I recall them saying a few months back that they plan to recast the main mutant with the next movie. But I think that has more to do with the intention that Apocalypse is supposed to take place in the 80's, so everybody is going to have to be teenagers.
She really is the worst. Where's the African goddess? Where's the wisdom and fire and unexpected mischievousness (see: her run with Gambit, which I wish the comics would remember)? Storm can be so much more interesting.
Same with Rogue. There's always a sadness with her, but there's also stubbornness and, again, fire. When she's not abloo blooing about not being able to touch the people she loves, she's kicking ass.
Cyclops and Iceman are also pretty bad. They went with the preppy Boy Scout, Xavier fanboy rendition that's not very interesting instead of the longer run of him as team leader in both X-Factor and when he rejoined the X-Men version. A mature field leader clashing with loner Wolverine would be interesting. There was a little of that in the first movie, but Scott didn't seem experienced enough for his opinion to carry a lot of weight.
Movie Bobby is such a disappointment. He's supposed to be the goofball, the X-Man who shows off and makes quips. He's an Omega Level mutant (super powerful like Xavier and Magneto), but doesn't ever reach his potential because he doesn't care to refine his powers unless it's necessary (likely due to not wanting the Spiderman blend of power and responsibility).
Out of all of them I'd love to see an Iceman and Storm reboot.
People need to let go of their expectations when something is translated from one form to another. Especially page to film.
Douglass Adams was best at this, he rewrote all of his shit for each medium. Completely changed character around. It didn't matter...just made it for for the medium.
People need to let go of their expectations when something is translated from one form to another. Especially page to film.
Douglass Adams was best at this, he rewrote all of his shit for each medium. Completely changed character around. It didn't matter...just made it for for the medium.
Which made me really confused when people were complaining that the movie was nothing like the book. I was just sitting there going "...well no shit, and the book is nothing like the radio show, that's intentional."
That said, regardless of what you expect out of the translation from comic to movie, the original X-Men movies had a lot of bad casting with just a couple people like Hugh Jackman carrying the entire franchise on their backs.
-First Class happens
-Mystique kills Trask
-Mystique is captured
-Sentinel program is sidelined because of Trask's death? (I'm not sure on that). The US government was already against it and without their biggest advocate, I guess the sentinel program fell to the wayside; maybe Stryker and his Weapon X program became the preferred alternative.
-Mystique is experimented on, samples are taken, she escapes
-Trask industries continued to work on the sentinels for when the time comes
-X-men 1-3 happen
-The time comes with hundreds of mutants stage an assault on the Alcatraz research facility and one single mutant pretty much annihilates everything
-Magento and Professor X get word of the new sentinels, team-up and recruit Wolverine
-Dark Future happens
New Timeline
-First class happens
-Wolverine goes back into time, organizes Beast, Xavier and Magneto to go stop Mystique.
-Rather than Mystique killing Trask, a mutant brawl breaks out in at the Paris Peace Accord. The US panics and Trask lives, so he's there there to go "Yo, remember those sentinels you didn't want? Heheheh"
-Magneto subverts the sentinels, uses them to stage an attack on the White House
-Mystique saves the Presidents life, shows comparison by sparing Trask, leading him to be exposed for selling secrets to foreign powers, without enough samples form Mystique and with the Sentinel program now tainted, the dark future never comes to pass.
-Xavier, learning about events from Logan's mind, manages to avoid the catastrophe of Last Stand.
I can accept this.
Something I realized this morning, and really like.
At the end when Logan talks to Professor X, and Professor X pauses for a moment before saying, "Welcome back." That pause was Professor X reading Logan's mind, and learning about all the time-travel / alternate dimension shit that happened.
That was really, really well done. In the theater I thought, "Why did Stewart flub that line?" But he was acting.
She really is the worst. Where's the African goddess? Where's the wisdom and fire and unexpected mischievousness (see: her run with Gambit, which I wish the comics would remember)? Storm can be so much more interesting.
Same with Rogue. There's always a sadness with her, but there's also stubbornness and, again, fire. When she's not abloo blooing about not being able to touch the people she loves, she's kicking ass.
Cyclops and Iceman are also pretty bad. They went with the preppy Boy Scout, Xavier fanboy rendition that's not very interesting instead of the longer run of him as team leader in both X-Factor and when he rejoined the X-Men version. A mature field leader clashing with loner Wolverine would be interesting. There was a little of that in the first movie, but Scott didn't seem experienced enough for his opinion to carry a lot of weight.
Movie Bobby is such a disappointment. He's supposed to be the goofball, the X-Man who shows off and makes quips. He's an Omega Level mutant (super powerful like Xavier and Magneto), but doesn't ever reach his potential because he doesn't care to refine his powers unless it's necessary (likely due to not wanting the Spiderman blend of power and responsibility).
Out of all of them I'd love to see an Iceman and Storm reboot.
Yeah, none of the X-men are ever particularly compelling in these movies. They're basically all about the interplay between Xavier and Magneto, and the other characters are just sort of extensions of that, rather than cool or interesting in themselves.
It generally works because Xavier and Magneto have a cool relationship, but there's no denying that none of the movie X-men can really stand on their own without that thread.
Yeah, none of the X-men are ever particularly compelling in these movies. They're basically all about the interplay between Xavier and Magneto, and the other characters are just sort of extensions of that, rather than cool or interesting in themselves.
-First Class happens
-Mystique kills Trask
-Mystique is captured
-Sentinel program is sidelined because of Trask's death? (I'm not sure on that). The US government was already against it and without their biggest advocate, I guess the sentinel program fell to the wayside; maybe Stryker and his Weapon X program became the preferred alternative.
-Mystique is experimented on, samples are taken, she escapes
-Trask industries continued to work on the sentinels for when the time comes
-X-men 1-3 happen
-The time comes with hundreds of mutants stage an assault on the Alcatraz research facility and one single mutant pretty much annihilates everything
-Magento and Professor X get word of the new sentinels, team-up and recruit Wolverine
-Dark Future happens
New Timeline
-First class happens
-Wolverine goes back into time, organizes Beast, Xavier and Magneto to go stop Mystique.
