Continuity question. There seem to be at least 3 timelines in the X-men movies.
X1--X2---X3---->
Sentinel Future---->
First Class--DoFP---->
I'm not sure how the Sentinel Future follows from the X1, X2, X3 continuity.
If the sentinels were created using Mystique's genetics wouldn't that have happened before X1, since Tyrion was working on that in the 70s, and I thought X1 was set in at least the 90s?
I assumed that if they captured, tortured, and harvested genetics from Mystique they wouldn't let her go afterwards, or keep her alive for very long.
Unless the sentinel / mystique whatnot happens after X3...but that seems like a really long gap between "mystique kills Tyrion" and "someone catches mystique and uses her genetics to make robots."
Continuity question. There seem to be at least 3 timelines in the X-men movies.
X1--X2---X3---->
Sentinel Future---->
First Class--DoFP---->
I'm not sure how the Sentinel Future follows from the X1, X2, X3 continuity.
If the sentinels were created using Mystique's genetics wouldn't that have happened before X1, since Tyrion was working on that in the 70s, and I thought X1 was set in at least the 90s?
I assumed that if they captured, tortured, and harvested genetics from Mystique they wouldn't let her go afterwards, or keep her alive for very long.
Unless the sentinel / mystique whatnot happens after X3...but that seems like a really long gap between "mystique kills Tyrion" and "someone catches mystique and uses her genetics to make robots."
Mystique kind of has a thing for escaping.
Origin for Dragon Age: Inquisition Shenanigans: Inksplat776
-First Class happens
-Mystique kills Trask
-Mystique is captured
-Sentinel program is sidelined because of Trask's death? (I'm not sure on that). The US government was already against it and without their biggest advocate, I guess the sentinel program fell to the wayside; maybe Stryker and his Weapon X program became the preferred alternative.
-Mystique is experimented on, samples are taken, she escapes
-Trask industries continued to work on the sentinels for when the time comes
-X-men 1-3 happen
-The time comes with hundreds of mutants stage an assault on the Alcatraz research facility and one single mutant pretty much annihilates everything
-Magento and Professor X get word of the new sentinels, team-up and recruit Wolverine
-Dark Future happens
New Timeline
-First class happens
-Wolverine goes back into time, organizes Beast, Xavier and Magneto to go stop Mystique.
-Rather than Mystique killing Trask, a mutant brawl breaks out in at the Paris Peace Accord. The US panics and Trask lives, so he's there there to go "Yo, remember those sentinels you didn't want? Heheheh"
-Magneto subverts the sentinels, uses them to stage an attack on the White House
-Mystique saves the Presidents life, shows comparison by sparing Trask, leading him to be exposed for selling secrets to foreign powers, without enough samples form Mystique and with the Sentinel program now tainted, the dark future never comes to pass.
-Xavier, learning about events from Logan's mind, manages to avoid the catastrophe of Last Stand.
Continuity question. There seem to be at least 3 timelines in the X-men movies.
X1--X2---X3---->
Sentinel Future---->
First Class--DoFP---->
I'm not sure how the Sentinel Future follows from the X1, X2, X3 continuity.
If the sentinels were created using Mystique's genetics wouldn't that have happened before X1, since Tyrion was working on that in the 70s, and I thought X1 was set in at least the 90s?
I assumed that if they captured, tortured, and harvested genetics from Mystique they wouldn't let her go afterwards, or keep her alive for very long.
Unless the sentinel / mystique whatnot happens after X3...but that seems like a really long gap between "mystique kills Tyrion" and "someone catches mystique and uses her genetics to make robots."
Mystique kind of has a thing for escaping.
Yeah
Mystique definitely didn't die after she was captured, as Xavier mentions that Trask is the first person she kills that sends her down a path of darkness. Presumably she escapes, probably with Magneto's help. The sentinels are also actually referenced as existing in X3 (I think), but the X-Men don't see them as a credible threat.
