isn't something I've seen personally, though.
Edit: Also, sending 1080p/60 for games could make a difference, even this issue notwithstanding. But I really doubt it will, as almost everything is rendered at 720 internally anyway. VT3 is apparently 1080p native but I haven't heard of any visual quality difference on 1080p TVs.
Well, other than Serenity, I'm having a hard time coming up with killer HD-DVD exclusives. Does anyone know of a list?
Steam / Bus Blog / Goozex Referral
Isn't The Prestige an HD exclusive? I LOVE that movie. But most people think it's just OK. Anyhoo...
So... an image at 1366x768 and an image at 1920x1080 look the same?
I've seen Casino Royal at 1080i. It's gorgeous.
I've seen it at 1080p - with the wider colour gamut provided by HDMI 1.3. It's sharper, the colours are richer and it's a better viewing experience.
I don't want to be rude, but you're wrong.
Anything by Universal. They're HD-DVD's only big exclusive provider that I can think of. Off the top of my head, that means that when Back to the Future goes HD it'll be on HD-DVD.
The Prestige is Blu-ray.
If you want some great looking HD-DVDs, may I suggest: The Hulk, Apollo 13, the aforementioned Serenity and V for Vendetta. Fine discs, all of them.
Well fuck. Here's hoping that Blu-Ray continues it's market dominance and they release it in a dual-format disc or something.
edit: I don't have (or plan to get in the near future) an HD-DVD player, I'm just curious.
Steam / Bus Blog / Goozex Referral
if you can see a color difference then you'd be an exception to the rule and should maybe talk to Amir over at AVSForum for a job since you have golden eyes
I wouldn't mind both formats surviving if I could ever get an affordable player that reads both of them.
Happy Feet was pretty amazing... saw that one last night
the worst I've seen yet is Fearless
Nice to have the choice I guess, not anything I'm going to be buying though, perfectly happy with my 20Gig unit. If I were buying a 360 in the future rather than launch, I might pluck for the Elite, but the cost is pretty damned high... I'd probably go for Premium. I think the white looks better on the whole. HDMI is nice, can't say I really give a crap, since owning a 1080p TV is a long way away (the 1080p cost is insane in Europe, and all first generation products).
And since Microsoft appear happy to deny Europe all that tasty HD movie / TV download stuff, can't say I really need the extra HD space.
The price of the unit does paint the PS3 in a much better light though, especially as you get Blue Ray + Wireless in the PS3.
Still I prefer the multiple choice of the 360 setup to the forced high pricepoint of the PS3 (no 20 Gig PS3 here in England).
So, thanks for the option Microsoft, but I'm happy with my Premium.
I agree, it's a bit ridiculous, and I was pretty skeptical as well. But apparently it's a real effect on some TVs, and since I haven't checked for myself I figured it was worth mentioning.
Yea, there's a difference between 1080i and 1080p. Also, is the HDMI in the Elite 1.3 or not? Just curious.
Also, for those of you who want a hearty laugh on both sides:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3158279
This is fairly retarded in all forms, but funny to laugh at.
Ninja Gaiden Sigma says Hi. 1080p/60.
Currently playing: Infamous, Resident Evil 5
Need to play: Shadow Complex, Uncharted 2, Ratchet and Clank: ACIT, MW2, Alpha Protocol
It can say hi all it wants, that doesn't mean it actually makes a discernable difference.
Heh.
You know, that is the first price comparison with no obvious bias in it, very good.
However the shoddy image processors in TVs are more widespread than I imagined:
http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/0506halfrez/
109.95 for a Bluetooth headset?
You can get a good one for $30.
I won't even go into switching the hard drive out thing when you can plug in a USB one.
Currently playing: Infamous, Resident Evil 5
Need to play: Shadow Complex, Uncharted 2, Ratchet and Clank: ACIT, MW2, Alpha Protocol
Interesting that the Westy passed, since that's the exact TV that I was told didn't work
Yea, that whole comparison thing looked like advertisement for those overly priced products and not much more.
Actually, we're familiar with each other. And the eyes are blue, for the record
No.
John Rodman, Product Manager, Xbox - in an interview with the New York Times.
It looks like stupid execs aren't Playstation exclusive any longer either.
Oh great, that cocky attitude was what started Sony's demise. olol Kidtendo... -_-