-Rather than Mystique killing Trask, a mutant brawl breaks out in at the Paris Peace Accord. The US panics and Trask lives, so he's there there to go "Yo, remember those sentinels you didn't want? Heheheh"
-Magneto subverts the sentinels, uses them to stage an attack on the White House
-Mystique saves the Presidents life, shows comparison by sparing Trask, leading him to be exposed for selling secrets to foreign powers, without enough samples form Mystique and with the Sentinel program now tainted, the dark future never comes to pass.
-Xavier, learning about events from Logan's mind, manages to avoid the catastrophe of Last Stand.
I can accept this.
Something I realized this morning, and really like.
At the end when Logan talks to Professor X, and Professor X pauses for a moment before saying, "Welcome back." That pause was Professor X reading Logan's mind, and learning about all the time-travel / alternate dimension shit that happened.
That was really, really well done. In the theater I thought, "Why did Stewart flub that line?" But he was acting.
DOFP spoiler
X already knew all that time travel stuff happened, because he was there. What he realized then was that the time-traveling dark future Wolverine had just returned to the "present" time and replaced the post-DOFP Wolverine.
I found that sequence to be kind of unsettling, because the Wolverine of that era was essentially destroyed when time-traveler Wolverine returned from his trip. 50 years of his life gone, just like that.
Not a fan of Mystique. The old one from the X1-3 I didn't mind, but the new one I don't. And I don't think she is good enough to be such a large part of the story.
These issues were brought up by a friend:
1. How does young Magneto get out of that prison without their help? I'd assume Mystique.
2. How does Charles go from that drug addled wreck to his future self in X1 in less than 25ish years? By the time X1 happens, he has all his shit sorted, and the X-men have been going for a little while already.
These are mine:
1. Quicksilver looked too old compared to Magneto, if they are going the father/son route, for my liking. Seemed out of place.
2. Also hated Quicksilver's hair/wig, and I don't think the actor is such a good fit. I can't see him being the arrogant/haughty/charming Pietro that I know from the comics (or the newer comics at least).
3. Not enough teamwork from the future X-men when fighting the Sentinels, apart from the Colossus/Blink combos. If they new they can't take them on 1v1, why not try and fight 2 or 3 on one? And Bishop's gun seemed to do the most damage, so why not make that a key strategy point?
4. Old Magneto looked TOO old for me. But that isn't their fault (Ian is getting up there in age).
5. Would have liked to see more of Colossus/Iceman, mainly because they are my favourite X-men (at least in the movies).
And something interesting I thought of
Apparently young Magneto mentions Angel (among others) has died since First Class (read it on a website, it didn't stand out when I watched it). Does this mean we might get an Archangel as one of Apocalypse's horsemen? And he also apparently says Emma Frost is dead... so... yeah.
The most bestest things that can come from this movie
Since Origins has been 'cut-out' of this new continuity, as far as we know, now they can make Deadpool properly! Fuck Yeah!
And Havok! I want to see more of Havok, because Havok.
Steam ID: natinator Xbox Live: Natman PRIME LoL: A1 Sauce
-First Class happens
-Mystique kills Trask
-Mystique is captured
-Sentinel program is sidelined because of Trask's death? (I'm not sure on that). The US government was already against it and without their biggest advocate, I guess the sentinel program fell to the wayside; maybe Stryker and his Weapon X program became the preferred alternative.
-Mystique is experimented on, samples are taken, she escapes
-Trask industries continued to work on the sentinels for when the time comes
-X-men 1-3 happen
-The time comes with hundreds of mutants stage an assault on the Alcatraz research facility and one single mutant pretty much annihilates everything
-Magento and Professor X get word of the new sentinels, team-up and recruit Wolverine
-Dark Future happens
New Timeline
-First class happens
-Wolverine goes back into time, organizes Beast, Xavier and Magneto to go stop Mystique.
-Rather than Mystique killing Trask, a mutant brawl breaks out in at the Paris Peace Accord. The US panics and Trask lives, so he's there there to go "Yo, remember those sentinels you didn't want? Heheheh"
-Magneto subverts the sentinels, uses them to stage an attack on the White House
-Mystique saves the Presidents life, shows comparison by sparing Trask, leading him to be exposed for selling secrets to foreign powers, without enough samples form Mystique and with the Sentinel program now tainted, the dark future never comes to pass.
-Xavier, learning about events from Logan's mind, manages to avoid the catastrophe of Last Stand.
I can accept this.
Something I realized this morning, and really like.
At the end when Logan talks to Professor X, and Professor X pauses for a moment before saying, "Welcome back." That pause was Professor X reading Logan's mind, and learning about all the time-travel / alternate dimension shit that happened.
That was really, really well done. In the theater I thought, "Why did Stewart flub that line?" But he was acting.
DOFP spoiler
X already knew all that time travel stuff happened, because he was there. What he realized then was that the time-traveling dark future Wolverine had just returned to the "present" time and replaced the post-DOFP Wolverine.
I found that sequence to be kind of unsettling, because the Wolverine of that era was essentially destroyed when time-traveler Wolverine returned from his trip. 50 years of his life gone, just like that.
I think I disagree.
At the beginning, Kitty Pryde says that only Logan will remember the time travel whatnot. I assumed that knowledge went both ways. Dark Future Professor X would not know, and James McAvoy would forget because *something*.
Otherwise, everyone giving Logan puzzled looks when he wakes up wouldn't make sense. Because you would think Professor X would have at some point told everyone, "Oh. By the way. Wolverine's consciousness traveled back in time X years from now, in another timeline, to prevent a really shitty future. So if he wakes up looking puzzled as fuck one day, don't give him a hard time."
That would have been the decent thing to do.