Timeline 1: First Class -> Origins -> X1 -> X2 -> X3 -> The Wolverine -> Non-existent meta-textually implied film in which Wolverine gets his adamantium back and Xavier gets his body back, sentinels invade, and Xavier and Magneto become bros again -> DOFP
Timeline 2: First Class -> DOFP -> Happy future where everyone is cool
This movie now makes Last Stand more tolerable to me, because now it's the beginning of the Dark Future that will eventually be eliminated, rather than a shitty movie that ruined future films forever.
Like, if I was doing a marathon of these films now, I'd probably watch it.
Origins can go fuck itself though.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I was confused as to the significance of it being mystique who takes wolverine rather than the actual guy... does this mean he isn't taken and experimented on?
I wasn't super blown away but I enjoyed the movie well enough. which honestly considering the last one I saw was x3 I am happy to be able to say this.
We have no idea really. Everything that happened over that fifty years is an unknown for us now.
that's fair. actually pretty cool, just making sure I wasn't nuts. thanks quid!
This movie now makes Last Stand more tolerable to me, because now it's the beginning of the Dark Future that will eventually be eliminated, rather than a shitty movie that ruined future films forever.
Like, if I was doing a marathon of these films now, I'd probably watch it.
Origins can go fuck itself though.
Since the most immediate consequence of the end of DOFP is that
Mystique appears to prevent Origins from happening
I'd like to imagine that the entire events of DOFP was the universe conspiring to correct the horrible abberation that was that film. Like the quantum stream of time was trying to give it the middle finger.
Also, I said this earlier in the thread but I'm still tickled by the fact that Wolverine was totally useless the entire movie.
He's still critical to the plot, but in every single fight scene he either gets totally upstaged (Quicksilver), is completely ineffective (Sentinels), or gets straight up wrecked (Magneto).
It was refreshing after nearly every other movie in the series being "Logan saves the day".
Also, I said this earlier in the thread but I'm still tickled by the fact that Wolverine was totally useless the entire movie.
He's still critical to the plot, but in every single fight scene he either gets totally upstaged (Quicksilver), is completely ineffective (Sentinels), or gets straight up wrecked (Magneto).
It was refreshing after nearly every other movie in the series being "Logan saves the day".
As it should be. Healing factor and claws are cool, but he's basically up against gods.
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Also, I said this earlier in the thread but I'm still tickled by the fact that Wolverine was totally useless the entire movie.
He's still critical to the plot, but in every single fight scene he either gets totally upstaged (Quicksilver), is completely ineffective (Sentinels), or gets straight up wrecked (Magneto).
It was refreshing after nearly every other movie in the series being "Logan saves the day".
As it should be. Healing factor and claws are cool, but he's basically up against gods.
Yea. Like Wolverine "Classic" would at least injure a Sentinel.
Bone Claw Wolverine bounces off without scratching the paint job.
Wolverine's powers basically make him a thorn (heh) in the side of whoever he dislikes.
He's an extremely unsubtle person with powers that demand subtlety. He's arguably just as strong as Magneto or Xavier he just doesn't really think long term.
Also, I said this earlier in the thread but I'm still tickled by the fact that Wolverine was totally useless the entire movie.
He's still critical to the plot, but in every single fight scene he either gets totally upstaged (Quicksilver), is completely ineffective (Sentinels), or gets straight up wrecked (Magneto).
It was refreshing after nearly every other movie in the series being "Logan saves the day".
What I like about the X-men movies is that
Wolvie is useless against Magneto. As he should be.
Wolverine if he was smart would be more like Vandal Savage from DC. A man whose plans can be centuries in the making. He is immortal and understands he has all the time in the world. If one plot fails another is there to replace it.
But a key aspect of Wolverine and Sabertooth is their powers not only are regeneration but that of feral beast. Heightened sense of smell and hearing. Increased strength with Sabertooth. And the aggression and hunters instincts of the beasts they are named after. They are violent killing machines. Built mentally and physically to be hunters. They think short term because they are wired that way. Nothing can stop them from stabbing, grabbing and biting their prey.
Which is useless against certain opponents like Magneto or Xavier or even Sinister and Apocalypse. Sabertooth and Wolverine are gods of the hunt. The others are more like gods of a much greater aspect of the world. Mind, magnetism, our very being or well time.