Edit: Especially since Kelsey Grammer Beast does the "Late Start, eh?" line. He would have been there, too. It seems like Beast would be the least likely character to be a dick about it. More likely he would poke Logan every day asking which consciousness it was, so he could science it.
Not a fan of Mystique. The old one from the X1-3 I didn't mind, but the new one I don't. And I don't think she is good enough to be such a large part of the story.
You shut your filthy mouth.
We are grateful for every second of Jennifer Lawrence's screen time. You're lucky she even opted to do the movie and let you see it. She could have kept to herself, stuck with her modeling, or only done more Hunger Games movies.
But no, she sat in a makeup chair for 8 hours each day during shooting to give us those blue tittied screen caps.
-First Class happens
-Mystique kills Trask
-Mystique is captured
-Sentinel program is sidelined because of Trask's death? (I'm not sure on that). The US government was already against it and without their biggest advocate, I guess the sentinel program fell to the wayside; maybe Stryker and his Weapon X program became the preferred alternative.
-Mystique is experimented on, samples are taken, she escapes
-Trask industries continued to work on the sentinels for when the time comes
-X-men 1-3 happen
-The time comes with hundreds of mutants stage an assault on the Alcatraz research facility and one single mutant pretty much annihilates everything
-Magento and Professor X get word of the new sentinels, team-up and recruit Wolverine
-Dark Future happens
New Timeline
-First class happens
-Wolverine goes back into time, organizes Beast, Xavier and Magneto to go stop Mystique.
-Rather than Mystique killing Trask, a mutant brawl breaks out in at the Paris Peace Accord. The US panics and Trask lives, so he's there there to go "Yo, remember those sentinels you didn't want? Heheheh"
-Magneto subverts the sentinels, uses them to stage an attack on the White House
-Mystique saves the Presidents life, shows comparison by sparing Trask, leading him to be exposed for selling secrets to foreign powers, without enough samples form Mystique and with the Sentinel program now tainted, the dark future never comes to pass.
-Xavier, learning about events from Logan's mind, manages to avoid the catastrophe of Last Stand.
I can accept this.
Something I realized this morning, and really like.
At the end when Logan talks to Professor X, and Professor X pauses for a moment before saying, "Welcome back." That pause was Professor X reading Logan's mind, and learning about all the time-travel / alternate dimension shit that happened.
That was really, really well done. In the theater I thought, "Why did Stewart flub that line?" But he was acting.
DOFP spoiler
X already knew all that time travel stuff happened, because he was there. What he realized then was that the time-traveling dark future Wolverine had just returned to the "present" time and replaced the post-DOFP Wolverine.
I found that sequence to be kind of unsettling, because the Wolverine of that era was essentially destroyed when time-traveler Wolverine returned from his trip. 50 years of his life gone, just like that.
I think I disagree.
At the beginning, Kitty Pryde says that only Logan will remember the time travel whatnot. I assumed that knowledge went both ways. Dark Future Professor X would not know, and James McAvoy would forget because *something*.
Otherwise, everyone giving Logan puzzled looks when he wakes up wouldn't make sense. Because you would think Professor X would have at some point told everyone, "Oh. By the way. Wolverine's consciousness traveled back in time X years from now, in another timeline, to prevent a really shitty future. So if he wakes up looking puzzled as fuck one day, don't give him a hard time."
That would have been the decent thing to do.
No
They didn't have a date when Logan would wake up. Up to that point they lived their lives with newlogan. So of course they are not automatically suspecting that Logan is TT Logan.
Also they don't remember because that future never happened. But everything that happened before Wolverines mind snapped back into the future is set past. So I'm sure at least X and Beast remember.
-First Class happens
-Mystique kills Trask
-Mystique is captured
-Sentinel program is sidelined because of Trask's death? (I'm not sure on that). The US government was already against it and without their biggest advocate, I guess the sentinel program fell to the wayside; maybe Stryker and his Weapon X program became the preferred alternative.
-Mystique is experimented on, samples are taken, she escapes
-Trask industries continued to work on the sentinels for when the time comes
-X-men 1-3 happen
-The time comes with hundreds of mutants stage an assault on the Alcatraz research facility and one single mutant pretty much annihilates everything
-Magento and Professor X get word of the new sentinels, team-up and recruit Wolverine
-Dark Future happens
New Timeline
-First class happens
-Wolverine goes back into time, organizes Beast, Xavier and Magneto to go stop Mystique.
-Rather than Mystique killing Trask, a mutant brawl breaks out in at the Paris Peace Accord. The US panics and Trask lives, so he's there there to go "Yo, remember those sentinels you didn't want? Heheheh"
-Magneto subverts the sentinels, uses them to stage an attack on the White House
-Mystique saves the Presidents life, shows comparison by sparing Trask, leading him to be exposed for selling secrets to foreign powers, without enough samples form Mystique and with the Sentinel program now tainted, the dark future never comes to pass.
-Xavier, learning about events from Logan's mind, manages to avoid the catastrophe of Last Stand.
I can accept this.
Something I realized this morning, and really like.
At the end when Logan talks to Professor X, and Professor X pauses for a moment before saying, "Welcome back." That pause was Professor X reading Logan's mind, and learning about all the time-travel / alternate dimension shit that happened.
That was really, really well done. In the theater I thought, "Why did Stewart flub that line?" But he was acting.
DOFP spoiler
X already knew all that time travel stuff happened, because he was there. What he realized then was that the time-traveling dark future Wolverine had just returned to the "present" time and replaced the post-DOFP Wolverine.
I found that sequence to be kind of unsettling, because the Wolverine of that era was essentially destroyed when time-traveler Wolverine returned from his trip. 50 years of his life gone, just like that.
I think I disagree.
At the beginning, Kitty Pryde says that only Logan will remember the time travel whatnot. I assumed that knowledge went both ways. Dark Future Professor X would not know, and James McAvoy would forget because *something*.