I thought it did something nearly impossible to do which act as a payoff for essentially the entire franchise, and although the stakes were as high as possible, most of that payoff came in the form of character interaction. In fact, I have very few, if any, real criticisms. Even quicksilver turned out to be awesome.
And it's already been mentioned, but I loved how Wolverine didn't save the day with his badassery. In fact, he was pretty useless in most of the physical confrontations. In the end, Magneto basically killed him, and we're left with a climax centering on the conflicting ideologies of Charles and Eric, with Mystique caught in the middle, which is exactly how it should've been. I loved about a million other things about it, but I don't feel like going into like 10 paragraphs here....
In fact, my only concern is where the franchise goes from here. I know this is impossible, but I would love it if this were the last X-men film for long time. It felt like the perfect wrap-up to the entire franchise. I don't even know that I want to see Apocalypse, because I can't see it ending in anyway more fitting than this. I realize that Fox must continue to crank these out though, so that's pie-in-the-sky thinking.
It's scenes like his big one that make me realize how hard it must be to write compelling stories for speedsters. They can do nearly anything and make it look easy. I loved that this movie dealt with his game breaking powers by pretty much saying "Okay, we're done with you. Thanks for helping!" Because if he came along to Paris, the movie would have been over less in less than an hour.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I did have a funny realization once Wolverine was thrown into the water though - them keeping him in the past was totally irrelevant. Things were going to shake out however they were going to from that point on and they were doing nothing. So that point in the movie was sort of weird to think about, as what was happening was what will have happened, but the other things that happened had happened in the future that was going to not have happened.
I did have a funny realization once Wolverine was thrown into the water though - them keeping him in the past was totally irrelevant. Things were going to shake out however they were going to from that point on and they were doing nothing. So that point in the movie was sort of weird to think about, as what was happening was what will have happened, but the other things that happened had happened in the future that was going to not have happened.
Or something.
He was unneeded for most of the last sequence. Even with the Sentinel thing if he weren't there it should have resolved pretty much the same.
I suppose keeping him there meant he didn't go back to his past mind and just start randomly shanking people. That would have been super awkward.
I did have a funny realization once Wolverine was thrown into the water though - them keeping him in the past was totally irrelevant. Things were going to shake out however they were going to from that point on and they were doing nothing. So that point in the movie was sort of weird to think about, as what was happening was what will have happened, but the other things that happened had happened in the future that was going to not have happened.
Or something.
He was unneeded for most of the last sequence. Even with the Sentinel thing if he weren't there it should have resolved pretty much the same.
I suppose keeping him there meant he didn't go back to his past mind and just start randomly shanking people. That would have been super awkward.
Yeah, I mostly picked that point as when watching the movie, that is the part where clearly he is doing nothing anymore. At least he arguably influenced tiny details that may have mattered later immediately prior to that.
It was just kind of funny, because I was in the future mindset, so at that point I felt like what was going on in the past was irrelevant. I guess mentally I treated it as a long flashback.
Also once I started on that weird time sentence I couldn't not post it.
I agree with someone somewhere who said the movie doesn't really have a villain. I am not even sure Trask is a villain. It's a war where everyone is trying to protect their side.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
At some point, the old literary definitions of protagonist (one who moves the story along) and antagonist (entity that opposes the protagonist's progress) are what you need to look at.
Wolverine is the protagonist, even if it's not his story.
The antagonist switches up a bit, but the ultimate antagonist is definitely Magneto, who in the climax is the embodiment and cause of everything Wolverine's been trying to undo the entire movie.
I agree with someone somewhere who said the movie doesn't really have a villain. I am not even sure Trask is a villain. It's a war where everyone is trying to protect their side.
Yeah, it's been brought up as a complaint, but I really liked that the conflict was as such that there wasn't just some bad guy to kill for the good guys to win.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Wow. Unexpectedly good. It even retroactively makes X3 a better film. Unbelievable.
And I agree that I don't need any more X-Men movies after this. This was perfect.