Otherwise, everyone giving Logan puzzled looks when he wakes up wouldn't make sense. Because you would think Professor X would have at some point told everyone, "Oh. By the way. Wolverine's consciousness traveled back in time X years from now, in another timeline, to prevent a really shitty future. So if he wakes up looking puzzled as fuck one day, don't give him a hard time."
That would have been the decent thing to do.
No
They didn't have a date when Logan would wake up. Up to that point they lived their lives with newlogan. So of course they are not automatically suspecting that Logan is TT Logan.
Also they don't remember because that future never happened. But everything that happened before Wolverines mind snapped back into the future is set past. So I'm sure at least X and Beast remember.
So why is Stryker the one to get Wolverine from the river? I thought that indicated Weapon-X / adamantium still happened. And even if it happened differently, wouldn't they try to rescue Logan?
Now I'm wondering if new-future Wolverine has adamantium or not.
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
I agree with _J_.
And the reason the fact that people in the past would not know is because of PARADOX prevention
-First Class happens
-Mystique kills Trask
-Mystique is captured
-Sentinel program is sidelined because of Trask's death? (I'm not sure on that). The US government was already against it and without their biggest advocate, I guess the sentinel program fell to the wayside; maybe Stryker and his Weapon X program became the preferred alternative.
-Mystique is experimented on, samples are taken, she escapes
-Trask industries continued to work on the sentinels for when the time comes
-X-men 1-3 happen
-The time comes with hundreds of mutants stage an assault on the Alcatraz research facility and one single mutant pretty much annihilates everything
-Magento and Professor X get word of the new sentinels, team-up and recruit Wolverine
-Dark Future happens
New Timeline
-First class happens
-Wolverine goes back into time, organizes Beast, Xavier and Magneto to go stop Mystique.
-Rather than Mystique killing Trask, a mutant brawl breaks out in at the Paris Peace Accord. The US panics and Trask lives, so he's there there to go "Yo, remember those sentinels you didn't want? Heheheh"
-Magneto subverts the sentinels, uses them to stage an attack on the White House
-Mystique saves the Presidents life, shows comparison by sparing Trask, leading him to be exposed for selling secrets to foreign powers, without enough samples form Mystique and with the Sentinel program now tainted, the dark future never comes to pass.
-Xavier, learning about events from Logan's mind, manages to avoid the catastrophe of Last Stand.
I can accept this.
Something I realized this morning, and really like.
At the end when Logan talks to Professor X, and Professor X pauses for a moment before saying, "Welcome back." That pause was Professor X reading Logan's mind, and learning about all the time-travel / alternate dimension shit that happened.
That was really, really well done. In the theater I thought, "Why did Stewart flub that line?" But he was acting.
DOFP spoiler
X already knew all that time travel stuff happened, because he was there. What he realized then was that the time-traveling dark future Wolverine had just returned to the "present" time and replaced the post-DOFP Wolverine.
I found that sequence to be kind of unsettling, because the Wolverine of that era was essentially destroyed when time-traveler Wolverine returned from his trip. 50 years of his life gone, just like that.
I think I disagree.
At the beginning, Kitty Pryde says that only Logan will remember the time travel whatnot. I assumed that knowledge went both ways. Dark Future Professor X would not know, and James McAvoy would forget because *something*.
Otherwise, everyone giving Logan puzzled looks when he wakes up wouldn't make sense. Because you would think Professor X would have at some point told everyone, "Oh. By the way. Wolverine's consciousness traveled back in time X years from now, in another timeline, to prevent a really shitty future. So if he wakes up looking puzzled as fuck one day, don't give him a hard time."
That would have been the decent thing to do.
No
They didn't have a date when Logan would wake up. Up to that point they lived their lives with newlogan. So of course they are not automatically suspecting that Logan is TT Logan.
Also they don't remember because that future never happened. But everything that happened before Wolverines mind snapped back into the future is set past. So I'm sure at least X and Beast remember.
So why is Stryker the one to get Wolverine from the river? I thought that indicated Weapon-X / adamantium still happened. And even if it happened differently, wouldn't they try to rescue Logan?
Now I'm wondering if new-future Wolverine has adamantium or not.
-First Class happens
-Mystique kills Trask
-Mystique is captured
-Sentinel program is sidelined because of Trask's death? (I'm not sure on that). The US government was already against it and without their biggest advocate, I guess the sentinel program fell to the wayside; maybe Stryker and his Weapon X program became the preferred alternative.
-Mystique is experimented on, samples are taken, she escapes
-Trask industries continued to work on the sentinels for when the time comes
-X-men 1-3 happen
-The time comes with hundreds of mutants stage an assault on the Alcatraz research facility and one single mutant pretty much annihilates everything
-Magento and Professor X get word of the new sentinels, team-up and recruit Wolverine
-Dark Future happens
New Timeline
-First class happens
-Wolverine goes back into time, organizes Beast, Xavier and Magneto to go stop Mystique.
-Rather than Mystique killing Trask, a mutant brawl breaks out in at the Paris Peace Accord. The US panics and Trask lives, so he's there there to go "Yo, remember those sentinels you didn't want? Heheheh"
-Magneto subverts the sentinels, uses them to stage an attack on the White House
-Mystique saves the Presidents life, shows comparison by sparing Trask, leading him to be exposed for selling secrets to foreign powers, without enough samples form Mystique and with the Sentinel program now tainted, the dark future never comes to pass.
-Xavier, learning about events from Logan's mind, manages to avoid the catastrophe of Last Stand.
I can accept this.
Something I realized this morning, and really like.
At the end when Logan talks to Professor X, and Professor X pauses for a moment before saying, "Welcome back." That pause was Professor X reading Logan's mind, and learning about all the time-travel / alternate dimension shit that happened.
That was really, really well done. In the theater I thought, "Why did Stewart flub that line?" But he was acting.
DOFP spoiler
X already knew all that time travel stuff happened, because he was there. What he realized then was that the time-traveling dark future Wolverine had just returned to the "present" time and replaced the post-DOFP Wolverine.