I guess we're still getting Gambit & Wolverine v. Apocalypse, but whatever. I'm good. There's no good Gambit movie if it doesn't have Rogue. It's science.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
I agree with someone somewhere who said the movie doesn't really have a villain. I am not even sure Trask is a villain. It's a war where everyone is trying to protect their side.
Yeah, it's been brought up as a complaint, but I really liked that the conflict was as such that there wasn't just some bad guy to kill for the good guys to win.
I think it made the climax amazing, personally. I've never been so into what was going on on a screen.
Also is Magneto officially the best comic book film villain? I sort of feel like he is (yes, even better than the Joker.)
The Joker is usually portrayed as a force of nature. That's especially true of Heath Ledger's/Christopher Nolan's Joker. They operate on an uncomfortably intimate level, but they never feel like an actual person.
Magneto is the opposite. He's a person. A powerful one. A flawed one, for sure. But you know exactly where he's coming from and what motivates him, and it's always been consistent.
His relationship with Xavier is probably the most compelling in superhero comics. There's a depth there that is so entertaining and satisfying to read/watch.
Even with Bryan Singer absent from doing press tours for X-Men: Days of Future Past, we’re still hearing news about the film. One character that fans thought was going to make an appearance was Scarlet Witch. It’s already confirmed that Quicksilver was going to be in it, and we saw an image of him with his baby sister. So if that’s not Scarlet Witch in the photo, then who is it?
According to Empire Magazine, the director confirms that the girl isn’t who we thought it was.
“Is that the Scarlet Witch? No, that’s his little sister,” Singer revealed. “I even had a line which I cut, where Quicksilver’s mother says to the little girl, ‘Go up and bug your sister,’ and the little girl says, ‘She bugs me!’ You never see the older sister, but it was to imply that there is an older sister for comic bool fans. I ended up cutting it.”
So is the little sister Polaris, the daughter of Magneto and the half-sister of both Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch? Well, if it is, it just means that Singer is once again jumbling character backgrounds. Polaris is also known for having green hair.
“Even though our Quicksilver is not a main character like in The Avengers, it’s a character there’s a lot of thought and concern about and it’s a character I’d like to explore further in the sequel.”
Well, if you wanted to see both Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, you’ll get to see them in Avengers: Age of Ultron next year.
Is Wolverine the hero or is he only the trigger? Once Charles believes him, Wolverine's essentially done other than introducing everyone to Quicksilver. Outside of the intro, he didn't really use his future knowledge to help them in any way. Couldn't they have gotten a massive army of people together to even the odds? Even in the X-men-only universe Fox has created, there would have been very powerful mutants alive at that time who could have helped like Juggernaught for one.
Is Wolverine the hero or is he only the trigger? Once Charles believes him, Wolverine's essentially done other than introducing everyone to Quicksilver. Outside of the intro, he didn't really use his future knowledge to help them in any way. Couldn't they have gotten a massive army of people together to even the odds? Even in the X-men-only universe Fox has created, there would have been very powerful mutants alive at that time who could have helped like Juggernaught for one.
It's more a matter of who they could convince to help them.
And, well, also the fact that more characters would just bloat an already rather bulky cast.
Also, regarding Wolverine at the ending:
Yeah, it's pretty much the case that Wolverine could've woken up immediately after being taken out by Magneto and everything would've been the same, but obviously the film wasn't going to do that because, well, dramatic climax. I suppose they could have done some sort of small alteration to the fight such that Wolverine needed to be there and was doing something important, but it may have detracted from the focus on the Xavier/Magneto/Mystique dynamic.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Is Wolverine the hero or is he only the trigger? Once Charles believes him, Wolverine's essentially done other than introducing everyone to Quicksilver. Outside of the intro, he didn't really use his future knowledge to help them in any way. Couldn't they have gotten a massive army of people together to even the odds? Even in the X-men-only universe Fox has created, there would have been very powerful mutants alive at that time who could have helped like Juggernaught for one.
It's more a matter of who they could convince to help them.