I found that sequence to be kind of unsettling, because the Wolverine of that era was essentially destroyed when time-traveler Wolverine returned from his trip. 50 years of his life gone, just like that.
I think I disagree.
At the beginning, Kitty Pryde says that only Logan will remember the time travel whatnot. I assumed that knowledge went both ways. Dark Future Professor X would not know, and James McAvoy would forget because *something*.
Otherwise, everyone giving Logan puzzled looks when he wakes up wouldn't make sense. Because you would think Professor X would have at some point told everyone, "Oh. By the way. Wolverine's consciousness traveled back in time X years from now, in another timeline, to prevent a really shitty future. So if he wakes up looking puzzled as fuck one day, don't give him a hard time."
That would have been the decent thing to do.
No
They didn't have a date when Logan would wake up. Up to that point they lived their lives with newlogan. So of course they are not automatically suspecting that Logan is TT Logan.
Also they don't remember because that future never happened. But everything that happened before Wolverines mind snapped back into the future is set past. So I'm sure at least X and Beast remember.
So why is Stryker the one to get Wolverine from the river? I thought that indicated Weapon-X / adamantium still happened. And even if it happened differently, wouldn't they try to rescue Logan?
Now I'm wondering if new-future Wolverine has adamantium or not.
Apparently young Magneto mentions Angel (among others) has died since First Class (read it on a website, it didn't stand out when I watched it). Does this mean we might get an Archangel as one of Apocalypse's horsemen? And he also apparently says Emma Frost is dead... so... yeah.
Actually...
When he says Angel is dead, he's referring to the Angel from First Class. The chick with the bug wings and acid spit.
One of my favorite refernces to the 90's "X-Men Fatal Attractions story line
When Charles, Erick, Hank and Logan are all flying to Paris in the plane and Logan shows his claws to Magneto and Magneto quips back "Shame they aren't metal"; Referencing when 616 Magneto had enough of Wolverines shit and ripped the Adamantium from his skeleton. Xavier mindwipes Magneto and then he becomes the 616 X-traitor, creating "Onslaught".
One of my favorite refernces to the 90's "X-Men Fatal Attractions story line
When Charles, Erick, Hank and Logan are all flying to Paris in the plane and Logan shows his claws to Magneto and Magneto quips back "Shame they aren't metal"; Referencing when 616 Magneto had enough of Wolverines shit and ripped the Adamantium from his skeleton. Xavier mindwipes Magneto and then he becomes the 616 X-traitor, creating "Onslaught".
I loved the way Fassbender delivered it too! So smug and sinister, kind of what you'd expect Magneto to say to a smartass in real life.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Just saw the movie. The movie was great, except for:
...the bit at the end.
There basically should never be a moment where "Drowning Logan" travels back into an alternate timestream and literally replaces "original Logan". That makes absolutely no sense in any scenario.
If you take it for granted that Logan's consciousness traveled back to fix everything, and that consciousness stays with him from that point forward, then there should never be a "replacement" event because it's been the same Logan from that point forward. (In other words, the time-traveler overwrote the original Logan, which is kinda OK because the time-traveler already experienced all of the original Logan's stuff anyway).
If you assume that "Drowning Logan" basically died when his timeline was destroyed (with the "original Logan's" consciousness re-inserted), then that consciousness should never come back because it no longer existed in the first place (hence the paradox of time travel).
-First Class happens
-Mystique kills Trask
-Mystique is captured
-Sentinel program is sidelined because of Trask's death? (I'm not sure on that). The US government was already against it and without their biggest advocate, I guess the sentinel program fell to the wayside; maybe Stryker and his Weapon X program became the preferred alternative.
-Mystique is experimented on, samples are taken, she escapes
-Trask industries continued to work on the sentinels for when the time comes
-X-men 1-3 happen
-The time comes with hundreds of mutants stage an assault on the Alcatraz research facility and one single mutant pretty much annihilates everything
-Magento and Professor X get word of the new sentinels, team-up and recruit Wolverine
-Dark Future happens
New Timeline
-First class happens
-Wolverine goes back into time, organizes Beast, Xavier and Magneto to go stop Mystique.
-Rather than Mystique killing Trask, a mutant brawl breaks out in at the Paris Peace Accord. The US panics and Trask lives, so he's there there to go "Yo, remember those sentinels you didn't want? Heheheh"
-Magneto subverts the sentinels, uses them to stage an attack on the White House
-Mystique saves the Presidents life, shows comparison by sparing Trask, leading him to be exposed for selling secrets to foreign powers, without enough samples form Mystique and with the Sentinel program now tainted, the dark future never comes to pass.
-Xavier, learning about events from Logan's mind, manages to avoid the catastrophe of Last Stand.
I can accept this.
Something I realized this morning, and really like.
At the end when Logan talks to Professor X, and Professor X pauses for a moment before saying, "Welcome back." That pause was Professor X reading Logan's mind, and learning about all the time-travel / alternate dimension shit that happened.
That was really, really well done. In the theater I thought, "Why did Stewart flub that line?" But he was acting.
DOFP spoiler
X already knew all that time travel stuff happened, because he was there. What he realized then was that the time-traveling dark future Wolverine had just returned to the "present" time and replaced the post-DOFP Wolverine.
I found that sequence to be kind of unsettling, because the Wolverine of that era was essentially destroyed when time-traveler Wolverine returned from his trip. 50 years of his life gone, just like that.
I think I disagree.
At the beginning, Kitty Pryde says that only Logan will remember the time travel whatnot. I assumed that knowledge went both ways. Dark Future Professor X would not know, and James McAvoy would forget because *something*.
Otherwise, everyone giving Logan puzzled looks when he wakes up wouldn't make sense. Because you would think Professor X would have at some point told everyone, "Oh. By the way. Wolverine's consciousness traveled back in time X years from now, in another timeline, to prevent a really shitty future. So if he wakes up looking puzzled as fuck one day, don't give him a hard time."
That would have been the decent thing to do.
Edit: Especially since Kelsey Grammer Beast does the "Late Start, eh?" line. He would have been there, too. It seems like Beast would be the least likely character to be a dick about it. More likely he would poke Logan every day asking which consciousness it was, so he could science it.
Saw it yesterday, liked it a lot.
As for your spoiler question:
Do Beast and Professor X have any reason to expect that Logan's mind would return to the present day/future at all? They had as far as we know no insight in the exact workings of the time travel.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Just saw the movie. The movie was great, except for:
...the bit at the end.
There basically should never be a moment where "Drowning Logan" travels back into an alternate timestream and literally replaces "original Logan". That makes absolutely no sense in any scenario.
If you take it for granted that Logan's consciousness traveled back to fix everything, and that consciousness stays with him from that point forward, then there should never be a "replacement" event because it's been the same Logan from that point forward. (In other words, the time-traveler overwrote the original Logan, which is kinda OK because the time-traveler already experienced all of the original Logan's stuff anyway).
If you assume that "Drowning Logan" basically died when his timeline was destroyed (with the "original Logan's" consciousness re-inserted), then that consciousness should never come back because it no longer existed in the first place (hence the paradox of time travel).
The way they established Kitty's time travel power (PFFFT) was that it's like editing a document. Nothing changes until you close the program. While Kitty is maintaining the connection, nothing changes, and the time traveller has to make the change in real time relevant to Kitty. Once the connection is severed (because Wolverine died) the change is made and the Future timeline is replaced with the happy one at the school. Future Wolverine's conciousness tries to go back to the Future where it belongs, but that future is now the happy one, so it goes there and overwrites the natural progression Wolverine's timeline. They'd probably sort of merge and he'd get those memories back, but hey - Wolverine has always had amnesia trubs, it's nothing new. :P
I was kinda bummed Kitty was nowhere to be seen in the Happy future, and Rogue was back with Iceman. Also they both appeared to still be students?
Just saw the movie. The movie was great, except for:
...the bit at the end.
There basically should never be a moment where "Drowning Logan" travels back into an alternate timestream and literally replaces "original Logan". That makes absolutely no sense in any scenario.
If you take it for granted that Logan's consciousness traveled back to fix everything, and that consciousness stays with him from that point forward, then there should never be a "replacement" event because it's been the same Logan from that point forward. (In other words, the time-traveler overwrote the original Logan, which is kinda OK because the time-traveler already experienced all of the original Logan's stuff anyway).
If you assume that "Drowning Logan" basically died when his timeline was destroyed (with the "original Logan's" consciousness re-inserted), then that consciousness should never come back because it no longer existed in the first place (hence the paradox of time travel).
I would agree that I was put off a little by that...
It was one of the few illogical "Movie Time Travel" bits that they included, while avoiding them for the most part. A "hard sci fi" time travel would've had Future!Logan replace his past self.
In the end, it makes no real difference to the plot, and allowed us to have that nice capstone scene of Future!Logan catching up to Present!Logan... which also sticks with one of Wolverine's themes, which is loss of memory. I agree that Prof X didn't need to read Logan's mind to know that he'd finally returned, because the rule was that Logan would be the only one to remember the Bad Future... the events that led there in the Days of Future Past still happened, though, and (unlike Wolverine), Charles would remember them keenly.
I wouldn't be too concerned about Logan losing his memories. Like a predator in the wild (let's say a honey badger), the Wolverine lives minute-to-minute and gives no fucks about what has happened in the past.
The way they established Kitty's time travel power (PFFFT) was that it's like editing a document. Nothing changes until you close the program. While Kitty is maintaining the connection, nothing changes, and the time traveller has to make the change in real time relevant to Kitty. Once the connection is severed (because Wolverine died) the change is made and the Future timeline is replaced with the happy one at the school. Future Wolverine's conciousness tries to go back to the Future where it belongs, but that future is now the happy one, so it goes there and overwrites the natural progression Wolverine's timeline. They'd probably sort of merge and he'd get those memories back, but hey - Wolverine has always had amnesia trubs, it's nothing new. :P
I was kinda bummed Kitty was nowhere to be seen in the Happy future, and Rogue was back with Iceman. Also they both appeared to still be students?
Exactly. It worked just like she said it would.
To your last point:
She was there. She was teaching a class with Colossus (probably setting them up as the good future couple)
And the reason the fact that people in the past would not know is because of PARADOX prevention
What Paradox?
They all lived the events that happened in 1973. It would seem a lot stranger to me if they suddenly forgot them all. "Hey Beast... Why did we do all that stuff yesterday?" "I dunno... Some guy maybe? I don't remember."
Just saw the movie. The movie was great, except for:
...the bit at the end.
There basically should never be a moment where "Drowning Logan" travels back into an alternate timestream and literally replaces "original Logan". That makes absolutely no sense in any scenario.
If you take it for granted that Logan's consciousness traveled back to fix everything, and that consciousness stays with him from that point forward, then there should never be a "replacement" event because it's been the same Logan from that point forward. (In other words, the time-traveler overwrote the original Logan, which is kinda OK because the time-traveler already experienced all of the original Logan's stuff anyway).
If you assume that "Drowning Logan" basically died when his timeline was destroyed (with the "original Logan's" consciousness re-inserted), then that consciousness should never come back because it no longer existed in the first place (hence the paradox of time travel).
The way they established Kitty's time travel power (PFFFT) was that it's like editing a document. Nothing changes until you close the program. While Kitty is maintaining the connection, nothing changes, and the time traveller has to make the change in real time relevant to Kitty. Once the connection is severed (because Wolverine died) the change is made and the Future timeline is replaced with the happy one at the school. Future Wolverine's conciousness tries to go back to the Future where it belongs, but that future is now the happy one, so it goes there and overwrites the natural progression Wolverine's timeline. They'd probably sort of merge and he'd get those memories back, but hey - Wolverine has always had amnesia trubs, it's nothing new. :P
I was kinda bummed Kitty was nowhere to be seen in the Happy future, and Rogue was back with Iceman. Also they both appeared to still be students?