And, well, also the fact that more characters would just bloat an already rather bulky cast.
Also, regarding Wolverine at the ending:
Yeah, it's pretty much the case that Wolverine could've woken up immediately after being taken out by Magneto and everything would've been the same, but obviously the film wasn't going to do that because, well, dramatic climax. I suppose they could have done some sort of small alteration to the fight such that Wolverine needed to be there and was doing something important, but it may have detracted from the focus on the Xavier/Magneto/Mystique dynamic.
They would've had to have a reason to have him taken out, or the other fight would have had to end then. It makes total sense why it happened that way, it was just a funny observation I had.
The ending was great and I was a huge fan of the climax being Mystique choosing which path to take, rather than some huge fight. Since, really broadly, what they're fighting is an ideology, there's great suspense well after the actual combat has finished. I loved how much hinged on her dropping the gun.
How is there going to be any suspense for the next movie? We know everyone lives.
Film opens seconds after the end of DoFP with Wolverine at the school. Apocalypse bursts through the wall of the professor's office and murders everyone.
Posts
Movie holds up well after a second viewing, btw.
X1--X2---X3---->
Sentinel Future---->
First Class--DoFP---->
I'm not sure how the Sentinel Future follows from the X1, X2, X3 continuity.
I assumed that if they captured, tortured, and harvested genetics from Mystique they wouldn't let her go afterwards, or keep her alive for very long.
Unless the sentinel / mystique whatnot happens after X3...but that seems like a really long gap between "mystique kills Tyrion" and "someone catches mystique and uses her genetics to make robots."
Mystique kind of has a thing for escaping.
Original Timeline
-Mystique kills Trask
-Mystique is captured
-Sentinel program is sidelined because of Trask's death? (I'm not sure on that). The US government was already against it and without their biggest advocate, I guess the sentinel program fell to the wayside; maybe Stryker and his Weapon X program became the preferred alternative.
-Mystique is experimented on, samples are taken, she escapes
-Trask industries continued to work on the sentinels for when the time comes
-X-men 1-3 happen
-The time comes with hundreds of mutants stage an assault on the Alcatraz research facility and one single mutant pretty much annihilates everything
-Magento and Professor X get word of the new sentinels, team-up and recruit Wolverine
-Dark Future happens
New Timeline
-Wolverine goes back into time, organizes Beast, Xavier and Magneto to go stop Mystique.
-Rather than Mystique killing Trask, a mutant brawl breaks out in at the Paris Peace Accord. The US panics and Trask lives, so he's there there to go "Yo, remember those sentinels you didn't want? Heheheh"
-Magneto subverts the sentinels, uses them to stage an attack on the White House
-Mystique saves the Presidents life, shows comparison by sparing Trask, leading him to be exposed for selling secrets to foreign powers, without enough samples form Mystique and with the Sentinel program now tainted, the dark future never comes to pass.
-Xavier, learning about events from Logan's mind, manages to avoid the catastrophe of Last Stand.
Yeah
Timeline 1: First Class -> Origins -> X1 -> X2 -> X3 -> The Wolverine -> Non-existent meta-textually implied film in which Wolverine gets his adamantium back and Xavier gets his body back, sentinels invade, and Xavier and Magneto become bros again -> DOFP
Timeline 2: First Class -> DOFP -> Happy future where everyone is cool
This movie now makes Last Stand more tolerable to me, because now it's the beginning of the Dark Future that will eventually be eliminated, rather than a shitty movie that ruined future films forever.
Like, if I was doing a marathon of these films now, I'd probably watch it.
Origins can go fuck itself though.
that's fair. actually pretty cool, just making sure I wasn't nuts. thanks quid!
Since the most immediate consequence of the end of DOFP is that
I'd like to imagine that the entire events of DOFP was the universe conspiring to correct the horrible abberation that was that film. Like the quantum stream of time was trying to give it the middle finger.
I'd buy that for a dollar!
It was refreshing after nearly every other movie in the series being "Logan saves the day".
As it should be. Healing factor and claws are cool, but he's basically up against gods.