The way they explained Kitty's powers:
Don't really clarify it. The initial events of the movie could be interpreted either way, at least from my recollection. All they really say is that Bishop goes back a few days, and warns everyone what is going to happen, which then allows them to be elsewhere instead of getting wiped out. Whether or not the Bishop who goes back remains from that point forward or eventually gets replaced by the "original" Bishop (who somehow never experienced anything during the time he was replaced) or a merge of the two occurs is never explained.
Also, the implication with the merging is that if Bishop jumps back enough times, he's going to amass the memories of several different lifetimes across various spans of time. What's to stop him from going insane in the process? Even Wolverine's "two" time streams would be enough to make this an open question.
Just saw the movie. The movie was great, except for:
...the bit at the end.
There basically should never be a moment where "Drowning Logan" travels back into an alternate timestream and literally replaces "original Logan". That makes absolutely no sense in any scenario.
If you take it for granted that Logan's consciousness traveled back to fix everything, and that consciousness stays with him from that point forward, then there should never be a "replacement" event because it's been the same Logan from that point forward. (In other words, the time-traveler overwrote the original Logan, which is kinda OK because the time-traveler already experienced all of the original Logan's stuff anyway).
If you assume that "Drowning Logan" basically died when his timeline was destroyed (with the "original Logan's" consciousness re-inserted), then that consciousness should never come back because it no longer existed in the first place (hence the paradox of time travel).
The way they established Kitty's time travel power (PFFFT) was that it's like editing a document. Nothing changes until you close the program. While Kitty is maintaining the connection, nothing changes, and the time traveller has to make the change in real time relevant to Kitty. Once the connection is severed (because Wolverine died) the change is made and the Future timeline is replaced with the happy one at the school. Future Wolverine's conciousness tries to go back to the Future where it belongs, but that future is now the happy one, so it goes there and overwrites the natural progression Wolverine's timeline. They'd probably sort of merge and he'd get those memories back, but hey - Wolverine has always had amnesia trubs, it's nothing new. :P
I was kinda bummed Kitty was nowhere to be seen in the Happy future, and Rogue was back with Iceman. Also they both appeared to still be students?
The way they explained Kitty's powers:
Don't really clarify it. The initial events of the movie could be interpreted either way, at least from my recollection. All they really say is that Bishop goes back a few days, and warns everyone what is going to happen, which then allows them to be elsewhere instead of getting wiped out. Whether or not the Bishop who goes back remains from that point forward or eventually gets replaced by the "original" Bishop (who somehow never experienced anything during the time he was replaced) or a merge of the two occurs is never explained.
Also, the implication with the merging is that if Bishop jumps back enough times, he's going to amass the memories of several different lifetimes across various spans of time. What's to stop him from going insane in the process? Even Wolverine's "two" time streams would be enough to make this an open question.
She explains it to him before he goes back.
His consciousness will jump back to 2023 after the link is broken. Once there, he'll be the only one to remember the bad future.
It's best to think of the two timelines as running parallel. Think of it like a highway... Left lane is 2023, right lane is 1973. Future Logan temporarily changed lanes and then, after the movie, swerved back into the left lane.
Not that I think it's the most elegant solution from a plot perspective, but time travel will always have something weird going on. The important thing is it was internally consistent.
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One of my favorite refernces to the 90's "X-Men Fatal Attractions story line
When Charles, Erick, Hank and Logan are all flying to Paris in the plane and Logan shows his claws to Magneto and Magneto quips back "Shame they aren't metal"; Referencing when 616 Magneto had enough of Wolverines shit and ripped the Adamantium from his skeleton. Xavier mindwipes Magneto and then he becomes the 616 X-traitor, creating "Onslaught".
I don't think it's a reference to that storyline. It's almost certainly just a reference to
the fact that he gets metal later in the movie timeline, and Magneto will be able to kick his ass all the time (as he does in the first X-Men movie at the train station).
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
If anything, I figured it was a reference to
Future Wolverine indeed having his metal claws back, after losing them in last year's spin-off-but-still-canon movie. Since we saw Magneto able to tear metal to shreds and thread it throughout the Sentinels, stands to reason he probably did the same with Wolverine's claws and recoated them.
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2. Halle Berry es muy no beuno
Dog Spanish hooray
Recast Storm. Problem solved.
Well yeah. Going with a younger generation allows for most of the crew to get recast which I'm very ok with.
Same with Rogue. There's always a sadness with her, but there's also stubbornness and, again, fire. When she's not abloo blooing about not being able to touch the people she loves, she's kicking ass.
Cyclops and Iceman are also pretty bad. They went with the preppy Boy Scout, Xavier fanboy rendition that's not very interesting instead of the longer run of him as team leader in both X-Factor and when he rejoined the X-Men version. A mature field leader clashing with loner Wolverine would be interesting. There was a little of that in the first movie, but Scott didn't seem experienced enough for his opinion to carry a lot of weight.
Movie Bobby is such a disappointment. He's supposed to be the goofball, the X-Man who shows off and makes quips. He's an Omega Level mutant (super powerful like Xavier and Magneto), but doesn't ever reach his potential because he doesn't care to refine his powers unless it's necessary (likely due to not wanting the Spiderman blend of power and responsibility).
Out of all of them I'd love to see an Iceman and Storm reboot.
Douglass Adams was best at this, he rewrote all of his shit for each medium. Completely changed character around. It didn't matter...just made it for for the medium.
Which made me really confused when people were complaining that the movie was nothing like the book. I was just sitting there going "...well no shit, and the book is nothing like the radio show, that's intentional."
That said, regardless of what you expect out of the translation from comic to movie, the original X-Men movies had a lot of bad casting with just a couple people like Hugh Jackman carrying the entire franchise on their backs.
I can accept this.
Something I realized this morning, and really like.
That was really, really well done. In the theater I thought, "Why did Stewart flub that line?" But he was acting.
Yeah, none of the X-men are ever particularly compelling in these movies. They're basically all about the interplay between Xavier and Magneto, and the other characters are just sort of extensions of that, rather than cool or interesting in themselves.
It generally works because Xavier and Magneto have a cool relationship, but there's no denying that none of the movie X-men can really stand on their own without that thread.
Wolverine.
Hugh Jackman is the franchise.
Fassbender for the the new Joker. God damn.
Yeah. He would be a fantastic Joker.
Enjoy your nightmares.
DOFP spoiler
I found that sequence to be kind of unsettling, because the Wolverine of that era was essentially destroyed when time-traveler Wolverine returned from his trip. 50 years of his life gone, just like that.
Not a fan of Mystique. The old one from the X1-3 I didn't mind, but the new one I don't. And I don't think she is good enough to be such a large part of the story.
1. How does young Magneto get out of that prison without their help? I'd assume Mystique.
2. How does Charles go from that drug addled wreck to his future self in X1 in less than 25ish years? By the time X1 happens, he has all his shit sorted, and the X-men have been going for a little while already.
1. Quicksilver looked too old compared to Magneto, if they are going the father/son route, for my liking. Seemed out of place.
2. Also hated Quicksilver's hair/wig, and I don't think the actor is such a good fit. I can't see him being the arrogant/haughty/charming Pietro that I know from the comics (or the newer comics at least).
3. Not enough teamwork from the future X-men when fighting the Sentinels, apart from the Colossus/Blink combos. If they new they can't take them on 1v1, why not try and fight 2 or 3 on one? And Bishop's gun seemed to do the most damage, so why not make that a key strategy point?
4. Old Magneto looked TOO old for me. But that isn't their fault (Ian is getting up there in age).
5. Would have liked to see more of Colossus/Iceman, mainly because they are my favourite X-men (at least in the movies).
And something interesting I thought of
The most bestest things that can come from this movie
And Havok! I want to see more of Havok, because Havok.
It also holds a 98% Fresh rating with Top Critics alone on RottenTomatoes.
I think I disagree.
Otherwise, everyone giving Logan puzzled looks when he wakes up wouldn't make sense. Because you would think Professor X would have at some point told everyone, "Oh. By the way. Wolverine's consciousness traveled back in time X years from now, in another timeline, to prevent a really shitty future. So if he wakes up looking puzzled as fuck one day, don't give him a hard time."
That would have been the decent thing to do.
Edit: Especially since Kelsey Grammer Beast does the "Late Start, eh?" line. He would have been there, too. It seems like Beast would be the least likely character to be a dick about it. More likely he would poke Logan every day asking which consciousness it was, so he could science it.
You shut your filthy mouth.
We are grateful for every second of Jennifer Lawrence's screen time. You're lucky she even opted to do the movie and let you see it. She could have kept to herself, stuck with her modeling, or only done more Hunger Games movies.
But no, she sat in a makeup chair for 8 hours each day during shooting to give us those blue tittied screen caps.
Don't you dare besmirch her gracious offering.
No
Also they don't remember because that future never happened. But everything that happened before Wolverines mind snapped back into the future is set past. So I'm sure at least X and Beast remember.
So why is Stryker the one to get Wolverine from the river? I thought that indicated Weapon-X / adamantium still happened. And even if it happened differently, wouldn't they try to rescue Logan?
Now I'm wondering if new-future Wolverine has adamantium or not.
And the reason the fact that people in the past would not know is because of PARADOX prevention
Oh, that's right.
Actually...
i giggled audibly after that line
There basically should never be a moment where "Drowning Logan" travels back into an alternate timestream and literally replaces "original Logan". That makes absolutely no sense in any scenario.
If you take it for granted that Logan's consciousness traveled back to fix everything, and that consciousness stays with him from that point forward, then there should never be a "replacement" event because it's been the same Logan from that point forward. (In other words, the time-traveler overwrote the original Logan, which is kinda OK because the time-traveler already experienced all of the original Logan's stuff anyway).
If you assume that "Drowning Logan" basically died when his timeline was destroyed (with the "original Logan's" consciousness re-inserted), then that consciousness should never come back because it no longer existed in the first place (hence the paradox of time travel).
Saw it yesterday, liked it a lot.
As for your spoiler question:
I was kinda bummed Kitty was nowhere to be seen in the Happy future, and Rogue was back with Iceman. Also they both appeared to still be students?
I would agree that I was put off a little by that...
In the end, it makes no real difference to the plot, and allowed us to have that nice capstone scene of Future!Logan catching up to Present!Logan... which also sticks with one of Wolverine's themes, which is loss of memory. I agree that Prof X didn't need to read Logan's mind to know that he'd finally returned, because the rule was that Logan would be the only one to remember the Bad Future... the events that led there in the Days of Future Past still happened, though, and (unlike Wolverine), Charles would remember them keenly.
I wouldn't be too concerned about Logan losing his memories. Like a predator in the wild (let's say a honey badger), the Wolverine lives minute-to-minute and gives no fucks about what has happened in the past.
Exactly. It worked just like she said it would.
To your last point:
What Paradox?
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The way they explained Kitty's powers:
Also, the implication with the merging is that if Bishop jumps back enough times, he's going to amass the memories of several different lifetimes across various spans of time. What's to stop him from going insane in the process? Even Wolverine's "two" time streams would be enough to make this an open question.
She explains it to him before he goes back.
It's best to think of the two timelines as running parallel. Think of it like a highway... Left lane is 2023, right lane is 1973. Future Logan temporarily changed lanes and then, after the movie, swerved back into the left lane.
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I don't think it's a reference to that storyline. It's almost certainly just a reference to
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