Nintendo Network ID - PirateLuigi 3DS: 3136-6586-7691
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Yea. Like Wolverine "Classic" would at least injure a Sentinel.
He's an extremely unsubtle person with powers that demand subtlety. He's arguably just as strong as Magneto or Xavier he just doesn't really think long term.
What I like about the X-men movies is that
But a key aspect of Wolverine and Sabertooth is their powers not only are regeneration but that of feral beast. Heightened sense of smell and hearing. Increased strength with Sabertooth. And the aggression and hunters instincts of the beasts they are named after. They are violent killing machines. Built mentally and physically to be hunters. They think short term because they are wired that way. Nothing can stop them from stabbing, grabbing and biting their prey.
Which is useless against certain opponents like Magneto or Xavier or even Sinister and Apocalypse. Sabertooth and Wolverine are gods of the hunt. The others are more like gods of a much greater aspect of the world. Mind, magnetism, our very being or well time.
And it's already been mentioned, but I loved how Wolverine didn't save the day with his badassery. In fact, he was pretty useless in most of the physical confrontations. In the end, Magneto basically killed him, and we're left with a climax centering on the conflicting ideologies of Charles and Eric, with Mystique caught in the middle, which is exactly how it should've been. I loved about a million other things about it, but I don't feel like going into like 10 paragraphs here....
In fact, my only concern is where the franchise goes from here. I know this is impossible, but I would love it if this were the last X-men film for long time. It felt like the perfect wrap-up to the entire franchise. I don't even know that I want to see Apocalypse, because I can't see it ending in anyway more fitting than this. I realize that Fox must continue to crank these out though, so that's pie-in-the-sky thinking.
Nintendo Network ID - PirateLuigi 3DS: 3136-6586-7691
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Or something.
I suppose keeping him there meant he didn't go back to his past mind and just start randomly shanking people. That would have been super awkward.
It was just kind of funny, because I was in the future mindset, so at that point I felt like what was going on in the past was irrelevant. I guess mentally I treated it as a long flashback.
Also once I started on that weird time sentence I couldn't not post it.
The antagonist switches up a bit, but the ultimate antagonist is definitely Magneto, who in the climax is the embodiment and cause of everything Wolverine's been trying to undo the entire movie.
Yeah, it's been brought up as a complaint, but I really liked that the conflict was as such that there wasn't just some bad guy to kill for the good guys to win.
And I agree that I don't need any more X-Men movies after this. This was perfect.
I guess we're still getting Gambit & Wolverine v. Apocalypse, but whatever. I'm good. There's no good Gambit movie if it doesn't have Rogue. It's science.
I think it made the climax amazing, personally. I've never been so into what was going on on a screen.
The Joker is usually portrayed as a force of nature. That's especially true of Heath Ledger's/Christopher Nolan's Joker. They operate on an uncomfortably intimate level, but they never feel like an actual person.
Magneto is the opposite. He's a person. A powerful one. A flawed one, for sure. But you know exactly where he's coming from and what motivates him, and it's always been consistent.
His relationship with Xavier is probably the most compelling in superhero comics. There's a depth there that is so entertaining and satisfying to read/watch.
You're right.
http://nerdreactor.com/2014/04/28/say-goodbye-to-scarlet-witch-in-x-men-days-of-future-past/
It's more a matter of who they could convince to help them.
And, well, also the fact that more characters would just bloat an already rather bulky cast.
Also, regarding Wolverine at the ending:
The ending was great and I was a huge fan of the climax being Mystique choosing which path to take, rather than some huge fight. Since, really broadly, what they're fighting is an ideology, there's great suspense well after the actual combat has finished. I loved how much hinged on her dropping the gun.
Scott got shafted in the movies. I'd like to see him get his due but the next movie is about the young generation facing
With an exception everybody lived in the previous movies. First Class spoiler
Film opens seconds after the end of DoFP with Wolverine at the school. Apocalypse bursts through the wall of the professor's office and murders everyone.
I'm pretty ok with the movies focusing on the younger generation mostly because I can do without ever having to see Halle Berry as Storm ever again.